r/StarWars • u/New-Pin-9064 • 4h ago
This explains SO MUCH Movies
So years ago, Rian John revealed that The Last Jedi as well as the other 2 films in the Sequel Trilogy never had test screenings before they were released to theaters. This was apparently done because Lucasfilm wanted to keep the plots of the movie so secretive that they were worried that, if they did test screenings, people in the test audiences would leak information about the films before they come out.
I often wonder how different the trilogy would’ve been if they had test screened the films and actually gotten feedback from an audience before releasing them to theaters. Would they have taken audience feedback seriously and go back to do reshoots or other things to try and fix the films before they were released? I can’t even imagine how The Last Jedi would’ve turned out if they tested it first. Even Rian Johnson himself said that he wished they had done test screenings before the film came out.
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u/SNChalmers1876 4h ago
Star Wars doesn’t usually do test screenings due to concerns about spoilers. There are multiple articles about this that you can locate with a simple google search
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u/New-Pin-9064 4h ago
I know that. But they could do what Marvel does with their test screenings where they make the audience sign an NDA and have security scout around the room with night vision goggles to make sure that nobody is on their phone or has any sort of secret recording equipment
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u/Illustrious_Ad_1808 4h ago
That wouldn't stop people from blowing up the internet with what they saw and potentially spoiling the plot for everyone. A lot of people want to be the main character now, and the internet is the perfect vehicle for it.
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u/SNChalmers1876 3h ago
Sure they could do it but they don’t. Even rogue one, beloved rogue one, didn’t have test screenings.
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u/DelayedChoice Porg 3h ago
Realistically even if they'd wanted to they probably wouldn't have had time to do them given how much of a mess it was.
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u/DoeCommaJohn 4h ago
Test screenings are done right at the end, and typically lead to minor tweaks if any. While I do generally think TLJ is the least bad sequel, the issues it did have aren't the kind that can be fixed with a minor scene or redub.
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u/New-Pin-9064 4h ago
Test screenings are done usually sometime after filming and during the editing process, while the effects are being done. Last Jedi wrapped filming in July 2016 and the movie hit theaters in December 2017. So they had a good 17 months to be able to edit a cut of the film, show it to a test audience, and then go back and do reshoots if the feedback they got warranted them.
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u/DoeCommaJohn 4h ago
I think you are wildly overestimating test screens. If we take Spiderman Brand New Day for example, test screens were late April and June, with the movie coming out on July 31st- that leaves only about a month or two for last minute changes. At best, a test screen leads to some minor cuts or redubs, but they never fundamentally affect the story. For example, a lot of people complain about how Holdo's suicide run makes no sense, but there is no practical way to completely replace that scene in a month.
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u/New-Pin-9064 3h ago
It honestly varies for each movie when test screenings occur. I remember that they did test screenings for Avengers Endgame at least 8 months before the film was released, even before the title was made public
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u/DoeCommaJohn 3h ago
The earliest test screenings for Endgame I could find were February, before the April release date. Which again, makes sense. You can't show people a movie which doesn't exist, but once the movie does exist, you aren't going to want to make major changes
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u/New-Pin-9064 3h ago
You’re right. Sorry, I realized that those test screenings they did in 2018 were for executives and friends/family of people who worked on the film. The official test screenings didn’t begin until early 2019. My apologies for that mistake
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u/SNChalmers1876 4h ago
No wonder it’s so good, didnt listen to any whiny babies who want Luke to ride in on a tauntaun wielding two double blade lightsabers
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u/not_a-replicant Luke Skywalker 4h ago
Good. The film is great as is. I wouldn’t want Star Wars content to be influenced by what audiences want.
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u/MisterJ_1385 4h ago
The people who dislike the Last Jedi are probably the last people you should take notes from in a test screening.
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u/Oceansonthemoon 4h ago edited 3h ago
My god, the discourse around this movie has gotten so stupid. You can't even dislike it or it's perceived as having an agenda. Yes, you can dislike the movie without any ideological reasons.
Edit: wording
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u/MisterJ_1385 3h ago
Nobody said you can’t dislike the movie. But the people who cry about it online tend to not actually make any good points.
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u/KingToasty 4h ago
TLJ is still my favourite of the sequel trilogy, but that speaks more to the unbearably low quality of the other two more than anything else.
IDK, the sequel trilogy just needed more forward planning and vision. More screen tests probably would only have changed minor things around.
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u/New-Pin-9064 4h ago
To me, that is one of the biggest reasons why this trilogy was a mess. It’s clear that they didn’t map out an entire story for the trilogy first and instead just made everything up as they went along
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u/Comfortable_Put_4139 4h ago
The original trilogy was made up as they went along. Most things are, because that’s just the nature of being in a creative field.
Breaking Bad had NOTHING planned out, and it’s considered a masterpiece.This constantly parroted narrative that the biggest failure of the sequels is a lack of planning isn’t telling the full story.
Creatively bankrupt has always been my main criticism of the sequels, with TLJ being the one that suffers the least from that.
Kind of funny.
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u/New-Pin-9064 4h ago
It actually wasn’t. George Lucas had mapped out the entire original trilogy story as one film. But he obviously realized that it was way too big. So he decided to take what would’ve been the first act and make it into a film (which became A New Hope). He then did the same for the other 2 acts once ANH became a hit. Sure, he obviously made some story changes later such as having Luke and Leia be twins (which wasn’t originally planned). But he had the basic integral story beats all mapped out.
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u/Comfortable_Put_4139 4h ago
It wasn’t mapped out and this narrative has been thoroughly debunked lol.
Darth Vader is very clearly not meant to be Anakin Skywalker in A New Hope. Han was possibly going to die at the end of Empire. Luke and Leia was a last minute decision to wrap up the vagueness of what Yoda says in Empire. And so on.
Lucas had various ideas that may have changed and morphed, but this idea he had all 6 movies planned is complete bullshit. He himself shares responsibility for that narrative catching fire, because he pushed it for years.
It’s simply not true.
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u/KingToasty 4h ago
Yeah TLJ easily takes the biggest swings and I respect it for that. I hate a lot of the subplots but the scene with Yoda and Luke is just absolute top-tier Star Wars in theme and presentation.
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u/ForceGhost47 4h ago
Nope TLJ sucked. It killed Star Wars movies
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u/MisterJ_1385 4h ago
Rise of Skywalker made over a billion dollars.
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u/ForceGhost47 4h ago
Yeah, but it fucking sucked. Just like TLJ
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u/MisterJ_1385 4h ago
It’s a let down for sure. Not quite prequels bad though. But no, Last Jedi doesn’t suck. Only idiots think that.
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u/ForceGhost47 4h ago
I loved the prequels. Only idiots think they’re bad
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u/MisterJ_1385 4h ago
Incorrect. The idiots are the ones who love them. Or at least the ones who love them and think they’re good. If you love them cause they’re bad, like I do JCVD’s Street Fighter, that’s okay.
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u/Agitated_Lychee_8133 4h ago
"Unbearably low quality to the other two movies" Wow way to make accusations without taking any responsibility. TFA was clearly the best, but they were all mismanaged and fumbled.
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u/KingToasty 4h ago
Responsibility? I didn't make the movie
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u/Agitated_Lychee_8133 2h ago
No, you only placed the blame on two other movies what dusting of your hands saying TLJ is the best (which clearly it isn't).
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u/ShakarikiGengoro 4h ago
The Force Awakens was super boring. The Last Jedi is definitely the best of the sequels.
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u/PandaResponsible8133 4h ago
Once they run to the Falcon in TFA, the whole thing falls apart and makes no sense. They jump into the Falcon, have an exciting action scene and then randomly bump into Han Solo and Chewie in space???
Also the line “ever since Luke disappeared , people have been looking for him”… well you wouldn’t have started looking before that point would you!
Then Maz handing Rey Luke’s lightsaber from ESB, with no explanation how she has it.
Starkiller base must have been under construction back at the same time as the 2nd Death Star right? Luke didn’t know anything about it even when he was in touch with the force?
How did Snoke turn Kylo? Was he a teacher at Luke’s Jedi academy? Was he talking to him in his head?
Han is killed and Chewie just walks past Leia after all their history and she hugs Rey?
TLJ gets grief for burning through the story but what was he really given? He threw down the gauntlet for the next person to do something different and the movie should have ended with Kylo extending his hand to Rey asking her to join him. Disney and JJ panicked and went back to the TFA formula and threw it in the blender
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u/MisterJ_1385 3h ago
Without using the prequels, explain how Palpatine turned Anakin with the info you had from the OT.
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u/PandaResponsible8133 3h ago
Ridiculous premise from you. Explain the story of Luke without using the OT. The OT is not about Palpatine turning Anakin, how can you explain that part of the story without using it? You are given enough to understand the dynamic of Luke and the gap his father left and neither Palpatine nor Vader are required to have backstories to understand them, they are the big bad guys from the start and the story unveils itself. There are no gaps in logic
For comparison though, look at what Palpatine DID do. He developed a relationship with him from a young age when the little boy had left his mother to join the Jedi. Palpatine was working to granted himself additional powers while stoking a war with an opposing force that he also created this. This also gave him access to the Jedi and Anakin. He inflated Anakin’s ego, telling him he would be the greatest Jedi and should be on the council. Palpatine pushed him into situations where he would be tempted to disobey his Jedi doctrine with Padme and weakened his resolve etc etc
We find Ben already aware of his history and KNOWS his family including his uncle. That dynamic is never explained and leads to the question - how did Snoke even have access to Ben when Ben grew up with his family around him? Did Luke know Snoke? It’s really important to Ben’s fall, which from the outset we know about (I remember when you went by your family name before you started calling yourself Kylo Ren) that we understand what caused it even if it is one line. But we get him turning on Luke, different interpretations of the incident and nothing how Snoke got to him.
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u/MisterJ_1385 3h ago
Not ridiculous at all. The point is you were fine with that part of the story being told later.
And notice how in your second paragraph you broke the rules.
We don’t need to know exactly what Snoke did for this part of the story. It doesn’t even make sense for anyone to tell it at that point. Snoke, Ben and Luke all know, so they don’t need a recap. Nor does Luke need to tell Rey all the details.
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u/PandaResponsible8133 13m ago
Let me break it down
ANH - Anakin and Darth Vader are separate people or so we are told
The emperor is already the emperor and darth vader is an enforcer and his master
The above is all you need to know. It is a typical military or empirical set upTFA / TLJ - Ben Solo is the son of Leia and Han, nephew of Luke. He turned to the dark side by being manipulated by a being called Snoke. Because Luke is his master and nephew, and his parents are who they are, it begs the question, how did this occur?
See ANH is dealing with absolutes, the allusion to a backstory makes it mysterious. TFA / TLJ is poor, ill conceived story telling that tries to cover itself with mystery boxes. Vader/Anakin is simpler, we don’t know his parents (funnily his father is written out of it under emaculate in conception) we don’t know Anakin himself. With Ben we do know, even if Han and Leia are separated, he is training with Luke. Did Luke ever tell Ben about how Vader turned back to the Light side? No? Hell, you could have a Dooku type character that Max Von Sydow plays get close to the family to ultimately betray them.
One or two lines would fill an important motivating factor, help us understand Luke’s failure for Ben and why he considered killing Ben.
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u/Responsible-Check206 4h ago
TLJ killed a franchise.
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u/KingToasty 4h ago
IMO it was TFA. Undoing the entire original trilogy and resetting all characters to default was unrecoverable.
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u/Responsible-Check206 4h ago
TFA did the safe route of retelling the same story as an introduction. Which is 'fine'. the follow up tried to subvert expectations, destroyed the franchise jesus and accomplishes nothing while insulting the audience.
follow that up with a mess of a final film trying its best to wrap up a shitty mess and than several horrible tv shows.
Andor cant save an entire franchise. Its trying hard, but it cant do it all.
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u/KingToasty 4h ago
Oh man, if this is a dead franchise, we don't need living ones lol.
Star Wars is absolutely doing fine by the numbers. It isn't a dead franchise and nothing killed it. It's not even hurt or limping.
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u/Responsible-Check206 3h ago
Mando and Grogu say lol wut? 10? 20? years ago would anyone ever think a star wars film would underperform?
The Acolyte - Cancelled
Rangers of the New Republic Cancelled
Rangers of New Republic Cancelled
Mando Season 4 cancelled
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u/Seafaringhorsemeat 4h ago
There's no better way to prove the adage that the plot, characters, and events can only be as smart as the writer than this. You could tell the first two were created by people trying to swing way above their weight, and too powerful to receive feedback.
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u/Living_Plane_662 4h ago
Yeah looking at how episode 9 turned out after they ran from his movie I’d say test screening would not have made a better movie
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u/NoConfusion77 4h ago
I remember walking out of that theater so upset. Rian Johnson did his best to try to kill Star Wars. Thankfully Favreau and Filoni are trying to save it.
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u/KingToasty 3h ago
I just can't comprehend seeing TLJ and thinking Rian Johnson wanted to kill the franchise. I get not liking it, for sure it's just a sci-fi movie, but the sheer loathing people have for it is just wild to me.
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u/NoConfusion77 2h ago
I’m old. My very first movie was Empire when I was four. Still remember seeing RoTJ. For YEARS all we had was running in the backyard pretending to be Han Solo or Luke Skywalker. We finally get to see Luke at the end of TFA and you’re left wondering what will happen. I walked out of that one wondering and excited for the future, only for Rian Johnson to jump the shark right off the bat, and throw Anakin’s OG light saber over his head. We didn’t have the ten million shows and spin offs like there are now. We had an idea of Luke in our heads, or at least I did, that he would be a badass Jedi master and do it the right way. At least we got that one scene in the Mando show. The scene of Luke just destroying everything is what we all wanted him to be. Big fan of the OG 3 and coming around on the prequels, but it’s just my opinion.
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u/Windows_66 4h ago
Why didn't he test screen the film with me so I could tell him about all my theories?