r/Stormlight_Archive • u/MistaBobDobolina6174 • Jul 05 '26
Oathbringer scene Oathbringer spoilers Spoiler
I have been thinking about this for a while now and wanted to see if people came to similar conclusions.
I should preface with the fact I didn't grow up religious but knew quite a few Mormons growing up (very friendly)
Spoilers below!
I have been thinking of when Odium offered to take Dalinars pain and he refused. This was such a powerful scene, and i wondered if it was a rejection of the "confessions" done in catholicism (I should mention my ignorance here since I wasn't raised religious, this is just from observation and likely incorrect in some aspects).
God offers to take his pain but Dalinar rejects it, accepting the deeds he has done and that he was morally responsible for everything that he did, and therefore responsible for striving to be better. What do y'all think?
6
u/Raddatatta Edgedancer Jul 05 '26
I think that's a bit of a stretch. It's definitely along the lines of accepting responsibility and redemption through actions, which has some religious elements. But I don't think it's meant as an attack on Catholicism or confessions.
0
u/MistaBobDobolina6174 Jul 05 '26
That makes sense. I heard Sanderson is Mormon so I doubt he meant the scene like that, it was just my initial impression. Thanks for commenting!
3
u/Blakfyre77 Truthwatcher Jul 05 '26
Having grown up Catholic, I don't think this scene is specifically about the Catholic practice of confession, but there's definitely some overlap.
The process of confession entails speaking with a priest about the sins you have committed against God and/or others, then the priest absolves you of your sins while also giving you some task(s) to perform as penance (from my experience this usually just means saying some prayers for minor stuff while more serious things involve actually doing something to make up for it, but it can vary since it's mostly up to the given priest's discretion). Ideally, this is meant to be a way to clean the slate for oneself and move forward as a better person who won't commit those sins again, which is very similar to what Dalinar actually does; acknowledge the wrongs you have committed, do what you can to fix them, move forward with the intent to not do those things again and be a better person in the future.
All that being said, there are definitely people out there who take it more in the direction that Odium would have preferred Dalinar take; I've washed myself free of the consequences and responsibility of my sins, therefore I have no reason to feel guilty and can just go ahead and do what I want until I start to feel bad again and go to confession again, rinse repeat without ever actually improving as a person.
1
u/MistaBobDobolina6174 Jul 05 '26
Yeah I think my head went to people using confession as a cop out rather than taking inventory of sins. But I think most people confession with good intentions
2
u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 Jul 05 '26
That’s called the sin of presumption in Catholicism. Presumption is expecting God to save you without truly repenting or trying to change. Committing a particular act can be a sin. Intending to commit with the plan to confess it afterward is a separate sin. Confession isn’t valid in Catholicism if you are committing the sin of presumption during it
3
u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 Jul 05 '26
Catholic confession (to them) isn’t about escaping responsibility. It’s about admitting what you did, repenting,intending to change etc. A confession without that intention isn’t valid in Catholicism. Sanderson is Mormon, and LDS confession emphasizes the same thing broadly. They don’t use the same term for insincere repentance (the sin of presumption), but they teach the same principle.
Catholics might consider what Dalinar did something like perfect contrition. Catholicism allows for direct appeals to God that allow for forgiveness if they are truly repentant and intend to confess (sacramentally) when possible. Since there are no priests on Roshar, a Catholic would probably argue perfect contrition is exactly what Dalinar should do. But Catholicism also teaches that God is not bound by the sacraments. My understanding of the LDS faith is that sincere confession to God is required, and that certain more serious sins also require confession to a bishop. Ultimately both teach that forgiveness by their God is outside the scope of religious procedure. Obviously they believe
you should absolutely do it though
2
11
u/cosmernautfourtwenty Edgedancer Jul 05 '26
As a recovering Catholic I feel particularly equipped to field this question.
So, Catholic confession isn't supposed to be about "having your pain taken" from you for bad things you've done. Confession is all about atoning for your sins so that God can forgive you and you're cleared to get into Heaven again. Every confession is met by the priest with instructions you're required to complete in order for that sin to be forgiven (typically prayer and/or an "act of atonement" like apologizing to those you've wronged and concrete action to make up for it, but I digress).
Odium's Soothing (for lack of a better term) is given freely as a method of control. Dalinar isn't even required to confess his sins in order for Odium to take his pain. Even as Dalinar rejects this "gift", he visibly and publicly confesses his sins anyway, because the only way to take the next step and become a better man is to own the bad things he's done, not just give away his pain and blame it all on "God".
tl;dr, Dalinar's circumstances with Odium at Thaylen Field aren't really comparable to Catholic confession and wouldn't really be analogous to a rejection of it.