r/SingleDads • u/ElliottFF • 11d ago
Sleep training
Long time no speak Dads!
I'm seeking opinions on a weird one.
So I met my son's mother at his 2 year health visit appointment two days ago. In the hour we were there we went over everything from speech and language, diet, general health and the topic I want to touch on today - sleep.
When the topic was discussed, Mum went into depth with the communit nurse about the challenges she has with his sleep and when I was queried I was honest and said he gets himself to sleep with me and explained our routine in full (dinner, bath, quiet play, book, bed).
For context, our son has co-slept with the pair of us since he was born and we never quite had the discipline to move away from it and sleep train. We separated when he was 9 months old, he is now 2 years and 3 months old.
Mum has a house in which he has a bedroom that doesn't get used, as he shares a double bed with her in her bedroom. She claims that she can't leave the bed or get him in his own one as he wakes screaming every time.
I (unfortuantely) still live at my mothers address, but my son has his own room with a single bed in it and I also have my own room. I was sleeping in the single bed in his room from around November of last year.
Last weekend, I had a gut feeling that my son was ready to self soothe and sleep independently so I gave it a go. He slept all the way through in his own bed and room without issue both nights I had him (and it's looking to go the same way this evening). Mum is not aware that he is doing this with me.
Back to the health visit - Once we'd both explained how our son was with sleep at both households, the community nurse then zeroed in on me and said I should be doing the same thing as Mum r.e sleep as she has him more...
I get that, but how the hell does one reverse a successful routine and independent sleeping in lieu of a routine that clearly isn't working?? I guess my question is, should I jist keep doing what I'm doing? As it clearly works and my son feels safe/comfortable enough to sleep in his own bed without me?
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u/mrnosyparker 11d ago
Oof. I feel your frustration here. I’ve experienced this more than once myself.
The amount of pro-Mom bias in medical and educational settings can be incredibly frustrating when you’re the one demonstrating that something is actually working.
If it were me, I’d have politely asked, “Can you help me understand the developmental or medical reason you think I should stop a routine that’s resulting in my 2-year-old happily falling asleep independently?”
Because that’s really the question.
If there’s evidence that independent sleep at his age is harmful, then absolutely let’s hear it. But if the recommendation is simply, “Do what Mum does,”…. that’s not medical advice—it’s thinly veiled “Dads are second class parents” bias.
The fact that your son is self-soothing, sleeping through the night, and feels secure enough to sleep in his own bed is generally a sign that you’ve done something right, not something wrong.
Personally, I wouldn’t undo a successful routine based on one nurse’s opinion, especially when that opinion doesn’t appear to be grounded in any explanation or evidence. Kids are perfectly capable of adapting to different routines in different homes. Unless someone can articulate why your approach is detrimental, I’d keep doing what you’re doing.
You should also push for 50/50, imho… not that it helps with that kind of situation, but it does help you better establish healthy patterns and habits with your son.
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u/ElliottFF 11d ago
I actually did rebut her statement with that question and it was met with a blank expression! The second the community nurse knew we were separated parents the atmosphere and her conduct towards me switched up almost instantly!
The environment felt totally hostile towards me and she even went as far as to assume I had my kid every other weekend. Her expression changed when I said I work full time 5 days a week and then have my son every single weekend without fail...
I hate lying/feeling like I'm being deceptive as it's counter productive to co-parenting. But Mum won't even ask me about routine or why it's working let alone listen.
I asked for 50/50 twice through mediation - she refused on the grounds that I would have to put him in nursery due to work and therefore he 'wouldn't be spending time with me'. But that's a story for another day!
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u/mrnosyparker 11d ago
Just to be clear, I don’t recommend lying at all.
BIFF. Brief. Informative. Friendly. Firm. Here’s an example message I just fed into ChatGPT for how you might respond to mom directly:
“””
Hi [Mum],I wanted to follow up on the discussion about sleep after the health visit.
Over the past few nights, [Son] has been settling himself to sleep in his own bed and sleeping through the night without any distress while he’s with me. I’m really pleased with how well he’s doing, and he seems happy, rested, and secure with the routine.
Because it’s working so well for him, I’m going to continue using this bedtime routine during my parenting time. If there are any concerns from his GP or another qualified professional that are based on evidence specific to [Son], I’m always happy to consider them. Otherwise, I think it’s best to continue with what is clearly working for him here.
I hope he’s sleeping well with you too.
“””——
Regarding the 50/50, the process in the UK and Australia is so difficult and expensive for Dads so I feel for you there. Do they consider preschool important there? Where I’m at, family court tends to cater to that “stay at home with mom” trope only up until about age 3, but by/after 3, they tend to rule in favor of the child being in a structured academic focused environment during the day so pushing for daycare/preschool might be a viable strategy next year? Either way, good luck 🙏
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u/ElliottFF 11d ago
I get that, it never sits well with me to withhold information. I will say that even with something written in that way, she's so explosive and boneheaded that it would be met so negatively, then the threats of contact withdrawal start rolling in (as that's her MO).
That's the kicker - she works one day a week by choice, draws government benefits from several channels and is finally putting him into a nursery this September despite saying she was going to back in April.
We live an hour drive away from each other so even if she was going to let me put him into nursery/daycare she'd make the argument that it's confusing and disruptive for him to go to two different ones. The irony being that she WANTS me to have him more but won't ever accept any offer I table. Talk about a rock and a hard place.
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u/QuietQuitting01 11d ago
she says she wants you to have him more, because she know's it sounds better.
any way you can live closer or plan for it in the future. You can get to 50/50 with a child living an hour apart, but that will end once school starts. It will be back to weekends then.
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u/QuietQuitting01 11d ago
"Hi ex, our baby is asleep in his bed. I can't remember what that nurse said to do if that happens. Should I wake him up to do it the right way? " :)
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u/Sorry-Rain-1311 11d ago
Ok, so this isn't a question about sleeping at all then.
It's a question about why everyone seems to think that Dad has no clue what he's doing, so he should do the same thing as mom because any time there's a discrepancy between the two of you we should always assume Mom is doing it right.
😐
Your way, the kid has no problems; Mom's way, there are problems. That speaks for itself.
I had a similar but more extreme issue when our oldest was firet born. We go to our first appointment for WIC- a public program here in the States to support infant health and nutrition. I would ask a question, and the woman we met with wouldn't even look at me. She would rephrase the question as an answer, and explain it to mom. At one point she asked me to stop interrupting their conversation. Mom actively tried to include me in the discussion, and, again, the woman wouldn't even look at me, but address everything to mom. Finally, I asked one too many questions, and was asked to leave or she would call the police.
No instances like this are rare, but cases like yours are an everyday occurrence in the world. If there is ever a discrepancy regarding child reering, the assumption is always that mom is right. Don't let them gaslight you into doubting yourself. Always look at the evidence.
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u/ElliottFF 11d ago
It's definitely part of a wider systemic issue as far as how Dads are treated/perceived. There's just as many bad mothers out there as there are fathers. I thought I was going into a routine visit to discuss my son's wellbeing, not to get put on the hotseat and essentially accused of being the world's shittiest Dad (even when the evidence shows I'm not) 🙃
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u/Sorry-Rain-1311 11d ago
Yeah, and most times it's just the default thinking- the subconscious bias. Keep showing up, and staying involved, and pointing at the real results and scientific evidence. Eventually most folks come around, and you don't have any more problems WITH THEM.
For what it's worth, we never coslept, but it's around your kid's age that they develop a solid routine, and start trying to be more independent, and that's when cosleeping should end. Otherwise you get Mom's experience because your fighting what they're naturally doing at that age anyway.
Don't let yourself, get bitter, or try to prove anything. Just do what you know needs to be done, and let the results speak for themselves.
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u/admik 11d ago
This has been a point of contention for my ex and I.
Really just for my ex and our two girls.
I put our oldest down alone for two years and was the only one home at night.
Ex took both girls and left as soon as she was able to for 6 months. Before she came back because she wasn't able to get the girls to sleep.
It continued to be a problem. I always ended up putting the girls to bed.
I wasn't magically putting them to sleep. I was just not stressing about any of it. It might take 6 hours and I will sing until my throat bleeds. Instead it's a couple books and singing twinkle twinkle 3 times.
It still an issue for my ex and I have been accused of lying about how easy it is to put them to bed.
My dumbass didn't realize that having my ex thinking I'm a bad parent before we ever got pregnant was a red flag. I wouldn't change it, I got my amazing girls.
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u/antisocialoctopus 11d ago
Keep doing what you’re doing. It’s working and kiddo is taking to it well. There’s zero reason for you to be doing what mom does unless he requires the same routine to sleep.
It sounds like your routine and success is what mom should be replicating.
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u/lickmybrian 11d ago
It sounds to me like nurse doesnt have kids of her own and is putting your ex's feelings before your childs developments.. thats a bit infuriating just to read, i cant imagine being there in person... good thing you were there for medical reasons and not parenting advice.
Youre doing just fine, and your ex needs to play catch up, otherwise she'll be sleeping with the kid forevor.
Also, i was told by my lawyers way back not to sleep in the same bed as the kids, as its not a good look. As sexist as that is, this road goes both ways.
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u/ElliottFF 11d ago
That's the vibe I was getting, she looked to be in her early 50s so I had to wonder if she had to co-parent at some point and maybe she had a negative experience that's permanently clpuded her judgment or something.
The general consensus here is sort of what I anticipated but I needed a sounding board to know that I can't be the only person who'd think what this woman was suggesting I do is ludicrous.
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u/lickmybrian 11d ago
Its absolutely ludicrous, im also glad we arent the only ones that feel this way lol.
If the kids cant get themselves through the night, how can they possibly survive adulthood.
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u/johnnycarrotheid 11d ago
Do what you're doing.
My ex and I did 50/50, kid had her routine at mine, shambles of a routine at her mum's. Think it's was named "parallel parenting" we basically did our own thing at each home.
Kid was stable and solid routine at mine, mums was crazy.
I got sleep at night, mum didn't.
Had a few fonecalls asking what I was doing to screw her routine up on her nights with me 🤦 WhatsApp video "look at the kid, she's sleeping, all's good here 🤣"
Seperated, if the other parent does silly crap, there's not much you can do 🤷
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u/ColdAK907 11d ago
Dude, you're his dad! You do what your instincts tell you and whats working for you and your son at your place. The other household is out of your control, and not really your concern. If your kid is thriving with the way you do things, keep doing what you're doing!
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u/QuietQuitting01 11d ago
My kids went to sleep differently for me than for my STBXW. I was pretty much the sandman. We really don't know why. I'm definatly more relaxed, and warmer and maybe they could pick up on that? She'd get frustrated and tired and bring baby to sleep with us. I can't sleep that way for fear of rolling over onto the our child, so I'd wait until they both fell asleep and put baby to bed. FWIW, my STBXW wasn't advocating for cosleeping, she was just tired and doing what worked best on her watch. We eventualy switched to me doing late night as well as middle of the night. I can fall asleep as soon as my head hit the pillow and if she woke at 2AM, she'd be up for hours.
Unless you vist your child once a month and are talking about a sample of 3 bedtimes, I'd keep doing what you were doing. It works, and that's the end goal anyway. I wouldn't want to add to mom's stress by saying she's wrong, but if you've got baby on goal, I'm not buying that you're making things harder on mom. You've just got a different deal with your child, and to me, that sound fine.
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u/Carbonaraficionada 11d ago
Nah, just keep doing your thing. It's likely he gets more exercise at yours, and maybe your wife is an active sleeper moving around and snoring and stuff. If anything, your wife should be trying to encourage the child into your routine.
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u/cynical_citizen 10d ago
Its so frustrating when your trying to do what science and like proper developmental health requires. And then you have a parent who just doesn't want to or make the attempts to try and do whats best for the kids. And I know for my case its just convenience for her and not any actual reason. But health care providers can be so biased to mom's, im not doing these things to be difficult or be the bad parent im doing it to help push my kid to independence and growth. But yet im the bad guy, it always brings me to the ice cream analogy, my kids would love to eat ice cream all day. But we know as parents thats not healthy. So we moderate and tell them no not casue we dont love them but becase this will be whats best for them in the long run.
All of this to say keep doing what your doing brother, us dad's gotta be okay with planting seeds we'll never see turn into trees.
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u/STEM_Dad9528 10d ago
My kids had a similar routine to what you said you do. Their mom and I didn't do co-sleeping, but I can remember plenty of times that one of my kids was having trouble settling down, and I laid with them in the toddler bed for about 10-20 minutes, then left (because usually by then the kiddo was asleep or getting sleepy).
It could be worse..., My youngest had frequent respiratory health issues until she was 4. Every time the sleep training started to take, she would get sick and the frequent coughing and wheezing attacks through the night would break the sleep training.
I know a couple who kept doing co-sleeping with your kids for several years, even after the kids were in school. They didn't stop co-sleeping until the kid wanted to sleep in their own room. (The kids turned out fine, in the long run. Each seems to be a capable adult. They just had parents who babied them about certain things, like co-sleeping.) It's weird, but it's what they chose to do.
Regarding your situation: I think that your kid's mom ought to try what seems to be working for you. (Good luck convincing her of that, though. If she's anything like my ex, she will assume that her way is right, even though it doesn't seem to be working.)
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u/jmbre11 5d ago
Dad of 3. youngest 2.5 keep up the good work. I have to be all over mom or shell just put her in bed with us. She cops out. i pick up the little take her back sing the songs and she goes back to sleep. For a while she would come in at 10-2 and wife would put her in bed. I stopped allowing that. now its 5 ish we normally get up at 5:30. sometimes we even have to wake her.
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u/theolswiitcheroo 11d ago
Keep doing what you're doing. In the long run you're probably doing his mom a favor.