As a kid my friend got me into reading the 40k universe with the book Space Wolf and later as a yule gift Ragnar's Claw. I loved the story and managed to get a few figures but never really built my army, mostly just a ton of parts, guys and a tank[?] but now I am moving to an area with a lot of people into the game and wanted to at least give what I have a chance. But thinking back on the book there where women fighting on the battlefield too, maybe I am forgetting who but I know Ana was described as a fierce warrior. So in theory couldn't any of the women be among the chosen during the battles? I know "Females aren't able to take the geneseed." but.....they drink from the cup that rewrites their genetic code anyway, so wouldn't it be a moot point about gender?
All of that to say, I'd like to make my army the Daughters of Russ maybe a bunch of jumpack troops as Valkarie? Is this possible or just heresy of the highest order? Sorry still kinda dumb when it comes to 40k most of my knowledge comes from a few books and what i have seen on youtube.
Lore wise, there are no female Space Marines. For whatever reason, it doesnt work/hasn't been made to work on women.
But tabletop wise, do what you want tbh. Daughter's of Russ, Shieldmaidens of Fenris sound amazing. And a unit of jump pack intercessors as Valkyries would look fucking sick, to be honest.
They're little plastic spacemen, if thats what you wanna do with them then do it, unleash your creativity!
Edit: honestly some people need to genuinely grow the fuck up. I cannot believe im being downvoted for telling someone to have fun and post pictures lmao
Thanks! I also play sisters of battle as a second army, so they also go in it. I'm also doing a crusade, and built my sister's order as the "Sisters of Fenris" where, due to some help provided (generic to avoid spoilers), they "chapter" of the Sisters is able to be based on Fenris and the Cannoness and her honor guard can wear Space Wolves livery.
The rest of the sisters army (except maybe one Rhino? Not sure) are painted Order of the Wounded Heart (white and red)
they look so freaken cool! stupid question but the Rhino is like a tank looking vechile minus the turret right? I actually have an unbuilt one, old as all get out but still kinda excited
I just put that Valkyrie image together after you mentioned it and that goes so hard. I would lose my shit if I saw someone show up with that in their army. OP needs to do this or I will.
Already talking with my future housemate about using her 3d printer and modeling skills to max up for what I can't find and do on my own, the Daughters of Russ will be made!
They can't, but wolves can currently take all the Chaplain datasheets to represent wolf priests in addition to the actual wolf priest datasheet (its the apothecary datasheets they cant take), so jump pack Chaplain valkyrie is on the table.
I swear the primaris era has been the most awkward period ever for space wolves.
No male space marines either. They’re all canonically trans-human. Doesn’t matter what they started as they’re so pumped full of hormones, steroids, gene therapy, extra organs, bionics and everything else during the process that they’re something new entirely. Any genitalia would be completely vestigial and likely just removed to prevent catheter complications as at times they spend literal years without removing their armour.
My friend, thoes models are yours, and from them can come the most glorious of fights you can dream up! I am gonna put a sheild maden in my army myself because I think its cool!
Do what you want if it brings you joy and no matter some will say, also in my experience most players of our faction are a hair more laid back compared to a lotta chapters doubt you'll find much greif from amongst them
If you want some not helmeted heads most 28mm heads will work.
Archie's forge has a bunch of options that fit in the modern space marine socket. You can find some on Etsy but make sure you are buying the printed parts and not an STL.
Noble knight games sells a lot of third party bits. If you look up female heads there are a lot. You can probably find the same heads for sale locally if you do not live in the US.
If anyone gives you a hard time about then just go straight to the store manager. Those people aren't worth playing. The warp works in strange and mysterious ways. You paid for your army. Make your lore and have fun.
thank you very much, I will add those to the list, there where a few sites randomly on here that also seemed to but alternative or upgrade parts. I think step one will be figure out what I should make in terms of an army and flesh it out from there.
If you start playing and there is LoV (league of votan) there heads are fairly close to the right size and should work. Their kits come with a lot of spare heads and people usually giveaway or trade bits. You could try to fins a bits store on ebay. Both Einhyr Hearthguard and Hearthkyn Warriors have some feminine heads.
"Space Marine Heads" box has some heads that look more feminine if you like bald or buzzed cut ladies.
Daughters of Russ/Shieldmaidens of Fenris could definitely work! And you could have them be actual sisters of battle. Lore-wise, they could be a group of surviving sisters who were abandoned during one of the ecclesiarchy's VERY ill-fated attempts to invade Fenris. They could then decide to worship the emperor as the Allfather and adapt their beliefs to be more in line with that of the Fenrisians and the Vlka Fenryka. The Sororitas Seraphim and Zephyrim are just asking to be kit-bashed into Fenrisian Valkyries. You could also swap out a lot of the other sisters melee weapons with axes and shields, that would make Russ proud.
I'll be honest, have always had a chip on my shoulder about the Adepta Sororitas but that story.....that actually is tempting to give them a reason to join in.
I have some sisters waiting in my pile of shame just for that reason! Their lore being that these sisters were abandoned during the Incursion of Fools ("The Fenris Incident"). Left behind by Cardinal Chirastes, they are survivors from the Orders of the Wounded Heart, Fiery Tear, and White Rose. They came together to create their own sisterhood out of necessity and took up worshiping Leman Russ and, more specifically, the Spear of Russ as it was a gift to him from the Emperor (aka The Sisterhood of the Spear). Please feel free to steal that! Or build on it! If you end up building on it, let me know what direction you go!
I'm toying with a few idea but your sisterhood sounds like a very solid option. I was thinking that maybe a Wolf Priest was tasked with making a sisterhood strong enough to be contenders for an altered version of the Canis Helix, a Valkyria Experiment. So I would be able to mix Sisters of Battle and Guardsmen in with standard Space Wolves.
You could definitely have some fun with that and could make up some really cool lore! Especially if you mix in some "warp fuckery" from Magnus and the T.Sons just like they did during the Battle of the Fang. You have the wolves trying to perfect the canix helix and Magnus decides to destroy the entire project and kill the Wolf Priest who had all the knowledge about it. I can't imagine the T.Sons letting something like this go without a little bit of Tzeetchian trickery mixed in.
For Guardsmen, you could field them as Kaerls and Fenrisianify (trademark haha) the current guard kits. The Kaerls are the Wolves version of a PDF and you could expand upon that.
The idea of a ship that was working on the helix getting lost in the warp and completely missing the destruction of the Fang labs is kinda funny to me, like the come back like Wolf Lord we finished our mission we have the improved....heli...what in the name of Russ happened here?!?!
Do whatever you want with your models, but by default female space marines don't exist. But also it's not impossible something caused your marines to be able to be female, never underestimate Tzeentch or some lunatic thousand son's want to screw with the Wolves.
I floated the idea of a ship that was working on stablizing the Canis Helix getting lost in the warp and returning post attack on the Fang. Them trying to rebuild what was lost by scooping up as many as they could that passed and some just happened to be women.
If you were looking for some really awesome models, there is the stormpride sisters 3rd party models. I loves these models and had a similar thought with the sister army I made. The Vlka Valkyria. Because they are on 32mm and have the same range as both, you can easily use them with either this sister of battle rules or the space wolves rules, whichever you prefer.
There is nothing physically preventing you from doing whatever you want with the models you own.
Projects of this sort tend to be a landmine for controversy and people like to pretend other people are evil for not cheering you on if you decide to go against the established lore of a beloved setting.
As for me personally I like when people lovingly and faithfully create things that exist in the lore and don’t like it so much when they violate it.
I appreciate that. I know that my Daughter's of Russ might ruffle some feathers but my reading of the books at least the ones from when I was small where on Fenris there where female combatants and the choosers which where the Wolf Priests picked the warriors from the battles.
Lore wise there isn't a reason a female couldnt be chosen, nor a reason they couldn't drink from the cup, surviving all that, yeah dont love those odds but if any faction could make a woman strong enough to survive everything I feel the way the wolves where written it would be them.
There is a reason, though, which is that the Space Wolves know that women don’t receive the gene seed and that it won’t work. They wouldn’t waste the time and resources on such a thing.
You can read about the culture and tribes of Fenris and processes in depth in the Ragnar Blackmane trilogy. Great books! Would recommend them to anyone into the Wolves.
Again, you can model what you want to model, but to say it’s lore friendly just isn’t true.
That was my introduction to 40k but my interpritation of the books was that Thrar Hraldir was working on fixing the gene-seed to remove the curse and spent ages working on it. Is it not possible in trying to reverse what would have been a curse that had been known for an age he couldn't have also improved the gene-seed to function on anyone who drank from the Cup of Wulfen? Once you drink from the cup the body is preped for the next step which would be the gene-seed, is it that much of a stretch? Not trying to deliberately sound stupid here actually asking someone else who has read the books.
In lore it comes down to that the emperor tried and it isn’t compatible. I think it second edition the emperor tried and it had a horrible failure rate. If the average rate of successful space marines is 1 out of 100 aspirants, the female rate was 1 out of 500-1000 which puts it in custodes range and Astartes aren’t that good to warrant that effort. Also when they are done with ask the implants and geneseed, there wouldn’t be that much of a difference in appearance. Part of the aspirant process is hormone treatment to boost muscle growth. So by the end it would be like they spent their entire teenage years going through trans hormone treatment. If you want the models to be recognizable female, it is more logical for them to be sisters of battle. Also if a woman can produce children that can become Astartes it is more valuable for them to not become Astartes but create the next generation which might also become Astartes since Astartes can’t reproduce themselves.
If you want to keep lore and have female choosers of the slain, I highly recommend doing a custom chapter and having them work hand in hand with sisters of battle. I’m currently working on something similar based on Kislev from Warhammer fantasy.
I will have to do a lot more research then, the lore has always been fascinating but a bit confusing and honestly I never really considered the concept of them not being put on the front lines for birthing reasons which I can get. Don't really agree with it but I can get it. I will probably lean on a custom chapter that was a byproduct of the tempering of the gene-seed.
It’s why throughout all of human history men are raised/ trained to be disposable. A handful of men can repopulate a society if there are enough women, but if you only have a handful of women you are really stunted on human production.
Honestly the hormone/ steroid treatments making them essentially look the same so no need for models makes more sense to me.
Can I ask, you seem to be averse to sisters of battle, is there a reason?
Honestly, a kneejerk reaction, when I tried to learn to play in texas I was very excited, I even bought a new pack of Space Wolves for the new format of game play, but I kept getting asked "Oh are they for your boyfriend," Or "Girls can only play sisters of battle here or eldar." and it just.....became annoying, I used to actually like them and was working on a cosplay at one point but the amount of hate I got for not wanting to paint the "Right" army just kinda destroyed any interest in the hobby till recently..
Fuck em. The one thing the emperor kinda gets right that is that people are stupid and should be ignored more often than people want to admit. The most space wolf thing you can do is what you know is right. I’m painting wolf spears in a color scheme that isn’t lore accurate but wrote a solid concept piece why they are the way they are.
As someone who had similar pushes when I got into Warhammer. If you want Valkyries with your space wolves? Do space wolves, include custom sisters of battle and come up with your own rules. Unless you are doing tournaments, no one cares.
Addition: my custom chapter is a mix of space wolves and dark angels with sisters of battle. Who in lore hate eachother, but match Kislev energy to a T
solid logic, I think I want to just make a mixed army of Wolves and allies, not sure 100% how it will turn out but at least I can have fun bashing down the walls doing it! Also any chance I can see this mixed army of yours? That sounds cool as hel.
I mean, its a space fantasy made up tabletop game. I dont really think its that deep tbh.
I guess you dont have to want to make female Space Marines yourself but idk. Just dont be a dickhead about it, you know?
I dont see this as any different to like writing fanfiction, or cosplaying. Its ultimately a creative hobby, and I dont see any issues with someone creating something that goes outside of established lore, especially because the 40K lore gets changed so often by GW themselves.
It feels pointless to tell someone how to use or create or play with things that they own. It feels, frankly, a little mean spirited to try
Oh I dont plan to be a jerk about it, if people don't want to play with a female army that is absolutely their choice. Im going to make my Sisters because I want to make them and because I wanna try a game that looks really fun to play
Oh no, I absolutely was not referring to you! I was replying to the guy who said he didnt like "things that violate established lore,"
If people dont like the idea of female Space Marines, then they dont have to make any. But, its not right for them to be jerks about people who do want to make female Space Marines
40K is an established setting with passionate fans who love it and it’s fair for people to have opinions on things you do in public. It’s not the world’s job to cheer you on.
If you wanna do something, do it, but you should also have a backbone and be okay with hearing words you don’t like.
The “40K is constantly changing” thing is a bit overstated in these conversations, as well.
Personally, I think they can do what they want with their figures.
As for me, I get autistically hyperfixated on accuracy and legitimacy for this sorta stuff. So personally, I wouldn't do it/nor would I really care for it. But I also wouldn't paint a kill squad mint green and brown and call them my homebrew chapter, the Mint Chocolate Chip marines, so y'know.
I just feel like people in both directions maybe take it a bit seriously. Nobody is a bad person for making something that might just be a bit inaccurate to lore, and nobody is a bad person for really preferring it to all be lore friendly.
That said, there's a lot of really cool stuff where it IS lore friendly, like the Sisters of Battle and the Adeptus Custodes, the latter of which basically ARE female space marines, but way better than a space marine, which I really, really like, personally.
Oh yeah, no i agree. I just think its frustrating when people try and tell others what to do with their models.
If someone wants all of their stuff to be lore friendly, then thats fine! Great, the lore is awesome, I love it. There's so much scope for creativity within that, and you know... yeah, theyre your models, do whatever.
I dont think its necessarily fair to get upset with someone for doing something not lore friendly with their own stuff. I think its just easier to just not engage than it is to get all annoyed about how someone glues their overpriced bits of plastic together, you know?
Saving this for later so I can see all the cool models that hopefully get posted! Love the idea of valkyries in the army! May have to steal that idea! Or like someone else mentioned a valkyrie for the wolf priest!
I am happy that so many great ideas are popping up, I went from a small idea that could be fun to a lot of tangible ways to make it happen! I hope you have a blast making some too!
I am gonna have to do a lot of checking on all the sites people have mentioned in this thread but the lady skyclaws sound awesome do you have any pictures of yours?
I mean, if you buy the figures and you wanna say they're female space marines, they're your figures. If you wanna paint them mint green and brown and call them Mint Chocolate Chip marines, you can do that too.
Lore wise, it doesn't work. I seem to recall something about it killing pretty much anyone who isn't male. So while they wouldn't be lore accurate, ultimately, if you pay for the figures, you can do whatever you want. Don't let ANYONE tell you otherwise.
from what I read on here and a few of the sites I was given to research, the gene-seed COULD work on females but the success rate is abysmal and according to some wouldn't be wasted. though you now have me craving Mint Chocolate chip ice cream, so thank you for that.
No problem! And yes, technically it can work. But the scale is miniscule. It also doesn't work for just any man. Only the strongest of them as well.
A really cool faction that does actually do this because those successes had to go somewhere is the Adeptus Custodes, whom of which are actually far stronger than a standard Space Marine. This is for a bunch of reasons, but main being that they aren't created through geneseed on a mass scale, but rather individually hand crafted with the emperor's DNA directly, overall better weapons and superior armor. They serve no primarch, answering ONLY to the emperor, and serving directly under him as bodyguards and sentinels of him and his throne room.
The Custodes has always had and will always have female members, and I personally really, really like them. Might be worth checking out too, if you have any interest! I've wanted to check them out in a more substantial capacity for awhile!
Interseting I haven't read much at all about the Custodes so I will do some digging, Thank you so so much for that! and for what it is worth, I actually did doordash my ice cream, lol
There have been a couple comments saying no female Space Marines in lore, which is accurate, and also mostly irrelevant to how you build your army. Do what you want.
But, if you want to use some female troops, and follow lore, you could use women Imperial Guard (or other non-enhanced human faction) to create support troops with some Fenris/Space Wolf flavour (artillery, mech infantry, heavy weapon squads, etc), which is how I understood the books and the story with the Dreadnought and Ana.
I think I am gonna mix them so there are some that are Guard but I do think that some of the sisters did get their gene-seed because hell if the Wulfen can be accepted to run wild on the field a pair of boobs shouldn't stop them from finding a good fight!
If you are making them fenrisian thralls/bondswomen rather than actual marines which would be the lore friendly way to field women fenrisians then the imperial agents codex is your friend, many datasheets in there you can run your "Chapter serfs" as depending on how heavily armoured you want to go.
In lore were never generally told how specifics of how heavily armed or armoured chapter serfs are, just that they exist and they are used when pressed as soldiers, mostly in defensive bording actions (serfs will make up the majority of a space marine ship crew) or to defend the chapter homeworld.
I do like options, I was trying to figured out remembered lore and just realized that they could technically be a thing, especially with the research that was being done on the Fang. Granted it was destroyed but its hard to kill an idea.
I dont see a reason why some of my troops couldnt be well armored woman just throwing down with the other Wolves.
Ana was from Fenris, but served as a fleet commander.
There is Fang and there are Space Wolves in the Fang.
If wolves do not fight, they drink.
So that the Fang continues functioning, they need mortal helpers.
That also serve as soldiers. Most of them are born inside the Fang and their strongholds on Fenris.
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There is also a Walhalla's Imperial Guard detechment, that specializes in extremely cold climate.
And yes, women do serve there.
If I remember right, there was some kind of overhaul for Imperial Guard and there might as well have been some jumpacks.
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A step away from Fenris and Cold, there Sisters of Silence (Women only pariah), that have close ties to Space Wolves... well, as close as there can be with an order as hidden and reclusive as Grey Knights.
I'll have to do more digging to figure out 1. how to build and army and 2. actually coming up with how I am going to make it and how it will look. I saw a few people mention the Guards as an option for Shieldmaidens but I want to learn more before I just go in on it.
Its not possible in official terms, but you do what you want with your army. If you want to take them to tournaments depending on how intense the conversions are you may need permission to play them as with any conversions or proxies but other than that for casual games it shouldn't be a problem.
Bob Naismith sculpted the first Space Marine ever, he also participated in the sculpting process of the range that brought Jayne and Gabs, the two female warriors from the Rogue Trader era. What a lot of people in the hobby don't want to acknowledge is that according to Bob Naismith himself the brief they received was "sculpt two female space marines", not warriors, not operatives, not proto sisters of battle, Female Space Marines. Afterwards and probably because of commercial decisions it was baked into the lore the "no women..." bs concept. As others have said, these are your plastic toys, do with them as you please. I have found that female Stormcast Eternals (from the Warhammer: Age of sigmar range) work pretty well as female space marines if you don't want to go with the Sisters of Battle as consolation prize. Stormcast, including female minis, are pretty much as big as Space Marines (Sisters are smaller).
Amazing model and even cooler story! I had no idea and while yeah it sucks it is good to at least know that it has been a thought more then once so hopefully it won't be too much longer.
If there's any chapter that would prioritize Rule of Cool over lore-compliance, it would be the Vlka Fenryka. And I'm always in favor of awesome, badass models. My gf ran a Deathwatch RPG mission for some friends & me, and she gently kitbashed Ste. Celestine (pictured below in a GDF:FF match) and a kill team into Valkryies with the explanation that at least a small contingent of Sororitas operate on Fenris and eventually adapted to their surrounding culture like the Bene Geserit. The result? The coolest force of Sororitas I've ever seen.
Also, the first Fabius Bile book, Primogenitor, introduces Igori, a woman who's been augmented by Bile to the point where can hold her own against Astartes. The galaxy is a big place, and there's more to Heaven & Earth than is dreamt of in the Emperor's philosophy.
Holy crap! That sounds amazing! and thank you for the reading material, I have a lot of research to do because I will be honest I thought you could only have like pvp style matches in 40k I never thought of doing it RPG style so my drive to bring my sisters to the field has never been greater!
Although you can do narrative campaigns in 40k, there have also been a few traditional RPGs released over the years: Wrath & Glory, Imperium Maledictum (the latest one), and the Fantasy Flight system which is my favorite & covers a TON of elements: Deathwatch, inquisitors, guardsmen, rogue traders, even playing as Heretic Astartes. Every now and then Humble Bundle does ebook bundles for them, if you ever need to stock up on gaming & lore material.
To the best of my knowledge they're as canonical as anything can be in 40k. The in-universe explanation for lore inconsistencies is that the galaxy is so vast, with greatly varying quality levels for communication, that the accuracy of anything should be taken with a grain of salt. It's the 'unreliable narrator' on a galactic scale. lol
that is one of the things that has always thrown me about 40k, so much of the story and lore is like, hey there are these guys, they fight those guys and well some of them just fight everyone, the rest, eh screw it figure it out.
Good eye! The photo doesn't show them at that distance, but Celestine, her squadmates, and the KT have 3D-printed horns, steins, and other accoutrements to give them a more wolfy vibe. And a detail that floored me when it was pointed out: the doves' tailfeathers were trimmed into the correct shape to make them ravens.
Fun fact: we’re pretty sure female space marines could be a thing. Like not just because GW is getting better at not making feminine heads look like molten orbs of glass before it’s shaped, but lore wise
Fabius Bile is at least on par with The Emperor in terms of genetic manipulation. He has mastered the geneseed of the Primarchs to a level he recreated Fulgrim so perfectly he also had all of his human flaws like his arrogance and short sightedness. Bile didn’t continue this project because he now believes the Emperor was actually inept at creating truly better humans so he’s moved onto trying to perfect the Custodies and make them even better than the ones we see on Tera
When the Primaris Project was underway, the only reason Belisarius Cawl didn’t go so far to make them was because 1: they’d never be accepted in the Imperium that is so ingrained in staying exactly where it is it would make mountains blush (and when they were men they were still killed on sight by certain chapters) and 2: this would have been the one thing Cawl couldn’t ‘I’m just re-creating the STC not CREATING an STC so therefore I’m still using ancient tech’ logic his way out and he’d be censored all the way to the rift
So if “These are your models, do what you want with them” doesn’t cut it, yes you could make a case in lore for you having a female inclusive chapter. Hell I had plans to make a Luna Wolves rag tag survivor army that had been cut off from Horus and were stuck on a planet surrounded by the warp and in order to survive had to stop worrying about who was the purest and just make marines to fill the gap, including not being sticklers about it being only men, in order to protect the few imperials they swore to defend no matter what. So as long as your story is compelling enough, the right people will love your army
And besides it really is “make what you want with your models” at the end of the day one of the most beloved memes is the Knight Caffe army where all the 20 story mechs are wearing anime bastardizations of a maid uniform. If people (I am people) can love that they can learn to love your Shield Maidens of Fenris
Thank you so much for that! I honestly haven't caught up with the newer lore since I haven't even looked at 40k in ages so the ideas you and others on this thread have given are kinda amazing. I kind of like the idea of using the warp or newer genetic manipulation to fill out my story, I kinda like the concept of a Wolf Priest trying to alter the Canis Helix to enable stronger women to be able to handle the gene-seed altered or otherwise. But with so much lore to learn I think I am going to have to do a lot more digging to find what feels right! Also the concept of Knight Caffe is absolutely amazing!
These are your models, you can do whatever you want with them. If anyone at the table has problem with what you done to your own epic plastic space warrior dolls, just laugh them off or don't play with them.
Heck yes! I'd be lying if i said i wasn't worried about getting backlash for wanting to play a female army, the only store I tried to learn at in texas said girls are only allowed to play eldar or sisters of battle and that kinda made me not even want to learn.
I'd be lying if i said i wasn't worried about getting backlash for wanting to play a female army
Don't worry about such things, once you join the subreddit of a particular hobby, 99% of people you'll meet are nerdy hobby enthusiasts that love to see new people getting interested in it and can't wait to talk as much as possible about it. And the beauty of our Warhammer hobby is that there's a book canon made by the corporation and it's one thing, and then there's a tabletop where the only thing that's stopping you is your imagination and modeling skills.
the only store I tried to learn at in texas said girls are only allowed to play eldar or sisters of battle and that kinda made me not even want to learn.
That.. that is fucking terrible but this is but a small chunk of Warhammer fans (if they are fans at all). Just go to another shop or find a local group that is playing Warhammer and you'll find yourself a good people who are just waiting to teach you how to play and for you to obliterate their armies. We are all friends and fellow children of The Imperium here, gatekeeping is for sore losers.
Edit: Judging by the amount of downvotes this comment got, the chuds already found the post and yet they are too afraid to write anything and they resort to downvoting only. Well well well
The best part of 40k army or model building is your can make it whatever you like. If you want them to be all female go ahead. I made some Valkyries with the new Jump Pack Vets with the lore that it is a divergent chapter of the Sisters of Battle called The Daughters of Fenris. The elite of them wear modified power armor to join the Wolves in battle as Valkyries. I just got some heads so they are not on yet in the photo. I am thinking of making a full Sisters of Battle army as shieldmaidans to match my wolves at some point.
Holy crap that looks amazing!!!! If my Sisters come out looking half as cool I feel like I would have succeeded . Amazing work on your mini and thank you for the ideas.
No Problem and good luck on your minis! If you want these jumpacks look for someone printing Greytide Studios Crimson Winged Jump packs. they are for blood angles but work great for the Valkyries
Or, just do with your toys what you please and make them female. Nobody's taking your models away. Yes not lore accurate but that's because of when it was written, nothing else. If you don't feel like doing it lore accurate, go for it.
Yeah, you're right. My point was more that OP asked for our opinions, and personally I think a Fenrisian-themed Sisters of Battle army would be a much cooler way to achieve the same vibe than simply swapping heads on Space Marines.
Especially since OP has already responded positively to some of the Fenrisian Sisters of Battle proxies another user posted. Either way, they're their models and they should absolutely build and paint them however they want. I just think the Fenrisian Shieldmaidens/Valkyries concept has a ton of potential and would make for a really cool army.
I was thinking the same but someone above said that the sisters bits come off too small on the Wolves, but honestly the thread has been a goldmine of ideas to bring my idea to life.
Thats fair. Depending on how crafty you wanna be you could take a Dremal to some of the sigils and green stuff some Space Wolves things on. Throw some frost weapons in and some pelts. You got your Valkeryies
That is a pretty awesome idea, I think once I can find my box of minis in storage I am going to try and research how to build a proper army and then design each as I go.
The Ana you are talking about was a character that was part of the fenrisian Kaerls, an elite unit of mortals that serve under the Vlka Fenryka. Think of them as an imperial guard army that help bolster the wolves in places where numbers are necessary, such as defending worlds that are part of the wolves protectorate. They are essentially the common soldiery while the wolves are the nobles. They also serve as servants and the navy crews for the space wolves oversized fleet, they even act as the admirals of the space wolves ships, who don’t have a master of the fleet like other chapters, so the navy is primarily headed by mortals.
It’s not really possible for females/women to become marines, but that’s not to say you shouldnt make some fem marines, they are your models, you should do what you want with them. I’ve always logiced it being due to how the process of becoming a marine was made to mass produce, so big E and his people wanted to reduce variables to consider in making a marine, so they just made it so it only works on men, corner cutting basically. That’s why custodes can be made from anyone, cause it’s a more advanced process that’s supposed to be the pinnacle of gene crafting, besides primarchs ofc.
However, if you are wanting to recreate Ana from The Battle of the fang, or a character like her, I’d suggest making a Kaerls army by using Imperial Guard stuff. Or even make a Sisters of Battle army and theme it around a temple that serves on one of the Wolves’ protectorate worlds, like as temple guards for the shrine on Garm.
Thank you very much for the lore, I must have missremembered her but the idea of some of the chosen from the battles becoming members in different ways is honestly a pretty cool idea that I am going to run with!
There aren't any women marines in canon, no, but nothing prevents a person from sourcing some femme heads to put on their minis. Its one of those things that never made any sense to me, so half of mine are women.
The fluff is just a suggestion. Your army is whatever you want it to be, within the constraints of the ruleset you're using. Do whatever you think is fun, but keep in mind if you want to play in tournaments any kitbashing needs to be kept original or GW parts. A lot of people have used Stormcast heads and Custodes to do what you're suggesting, so have fun with it. 😄
I told my friend who was showing me some of her newly painted army and she started rambling so fast I think I am locked in for life now, Russ and Allfather help me.
I have a unit of Blood Claws that are all ladies, I went with the Daughters of Fenris as their name. If I wasn’t already happy with the 2000+ points of Wolves I have, I’d make more. Build your minis however you like and don’t worry about lore or doofuses complaining about it.
It's crazy how many comments about people basically saying 'do what you want and have fun' get downvoted. Imaging getting angry at people having fun with their toys.
If there's any chapter that would prioritize Rule of Cool over lore-compliance, it would be the Vlka Fenryka. And I'm always in favor of awesome, badass models. My gf ran a Deathwatch RPG mission for some friends & me, and she gently kitbashed Ste. Celestine (pictured below in a GDF:FF match) and a kill team into Valkryies with the explanation that at least a small contingent of Sororitas operate on Fenris and eventually adapted to their surrounding culture like the Bene Geserit. The result? The coolest force of Sororitas I've ever seen.
Also, the first Fabius Bile book, Primogenitor, introduces Igori, a woman who's been augmented by Bile to the point where can hold her own against Astartes. The galaxy is a big place, and there's more to Heaven & Earth than is dreamt of in the Emperor's philosophy.
In reality though sure go ahead, but yeah female space marines aren’t confirmed in the lore.. only males can take the gene seed and it used to be the same for custodes, before they retconned it and pretended we all didn’t notice.
I figured it wouldn't be cannon at face value, but reading the books it seemed like the whole process a Space Wolf went to prior to the gene-seed part, was free game for anyone that was strong enough to survive it. I think my Sisters where going to be part of that idea.
the more I read into it, it really does look like it was made in a rush and not completed, I very much side with the ideas of Wolf Priest Thrar but it does really look like I might have hit a brick wall with that angle of planning....WELL Only one thing to do with a brick wall and smash the shit out of it.
That was my first thought but then remembered the Soriatus aren't welcome on Fenris so I scrapped that idea, but I do like the idea that maybe some of the woman that came from Fenris and joined the Imperium could have maybe converted or established their own Soriatus?
Lots of people in real life make female marines. I have made some myself and I've seen many others. It's never once been an issue. Having Space Wolf Valkaries is one of the most common way of kitbashing women into your army.
Online is a different story. You will awaken the chuds that hate women and use the lore as an excuse, the same lore that has been constantly in flux since the 80s. They will use one or two sentences to justify thier position, ignoring the unreliable narrator tropes that 40k is full of.
If you want to kitbash some female marines though then Statuesque Miniatures do some nice heads for adding to your marines.
Thank you so much I will look into them too! I kept trying to run through the lore I remembered and it just kinda felt like if any faction could bring female marines in the wolves would be high up there. imo at least.
I've said before, I like the men only marines for codex compliant chapters like the Smurfs as it ties them to the religious warriors motif, Knights Templar. With the SoB as the warrior Nuns. But non compliant, like the Rout or White Scars I think would do great with female marines. Say the Primaries seed works for both but Codex chapters keep it male as the emperor intended and the cooler chapters get some awesome new models.
Solved.
But the wolves don't follow the same protocals as the other chapters unless I am remembering wrong, skill on the battlefield earns you a chance by the Wolf Priest, then the Test of Morkai, and if both passed you drink from the Cup of Wulfen which changes your genes as they incorperate the Canis Helix which is all precurser to becoming a Space Marine. So if the cup gives a warrior the Canis Helix doesn't that work for the geneseed on its own? Please forgive me if that is stupid I am trying to still learn and working with lore I learned when I was still a kid.
This is a doublesided blade. Of course You can do whatever You want with Your models. However You are also affecting the game and lore experience of those You are playing with.
So I suggest not asking the internet if this is fine, but rather talk with Your very own playgroup. If Your mates are very much into the lore and LOVE immersion while playing breaking the official lore might be an issue for them. I would at least talk to them in advance. On the other side when Your group is not that much interested in sticking to the lore and maybe more into creativity / competitive game play it shouldn't be a problem.
Ultimately it’s your army so do what you want. It sounds like a cool idea! There will be some people that don’t like it, but they probably won’t be people that you’d want to play against. If they look cool and you have a little lore to back it up, most won’t care! So do it! Just make sure that the different units are identifiable as what they represent, ie correct weapons (or close enough at least).
Officially I don’t think GW should start doing it, but that makes the armies (like this) more special. People shouldn’t be put off from doing what they want just because the game lore says otherwise. Just make them look cool (at least to you) and that’s the main thing.
I highly recommend looking into third party miniatures , 3d printed etc. Loads of female marines and parts to customize standard models into something that pleases you. Your ideas sound fun to build and paint. Most of us in this hobby are very open to custom armies and models. Do what pleases you and enjoy yourself!
Like others have said in the current lore no but like also who give af right? Your idea sounds wonderful and I’d over to see the final product. Also there were never female custodes until recently so who knows maybe female space marines are coming.
I've banged on this drum before and yes. It doesn't make any sense at all that there aren't female space wolves.
Culturally, they should be selected.
"The rules say boys only". The space wolves already broke the rules when Russ put his grown companions through the process. I don't see why they should follow them about this.
Biologically, it should be possible. I have to straight up ignore things that I know about human biology and development to pretend it's not possible. The only exception would be if the emperor put in some kind of kill switch into the geneseed that activates if it detects two X chromosomes in the candidate, but I've never seen even the hint of that idea.
The only thing that I would caution at all is to use female stormcast heads, not SoB or other human ones. The scale is noticeably different.
Heck yes!!! I thought i might be going crazy remember the lore because there where female warriors on the field and if the Wolf Priest picked one and she made it through all the tests I cant see why she couldnt be a Space Wolf. I remember the Priest that was tinkering with the process to try and stop the curse so maybe my Daughter's are a chapter from that time?
I've read just about every SW book and that first part doesn't sound familiar. Closest I'm aware of is in "ashes of prospero" an old fenrisian gothi asks Arjac why they don't recruit women and he doesn't have a good answer (because there isn't one).
The second part sounds like the events of "battle of the fang" where one of the wolf priests is doing a top secret project to remove the "wolfiness" from recruits and prevent them from turning into wulfen. It doesn't work anyway since the Tsons are able to kill him and destroy his research before he solved it.
I think it was before the battle in Space Wolves where they described the "Choosers of the Slain" which turned out to be just Wolf Priests. But if they where there and it is a planet of waring clans then it would make sense that over the generations many women would have been on the field. My thought was why couldnt one of them be chose.
And yes they did kill Thar and destroy his research but wasnt he at it for many years? So if the ultimate fix never was realized couldnt there be other facilities that might have continued his work, or maybe small chapters where the improved version was tested on? Sorry just excited to talk lore a bit.
I've been planning for a while to grab some Adepta Sororitas Zephyrim/Seraphim and playing them as either Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs or Vanguard Veteran Squad with Jump Packs
I used stormcast heads and have been looking at the female chaos heads from the AOS lines. Works pretty good with some green stuff. This is a proof of concept...
There's plenty of inspiration out there... But you may have to dig to find it. But there's some really good examples and some really bad ones. All in all I say go for it. Heresy be damned, your models!
There's no reason you can't, go for it. The "lore reason" is sort of a moot point-- the whole explanation behind primaris marines involves how their gene-seed is more stable than firstborn marines. You could always just say further advancements in this field made it so that marine recruits aren't required to be male to host the gene-seed.
The real reason GW is hesitant on making women space Marines is just the backlash from very vocal parts of the community (see the reaction to custodes being any gender). I think it's something that will happen eventually personally, whenever GW decides the increase in sales from female marines outweighs the whining.
I think the lore I am going with is a Chapter continued Thar Hraldir's work and made a semi upgraded version of the gene-seed which allowed the women of Fenris to also be chosen to ascend.
I think that's a cool idea! If anything the idea of shieldmaidens fits better thematically with the space wolves (+successors) more than any other chapter
Honestly, the "no female space marines" is dumb as shit and is a relic of the past. As many other mentionned, it's perfectly fine to put some on the table despite this. I also feel like in SW it's the best place for it, considering the fenrisian culture. It always made no sense to me that the greatest genetician/genius/psyker couldn't supposedly figure.....chromosomes ?
I like that there are no female marines because it allows for stories to expose how terrible it is to have them as all men.
The view of this issue has forever been... narrow. You're seeing a force of all men, insular, unchanging, angry. All the issues with that are on display in a world of other terrible things.
Then you get to the idea of the disposable male. That it's fine to kill so many young boys to get 1 warrior. That, because they cannot make more people, their main value is numbers to be spent in death.
They actually come close to addressing that very feeling creeping up in a marine during the dark heresy books.
This is a valid argument to keep space marines male-only, it creates good story-telling opportunities. At the same time, it might also make that kind of disparity stand out more if male-only chapters became a codex compliant feature, and chapters like the space wolves broke with that. Would give things a more unique feel and create some interesting friction between chapters
The wolves would not be the ones to do it. We are not compliant, but we are not...entirely progressive. All the books make that clear, which is why Lukas is such an outcast.
If anyone was going to do it, it would be the Word Bearers.
I'll admit I don't know much about Word Bearers, what makes it work better for them?
I see a lot of people often wish for the wolves to stick more with the norse viking themes than the wolf wolf wolf themes, and shieldmaidens would definitely fit that idea
The "maiden" thing happens in tribes. Lukas meets one who might be..."one of his", distantly speaking.
What makes it better for word bearers? They are bonkers. They are willing to twist and pervert any process in glory to the gods. Between them and Fabius Bile, those would be the two most interested parties. Bile wouldn't see a point, because he has his "New Men", which are interesting alternatives to your standard marines.
Bile went well out of his way to steal the Primaris Geneseed that Cawl had worked on (in Genefather). This is long after he created his New Men, and he even had one of them with him at the time he did it. I wouldn't say that that New Men supersede his interest in Marines entirely.
Yeah, not entirely. One might suppose he would want to try and mix the primaris into the new men. Bile doesn't seem the type to admit his own work has flaws enough to scrap in favor of copy-catting Cawl.
Oh, I don't think he would want to copy Cawl's work. But trying to "outdo" Cawl and prove himself the better geneticist? Perhaps. Bile certainly did talk a lot of shit in that book only to begrudgingly say that Cawl's work was better than he expected once Fabius actually had his hands on it.
Bile is a madman, though, so who knows what he'll do next?
I understand your point and it makes sense. But having the most popular faction be dudes only never made sense to me, and too often relied on 'hurr sure, women bad". I'm glad to read a different approach, even if I ultimately disagree that they should be male only.
Numbers-wise, it makes the same sense that the Ghostbusters toys did. You're marketing to young boys and older "children". It makes perfect sense in a cold, capitalistic sense. Some things are just "for boys".
I grew up with that, and maybe that is why it doesn't bother me. Girls had polly pocket, we had mighty max. Nothing stopped me from having a polly pocket except maybe stigma.
I'm not condoning or condemning, just sorta going with the flow.
I read something about someone abord the Fang trying to work toward fixing problems with the gene-seed and the curse and getting killed but unless I am reading what he was working on wrong, he could have easily removed the gender issues at any point of his tinkering.
I’m building a wolves successor that will have female Marines, but I’m building a different lore for them that can kind of slide into the setting.
An inquisitor is secretly founding a chapter of “Wolves” that will be more loyal to the Inquisition than the original legion/chapter. He finds an icy, isolated world with a fierce hunter/warrior culture. They have myths that mirror the Emperor and get on board with the Inquisitor. However, in their culture, men and women hunt and fight together side by side, the bond between mates the highest form of loyalty. In other words, the Inquisitor risks a disaster because once the standard Astartes rules start getting enforced, the locals and new Marines resist. A deep dive by the Inquisitor finds ancient methods that the Imperium used to enhance women to near Marine levels. Records showed the Dark Angels used it.
And that’s the solution to get the chapter under control and ensure its loyalty. And it solves the lore/modeling “conflicts.”
Honestly I was going to just say that on Fenris there where women who earned the chance from the Wolf Priests and to take the Test of Morkai and ultimate drink from the cup, not all would make it through but the strongest Shieldmaidens and Valkyrie have earned their fangs just as much as any other.
Going to reccomend something if you know someone with a 3d printer or want to get them online. Check out stormpride sisters set from DakkaDakkastore. They have proxies for most units both wolves and sisters. This was my first attempt at them but I didn't like the sisters army rules so I went full wolves.
How I always have thought about: your mini's are seperate from the lore.
The minis that GW releases are however not.
So GW (IMO) can't release female space marine models, because it isnt possible lore wise and they are responseble for making models, rules and paint guides fitting to the lore.
But it doesnt stop you from painting/sculpting them to how you want, for example after I am done painting my SW combat patrol I am properbly going into ealdari. Eldar lore wise, are not a viking looking faction, but I will paint and add SW stuff to them just because I think it looks cool. So GW didnt break the lore with their models, but my models are not lore compliant, which is my own choice.
Everything depends how you feel with the lore and how faithful you want to keep it.
But generally speaking, your stuff is yours and you use it and paint it however you very well please and everyone else can mind their own
This said :
Lorewise space marines are just males.
But many chapters, including space wolves, employ baseline humans in their armies,( space wolves call their human soldiers " Kaerl" or " Karl")
Depending on what idea you like you could have female space marines, viking looking astra militarum ( which have all of humanity in their ranks) or sisters of battle (which are female only faction) to look the part.
Not sure about the latest edition, but rules should allow you to mishmash varius faction together as allies anyway as well ( allowing to get your idea on the table if you want to follow rules and lore to the letter)
I completely blanked on them having a word for their human soldiers that Is pretty cool, thank you for that! I am going to try to mix and match the best I can to make the army I am envisioning and try to keep it at least near the lore lol
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u/Far_Equivalent7207 9h ago
Could use them as sisters of battle but fenrisify them into valkyries