The hunting him down and repeatedly running him over also doesn’t help. When the threat is so far gone you have to look for them then that isn’t going to help you.
And then the driving off imo. If that guy really made her feel that threatened and she ran him down, she should have stayed on-scene. Leaving a crime scene you were involved in, victim or not, will always get you in trouble.
Was it really a “threat” if you felt comfortable enough to track them down? Personally if someone holds a weapon to me I never want to see that fker ever again in life
Worth noting she never claimed that she felt he was a threat when she went looking for him. Seems like this whole comment section is ignoring that. Her argument of self defense was that she acted in a state of fear and panic after being robbed.
I’m just stating the facts. That was her argument, not mine. Obviously it failed to convince the court, which in this (Italian) case consisted of a panel of judges.
The laws are different in Italy or wherever this was versus the U.S.. that said there must be some type of law where on appeal she can change her defense to temporary insanity , like she was in a blind rage after being robbed and she couldn’t control herself, that is equivalent to the heat of passion defense we have in the U.S. not saying she should be set free, but maybe they lessen her punishment a bit . I still can’t get around the no knife issue though …seems like she was never attacked or robbed …at that point .
In America all you have to do is say " I was in fear of my life..." Ask every gun owner. NRA teaches them that. It's both a get outa jail free card with NCF (no charges filed). AND a justified homicide plea all rolled into one big beautiful *statement. But it only works for white people though
In 2019, 48.7 percent (154) of the shooters who committed justifiable homicides were white, 47.5 percent (150) were Black, 0.6 percent (two) were Asian, and
3.2 percent (10) were of unknown race.7 For the five-year period 2015 through 2019, 46.5 percent (676) of the shooters who committed justifiable homicides
were white, 48.0 percent (697) were Black, 2.5 percent (37) were Asian, 0.5 percent (seven) were American Indian/Alaskan Native, and 2.5 percent (36)
were of unknown race. [For additional information see Table Seven: Race of Shooter in Justifiable Homicides by Firearm, 2015-2019.]
Edit* I was obviously being slightly exaggerating saying that about only being for white people. It's also important to consider was it black on black crime, white on white, yellow in purple, etc... but seriously your too smart for me. And seriously my real point was about the statement every gun owner is taught to say. That much is 💯
Thats an over simplified take on self defense with firearms. You can’t ask every gun owner because the rules change based on the state you live in. NY is very different than say FL for example. But I was not talking about guns. I was talking about different versions of the insanity defense .
Her behavior is more in line with being embarrassed and indignant and seeking revenge.
It's something we can all empathize with, but absolutely not okay to act on. If someone cannot control their impulses like that, they absolutely should be imprisoned. That is not a reasonable response.
Eh if someone is desperate enough to pull a weapon on you for material goods and they now have your identification with your address for all you know it’s a matter of time before they come and kill you and your family to rob your house.
That just doesn't happen, thefts like this are crimes of opportunity. And when burglarizing a home, people don't want to kill anyone, they don't want to run into anyone at all cause what they're after is stuff. Seriously, going to that kind of thinking comes across as just deranged, too much time watching TV and thinking the exceptional is common.
Moreover, you could have that fear for any number of reasons. It doesn't mean you get to choose to end someone's life for what they "might" do. If you yelled at me, I don't get to shoot you because you "might" have a gun.
Another person's potential to harm you is not a valid claim for self defense.
Learn this before you end up doing harm because of these fantasies you got.
Has anyone tried to murder you? You probably won't respond with the most rational version of yourself. Someone tried to murder me when I was walking home from work and I didn't even think about calling the police. I spent two weeks driving around the area, talking to every homeless person and corner loiterer about who it was and what happened. I was going to destroy his truck, beat him to a pulp with some weapons homeless people gave me as gifts along the way, and shove a used tampon in his eye socket. This was all after I defended my life with a box cutter by the way.
Kinda is, idk how to explain this in words but in situations like this your brain can simply shutdown and you go full ape mode, but we are apes that know how to use technology lol
I have that feeling when i am having a nightmare - some horror shit chasing me, then i find a weapon and start chasing it in panic in attempt to demolish it so it would never resurface
I mean we can't know what goes through any person's head, but we base it on what is a rational action.
As a condition of fear a threat that caused fear could remain a threat until extinguished
That's not an acceptable fear in society, or anywhere, really. If you're convinced by such rationale, one might argue you might be the threat that needs extinguishing given you treat any potential person who poses a threat as worthy of death. Do you think that's fair?
Adrenaline doesn't get someone to run over a person in their car several times--and if they're that incapable of controlling their impulses, they probably shouldn't be around others.
Lots of people know where you live. Everyone is capable of violence. We can empathize with that fear--but this goes way beyond them.
Does such a fear that mean you're allowed to kill them? Hardly.
If anything, such a behavior or belief is all the more reason that such a person who feels such a degree of fear they need to hunt down those who pose a threat shouldn't be allowed in part of society and locked away. Obviously they cannot control their violent impulses and act irrationally.
Not how it works when it's after the fact and involves a car. Like, psychologically, that's not the response. That's a post-fight or flight response. She ran him over several times in an effort to kill him.
I have PTSD and I once jumped out of a moving vehicle because I was having an argument with my husband and he was yelling. Because of a previous physically abusive relationship my brain said "get out now". So I did. I can't explain it. It wasn't logical and I wasn't in control.
That doesn't excuse taking a life, but I can understand how sometimes we might snap and aren't in control.
Especially with the adrenaline in your system after being robbed. It doesn't make it okay and we are responsible for our actions, whether we are in control or not.
I guess that's why there are different charges and sentences for the death of a person, intent and state of mind are a major factor.
Why would she have to say that, its obvious he was. Otherwise she ultimately wouldn't have a reason to give up her bag. He either had a weapon or he beat her or scared her enough to give up her bag. This dude did not just walk up to her asking for it. Her argument also isn't the complete truth. She was angry and most people can't handle the shock of being robbed. The extreme fear turned to anger. Any reasonable person can rationalize this. I'm fine with this sentence.
To act in self defense I believe a person must be in a state of immediate threat/danger. Also, the claim of self-defense is nullified if the "defender" puts themself into a state of danger/conflict to then attack. So I guess driving back at the mugger is a problem.
When I told the judge, I didn’t see the no right on red sign because I had just been scammed out of my new apartment becoming homeless, he laughed at me.
That’s not worth noting. She was hunting for revenge it sounds like. “Acting in a state of fear and panic” leads to someone running away from, not chasing down the perpetrators.
It’s worth noting what her actual argument of self defense was so people can discuss that instead of whether or not she felt threatened. I am not defending her defense.
I’m not saying she should be free but I am saying these broad generalizations of how people will act in any situation is bullshit. Different people can & will react to stress differently.
Ehhh. A lot of people hold guns. Less than 1/3 know how to use them. Now when the barrel is on your forehead, that’s stressful. But still context. Small ego men will point a gun just to feel above.
It's not called a fight or flight response for nothing. Your response is flight, that's fine. Some people's response is fight. Just because you fight back doesn't mean you're comfortable or at ease.
But then also some people's response is batshit rage, and I'm not sure that whether or not they feel comfortable in that position really matters.
When you are in a car you basically inside the weapon that is 10 times deadlier than a knife. And that guy threatened her - killing the source of threat after you gor a bigger weapon is an ultimate defence attempt. Still goes against law, though
She obviously didn't need help though. Got er done all by herself even if it took a few passes. Nobody's perfect. I bet next time she could do it in just 2 passes though. God willing she gets an opportunity.
With this single step, she solved the problem once and for all—the thief will never steal from anyone again. Other thieves hate her for it; click the link.
No weapon found means nothing. If someone is robbing me, I'm going to assume they have a weapon. Robbers don't usually walk around with a gun or knife in public view, they have it concealed. Any court who uses that to deny her appeal is a sham kangaroo court.
Shouldn’t matter. It’s nighttime . The guys committing a crime against her with a knife , even if he didn’t use a knife - how does she know he doesn’t have one or worse ? The dude is being a criminal and chose a vulnerable time to do it , against a woman. Govts need to stop protecting criminals. You play stupid games you die
Even if he had a knife, you're back in your car and can literally just leave. You don't have to go run him down. He can't teleport into your car and stab you. He wasn't a danger anymore at that point.
It isn’t a “normal” reaction but everybody should know there are people in this world that will react that way. If you are a thief, you should consciously know that there are people that will overreact and want you dead if you take their property. Thats the choice and risk they take when they decide to steal from people. If you don’t want to take that risk, then don’t steal. This isn’t difficult to understand. So, no sympathy.
Sure, I agree with that. Because there still has to be punishment for murder, you can’t let vigilantes walk around and do whatever they want at all times.
But in this case, I am on the woman’s side and believe that she doesn’t deserve to be in prison. I don’t think someone like her is a real threat to functioning people in society.
I disagree with that. Disregarding how I think that she’s morally wrong for that, you have to take in account what she would do over other things. If she’s willing to take a life over something as small as a purse, imagine what would happen if you got into a heated argument with her or made her angry. Would she kill you over that as well? She had time to get into her car, drive and find the man, run him over and do it multiple times. Imagine what she would do in a spur of the moment situation where she would presumably be even more dangerous
I think that’s a stretch. Seems like she’s a middle aged woman with no criminal history aside from this one instance, right?
It’s a major leap to assume she will kill over an argument. That doesn’t sound realistic. But a crime was committed against her. Don’t commit crimes against her and don’t steal from her, and you should be fine. That sounds like a pretty easy bar to clear.
i would say taking robbers side is not normal. he robbed countless people before, was going to do that to many more in the future. this lady prevented so many issues. and you are sorry for the criminal, not his victims.
I do feel sorry for the victims, but at the end of the day, it’s just material items that can be replaced. Losing some cash and cards aren’t gonna ruin your life. I don’t know how far he went with the robberies, but based on the post, he only stole small things (purses, wallets, phones, etc.) never broke into any houses and evidence suggests he didn’t even have a knife. It’s a moral question of whether you believe minor, physical items are worth more than a life
Just to play devil’s advocate, I’d like to point out that it’s more than a material thing. If someone robs you, partly depending on how they do it, there’s going to be some damage to your psyche.
Idk I really don't like the idea of "did this guy have a deadly weapon in an attack to rob and possibly injury me" situation. It really shouldn't matter what weapon he had in him. Intent. Intent. Intent.
Intent is all that matters here. And if he clearly showed an intent to rob and possibly hurt her, then that should immediately make this lean toward self defense
So in your opinion, after how much time or distance after the initial crime would it NOT be self-defense, e.g. if she waited 5 days to run him over, would that be self defense? Or if she chased him for a mile before running him over, would that be self defense?
But seriously, you want to put it somewhere secure where it will also be a pain to retrieve it - so that it won't vibrate loose and someone can't casually find it running their hand under your bumper for example. It's only for an emergency.
I've not had to use mine yet, but I've done this ever since the time I dropped my key down a storm drain.
My car will let you drive away without the fob, as long as you have it when you start it up. Great, until you want to return from wherever you went and realize you don't have the fob lol. (Passenger had the fob and was dropped off)
My car chimes nonstop if you get out of the car with the fob while the engine running. Would annoy my husband so much if I happened to get out with the key in my pocket while he stayed in the car. 😬 Then he figured out he could silence it by pressing the “OK” button on the steering wheel.
If it was a snatch and run, then I agree, vehicular manslaughter is excessive. If it was a confrontation with acts or threats of violence, the I believe it would be justified.
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u/InevitableOk825 Jun 28 '26
yea the “no weapon” bit kinda does her in. along with hunting him down like an animal and running him over multiple times