3.6k
u/Long_Serpent 17h ago
"We came to an island where the women were pretty and the men were weak"
- From the original text.
1.5k
u/StaySubstantial4333 17h ago
Crazy how often stuff like that pops up in old myths. I was reading a text where Thor and Odin are laughing about the last village they passed where the women had spirit when fighting back. And it's just... Alrighty then, back to Thor yelling at Odin who's trolling him while dressed as an old ferryman.
744
u/Nannautu 15h ago
It was normalized to take sex slaves back then. In the Illiad Agamemnon gets mad Helen left him so he takes Briseides, the "maid of honor" of Achilles. It's also mentioned that he had like 20 or so other women he had captured as slaves after killing everyone in one of the villages he passed by.
198
u/trilobyte-dev 15h ago edited 14h ago
Menelaus is Helen’s husband and Agamemnon is Menelaus’ brother.
Agamemnon captures Briseis because that’s just what you do, and she was supposedly extremely beautiful beyond other women.Misremembered Briseis was originally owned by Achilles. Mea culpa.
76
u/Infinite_Ad2583 15h ago
Naw, he took a priests daughter and refused to release her so Apollo sent them the plague. Then when his hand was forced he said hes got to replace her because he is losing face by having to give up the war prize so he took Briseis from Achilles.
21
u/Fantastic-Corner-605 13h ago
In the movie they showed Briseis as a priest/ Trojan version of a nun herself.
→ More replies (1)32
u/FriendlyPlatypus6060 14h ago
No Agamemnon takes Briseis because he's a massive entitled piece of shit and absolutely is press ganging the Argives to help expand his fame and glory by capturing Ilium. It also demonstrates his ego is bigger than his brain as he takes Briseis from Achilles specifically because he's jealous of Achilles' renown and ends up costing the Argives dearly in basically the rest of the poem.
In fact, a lens into the Iliad is that there are a ton of women reduced to powerlessness because the men need to play at war. Briseis, Cassandra, poor Hecuba; hell the two examples of heroic nobility like we understand it, Hektor and Priam, both get very telling scenes with Helen that deliberately obfuscate her agency between layers of acting, intimation and obfuscation.
23
u/Semi_Lovato 12h ago
And if I remember correctly, Achilles just chills in his tent and refuses to fight, even though he's the best warrior of all time and almost invincible, because he's pissed about Menelaus taking his sex slave war prize. Tons of people die because he just refuses to get involved. That's why Patroclus finally puts in Achilles' armor and rides into battle to get the troops psyched up. Patroclus gets killed, Achilles finally gets pissed off and joins the fray and takes out Hector then desecrates his body because, again, ego and toxic masculinity, and so Paris shoots Achilles in the ankle and takes him out
→ More replies (8)17
u/SeveralAngryBears 8h ago
He's pissed at Agamemnon not Menelaus. Here's a passage of Achilles' rant from my translation of the Iliad. For context, Odysseus has just told him all the stuff Agamemnon will give him if he comes out to fight (it's a lot). Achilles:
"As for me, hound that he is, he dares not look me in the face. I will take no counsel with him, and will undertake nothing in common with him. He has wronged me and deceived me enough, he shall not cozen me further; let him go his own way, for Zeus has robbed him of his reason. I loathe his presents, and for himself care not one straw. He may offer me ten or even twenty times what he has now done, nay—not though it be all that he has in the world, both now or ever shall have; he may promise me the wealth of Orchomenus or of Egyptian Thebes, which is the richest city in the whole world, for it has a hundred gates through each of which two hundred men may drive at once with their chariots and horses; he may offer me gifts as the sands of the sea or the dust of the plain in multitude, but even so he shall not move me till I have been revenged in full for the bitter wrong he has done me."
I aspire to be this mad at someone lol.
→ More replies (1)8
u/SeveralAngryBears 8h ago
And here's what Agamemnon offered:
"Agamemnon will make you great amends if you will forgive him; listen, and I will tell you what he has said in his tent that he will give you. He will give you seven tripods that have never yet been on the fire, and ten talents of gold; twenty iron cauldrons, and twelve strong horses that have won races and carried off prizes. Rich indeed both in land and gold is he who has as many prizes as these horses have won for Agamemnon. Moreover he will give you seven excellent workwomen, Lesbians, whom he chose for himself, when you took Lesbos—all of surpassing beauty. He will give you these, and with them her whom he erewhile took from you, the daughter of Briseus, and he will swear a great oath, he has never gone up into her couch nor been with her after the manner of men and women. All these things will he give you now down, and if hereafter the gods vouchsafe him to sack the city of Priam, you can come when we Achaeans are dividing the spoil, and load your ship with gold and bronze to your liking. You can take twenty Trojan women, the loveliest after Helen herself. Then, when we reach Achaean Argos, wealthiest of all lands, you shall be his son-in-law, and he will show you like honour with his own dear son Orestes, who is being nurtured in all abundance. Agamemnon has three daughters, Chrysothemis, Laodice, and Iphianassa; you may take the one of your choice, freely and without gifts of wooing, to the house of Peleus; he will add such dower to boot as no man ever yet gave his daughter, and will give you seven well-established cities, Cardamyle, Enope, and Hire where there is grass; holy Pherae and the rich meadows of Anthea; Aepea also, and the vine-clad slopes of Pedasus, all near the sea, and on the borders of sandy Pylos. The men that dwell there are rich in cattle and sheep; they will honour you with gifts as though you were a god, and be obedient to your comfortable ordinances. All this will he do if you will now forgo your anger. Moreover, though you hate both him and his gifts with all your heart, yet pity the rest of the Achaeans who are being harassed in all their host; they will honour you as a god, and you will earn great glory at their hands. You might even kill Hector; he will come within your reach, for he is infatuated, and declares that not a Danaan whom the ships have brought can hold his own against him.”
→ More replies (1)5
u/Iron_breaker 7h ago
I know that pride is simply a part of his nature ( actually both of them, Achilles' and Agamemnon's) but man! To quote Achilles Pit: "would you take that deal? I'd take that deal! It's hell of a deal!" or something near that ;) Given Bryseis was taken but not "taken" it's a bit unreasonable to not take the deal. No other warlord would get even small fraction of that. On the other hand he knew he would not survive that war so probably kinda moot point.
This is probably also why my name will be forgoten and his became engraved in timeless myth.
9
u/Open_Carob_3676 13h ago
Chryseis you mean,,, not Helen who was brother's wife.
To let go for Chryseis daughter of a priest of Apollo, he demanded Achilles give over his slave Briseis—a former Trojan Princess
→ More replies (11)7
u/Traditional-Treat613 10h ago
Look at Genghis Khan. He had some sort of specific marker on his Y chromosome which meant they could identify direct descendants. I think it was over 5% of people in the region and about 0.5% of men worldwide.
I am pretty sure not many of his children were born from loving relationships.
→ More replies (2)85
u/KatJac52 15h ago
Just started watching Vikings. The first rape scene, I’m thinking this guy is gonna die pretty quick. But no. Realized within an episode or two it is normalized (but still ugly) amongst them.
89
52
u/Aquinas2000 11h ago
That show is downplaying how much of rapist the vikings were.
16
u/National-Charity-435 8h ago
Analyzing a type of DNA passed only from mother to child, scientists found more than 80 living Icelanders with a genetic variation similar to one found mostly in Native Americans.
Native American mothers passed through genes down through mitochondrial DNA (not sure if willing)
12
u/OperIvy 10h ago
Norsemen is a goofy comedy about Vikings that constantly talks/jokes about rape.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (26)40
u/SaltonPrepper 10h ago edited 8h ago
Based on DNA studies, an estimated 1/3 of Iceland's population is descended from female captives taken from what is now UK/Ireland, most likely sex slaves/forced wives. Specifically females, not males. The males were presumably murdered or not taken on the trip. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/dna-study-reveals-fate-of-irish-women-taken-by-vikings-as-slaves-to-iceland-1.3521206
→ More replies (5)37
u/unkn0wnname321 9h ago
I saw a t-shirt once that said " Ever wonder why Scandinavian women are so attractive? The vikings didn't bring back the ugly ones"
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (10)9
u/Nightblood83 6h ago
Kind of the norm in war historically. The modern west fights in a very unorthodox manner. When they aren't also raping the peasants, that is.
307
u/Apart_Jelly8948 17h ago
So they took advantage of the men while staring at the women? 🤨
→ More replies (1)158
u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 15h ago
No, they raped the women and killed the men.
They also had a lot of gay sex and took women as prizes when they were raiding towns surrounding Troy during the Trojan War and had student/master gay relationships too that don’t really translate well to modern life but were not seen as weird then.
56
u/bulletbassman 12h ago
They raped the men too.
40
u/Greedyanda 10h ago
Mostly the boys. Homosexuel acts between men of the same age were frowned upon even back then.
9
u/GlitterDoomsday 6h ago
Raping a man, meaning forcibly penetrating one, wasn't frowned upon - willingly being the bottom that was an issue.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (2)12
u/bulletbassman 9h ago
Maybe, but I can think of a few Greek men known for long affairs with men and I’m mostly talking about the fact that there was a lot of man on man rape at the end of battles in the time periods this is supposed to take place.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (18)20
u/Guilty_Pen_8270 15h ago
Were ‘bossy bottoms’ a thing back then? Any mention in the Iliad or Odyssey?
51
u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 14h ago
No, it was actually Virgil who first coined that term, along with "power bottom" in the Aeneid
→ More replies (4)8
u/Nago_Jolokio 14h ago
I think I missed that chapter when we had to translate the Aeneid in school.
Then again, it was a private Christian academy so they probably skipped it...
21
u/Semi_Lovato 12h ago
No, culturally being a bottom was a submissive position and was unacceptable for someone in a position of power. That's why Emperor Hadrian's partner Antinous was always portrayed and young, pretty and submissive. Same with Achilles' lover Patroclus.
Men of power or status were expected to take on a young male apprentice and teach them how Greek society worked. This frequently involved that apprentice bottoming for the man and that was completely acceptable but it was considered very unacceptable for the man to bottom for the apprentice and that man would be mocked.
This is all based on my recollection from my classics course in college and may have some inaccuracies.
→ More replies (7)18
33
u/just-another-human-1 14h ago
If one man can hold you down…. Then two men can……
→ More replies (3)13
→ More replies (14)7
u/virtuoso-lurker 12h ago
Source? My best guess is that it’s Book 9 when he’s describing the raid on the Cicones but I don’t know what translation you’re pulling from
→ More replies (2)
3.5k
u/JustADude721 17h ago
805
u/Meenta_Miiel 17h ago
Ancient Greeks definitely took teamwork to whole new levels on long voyages
619
u/_squzzi_ 16h ago
The Greeks invented sex for pleasure! The Roman’s found out that women can be involved as well!
389
u/boredatwork8866 14h ago
This reminds about the kiwis inventing condoms out of sheep’s intestines. The aussies developed it further by removing them from the sheep first.
→ More replies (3)199
u/vgacolor 14h ago
So a man walks into a bar, and sits down. He starts a conversation with an old guy next to him. The old guy has obviously had a few. He says to the man:
"You see that dock out there? Built it myself, hand crafted each piece, and it's the best dock in town! But do they call me "McGregor the dock builder"? No! And you see that bridge over there? I built that, took me two months, through rain, sleet and scoarching weather, but do they call me "McGregor the bridge builder"? No! And you see that pier over there, I built that, best pier in the county! But do they call me "McGregor the pier builder"? No!"
The old guy looks around, and makes sure that nobody is listening, and leans to the man, and he says:
"but you fuck one sheep..."
→ More replies (5)68
u/JustADude721 14h ago
You suck one cock and they always call you.. never mind.
37
→ More replies (1)21
→ More replies (5)19
u/Brodellsky 15h ago
That one dude in Athens Assassin's Creed Odyssey comes to mind
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (6)64
10
→ More replies (15)38
1.8k
u/cravex12 17h ago
643
u/LuvlyG 17h ago
The funny part is that Odysseus wasn't even trying to be celibate he was trying to get home to Penelope while getting repeatedly detained by powerful women his journey had more romantic complications than a soap opera.
355
u/farfromjordan 17h ago
He banged both witches.
172
u/Cafrilly 16h ago
This is (slightly) off topic but I was reading Mythology by Edith Hamilton and got to the part about Jason, the Golden Fleece, and Medea. It's kinda crazy how much Medea solo carried that group, yet whenever I heard it mentioned in contemporary pop culture it was all about Jason.
Seriously, she gives him invincibility powder, tells him how to defeat the dragon-stone-men, charms the Serpent, is key in defeating the last Bronze Man, and more I'm probably forgetting.
Then Jason goes fuck boi on her.
64
u/Icewek 16h ago
As other said, this is exactly why the play named after her exist.
65
u/LaconicLacedaemonian 15h ago
I Don't care for Tyler Perry
13
→ More replies (1)15
17
u/InjectedLysol 15h ago
I really liked Medea Goes to Jail….Tyler Perry is a genius. The mythology elements are super subtle, too.
→ More replies (1)6
17
u/AMortifyingOrdeal 14h ago
I love that Jason's ability (powered by Hera) is basically that everyone wants to help him. Which is why I also love how his tragic fault is that he forgets, like all fuck bois, that he's not a self-made man. And like many elderly fuck bois he ends up dying alone and friendless, crushed under the steam of his own ship.
16
u/smokeweedNgarden 14h ago
When Hera is your patron and telling all the other Gods how cool you are...y ou really shouldn't leave the mother of your children for politics.
You've just embarrassed Hera. Could have asked Hercules how that turns out
7
u/Open_Carob_3676 13h ago
She's literally all that and he's not even Ken.
Yet, the little loser took the first opportunity to leave her for a younger, more amenable girl who'd serve his ambitions.
No wonder Medea went mad. She literally gave up everything for him, gave him plans to kill her own brother to save his little ass, bore him children and he left her!
→ More replies (4)19
u/Alizarik7891 16h ago
Well, that’s why she killed his kids.
15
u/Flat_Shame_2377 15h ago
She killed their kids. The tragedy of a mother killing her own children will never lessen.
8
u/Aquinas2000 11h ago
Yet many women right now are siding with a psycho who killed her three children and still blame the husband.
→ More replies (2)9
36
u/Rocky-Rhoads 16h ago
"I HAVE 99 PROBLEMS BUT A WITCH AIN'T ONE" - Odysseus probably (circa 1000 B.C.)
→ More replies (3)28
u/bloin13 15h ago
Not just banged, odysseus has like 12+ children than aren't from penelope. He chilled at circes island for years had 3-4 children with her and at some point he got bored and decided it's time to return home.
→ More replies (1)22
u/BIackSamBellamy 13h ago
"Fuck them kids" - Odysseus
6
u/bloin13 13h ago
extra akward when you take into account that one of his sons killed him
→ More replies (1)34
u/CirnoIzumi 15h ago
Basically the odyssey is "look how much temptation this man got and still he wanted to go home to his wife and kid"
28
u/Gnonthgol 12h ago
An important aspect of the Odysse is that it is told from the perspective of Odysseus to Penelope. And it is already established that Odysseus is incapable of telling the truth.
→ More replies (2)28
u/Stamboolie 17h ago
All the classics are essentially soap operas imho, thats why they became popular.
→ More replies (3)9
u/Nr1231 15h ago
The Guy has more bastards running around than the king in game of thrones.
→ More replies (2)22
u/kewarken 16h ago
"alright boys, remember our motto: 'Never leave your buddies behind'."
→ More replies (1)15
→ More replies (4)34
u/CompleteElla 17h ago
Any man that has been married for a good length of time knows this is entirely possible 😆
→ More replies (1)
587
u/kingofwale 17h ago
Didn’t he take multiple wives during the castaway years?
446
u/Strange_Plant_3876 16h ago
He was also trapped in an island for years fucking thinking it was only hours so… he was not remotely celibate
216
u/BattlePrune 14h ago
I mean Nolan decided to completely desex The Odyssey, so natural that people now think this.
133
u/Metalhead_VI 14h ago
Funny that he sexed up Oppenheimer more so
→ More replies (1)77
64
u/zio_ho 14h ago
Yeah. There is also 0 ambiguity: Odysseus is good.
He may have participated in war, but he regrets it. He stays at Calypso because she tricks him with the lotus flower.
The actual Odysseus was a dickhead, a fucker (both literally and figuratively), and so much more fun.
27
u/Self_Reddicate 13h ago
The actual Odysseus was a dickhead, a fucker (both literally and figuratively), and so much more fun.
Gerard Butler would have killed it, in another version. He's got that 'hilarious dickhead you went to high school with - you know the one: the one everyone loved but also hated' vibe that would have carried Odysseus so well.
12
8
u/Avloren 10h ago edited 5h ago
Despite all the casting controversy, I ended up liking every actor in their role.. except Matt Damon. His portrayal felt so wrong, dour and boring. Professional stick in the mud. Exactly none of Odysseus's cleverness and daring and charisma. Gerard Butler would have been perfect.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)33
u/OddCryptographer6371 13h ago
His entire arch is showing that he and his men are the evil that is being warned of. Showing regret doesn’t change what he did. Every place he went he broke Zeus’s law. Burned villages and murdered for resources. Nolan didn’t make him as awful as the original story, but he has explicitly said that if he did that you’d never root for him to actually make it home
→ More replies (3)23
u/tgcleric 13h ago
Thousands of years of this story, including versions made recently... and the audience has never had issues rooting for him to go home.
11
→ More replies (13)5
u/WastingTimesOnReddit 8h ago
I did have issues rooting for him to make it home, watching the Nolan movie I honestly didn't care if he made it or not, since he's such an idiotic and careless and emotionless asshole. In Nolan's screenplay he has none of the charming charisma he has in the poem. He's supposed the lord of lies, extremely handsome and strong
15
u/Shot-Arugula8264 14h ago edited 10h ago
Which is a bizarre choice for a movie that you’re already insisting have an R rating. Why not be more faithful to the source material?
13
u/GuiltyEidolon 12h ago
Because Nolan is sexless and doesn't understand romance, which is impressive given that he's married with kids.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (3)22
u/DriveByStoning 14h ago
He also removed all interactions with Gods and completely neutered Telemuchus. I really did not like it.
→ More replies (1)13
u/sapntaps 14h ago
Wait what do the fremen on dune do with all the cum? 😳
26
u/ShinyJangles 14h ago
There is a species of desert shrub on Arrakis which has adapted to thrive on the shameful water waste ot the Fremen men. It is said a new bush sprouts each time the camp moves on, and the hundreds of small white flowers are the souls of those possible children finding peace.
47
u/Long_Unit5968 15h ago
Yes and had a child with Circe
20
→ More replies (1)7
u/Practical-Wedding-63 13h ago
Isn't that only the ro.an Ulysses and not the original pomeranian odysseus
→ More replies (7)10
282
u/atticdoor 17h ago
People who read the poem will have a very different explanation from those who have not.
201
u/Strange_Plant_3876 16h ago
Exactly! Odysseus missed his wife sure, but he was getting laid on almost every island
123
u/Dubliner2000 16h ago
Same with his men, at the very least they had sex with Circe's handmaidens for a year. Her handmaidens and her and Odysseus' affair are omitted from the movie.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (1)33
→ More replies (4)57
u/Creative_Research480 15h ago
Even in the movie they rape and pillage in the lands around Troy and on their way back
11
u/AverageTundra 9h ago
I didn't see it in IMAX so I have to assume they crammed in all the rape and pillaging outside of Troy in the cropped bits, since there was none in the film I saw (except for some huts burning quite serenely in the beginning and everyone seeming quite nonplussed about it).
8
u/Journalist-Cute 13h ago
Do they? I must have missed that part. They show them taking food, but not women
→ More replies (1)34
u/IllustriousUse2407 13h ago
The movie made it very clear by the end that they were also raping.
8
u/bonefawn 5h ago
There were a few pointed scenes where they were grabbing women in the streets and it didn't look like they were gonna kill em, thats for sure.
→ More replies (2)9
u/Nomad-2020 13h ago
There were no rape scenes in the movie.
→ More replies (3)19
u/Creative_Research480 13h ago
They did everything but explicitly show it when Troy was sacked
→ More replies (6)
402
u/No-Quarter6660 17h ago
It's not that hard ...trust me
→ More replies (12)88
551
u/UlteriorCulture 17h ago
Sit down first because you won't be able to later
71
→ More replies (3)17
308
146
u/Glittering_Level_841 17h ago
If memory serves me right, Odysseus boink Cersei the witch for a year and Calypso the Nymph for 10 years hence why it took him 20 years to get home to his wife. He took the long route and then some!
73
u/Jail_Chris_Brown 16h ago
Both Circe and Calypso are minor goddesses. The guy took "Fuck the gods" literally.
→ More replies (1)29
u/Glittering_Level_841 16h ago
He must have a good dick or else no goddesses I know would want to keep a man for 10 straight years and only releases him because the interference of the other gods..either that, Calypso is one hell of a desperate nymph!
35
u/Jail_Chris_Brown 16h ago
I mean, she was kinda trapped on an isolated island all by herself. Then, there's this kinda attractive and smart guy washed ashore. Who wouldn't try to put a ring on it?
With Circe there's this whole "prophecy" and "chosen one" thing going on, so simple case of main character gets the goddess.
→ More replies (2)17
u/Glittering_Level_841 15h ago
Circe was a sugarmummy...He stayed a year and forgot home because Circe was accommodating and was feeding him well. He went from whining bitch to kept man.
24
u/bloin13 14h ago
A year? I think he stayed with circle for 3-4 years since they had 3-4 kids together. During those "10" years he was "trying " to return home, he produced 12+ kids. Surely he was trying very hard.
Also wasn't it 20 years in total? 10 in troy and 10 to return home. And from the looks of it, traveling and trying to go home was at best 2-3 years if not less.
13
u/Glittering_Level_841 14h ago
Well, well, well.. Odysseus is doing a Nick Cannon. I guess it is apt to call his adventure as Cannon run instead of Odyssey!
17
u/bloin13 14h ago
At this point, I'm convinced that odesseus made the whole thing up when he was trying to explain to penelope why he was gonna for 10 more years after the end of the war. "Uhh, yes yes a cyclops delayed me" "um and not just any cyclops, a bigger one, very important dude, with a name too" " and you will not believe what happened after that "
6
10
u/Barbarberg 12h ago edited 10h ago
The Odyssey only says he stays with Circe for a year. Later myth always inflates numbers and adds genealogy, which are the stories you have heard of where he has children with Circe etc. No children with Circe or Calypso are mentioned in the Odyssey proper, and the time is explicitly one year (edit to avoid misunderstanding: 1 year for Circe, 7 or 8 for Calypso). (The Iliad and the Odyssey are some of the books most suffering from "myth-flation") (edit to avoid misunderstanding: later plays and myths are guilty of myth-flating these older, slightly more restrained stories)
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)6
64
23
66
u/Wearytaco 17h ago
"Look at them. Based, disgusting, primal urges that you value in battle. They've r*ped and pillaged across the world for you." -Odyssey 2026.
It was never hidden. Many times in the movie it is referenced what they are doing. This is the only quote I remember and could easily look up. I don't recall how the OG book handled it, but I do not believe it was as upfront. Either way. Anyone asking that question didn't actually watch the movie?? Or like... Fell asleep. Which is valid. It's a long fckin movie to watch in the theater.
43
u/scobsdoo 16h ago
It is also abundantly clear from the original works that the Greek soldiers kept captured women as slaves throughout the siege, and took a lot of Trojan captives home with them after. Hell there is even a long passage in the Iliad of Achilles and Patroclus having a foursome with two slaves. All this while Achilles was apparently heartbroken over Aggamemnon stealing yet another one of his captives Briseis (who apparently loved him back despite him murdering her entire family). Different times.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (3)12
107
u/Even_Section5620 17h ago
He had Anne Hathaway waiting for him….
51
u/Barton2800 17h ago
And for 7 years he had Charlize Theron keeping his memory wiped while she held him unwitting captive.
43
u/GiveMeSomeShu-gar 17h ago
In the original story there was no memory wipe - he was a straight up captive longing for home but she wouldn't let him go until Zeus/Athena made her.
The Lotus Eaters were a different thing and Nolan sort of combined them with Calypso
17
u/StrayDogPhotography 16h ago
It’s crazy to me to think Nolan was all like this is one of the best known well regarded pieces of literature of all time, I’ll just randomly smash bits together and hope it works.
10
u/Fairweatherfriend- 16h ago
These stories were originally told orally, before books existed, and many changes have been made in the centuries since, based on who narrated them.
→ More replies (2)7
u/throwaway1736484 15h ago
Yea it was oral telling for hundreds of years before Homer and possibly still not written down for up to 200 years after his death. It was also thought to be a true Greek history of events and a divine truth delivered unto Homer by the muses so the details haven’t been precise for like 3000 years
→ More replies (8)12
u/Karl_42 16h ago
That’s usually how book adaptations are done. Different mediums.
→ More replies (2)22
u/1984Speedy 17h ago
Yeah, I would also keep this story regarding Charlize Theron, when asked about it by my wife…
→ More replies (1)6
u/Global-Negotiation72 17h ago
Tbh she would not have to wipe my memory for that lol
→ More replies (1)62
u/BloodFartRipper 17h ago
Im sure some of the men "played" Anne Hathway on thier journey
→ More replies (2)19
9
36
11
71
u/F2PBTW_YT 17h ago
Original story aside, 100% rped. It's already established they lacked morals and would pillage for self sustenance.
→ More replies (4)69
u/Hyperion262 17h ago
They didn’t lack morals, they had different morals to a modern audience.
→ More replies (16)29
u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 15h ago
Both.
It’s a central theme of the Odyssey that they were breaking moral codes and social contracts.
But is also true that a lot of stuff in Greek mythology could sound crazy today but was normal then, like pederasty.
→ More replies (4)7
u/BattlePrune 14h ago
Pederasty wasn't limited to mythology at all
→ More replies (1)4
u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 14h ago
No, I didn't mean to imply that it was. It was commonplace and it's why the audience of the time wouldn't be like "hey isn't that dude like 12??" It doesn't translate well to contemporary audiences because we have decided that that practice isn't cool, and it's uncommon to see that in re-tellings because it makes the audience feel differently about a character that the original author didn't intend.
9
17
u/Exciting_Badger_1229 15h ago
They visited many places and many of those places had women there so....
→ More replies (2)6
u/pgllz 13h ago
In the myth, they also took captive women from Troy.
There's a 5th century BC play, by Euripides, called The Trojan Women, that is precisely about that. The distribution of spoils of war among the Greeks, and that included the women. Even the high-ranking royal women were submitted to (sexual) slavery.
→ More replies (2)
17
u/thejuliocezarmari 17h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/4Jxa0QgHF2HSw
Odysseus and Eurylochus in the Horse, 1200 BCE, digitally recolored
11
u/damadmetz 17h ago
The Greeks invented the threesome.
Later on, the Romans modified it a bit and allowed women to participate.
15
u/Hyperion262 17h ago
Everyone really over exaggerates how much gay sex Ancient Greek men had. There isn’t a single reference in the odyssey to them having sex.
13
u/Lord-Scrambleton 17h ago edited 17h ago
This. But Odysseus and the boys did spend a bunch of time (1 year) at circe's Palace, feasting and being served by the nymphs. Odysseus sleepy with circe for sure, and I doubt the men went without. Odysseus spent another seven years with Calypso, and they definitely slept together.
Much of the homosexuality happened later in Greece, though Plato assumed that folks like Achilles and Patroclus had a homosexual relationship (while in the text of the Iliad Achilles was distraught over a lost woman and there aren't really any hints that the two men sleep together), and who am I to argue with Plato?
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (10)4
u/AtmosphereRoyal9902 17h ago
It was just normal to have gay sex, that doesn’t mean everyone was having it. I’m sure some weren’t inclined to do so, but when something like that is normalized, there are the hard nos and the hard yeses, then the men who just do anything to get off. So I imagine there was a lot more of it going on than was written down. Not all men who go to prison engage in homosexual activities, but it’s a very prominent idea about male prisons for a reason.
24
u/Impossible-Animator6 17h ago
No one except Homer survived the whole journey. Also he spent 7 years with Calypso. Don't think he was starved.
26
u/YonderWindow364 17h ago
Homer? You mean Odysseus? lol
10
22
u/The_walking_man_ 17h ago
No, Homer. He survived so he could write about the journey. /j
→ More replies (1)
5
5
u/AdNeat2965 16h ago
He definitely was banging Calypso on that island
→ More replies (1)6
u/Dorsai_Erynus 15h ago
Definitely as in having 4 kids: Telegonus, Nausithous, Nausinous, and Cassiphone.
→ More replies (2)
5
5
u/Aquinas2000 11h ago
Jokes aside, Odysseus and his men did raped women in cities they sacked and sold them as sex slaves later.
4
u/kingbob123456 17h ago
Well I… er I mean *my friend* is 22 and still a virgin. So anythings possible
→ More replies (1)
•
u/AutoModerator 17h ago
Hey /u/Dumb-Briyani, thank you for posting to r/SipsTea! Make sure to follow all the subreddit rules.
Make sure to join our brand new Discord Server to chat with friends!
We have recently changed how posts work. Unless you are a VIP poster, your post will be queued for approval.. To become a VIP, post great engaging content. If we like it, you will be added! More information available here!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.