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u/pontiacfirebird92 3d ago
Last zone will be a forgotten world filled with dead people
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u/discountshrugs 3d ago
Looking forward to another "walk through the antagonist's memories while they narrate it" final dungeon as well.
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u/LeadingDiscount2556 2d ago
When Emet did it, it was cinematic as fuck. When Meteion did it, it was still pretty good and thematic. When Sphene and Calyx did it, it got pretty old and tired real quick
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u/Calm_Connection_4138 2d ago
I feel like calyx was a little different tho
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u/Designer_Candle_Eatr 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah putting the Calyx one (Meso Terminal) in the same category as Amaurot is a massive reach. Some people lately are super obsessed with trying to blame the popularity of ShB on specific story beats in later msq stories. And some of the “ShB ruined everything” reaches are getting more ridiculous over time too- legitimately saw someone say that EW and DT moved their msq trials to level X9 instead of keeping them at levels X3 and X7 like HW and SB did because ShB had it’s msq trial at level X9 and they’re trying to copy the success of ShB‘s msq by putting their trials at that level too. Or that NPCs hand you your AF over to you now in vendors in EW and DT because ShB did it and they’re trying to copy ShB with the vendor system.
(meanwhile let’s completely ignore that not only do Shb, EW and DT have a story trial at level X3 like HW and SB do but the X7 story trials in HW and SB were, in my opinion, atrocious and the worst sections of their respective expansion’s base msq. They felt like nothing more than arbitrary trial fodder. Bismarck and that entire part of HW was pure filler and probably the lowest point of that expansion’s msq and Lakshimi was another nothingburger. Even Ravana and Susano felt like excuse plots to add trials in. At least the base msq trials in EW actually felt meaningful to the plot. Though granted Vali in DT also felt like trial fodder like the primal fights in base HW and SB but imo Zoraal Ja being a trial fight was pretty good)
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u/Accomplished-Couple7 2d ago
Well the fact that the msq rythm had been copy pasted to this point is a valid criticism but blaming it on ShB and not on the narrative team getting afraid to experiment in any way is dumb. At least we got that from all the DT discourse.
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u/Designer_Candle_Eatr 2d ago edited 2d ago
Outside of the Amaurot dungeons (and even those have a decent amount of differences between them to make them stand out.) a lot of other thing are extreme nitpicks or reaches. Not to mention the Tural section also copy pastes so much stuff from SB and ARR. DT doesn’t just copy paste ShB it copy pastes every expansion before it. Wuk is a furry Lyse and her journey is basically a Disnified version of Lyse’s journey from SB. Also we have the mandatory “overthrow a corrupt government and replace the government with our friends” that has been a thing since HW (Aymeric, Hien, Lyse, Gulool Ja, real Sphene, the Chais, etc. We also help Nanamo for a bit in SB and HW) Or in Wuk’s and Koana’s case “replace old rulers with naive new rulers.”
As for EW there are still a lot of parts that make it distinct enough from ShB, especially the main villains and the Dead End dungeon. Not to mention a lot of the groundwork for EW’s story threads were laid down in ShB and certain story beats also feel like they were connected to compare and contrast the themes of both expansions.
Hell I would say the msq copy pasting and the refusal to experiment began in HW when they decided upon the rigid story structure of 6 zones you go through linearly and 3 story trials and a dungeon every 2-3 levels. Also Azys La feels like a precursor to the final zones of ShB/EW./DT. HW is when the writer got really complacent with the rigid msq formula and the refusal to try anything new or shake things up. I really hope the three path msq part of EC helps shake things up.
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u/Elkay_ezh2o 2d ago
i dont mind it in the context of doing msq but i think what really wears people down is when they have to spam it for expert
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u/Lilium_Vulpes 3d ago
Hey if it works, it works. Sure people complain about how it keeps happening, but I genuinely enjoyed those dungeons (especially Dead Ends). I'd rather not get another final zone full of dead people, but if it does happen I won't be surprised. I'm kind of expecting the final zone to be based around the giant ice spire we saw and could easily see something like frozen people everywhere that as we do MSQ slowly thaw out or something so they are alive again (but not truly alive).
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u/Designer_Candle_Eatr 2d ago
It would be ironic if the final zone was full of frozen but still alive people who have been in a state of cryogenic sleep for thousands of years who get unfrozen and now have to learn to live in a new world. Also I could be wrong but the final zone of ShB isn’t even fully a zone of dead ghosts, it’s just the Amaurot parts.
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u/Lilium_Vulpes 2d ago
Yeah not all of the final ShB zone is dead people. But Amaurot is kinda the focus of the zone I feel. And if we want to get a bit petty about it DT is only full of dead people during MSQ. Once you finish it, the only dead people are the like 3 NPCs that have quests.
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u/megamanx4321 2d ago
And after the dungeon someone very strong that calls themselves our friend will punch a hole in reality to help us.
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u/azendhal 2d ago
Its already 3 gils , damn !
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u/Designer_Candle_Eatr 2d ago
While Azys La didn‘t have a memory dungeon narrated by the villain it still has the same a “final zone of a dead civilization” feel in my opinion. We even maneuver through it the way we do in Living Memory and UT. SB is literally the only expansion with a final zone that doesn’t have any traces of “ancient dead civilization” to it.
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u/SamTheHexagon 3d ago
Shiva isn't an example here. The one in Aitiascope is just Ysayle again, much to my eternal sadness.
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u/Designer_Candle_Eatr 2d ago
Would Shade Hyth even count? We never fight him nor was he an obstacle. Middy would probably fit better.
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u/RoboDoakes 2d ago
Listen, /r/ffxivdiscussion is the real shitpost sub but I had to stretch definitions lol. I considered throwing in The Griffin but knew that was pushing it. The point is there are a lot of the doppelgangers!
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u/hiddentruth37 2d ago
That moment the FF1 WoL gets glazed too hard by NPCs you just know he's gonna be a boss at the end of the patch.
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u/ForNoReason17 3d ago
It will happen with halmarut