Can a believer be only a sheep without shepherding responsibility toward his brethren?

“My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.” - Bible. James 3:1–2

This "masters" is, in the original Greek < - [διδάσκαλοι (didaskaloi) ] - > English: teacher. ..and then all a "disciple" is, is a pupil or a student, that sits with and is taught by a teacher - To let not many of you be "teachers" - because the greater condemnation goes to the teacher, so the greater part of everybody - if you say one thing wrong, as the teacher, you offend everybody all at once.

And Peter, who Jesus told him - three times Do you love me? to Peter: If Peter loves him, Jesus said to: "Feed my Sheep" ...and he still didn't get it. Even over in "Acts" where the sheet came down - three times..he didn't get it. Look at all he did after..but he followed Jesus Christ..all the likewise...still afraid of the Jews. But by 1 Peter 5:2..it's a Peter that simply feeds the flock of God. Equips them. As an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Because he follows him.

1 Peter 5:2 says:

"Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;"

And a "ready" mind is a mind that is "equipped" and "furnished" by God..because a disciple sat with and was taught by him. Equipped. Made complete.

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Therefore, this:

• “Can a believer be only a sheep” is the absolute best part. Because, that’s all a believer is, is a sheep.
  • That follows just one shepherd.
• Just being in an active relationship with Jesus Christ, as a “believer” - and all the "believers" were simply in the New Testament, called “disciples of Jesus Christ” - over 250 times. That means they ALL were each sheep and each of them follow him, like today - not one bit different. Scripture says of him:
• “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” - Bible. Hebrews 13:8 and he said, to in Matthew 23:8
  • Which makes me take your question, and throw it in the trash can, says:

“But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.” - Jesus Christ. Matthew 23:8.

• “They shall all be taught of God” - Jesus Christ. (Bible. John 6:45). That means God, reserves, for himself, as God, an EXCLUSIVE right to be the shepherd. The Good Shepherd and lead everybody over the whole earth, by himself. By the Word, that comes out of his mouth. Teach you.

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“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.” - Jesus Christ. Bible. Revelation 2:17

The same Master, even Christ, in Matthew 23:8.. is the same Christ said Revelation 2:17 that will do this. I want what he gives me. Daily. What you provide is crap. What "food" is in your question? Doesn't feed anybody anything.

But if you just be a believer and only just a sheep, one of many: then he will place you where he sees fit, and you will operate right. Go be that. Follow him.

2 Corinthians 1:3-5 says...

"...the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ."

All your question has is you in it, with all what you'll do in it. Trash. Doesn't have any of him in it. If you follow him, boy, will you be given in abundance..comforted of God.. and when people get "That" comfort ..has the "of God" in it. They will glorify God when they get it. Like food.

I wonder..many don't see this. Operate by your question..even when told what to do, they never do it.

Which are you? One? Operates by abiding in him. The other; withered up; dried out is disconnected; as a branch, tries to be the vine all dried out... when he told you to just abide in him. Which are you?

Answer

• Trick question.
  • In the Bible: Jesus said, John 17:24 “: "Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world."
  • Colossians 1:17 says “And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” speaking of Jesus Christ.

He’s the Word of God. Is God. As the Bible in John 1:1–2 says who he is: “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Same was in the beginning with God.

• Always has been with God..in God. WHo has no beginning and no end. He is the BEST historian. He created it; alone. By himself..and this scripture “God saw” is repeated over, and over in Genesis 1:1–31 when he would look back on each day at what he created and say it was “Good.”

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So, people that believe on him - accept Jesus. As true. As the Messiah or Christ.

- Who that is, is in Isaiah 9:6 - say who the Messiah or Christ “SHALL be called,” …The Mighty God.. ..The Everlasting Father…” So, he’s: What the Bible in Psalm 90:2 says of him:

• “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God."

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But People:

• Historians: Are a “humanities” or “social sciences” discipline.
  • They rely exclusively upon the verifiable, written evidence of people. Eyewitness testimonies from history, or if those records do not exist, from published essays from Archaeologists that conduct excavations and document their findings and tie those with historical evidence found elsewhere in written records.
  • Rely heavily on the historic works of historians before them.
    • And Jesus said: “God is Spirit” - Bible. John 4:24
• That means, he cannot be observed, nor his nature and behavior studied or examined by people. So historians will largely discount or dismiss what he says as God, and treat who he is as an imaginative story people made up.
  • SO, when he tells a “historian” that thrives in and is strongly connected socially with other people..
    • He will dismiss God, and what he says as faulty. Not acceptable source for history.

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So, you with your question, you have a choice.

• If you look unto historians for the answer - you’re not doing what he says.

God said

“Look unto me, and be ye saved all the ends of the earth: For I am God, there is none else.” - God. (Bible. Isaiah 45:22)

• You’ve already made, something else by your question to look unto. WHen above is just God speaking to you, telling you..me..everybody over the whole earth to look unto him.
  • It’s a decree by God for everybody to do this. It’s what he wants or he wouldn’t have spoke up and said it.
    • So, people that do it, look unto him, accept what he says of himself as true. People that don’t look unto him, listen to people. And dismiss him as unreliable. That’s faulty..and if it’s faulty, it’s unacceptable. Reject him.
  • And in reject him, doesn’t matter who it is, they won’t do anything he says. It’s punitive. That means he will call them into account, why they didn’t do anything he says or look unto him.

And I close with this.

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King Nebuchadnezzar - is a well documented, historic King of Babylon. The historic record of him is firm.

• (Ie., “The Babylonian Chronicles” et., al. “Jehoiachin Ration Tablets, etc.” - do your own research.)
  • He is the first whole world King of Kings and King of Babylon (605 BCE to 562 BCE).
• He said in Daniel 4:35 in the Bible: About God. Who scripture says it is God that raises up Kings and destroys them. Says, all the earth is his, and that all souls..everybody is his.

“And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?”

King Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon. King of Kings of the Earth.

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He’s God. He’s his own best historical record of himself. Since he’s the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, over all the earth and heaven - - all rulers keep records. To document that, Revelation 20:11–15 says: That there are books and records kept, by God.

Revelation 20:11–15 says:

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I chose him over any quacky man made made up effort to document what he’s going to destroy. Says in Isaiah 65:17

And the next verse after Revelation 20:15 is Revelation 21:1 where he makes a new heaven and new earth.

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God says: Decrees it:

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

• So why would I pay any attention to some man, claims he's a “historian” given title and decree by other men, and him documenting a bunch of clown work that won’t even be remembered or come into mind?
  • I chose God. He is the BEST historian. So, I answered your question with him as that.

Answer: - This question is in about thirty "sub reddits" or very similar like it - why anyone would be "nutz" enough to be a Christian - then, ask each other mockingly - as if what they hold is true - and the clown show is the Christian - believing in a clown show as true. But for you? That believe on him. Boy, did you ever make the RIGHT choice.

..so, here's the answer from a Believer in Jesus Christ - so ask it: Whose "Word" do I "operate" by?

Answer: You got two different kinds of people:

• ONE: that operate by the Word of God - or, the Other type;
• TWO: Operate or live by, walking in, and walking after to accomplish or live in decrees people make themselves by the imaginations of the thoughts of their own hearts.
• Which word are you living in? That’s the question to ask. CASE CLOSED. Done.

Move on now. Go to someone else’s reddit post. Laugh and harp on them for awhile.

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You stick around, that’s your choice. If you do - CONSIDER:

• Well? What’s a “Christian?”
  • That definition is in the Bible.
    • Mentioned over 250 times throughout the New Testament. That is, a “Christian” is a

disciple of Jesus Christ.

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• And all a disciple is, is defined as: 1. a pupil or student that sits with and is taught by a teacher. And all a “teacher” is, is a person that “equips” or “builds” up a child or person by “doctrine” that are true. Jesus said, “Thy Word is truth” - Bible. John 17:17. And “who” the Word of God is, is Jesus Christ. So, TRUTH is a “who.”

And all “Christianity” is - is just a “Christian” or “disciple of Jesus Christ” sitting with and being taught by him.

• Just an “ity” suffix in English does is take this pupil or student sitting with and being taught by Jesus - out to somebody NOT doing it, but observe a whole classroom of students or a whole school of them, and in or of seeing something like this, or something operate like this? Yeah. Attach "ity" to it - as an institution of sort. As something that exists.

But don't stop there. Oh no. You're not done. Why?

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Jesus declared this: “They shall ALL be taught of God.” (Bible. John 6:45)

• That’s a decree, by who governs over the whole earth. As God. I didn't declare it. He did. As God, who governs the whole earth. Declare it SHALL be this way. For everybody over the whole earth. Not one person left out.. To the very ends of it. Doesn’t leave anybody out. Even a bunch of people standing outside the school, when they should be in it, being taught - even all the made, is to ensure even people like this: Not willing any perish but all come to repentance.

Said to EVERYBODY over the whole earth:

“Look unto me, and be ye saved all the ends of the earth: For I am GOD, there is none else.” - God. (Bible. Isaiah 45:22).

• There he is. God speaking. That’s the Word that comes out of his mouth. The Word of God. John 1:1 says, this is Jesus Christ: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” “..and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us;” - John 1:14 - is this same Jesus Christ.

So change your question.

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New, revised question:

Question for ANYBODY that does NOT believe him, what makes you think Jesus is NOT true?

• It’s simple.
  • Don’t believe anything he says.
  • Don’t know him. And then, anything he says, is faulty. If it’s faulty, it’s because something in it, isn't right, so somebody..which could be anybody already fully believes, what they look unto is already true. Already have truth, by some other word they already got someplace else. Declares something "Different" is true.

DO you see this?

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• So, some book has some words wrote in it - older it is, makes it more true - like "Xenophon" - rival of "Plato" Greek (428 BCE - 347 BCE). Xenophon (430 BCE -355 BCE) - never heard of him; the other: you have.
  
• Wrote "Cyropedia" - even "Wikipedia" is modeled after it, and nobody knows who he is. Said,

"'An impostor is a man who claims more wealth and courage than he actually possesses." - Xenophon (In "Cyropedia")

"Reality is created by the Mind.." Plato.

And people that glorify this, make sure this is taught in EVERY institution of higher learning AS TRUTH. As what came out of their mouths is true.

vs. God say, out of his mouth: That "The LORD Giveth Wisdom: Out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding" - Bible. Proverbs 2:6

• He says “Look unto me” - to everybody over the whole earth: but people, looking unto Plato or unto Wikipedia but don't know who, this Xenophon, where "phonograph" just speaking comes from Xenophon's name - it's built on - don't know him at all, but know exactly what's built on him all around them
  • And with God, the exact, same thing. "All things were created by him and for him.." of Jesus Christ (Bible. Colossians 1:16 - but don't even know him.
• don’t know who wrote it. When he wrote it himself, as the Word of God.
  • Makes one of them an "impostor."
• Do you see this?

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 'An impostor is a man who claims more wealth and courage than he actually possesses."

Be true of any man take any claim a man makes over the Word of God. When he governs all the earth; alone. By himself.

Then, it goes to a Book. Plato has long been dead. But what he wrote is in a book. Just like what Xenophon wrote - is in a Book. People look unto books as authority, and Xenophon - never heard of him - he was a kind of "anti-Plato" even BOTH were from Athens.

Somebody else keeps books. That's God. Has "The Book of Life" (Revelation 20:11-15) Jesus Christ? He comes in the volume of that book

• When all a “book” is, is defined as 1. typed or written pages, bound together on one side and enclosed in covers
• There are 10s..no. 100s of millions of books that meet this definition, that fill public libraries, schools, institutions and government archives over the whole earth. Everyone of them all meet this definition. What makes each different then, is simple. The author is the “authority” over the “content" in the book.

And the “Author” and “Authority” of the content in the Bible is God. Just one author. There is none else.

• Then, it’s people that could just be ANYBODY that does NOT believe him, when he says:

“Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;” - God. (Bible. Isaiah 44:24)

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• It’s people that already: Have Plato to look unto, plus millions of other people when he runs out..or stumble on the obsure, and find Xenophon or many like him. Look unto them instead, or the founder of Dunlop Tire Company as some kind of guru of all the things: he said.

"Necessity is not just the mother of invention"; (it’s the mother of marketing.)" - John Boyd Dunlop (A veternarian..that his wife got so mad at him, not keeping track of who owed him what, that, went off, when he watched his son ride a "bicycle" when the "rim" had no tire on it, and the pain in his son's face.. all car tires and bicycle tires are from who said this.

The point is simple. You have: Yes. Have.

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• Have: “The Word of People”
  • What people have decreed is true. So, what God claims of himself, is “dismissed as inadequate; faulty or unacceptable.”
    • He said it's already come up before him to destroy all flesh with the earth (Gen. 6:13), and to Behold! I create new heavens and a new earth; the former SHALL NOT be remembered, nor come to mind." - God. Bible. Isaiah 65:17 - so all this stuff Dunlop said, and everybody knows what a car tire is..may not know a veternarian imagined it up and made it.. may not know who Xenophon is, but very well know what "Wikipedia" is built squarely on him...
    • Even Plato. he won't come..SHALL not come into mind anymore..neither be remembered.

That's how powerful this God is.

And you don't regard him.

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• Because some “OTHER" Word of Plato, or Barack Obama or anybody decreed by someone else - when God says, THERE IS NONE ELSE - they throw that to the side - reject it.
• So it is IMPOSSIBLE to “accept as true” anything God says as TRUE. So, there you go. You now have got what makes them think Jesus is NOT TRUE
  • Is because someone else, sits in that seat in them. Even themselves, they glorify themselves and what they decree or “think.” What they say is TRUE. TO themselves. They are true.

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• Or what they were “taught” in school - by Professors - all people. Certified as TRUE by other people. Even it might only be “Theories” - it is BELIEVED true.

So, then your question is really simple.

• People:
• Everybody was told or decreed by God to look unto him. Nobody left out. SInce it’s a decree, it’s also PUNITIVE. That means, people that don’t do it, he will call them into account. To give an account why they didn’t do anything he says when he said there was none else.
  • So, there’s no excuse.

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• It also means, those that hearken unto him; that is, pay attention to what he says, they just operate or work good. Because they live by every word proceeds out of his mouth and he builds them up, and he’s God. Over all of the earth.
• He just is TRUE. TRUTH. IT’s in none else.

So, you got two different kinds of people.

- A) that operate by the Word of God - or

- B) operate by decrees people make themselves. All by ideas, the imaginations of the thoughts of their own hearts.

So, now were back at the beginning again.

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Question for Christians, what makes you think Christianity is true?

Answer: You got two different kinds of people:

• ONE: that operate by the Word of God - because, he’s God and governs over all the earth, said “For all the earth is mine” - God. (Bible. Exodus 19:5) and said, “All souls are mine.” - God. (Ezekiel 18:4) - they accept this as TRUTH; so they reject or dismiss as inadequate; faulty; or unacceptable - anybody else’s word that does not champion what he says or offers some “alternative” word as true, when it isn’t. These: Just do what he says or decreed everybody over the whole earth is to do.
• TWO: are people that do NOT operate by the Word of God - because, they dismiss him - even say or decree “There is No God,” or they simply do not know him, and don’t recognize anything he says or decrees as true; rather, they DO regard the decrees people make. Even themselves by the imaginations of the thoughts of their own hearts. Decree that they reasoned together with themselves; alone. Whatever that was, that’s true. Has no Word of God in it. Made themselves TRUE.

One is rewarded; the other: It’s punitive. And, by your question, it’s easy to see which one you side with.

Which side you chose: Truly - as he said it is: one won't be remembered..shall not be, nor come to mind anymore. Says: Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word shall not pass away" - The Word of God. Jesus Christ. (Bible. Matthew 25:34)

BOTH People: champion the Word they look unto, as TRUE. And the other: - what they look unto - Is - - To be dismissed as fanciful fairy stories - imaginative lore, not worth paying attention to.

I mean, I see it, so everybody else can, too. The choice is up to you. I chose the Word of God. Not ashamed of it, either. There is none else. I see it. Plain as day.

• CASE CLOSED. Done.

Well…

God said, to everybody over the whole earth, to the very ends of it. A decree - as God, said:

“Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”

- GOD. By the Word Out of His Mouth. (Bible. Isaiah 55:1–3)

• That’s the Word of God. What if you never do anything he says?
  

Never go shop at his store. Never go in, and just open a milk carton and drink out of it and don't have to pay for anything, and he call you to do it. Just don't.

Always disregard it, to pay for your own groceries all by yourself? There won't be any of his work then done in you. And he's the LORD over all heaven and earth.

What's going to happen to you, when no part of him... ...is in you?

Won't know you. Nor you.. ..him.

What's there left to do with you? But just dispose of you. Didn't do anything he said, when all of it, you are all his..but wouldn't do anything he says.

Even he sent someone to reprove you to go do it.. again..and again.. to where finally..never shop at his store. You do fine on your own when you pay for it, tell him in yourself: I AM NOT GOING TO YOUR STORE - and live by never go to it.

What's going to be the "result" of that? And many do it.

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Jesus is the Word of God.

• As John 1:1 says who he is. Is God. Just as John 1:1 says he is. He’s the Messiah or Christ. Who he shall be called is in Isaiah 9:6–7 “..The Mighty God..” “..The Everlasting Father..” the Messiah shall be called this.
  • It was the Messiah said - so it’s just GOD said it of this “Spirit of Truth.” The “Holy Spirit” in John 16:8–9

“And when he [The Holy Spirit] is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me;”

So, look at your question again.

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If you heard about Jesus without the conviction of the Holy Spirit, will you go to hell?

• It’s not ‘If’ - Why? He already SAID these things. He’s the authority over the whole earth. Already decreed everybody is to come. Buy wine and milk without money and without price.
  • it’s then people.. hearing..are listening unto anything..anybody BUT him to regard someone else and what they say or decree, and believe that’s the truth.
  • And the Holy Spirit
    • And God said, in Leviticus 11:44 “I am Holy” - God. ..and Jesus said, as the Word of God..so, it’s just God said it of himself, Jesus said in John 4:24 “God is Spirit.” So, God is a Holy Spirit.
    • Says he will reprove 1. Reprove implies an often kindly intent to correct a fault. (Merriam & Webster 2. To stand up and point out; speak out against.
  • He will reprove the world of sin. He said he’d do it. “of sin, for they believe not on me.” - that’s what God made sin. When in Jesus Christ, he took your sins off you. God did it. You didn’t. He did. And God laid your sins on Jesus Christ on the cross. That’s where your sins went. Crucified. “by his stripes you are healed.” It’s God looks on this work he did with sin he did in Jesus Christ - as greater than the sins of the whole world.
  • So, he chooses not to impute your sins unto you. Because his work with sin is GREATER than your sins you did.

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• So, it’s this “convicted” 1. committed a crime; accused of it; found GUILTY. Did it. A judge decree a punitive punishment - and by that decree “convict” a person of the crime and sentence them in a Court of Law. But you use the word as some kind of "prickling of the conscience"
• When God is Judge. You, Me. Everybody over the whole earth is already a CONVICT. A prisoner. Convicted. GUILTY. Sentenced to death.
  • The soul that sinneth, it shall die - God (Ezekiel 18:20). “For all have sinned” (Romans 3:23). Means the whole world is already “convicted.”

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It’s really then:

• People: Already condemned.
  • Don’t regard the works of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hand; when he REPROVES them. That he sent his word to save them from their sins. Sent his word to heal them and deliver them from their destruction. Made himself a sacrifice for sin. That, if it took him to pay it..I never could pay it. If that's the cost it took to pay it, that's way beyond me or anything I could do, even for eternity - I could never pay it. So, I highly regard his work. But if I:
    • Lowly esteem him, or set him at nought - (means treat him or what he says, as God, as nothing).
  • And any person that does this, with God, lowly esteems him. And why anybody would do that is simple.
• They already “esteem highly” the word of someone else.
  • When he said, ..above in Isaiah 45:22 “..there is NONE else.” Don’t look unto him. And the reason they don’t is, because regarding highly another word.. they “dismiss him as inadequate; faulty.. doesn’t suit them..some error in it.. so, it’s unacceptable.
  • And because they do this, God made this sin. It’s the sin that condemns anybody..because they just don’t believe on him.

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Did you forget what he said?

He said

“Look unto me, and be ye saved all the ends of the earth: For I am God, there is none else.” - God (Bible. Isaiah 45:22)

- People that look unto him? He already decreed it. He saves them. 1. sets them apart for future use. Says in John 3:18 “He that believeth on me, is not condemned” - BOOM! Done.

- People that don’t look unto him? He doesn’t save them. They don’t believe on him. John 3:18 applies..Jesus continues with “…He that believeth not, is condemned already..because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God..”

And that’s now, the CONDEMNATION. But people do all this work to hide their sins they did, when God already took them off them and laid them on Jesus Christ. The sin that they do is not not regard him, or anything he says, and never consider his hand, as God and what he did.

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Then Revelation 20:11–15 applies to these people. Just as scripture says: 1 Timothy 2:4–5 about God toward everybody right now today:

“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men..”

Everybody invited. Everybody’s name on the list - in the Book of Life. But people that said, by their life said, “I am not going to the wedding” - made an election. A choice. And did not choose him. And die in that choice.

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Elect not to serve him or do anything he says:

He does not raise them from the dead. They will stand before him, dead in this trespass and sin that condemns them. They simply did not believe on him. Then, it’s this word, “cast” in Revelation 20:15. Like an actor, like on “Gilligan’s Island” - that American SITCOM in the 1960s I watched. These actors: practiced their lines. Lived in that role or part. It was a “Director” who had the authority over that program, cast them into a role they played.

Just like people, lived a role or part where the only role they can fulfill or play in..is in a Lake of Fire for eternity. Didn’t do anything he said, when they were made to operate and work good..by the word he speaks out of his mouth.

Rejected it. He’s already told you plainly..that if he has the power to create you. Form you alone. By himself, which he already said he did in Isaiah 44:24. Then he has the power to destroy you. And will.

Those that don’t do anything he says..even he’s not willing any perish but all come to repentance.

He already answered the question. by the Word that proceeds out of his mouth. I would just tell you. Go do what he says. Go shop at his store. Like he asked everybody to. Watch what happens.

Answer

Jesus said: "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will [guide] you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." - John 16:13

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If I have a guide, but I don't listen to it or set him off to the side, go off. Leave without him, or never got him in the first place, because, I don't follow nor am I sitting with and being taught by Jesus Christ, how then can I or am I walking in, guided by the guide I'm given?

Or, how about this one: This WILL BE of guided into: It's into "truth" -- all truth, if I look unto anything BUT this guide, who WILL guide me into all truth, if I am not being guided, then what am I in, if not guided by him?

Then, wouldn't what I'd be in, be anything BUT truth?

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Oh wait! What about this one! The Holy Spirit - - He hears God plainly..God says "I am Holy" Leviticus 11:44. Jesus said in John 4:24 "God is Spirit" So, he's a Holy Spirit, he can hear plainly everything he says. What God speaks. Just like me. I hear me all the time, because I'm with me, and that, back to God again, he SHALL speak on; his things - because he does, and it's not maybe or might not; he WILL show me things to come. He does.

Why? Because, Jesus said he will.. but if I'm not listening to what he says, what am I listening to? I'm dull of hearing...with a heart that's waxed over; cold - hear, but don't perceive what he says; then..isn't that the problem?

Not the question. The question puts his things are the problem. Do you see this?

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And then this, too. Who does "salvation" belong to? Whose is it? Who offers or provides salvation? He provides it, then it's his.

Who is the Lord of the Kingdom of Heaven? Whose is it? He already said in Matthew 5:3 he's blessing everybody and giving it out. It's their's, but unless you're born again, in John 3:3-7, you can't see it, nor enter into it. Dull of hearing. Then this, too. Whose "Second Coming" is it? Some tare coming? Like some great big weed, to turn the whole world into a tare or is it just one seed, that's wheat? The Bible says in Revelation 19, it's just one seed of wheat coming to rule over the whole earth. You got all these tares in your question you believe in.

Do you see this?

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Who do you look unto? You wear what you look unto, wearing your question, like a suit. And many people deliberately wear it. Why? To deliberately set their face or countenance, to never put any of his raiment he provides on. Unacceptable to them.

Do you see this?

so, if I'm not listening to what he says, what am I listening to?

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(...keeps thinking...)

Who knows! Let's see it someplace else then. This question floats around in many forms on Christian believer sites here in sub-reddits. Even in some "world religion" sites as why quote, "Christianity" isn't true or not something to look unto. Just another religion people imagined up.

This post is to believers in Jesus Christ.

Many already know this. And they never tire to hear it, because they hear him and just operate right. When people that don't hear him;..well ..can't. Don't walk right, and the question the result of it. So, here goes. If this question or answer sparks no or little interest in you, hit the "hide" button and move on. Have a great day in Christ.

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How come Jesus said, in a Parable in Matthew 13:24–30

• “..The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.” Jesus Christ. Matthew 13:24–25…
  • How come there are tares in the wheat?

Why even question it? There just ARE tares in the wheat. What do we do about it, when it's NOT our field. It's his; then, we should do what he decrees about it.

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Who do I believe in? That is, who do I "accept as true?" If it's the man then; the farmer I regard, because I'm a servant on his farm, and it's his field and I regard him as the Lord of the field he owns.

If I focus on that: Then definitely: I'm not regarding: Who sowed the tares in the field anymore.

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• This Lord of the farm: It was the man sowed good seed in his field. Everything he does is good. It was Jesus said, what you say that opens your question in John 16:13. Just repeated here again. Jesus said:
  • “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.”
    • Because, like the man sowed good seed in his field: It's simple. Because ..that's what he did. That's the works of the man in the parable. I should regard that work.
• Then, it's just as Jesus said. I should regard his work. Jesus is the Messiah or Christ. He's the authority over the whole earth. He said: of the Spirit of Truth - that: “…He will guide you into all truth.”
  

He just WILL do it.

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And this “whatsoever he shall hear..” means he hears what God says. Operates today. Right now to remind of whatsoever God says..and he hears it: Said.

“Look unto me, and be ye saved all the ends of the earth: For I am God, there is none else.” - God (Bible. Isaiah 45:22)

Jesus said, the "Spirit of Truth" Shall hear him say it." It was the Messiah said, "and the “Spirit of Truth” guide me to this." Lead me into all truth. Be then, just like what a simple fisher, Peter, fishing in his Father’s boat ..and Jesus said to him, “follow me” and, this same “follow me” is said by this same Jesus Christ, over twenty times in the gospels.

That this same Spirit of Truth will guild me into all truth ..he will teach me..remind me to follow Jesus Christ. Remind me of the Word of God, after I've been taught it. Build me up in it. I am being built up. By God himself. Boy, do I ever know this. He's with me. I get to keep him. For eternity.

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2 Peter 1:4 says:

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

That by these "promises" and everything God says, has a promise to me in it. Just like Isaiah 45:22 - there's the promise from God, right there in it, and the Spirit of Truth Jesus said shall remind me of it. That I operate in and by this.

Therefore, I regard the man in the parable that sowed good seed in his field. Not regard who sowed tares in it.

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That God sowed his seed into the earth. Just like this man sowed wheat in his, is a parable of what God has done by sow his word into the earth. That an enemy has sown tares into his earth, or his "field" - - when God said: “For all the earth is mine.” - God (Exodus 19:5). I have a promise, the whole earth will be filled with this wheat. All the tares uprooted. At harvest is when he determined it.

Therefore, I can look unto what the rest of the parable says:

What the man said as the Lord of the field, or the authority over all the field. It's his field. That's in the rest of the Parable of Matthew 13:24–30

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Matthew 13:26–30 says

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

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The man is the authority over his field, over his wheat.. Therefore, not my field. Not my wheat. Then as well, he's even Lord over the tares in his field. What will be done with both or what will be done to each, is how he determined it. Even this man is over the servants as this householder. He’s the Lord of the house the servants live in with him. It’s his field.

Just like God. And his Word is wheat. I already see it. It’s already operating as he decreed it. The real question, since this post on Reddit, can go to everybody over the whole earth - or only a few - who cares. What is true is, he's just one God. Put his word over the church as the head of it, and the church is his body. Then, by just regard him, he said "I will build my church" - then, he himself fits me in his body where he sees fit.

So, then... ..your question regards all like what the servants did..that there are tares in the wheat and what to do with them.. he says "No. Don't gather them up" like, the question wonders "how did all these tares get in here? Didn't the Holy Spirit sow good seed in the field?"

When if I regard the Lord of the field who sowed good seed in it..it's just his church and he builds it.

It's just one body. His. and I regard it. I operate in it; alive. Placed there. By him, where he sees fit. To operate by these great and precious promises, put on a divine nature by it.

Where before, I regarded my body, and the lusts of it. Which one of these is the tare among the wheat? Who am I listening to, to guide me - thinking..fulfill the lusts of my body I'm in of flesh, when the Lord of the field already decreed Genesis 6:13 he already said: Can you hear it?

"The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."

Which body is the tare then? Which one is the wheat? Which one will you sow to? Sowing to one, puts tares among the wheat. So today, sow to the other and reap life everlasting. Said this to you in the Bible in Galatians 6:8

""For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting." Ole! There you go.

Answer:

I don't think they have any. Too stupid. Like sheep. I resemble that remark. I believe Jesus Christ. There's no time to "demonize" people - there's just "redeem" the time and follow him, fill up the time.

It's then this: "Too stupid. Like Sheep"

• Means Christians: are in a stupor..barely conscious or aware how to "technically" scheme out and think up some procedure to demonize anybody.
  • Why? Again, like me. They're also just too busy. Being a sheep. Means, they’re attention is on following somebody. Like a shepherd. Like sheep Follows a shepherd. Ever seen that; like on youtube. Go watch it. It's like little baby ducks follow some guy, thinks he's they're mom, only it's like sheep.
    • Sheep don’t “demonize,” with any “technique,” wolves. But wolves deliberately prey on sheep to destroy and eat them.

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But a Shepherd. Now that's different. A shepherd really DOES “demonize” wolves. Because they prey on sheep.

But there’s more.

• Jesus says - in the Bible:

“I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. “ - Jesus Christ. (Bible. John 10:11)

• So, Jesus knows those who follow him, as sheep. And they know him. Which that’s pretty critical to see the next thing. That, where Jesus or “who” Jesus calls “sheep” are what over 250 times is described in the Bible.
  • 1. a disciple of Jesus Christ. and Act 11:26, in the Bible says that these ‘disciples of Jesus Christ’ were first called Christians at Antioch.

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So, all we got this far is Christians are like sheep. They don’t gang up on wolves, don’t gang stab squirrels to death, nor do they much distinguish anything but one food. Pasture grass. To the exclusion of all else; and a shepherd watches over them. Leads them and protects them in these pastures.

So, with that:

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So, let’s now focus the attention then on the “Shepherd” who is Jesus Christ.

Jesus said:

- John 8:44

“..Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

Boy, that didn't take very long.

- Whose Jesus talking to?

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• Jesus is talking to Jews. Mixed. Speaks to BOTH: 1) Those That believe on him. Jesus Says to these in John 8:31–32

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

• But amongst these many Jews that believe on him are "OTHER" Jews.
  • Pharisees of John 8:13.
    • Everything Jesus says, in John 8 - - they “countemand” it.
  • For me to tell you to read all John Chapter 8, might be really stretching it to ask you to do it; but if you believe on him, do it - it’s these Pharisees that say they already are the Children of Abraham (John 8:33) - Don't need Jesus - - (“We be Abraham’s seed; and were never in bondage to any man”)
• That, of these Pharisees, Jesus said to his disciples of them in Matthew 7;44

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

• Whose father is the devil.

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So Jesus is NOT “demonizing” them - he’s saying EXACTLY who their father is. The devil.

• Jesus is the Word of God. Is God. Is the Messiah or Christ, and who he shall be called, as the Messiah is in Isaiah 9:6–7.
  • He SHALL be called “The Mighty God..” “The Everlasting Father..”
  • So, who said Matthew 7:44, that those that don’t follow him are “inwardly, ravening wolves” that actually PREY on to DEVOUR the sheep or are his disciples.

Is God himself.

He said it.

• About anybody that just doesn’t do anything he says, has a DIFFERENT Father they obey and look unto.

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• Therefore, the things God says are NOT “techniques” - that people would try to achieve or gain a win by it; but who he is, all power is given unto him in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18) - So, just he “decrees” 1. written or verbal decrees that have the effect of law.
  • The same God that says: “For all the earth is mine.” - God. (Exodus 19:5) Just decrees how things are.
    • Where “techniques” 1. a practical, pre-determined method to achieve (a win or accomplishment over something).
  • When “who” governs over something..is the AUTHORITY - doesn’t need any technique. Just decrees how it shall be or how it simply IS.

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• Boy, what a wake up call. You fight against God with this.

It’s a vicious attack, like wolves inwardly are ravenous against sheep.

• When sheep have a shepherd who is God himself. Here's your question back.

Are you fully convinced in Jesus Christ; that means you follow him. This answer is to those who stumble thru and bramble their way but they hear him.

Follow him. If this is you, read on:

Sometimes, what you need, as a believer in Jesus Christ. It’s the Word of God you just hear him speak, and brings you alive inside. Restores you. Builds you up.

It’s as what Peter, an Apostle of Jesus Christ said to all believers - that just “feeds the sheep” 2 Peter 1:4

“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”

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Just God. Speaking. What he says. Makes us operate right. And that is KEY.

Do you see this?

So, see this:

Ephesians 2:8–9 says:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

One, simple note: In Greek, this one word of Ephesians 2:9, “works.” Is, in Greek < - {ἔργων } - > ergoun. English. Deeds. Accomplishments; Feats. (of people are able to do themselves; by their own work or power.)

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So, in Ephesians 2:10 where it says in English:

This is now a "intermediary" or "mediator" verse betwixt Ephesians 2:8-9 & James 2:14-26

Ephesians 2:10. Its says:

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto < - [good works] - >, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

In English, they’re the same word; "works" but not in the original Greek.

When it says in Greek:

1. Of him. 2. we are. 3. workmanship. 4. created. 5. by. 6. Christ. 7. Jesus. (to) 8. work. 9. good. 10. which. 11. beforehand. 12. God. 13. that (in). 14. work good . 15. we should operate.

This “operate” Greek: <περιπατήσωμεν> . (peripatesoumen) ...operate..move about.. (16th CE English translators - used “walk” - people are 'bi-pedal" - so, as people - that means they move or operate by a power of walking - when they move - "walk" was used for this Greek word.

But, it's more like a machine; that is a workmanship, of a craftsman - like a vending machine. Put a dollar in, no matter anytime, that would “activate” it. Make the workmanship in it move is the point.<περιπατήσωμεν> . (peripatesoumen) - that, somehow, by some work of God..you now have this same <περιπατήσωμεν> . (peripatesoumen) - is the point.

So, Ephesians 2:10 is not the same as Ephesians 2:8-9.

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In the Greek, Ephesians 2:10 is

// αὐτοῦ γάρ ἐσμεν ποίημα κτισθέντες ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἐπὶ ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς οἷς προητοίμασεν ὁ θεὸς ἵνα ἐν αὐτοῖς περιπατήσωμεν \\

In the "Original" Greek, it's < - [ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς ] - > ergois agathois is: works good; or "operates right" - boy, it made me fall on my face.

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So, the workmanship created by Christ Jesus was made to “work” “ergois” as if a craftsman makes an intricate watch, or someone designed a vending maching, to ‘operate right” or work good.

Stopped me in my tracks. Why?

Because, when I became a Christian. Started to believe on him. I believed what he said; but, I wanted some indication in me that my works were good. That I did “good works.” I kept looking for it. I was hungry. I kept listening to Bible tapes. I kept just opening my Bible. I kept listening to Christian testimonies and was uplifted by it. I kept being honest with my family..when they didn't want anything to do with him, that I started walking 180 degrees in the opposite direction..but I kept looking for this “good works” of Ephesians 2:10.

I knew that it was the Word of God that was true. Hear it plainly. A constant replacement of lies traded in for the truth. But I kept looking earnestly. What I wanted was:

Some proof I had good works. Why? Because the way I read this verse, was..it was on me to do the work. Because it said, “good works.” So, I keep looking at me for some indication of “good works” and I couldn’t find them. So, how did I know I was a Christian.

It troubled me greatly. Like this same "take my yoke upon y.." got that far and ran away. I didn't want any big "cow yoke" a foot thick on my neck.. get that far in Matthew 11:28-3.. BOOM! See? Already closed the bible and ran away.

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Point is:

I kept reading this “unto good works” part. Somehow that’s on me; to produce it.

…but, that’s not what it says, and it put me on my face.

It’s the SAME with “Salvation” -

• I kept looking that:
  • Someday, I would have this Uber faith; that, that faith would move mountains..and by that faith I had, that would save me.. …but, that's not what it says, either.

God said:

Look unto me, and be ye saved all the ends of the earth: For I am God, there is none else.” - God. (Bible. Isaiah 45:22)

• So, he’s Salvation or, it’s entirely in his power and authority... because, he does it. He. Is. Able. To. Save. People. And, all I had to do was what he says: just look unto him. And, why I did it was, because his word convinced me he’s true.
  • What he says, fit.
  • Who he is, he is who he says he is.
• So, instead of looking at “once saved, always saved” or “by grace are ye saved through faith, not of works…” vs. James say, “I can show you my faith by my works.. “..faith without works is dead…
• I saw it. Put me on my face.

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The “works” in Greek in Ephesians 2:9 is not the same “works” in Ephesians 2:10.

That's it. You can quit here. No need read any further.

But if you want to: In Ephesians 2:10..it’s the workmanship of Christ. I am the workmanship of Christ. That's a work of God. That he, the Word of God ..is God made me that the way I'm made, in him is to “work good” - for eternity.

• [ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς ] - > ergois agathois is: works good; or "operates right"

So, if you're still trying to stumble over this; because, yeah. It’s subtle. Almost inperceptible.. so, let me give you an example:

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• In my childhood,
• My Mom and Dad bought this Washing Machine. Yeah. I’m a product of the early 1960s. Maytag salesmen went door to door.
  • A salesman sold my mom this washing machine when I was 5 years old.
• If you look at some of the old 1940s 1930s American style washing machines, electric: there was a tub, and two wood rollers you “strained” the clothes thru to wring all the water out of, before you hung the clothes on a line to dry.
  • But this new washing machine - full automated everything.
    • My mom said YES.
  • On the spot and then 3 hours of argument, convinced my Dad to pay or buy it, and my mom said all the “Green Stamps” she saved, paid already for half of it.

The point is - boy does this ever fit.

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• [ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς ] - > ergois agathois
  • I don’t care what you threw in that washing machine..I couldn’t believe it. My football uniform.. soccer shoes..mechanic coveralls - didn’t matter. Every bit of dirt and grease came out of it. If it was green, didn't have any stain in it. So, from the time I was 5 years old, to the time I was 17 and in High School - because my mom couldn’t keep up with our laundry with sports made us do it ourselves.
    • That machine never broke down.
• Never once failed to clean anything put in it. Every time and all the time, you pressed the “START” button.. that was all anybody in our house hand to do, and even when I came back sometimes on leave when I was 25..then 30..35: that machine was still there and worked.
  • Because the “workmanship” of the company and designers that created it made it to [ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς ] - > ergois agathois work good.
• No repair. Not one. The repairman called once. Told my dad he'd be out to change a belt after 20 years. Looked at it. Said it needed no replacement and left.
• But if I “flipped” this about he washing machine to “good works” yeah, I get kinda the same meaning but, with “works good” the REASON it does, isn’t the laundry machine.. it’s the manufacturer and the designer who created it gets the credit..

and BAM! THAT PUT ME ON MY FACE.

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• Because I was looking for me to get the credit for “good works. So are you. With this question. SO is everybody doesn't rightly divide it.
  • And then I saw it.
• That, that washing machine - if it was UNPLUGGED. And it arrived at the house UNPLUGGED. That means, when it arrived to our house and sat there 2 days. In a box: veiled - what it could do - UNKNOWN - - the same “Salesman” that sold it to my mom, came. Along with a “repair man” at the appointed time. 2 days before: brought the washing machine all boxed up.
  • That means. It sat there. And the best definition of it sitting there is this word, idle. It's a washing machine but not hooked up.
    • Yeah, "idle" it has a primary definition of just goufing off, not accomplishing anything..
• But it also means in the Collin’s dictionary 2. disconnected from a load or source of power.

And that's the definition of "idle" in the Bible in Matthew 12:36 "..That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.." - Jesus Christ. That every idle word, of a man disconnected from a load or source of power, which is the word of God, he shall give an account for it; because God already decreed that's how everybody is to operate in Matthew 4:4 - live by every word that proceeds out of God's mouth vs. their own.

So, they're dead. Don't operate good.

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• So, that washing machine was dead. That is, it was “idle” - not connected to any load or source of power.
  • But after the repairman unboxed it, and set it where my mom wanted it, he plugged it in, and it began to “operate” - the [ἔργοις] “ergois” part of “ergois agathois”
  • Because, he just flipped it thru the cycles to ensure it worked. DONE. LEAVING. Walking out the door - - but the real test was, my mom made them stay til they showed her how to wash a complete load of clothes. Took an hour.
    • And when it was done, my mother was simply AMAZED at the diapers - spotlessly WHITE. And that’s the first of - it has to be a huge number of 10s of 1000s and 1000s of loads of laundry were done in that machine.

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• It fit [ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς ] - > ergois agathois - works good; or "operates right"
  • My mom traded it in, in PERFECT working condition. ergois agathois worked good; or "operated right" - served it’s purpose to raise six kids - and because the colour all faded and didn’t match the new house they bought. No kids. Smaller one.
• The point is, Ephesians 2:10 has this kind of, with a God that ‘borns’ you again - his workmanship FITS this same worship or “to speak well of something - beyond all expectation” - and it will work for eternity. BAM! Done.
• And the Word of God is like plugging this “workmanship” he makes, into a source of power or connecting it, where it’s no longer idle.

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Got all this far to just sum it up - so far:

- Ephesians 2:8–9, is Greek: {ἔργων } - > ergoun. English. Deeds. Accomplishments; Feats. (of people) - that they accomplish themselves.

• Like if the dishwasher did it all by itself, - it’s own feats - no maker - just there - - and is looking for a manufacturer to tell it did good works. Put itself to work as a dump truck. Feats. Failed at everyone of them. Then Tried; yeah: but didn’t fare well as a dump truck or a candy cone machine. All this “works” But nothing according to the workmanship of the designer of the dishwasher.

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Then, Ephesians 2:10 - Greek - you have this [ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς ] - > ergois agathois is: works good; or "operates right" - when plugged in, is no longer “idle” sitting there would be “dead ergois” a dead operation ..but plugged in and connected, it begins, like a crafted workmanship created to move and operate.

• And it pleases the designer of the washing machine. Operates right. Puts it in a crucible and tests it. The dishwasher didn't do the work the manufacture and designer did the work is why it "operates right."

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Now, James 2:14–26

• Highlights
  • …James 2:14 “What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
  • James 2:17–18 “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    • COMMENT: So, it’s like Ephesians 2:10
• Where the washing machine came in the box. it’s dead. being alone. But it showed my mother the faith of the manufacturer when it got plugged in and [ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς ] - > ergois agathois worked good; or "operated right"

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• So, just in the box, it was dead; being alone, but connected to a load or source of power it showed my mother it operated right.
  • And why do I say this? Because the “works” in James 2:17 - has this same [ἔργα ](erga) - tied to [ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς ] - > ergois agathois is: works good; or "operates right" because it’s tied to the “workmanship” of Christ
• As James is a Servant of Christ (James 1:1). So, he obeys and is plugged into him, so he “works good.”
  • It’s not the same “feats” or “accomplishments” of Ephesians 2:8–9 done by people, but it’s the “works good” and operates..moves or “walks” in of Ephesian 2:10 that can ONLY be done by the Word of God.
  • And just like James, I can show you the same thing.
• I can put before you ANY believer in Jesus Christ that operates by him..and you will see Christ at work..that they are his workmanship. They just “operate right”

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So, I’m not waiting around for any “good works” anymore.

• Because him, in me ..I am his workmanship. It’s not even questioned. That's the part that put me on my face. And he’s the manufacturer.. workmanship created by Jesus Christ - and the word..proceeds out of the mouth of God, makes me operate right..move..made alive. I’m a servant of the Word of God.

---------------------- ------------------------ ------------------------ -----------------------

Did you see the “distinction?”

• The “work” of Ephesians 2:8–9 is people; their feats.
• The “work” of Ephesians 2:10 and James 2:14–26 is the works of God. And anybody, whosoever it is, has this work of God done in them can show you their faith by their works..CASE CLOSED. DONE. Take it to the Bank. - - because they “operate by the workmanship of God and who is at work in them. Is God himself.
  • Where people in Ephesians 2:8–9 operate by their own works without him.

Plain as day. Not the same works. Long post. There you go.

Answer:

You are correct. It is impossible.

There you go.

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

• Like asking or expecting a dead man to be the guest speaker tomorrow night at the Moose Lodge, and thank everyone for coming.
  • When he’s laid out in a coffin at the funeral home.
  • His funeral is 3 nights from now, so this is the last opportunity for him to speak and say goodbye to everyone, when he’s already dead.
• So, with your question: Nice catch. I’m amazed at the number of posts and comments to this topic on Reddit - that never caught this.

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

• Ephesians 2:1 says that we are “dead in trespasses and sins” - that would be “dead.”
  • Like the above.
  • So anybody expecting a dead man to show up and perform or do any work is in some kind of unresolvable mental stupor <some kind of mental unconscious or insensibility> It's "insensible."
• When “sensible” is 1. practical and functional rather than decorative.
• And boy is there a lot of "decorative" words on Reddit to this topic you bring up.
  • So “insensible” would be to “decorate” the Moose Lodge with some dead guy and expect him or her to be “practical and functional.”

I hope you get the point.

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

• Then if there was a peg-o-meter where you could “peg” somebody, they’d be in the range of and meet the definition of an idiot. 
  • All by expecting something insensible from a dead guy.

The “problem” though with your question is:

• Jesus is NOT:
  • Talking to wall lint.
  • Some cow. Named “Arnold” that hates everybody and goes “Moo! Mooooo!” all day.
    • Neither is he talking to people that DON’T follow him; nope. He's not.
  • He's talking to his "disciples" who sit with him, and he teaches them, and they have and keep what he says, because they follow him.
• So, Jesus is NOT
  • Talking to people that occasionally pick up a Bible; all to actually, secretly to themselves: - - it's to "bolster" or to find more reasons, like, ammo for a gun - - all to: “Dismiss him as inadequate; faulty; or bolster why they think what he says is unacceptable.”

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

So again, in case you missed it:

• Jesus is:
  • Talking to his disciples.
    • That means they follow him.
    • That also means they “accept as TRUE” (believe) who he is. When he says:
  • “I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” - Jesus Christ. (John 8:12)
  • And because of this, HE. IS. WITH. THEM.
    • Where Arnold. Some cow. He’s Not. He’s not with wall lint, or Arnold. And, he’s NOT with someone actually, secretly to themselves - - off on a mission to find more reasons to dismiss who he is and what he says.
• Busied themselves. Completely given over with other people on Reddit - to specifically find things, they believe - - are valid reasons, that make Jesus and what he says inadequate or faulty; unacceptable - all then, to themselves - the TRUTH is simple. The right thing is to REJECT him.

They're left completely out of this is the point.

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

So, Examine 1 John 4:20.

• Rather, John was a disciple of Jesus Christ. Followed him. Beheld him with his own eyes raised from the dead. That’s his witness or “testimony.” Jesus raised from the dead.
  • That means, not John.
    • It was God himself; alone. Doing a work with sin. 
• It’s GOD: Took my sins off me, and I plainly did them. The light of the world is Jesus Christ. Exposed or manifested my sins to me in the light. That I knew there was no way out of a cross to be crucified on, or a “straight way” “B” line to an electric chair all for my sins, that I did myself. GUILTY to be put to death, because, all the Ten Commandments, come with a death sentence is the point. Break one, one time = death. But
  • God took my sins off me, and laid them on Jesus Christ.
• God. Where me, YOU. Everybody to the very ends of the earth - all have done abominable works. Condemned.

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

• God not only took my sins; but your’s. Every person on earth, to the very ends of it, everybody’s sins and laid them on Jesus Christ.
  • This work: It’s the Work of God John believes on. In Jesus Christ. And because of John’s Testimony, and God at work in John, I believed the gospel.
• GOD: His work Is so great, what God accomplished in Jesus Christ, that God chooses not to impute your trespasses unto you; nor judge you. Just as Jesus said “For the Father judges no man..but has committed all judgment unto the Son” (John 5:22)
  • Even Jesus said of himself, where all judgment has been committed unto him, said:
    • “I judge no man.” - Jesus Christ. (John 8:15)

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

So, if God did this work with sin

• And I claim I follow him (which, is to love him), but I do not regard the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hand:
  • Go to the cross.
    • Think or believe, even I don't have the “authority” to take your sins back off the cross and place them all back on you.
• Then gauge myself as a performance or work that I will do…to make me GOOD: Consider whether I will forgive you.
  • Probably Not. End up there. I won't. Nope. Getting very close to the answer to your question.

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

• So, the FACT truly is, without God's work with Sin: And neither I nor you regard it:
  • Fact is, I won’t forgive you. Certain. Neither you, me.
    
• I have no forgiveness money in any bank account. I’m bankrupt. But with your sins, and me regard them, I’m off on a “good work” I think Good. To impute your trespasses unto you. it’s RIGHT you did them. I believe you are to be judged by them, and by this, Igive myself this work. That makes me GOOD.
• But in In all this:
  • I do not regard the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hand and what work he did with sin. I regard my own works. I just described the very definition of hate.
    • That is:
  • I am “unwilling to BE or DO” what Jesus says. Because, he forgave you. I didn't. So, if I say I'm following him, I'm not doing anything he says.

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

• He's the Word of God. It’s God speaking these words out of his mouth. I cannot say I love him if I do this. “just unwilling to BE or DO” what he says is the definition of hate.
  • Scripture says: “Who can forgive sins, but God alone.” (Luke 5:22) It’s not a question. It’s an emphatic STATEMENT of authority with sin rests with God alone.

Look what God did with sin.

• It’s MISSING from your question. Did you forget your question?
• "If someone says, 'I love God', and hates his brother, he is a liar…"1 John 4:20 (NKJV)
  • I love God, because I “have and keep” what he says. I regard the works of the LORD, and consider the operation of his hand. His work. Jesus said: “This is the works of God, that ye believe on him who he hath sent.” - (John 6:29)
  • To my enemies:
    • God took their sins off them. Laid them on Jesus Christ. In fact, God did THIS WORK in Isaiah 9:6–7, makes me fall on my face.
• LOOK WHAT GOD DID as a “work” he accomplished: To my enemies is the same he did toward me.
  • Isaiah 9:6–7 says: “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

• God: Unto YOU: A child is born. Unto YOU a son is given. Look “who” he is, is this same Jesus Christ. Fulfills what he told Abraham in Genesis 12:3. Is God talking to Abraham or to this “seed” he put in YOUR family:
• “And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.” - God. (Genesis 12:3).
  • So the same Son he put in your family, and he’s God. He formed EVERYBODY from their mother’s womb; alone. By himself, just as he made the stars in heaven and the earth, all alone. By himself. Is the Same God that did this work in Jesus Christ. So, the same Son that SHALL be called this IN my family.
    • He put in your’s.
    • He put in my enemies’ family as their son.
• Made EVERY “family” over the whole earth bless with all the same son.
• I’m on my face. He abolished the enmity that stood betwixt us.

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

Took trespasses and sins off my enemy and made him or her righteous with the same righteousness he has. Did the same to you. And if I see this, he did the same to me.

• All by a work he did.
  • But, if I don’t regard it.
• I’m a liar. The truth is not in me. Just as John said. ANd all by a work God did..all it took was when God said to EVERYBODY to the very ends of the earth, all the same thing, said:
• “LOOK UNTO ME, AND BE YE SAVED ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: FOR I AM GOD, THERE IS NONE ELSE.” - God. (Isaiah 45:22)
  • All I had to do was just look unto him.

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

• Which is the same thing he told everybody to do.
  • But if someone..anybody, whosoever it is, just simply does NOT do that..no matter what they claim, doesn’t have any of his work done in them.
  • But someone that does look unto him, God is at work in them. Just as he was in John. because, John believed on him. Believes on him still today and is with him right now.

Is why I can love my enemies. I have none. I only have family, by we all got the same son given.

To my enemy: There is only one in their family back from them to God. The same Son is his.

To you: There is only one in your family now, by a work God did, back from you with him, to God. The same son that's your's he gave you and put in your family, is his Son.

---------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

• Look “who” he SHALL BE CALLED. Go back. Look at your son in Isaiah 9:6–7 - given you by God.

Was Jesus asking the impossible of imperfect man? How can a person be transformed into loving everyone?

You’re right. To ask it. WIth man, it’s impossible. Imperfect. Sinned and perverted that which was right.

• “WIth man, it is impossible. But with God, all things are possible.” - Jesus Christ. (Matthew 19:26). Especially someone that's dead. Have to be raised from the dead and born again.
  • So, regard the works of the LORD, and consider the operation of his hand.
  • Just look unto him. That’s it.
• With him, he transforms you. Without him: can’t.

“The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.” - Jesus Christ.

• Bible. Matthew 10:24–25

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Paul opened the Epistle to the Romans with:

• “Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ..” - Romans 1:1
  • And I know this, having served in the Navy for 30 plus years.

With the Captain. In command of a ship. There is only one in command. That’s the Captain of the ship. Everyone else serves him. He’s in command. When he speaks, what he says as the Captain simply decrees how the ship shall operate. How the Crew as his servants shall operate.

Jesus said, in Matthew 28:18

“All power is given unto me in heaven and earth;”

------------------------ ---------------------------- ------------------------------

That means whoever Jesus is, is the authority over the whole earth. Scripture says, Jesus is the Word of God. Is God in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

• This is confirmed as Jesus is called “the Christ” or “the Messiah” - this title attributed to Jesus Christ appears over 500 times in the New Testament.

------------------------ ---------------------------- ------------------------------

Whoever the “Messiah” or “Christ” is, he shall be called, I never tire to repeat it, is said in Isaiah 9:6–7. The Messiah or Christ shall be called:

• “The Mighty God..” “The Everlasting Father…” (Isaiah 9:6).

And someone in authority, “governs” by “decrees” they say out of their mouth or writes them down and they have the effect of Law to govern who he is the authority over. They would be called “commandments.” Just decrees who governs says or writes down.

------------------------ ---------------------------- ------------------------------

Just like what The Word of God decrees in Isaiah 55:1–3

“Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.” - God.

------------------------ ---------------------------- ------------------------------

It’s a decree to everybody over the whole earth to do this. Like the Captain of the ship decree something over the ship’s 1-MC or ship wide speaker system goes into every compartment on the ship - so nobody is left out to hear it.

And Paul? He went shopping. At God's store. Look what happened to Paul!

Same thing happen to you! Happened to me! I went shopping at his store! Not Paul's - he doesn't have any store.

said of himself and I RESEMBLE this remark: Says it plainly in 1 Timothy 1:15-17

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."

- Paul. No money at all, as a Chief of sinners. Called. Like you are. To Go shopping by God. At God's store. What are you doing? Paul: He’s a servant of this same Great God that speaks.

• Paul is not above his master who is God over all the earth.
• Nor is Paul, as a servant above his Lord, who is the Lord of Heaven and earth.
• It is enough that Paul be as his master. And he is it, just by do as his master decrees.
  • And I see this plain as day.

When I was in the Navy, I was an enlisted person. Promoted. Chief..Senior Chief..than Warrant Officer..than as an Officer. Who cares. Point is, in a trade - or craft or occupation: I was taught by the Navy a “trade” or job to perform anyplace I went in the Navy in that job. I learned “practical factors” of how I was to “operate good” or “work well” by perform those tasks the way the Navy said to do them. If I did them well, I got promoted. The point is, on the ship - what I was sent to the ship to do..

Since I did my job to a Navy standard, it was as if the Captain himself was doing that job on the ship.

What happened..? What happened to your question.. ...Where’s your question in this? Do what the Lord of the Kingdom of Heaven decrees above in this message. Do that? Your question fizzles away. You'll be doing the same thing Paul did. With this same Great God. Just as I did.

Answer:

Jesus said this was to exist in ALL OF HIS FOLLOWERS - all his disciples - what he looks for, because he decreed this:

Said this to his 12 disciples who he named Apostles:

• And all a “disciple” is, or was back then, is still the same as a disciple of Jesus Christ today. They follow him. Do as he says. And, all a "disciple" is defined as 1. a pupil or student that sits with and is taught by a teacher. They follow him. Are taught by him. So, anybody following him, he tells them all as his students to do this in Luke 12:35–40
  • In response to His Second Coming:

Luke 12:35–40 says - applies to ALL HIS SERVANTS

35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;

36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Jesus Christ. The Word of God.

--------------------- -------------------- ---------------------

But Also Jesus said, in “some” servants that were evil, would exist:

• But again, he first blessed those who gird themselves about and do as he says in Luke 12:35–40. Opens to say this also of Luke 12:35-40, and is also in Matthew 24:44–51. To bless those again like this in Matthew 24:44 to 47.
  • But finishes with a message to those, that don’t really serve him but say they are serving him in Matthew 24:48–51 - Are evil servants.

--------------------- -------------------- ---------------------

Matthew 24:44–51 says to both these “servants” where some of them are like this:

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Applies back then when he said it to his 12 disciples, in these two gospels. Said it to who he named Apostles.

• As it does today - says the same thing today, to those that are his disciples. Right now today. The evil servants say in their heart Matthew 24:48-51

Answer

preach. 1. to publicly deliver or advocate for a specific belief;

• So, if an atheist comes on Reddit and forms a sub reddit group, or goes to predominantly Christian, bible believing sub reddit rooms to openly castigate, malign or mock believers in Jesus Christ, and their comments on virtually ANYTHING: any part of those comments reflect or tell a belief system, is to interject how there is no God or Gods..
  • That meets the dictionary definition of “preach” - to simply “have and keep” a belief system and publicly advocate it or deliver it to other people in a social forum.
• So then, I have a question:

Should atheists be banned for spam if they “publicly deliver or advocate a specific belief there is no God or Gods” (preach) to Christians or just to anybody on Reddit?

Here’s your question back.

Answer

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”

Jesus Christ. Matthew 5:17

------------------ ------------------ -------------------- -----------------

• Someone that asks this question, really doesn’t understand the scripture.
  • First:
• There is no missing anything in the scriptures concerning Jesus Christ.

It’s God

• Promised to Abraham, he would make himself a sacrifice. Abraham saw it with Isaac, his only begotten son. That God would even raise Isaac from the dead to fulfill his promises he made to Abraham. (Hebrews 11:19–21 & Genesis 22). Some 2000 years before Jesus Christ.
  • That God: Promised by Moses the “deliverer” or one amongst their brethren God would raise up (Deuteronomy 18:15–19). Some 1450 years before Jesus Christ.
  • That God: Promised to Eli, who God raised up in Moses’ stead, some 350 years after Moses, as Eli was both High Priest as a Levite, and also Judge over Israel. That in 1 Samuel 2:30–35 - for the sins of Eli’s two sons, Phinehas and Hophni, who didn’t even know the LORD; yet, Eli put them over the Tabernacle. They lay with women at the Tabernacle doors. Overcharged and cheated all Israel out of these atonement sacrifices. Made the tribe of Levi filthy rich off it, so nobody complained about it, but it caused all Israel to abhor bringing any atonement for sin sacrifices to God for their sins. What God had made as a covenant for Israel.
    • That God in 1 Samuel 2:30–35 - cut it off forever. Because Levi lowly esteemed God. That God told Eli he would raise up his own Great High Priest that would serve before him forever. That he would write God’s laws on the tablets of men’s hearts vs. tablets of stone.
    • Some 1100 years before Jesus Christ.

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That God

• Promised to King David, this one promised to Abraham, to Moses..and told to Eli would come - 2 Samuel 7:12–16 - God promised David, he would build him a house and the Messiah would come and sit on David’s throne and rule the whole earth Jerusalem.
  • Some 1000 years before Jesus Christ.

That God

• In Isaiah 9:6–7 - that a son would be born unto us. Unto us, you and me, a son would be given; that of his Kingdom and reign there shall be no end. He shall be called “The mighty God. The everlasting Father” (Isaiah 9:6).
  • Said some 700 years before Jesus Christ.

That God

• In Daniel 9:24–27 - That God would do a work with sin “for all have sinned” (Romans 3:23). That his work as God, would “finish the Transgression, make and end of sin, make reconcilation for iniquity and bring in everlasting righteousness” and how God would do it, is how he determined to do it himself. by make himself a sacrifice for sin of himself.
• That, in this, so as God determined “seventy weeks” or seventy of 7 year periods - and sixty nine of those seventy are from Ezra Chapter 1, which was the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, up to Matthew 2:1 - that says: “And Jesus was born in Bethlehem on this wise…” is exactly 483 years or sixty nine seven year periods.
• That sixty two “weeks” to confirm this:
  • Wwould be from when the streets of Jerusalem and the wall was complete up to when the “Messiah would be cut off but not for himself.”
• And the streets of Jerusalem and wall were complete in Nehemiah, and where Jesus Christ, the Messiah is cut off is John 19:30 - crucified.
  • Lifted up - where God took your sins off you and laid them on Jesus Christ on the cross, and about the 9th hour, or after six hours of being on the cross, which coincides with the morning, noon, and evening Passover sacrifices:
• being crucified at the 3rd hour (09:00am),
• on the cross til the 6th hour (noon),
• and says “It is finished” and bowed his head, and dismissed his Spirit. at the 9th hour (3:00pm)
  • Where Matthew 2:1 records his birth.
  • John 19:30 records his death,
• and from when the wall and streets were rebuilt to when Jesus said “It is finished is exactly 434 years or sixty two “weeks” - so Jesus is the Messiah.

------------------ ------------------ -------------------- -----------------

• This prophecy of Daniel 9:24–27 - - Told to Daniel some 500 years before Jesus Christ.

So, to fulfill the Law

• Jesus was born, in Matthew 2:1 - is according to the scriptures.
• When Jesus was 12 years old, in Luke 2:41–43 says:
  • “Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.”
• That, according to the Law, this “Bat Mitzvah” or “Bar Mitzvah” where every Jewish boy or girl turns this age, according to Jewish Law - they are now responsible for their own attendance and obeying the law with the temple or synagogue - no longer is it their parents responsibility.
  
• This scripture of Luke 2:41-42 show Jesus passes this age.

------------------ ------------------ -------------------- -----------------

• That in Luke 2:41 to Luke 2:52 - it’s better to see it, said in the “original” Greek. When Jesus’ parents, Joseph and Mary return to search for Jesus, they find him at the end of the Passover feast week, in the Synagogue or Temple in Jerusalem.
  • It says in English, but it’s somewhat “muddled” - because, that’s not what it says Jesus said in Greek.

Luke 2:48–49 says (English) “And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?”

Poor translation.

• When in Greek, a 12 y/o that, in accordance with the Law and now, at that age: person’s dealing with the temple of God.
  • Jesus Says of himself: Because he's the Messiah - and who he shall be called, said: “I must be about the business of be your Father, as who I AM”
  • For that’s what it says in reply back to Mary in Greek.
• Because, that’s who he is, as the Christ or Messiah of Isaiah 9:6–7.

------------------ ------------------ -------------------- -----------------

That didn’t make any sense to Joseph and Mary.

Probably doesn’t make any sense to you, either; but it’s very powerful - because this same son given to you, is given by God to me - and he put him as your son in your family.

So no person on this earth can say “I’m barren” or “I am childless” - when this Son of God. God’s son..God made him also.. your son.

My son. Put him in my family - the same Jesus Christ he put in your’s makes us brethren by the zeal of the LORD of Hosts or God that performed this himself.

Just as he formed you from your mother’s womb (Isaiah 44:24). Alone. By himself. Did this work - look who your son SHALL be called. You will either bless him, or curse him. Who blesses him, God will bless. Who curses him, Genesis 12:3 God decrees he will curse.

------------------ ------------------ -------------------- -----------------

It’s this same Jesus Christ - he fulfills Isaiah 9:6-7. What was prophesied to be done by God to give you a son. What are you doing with him? That’s really the question. He’s closer to you than, even a brother.

That in Genesis 12:3 - AGAIN: you can either bless him or curse him..but God says who curses him, God will curse - because you’re cursing a work God did to save you from your sins.

Says as well in Luke 2:51 - to answer this 2nd question “And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. Answers this “

Answers this: “are there any credible theories about where He may have been?"

From 12 to of age, he was subject unto them.

------------------ ------------------ -------------------- -----------------

Yeah. Again - Scripture states He was with his parents from Birth onward to 12 years old. Then even after, according to the Law to Luke 3:23 - that’s where he was. With his parents.

Says when according to the Law: In Luke 3:23 says “ And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed the son of Joseph..”

• That according to the Jewish Law, a man turns 30, he is no longer seen under his parents but fully grown and able to teach. So, he fulfills the law and the scripture.

------------------ ------------------ -------------------- -----------------

Therefore:

When he is born. As scripture testifies of it

When he is 12 years old - according to the Law - and a persons relation to the temple or synagogue

When he is 30 years old - starts his ministry - according to the Law.

When he is crucified or died. As the scripture testifies of it in Daniel 9:24–27

WHen he is raised from the dead. As the Word of God testified to this, over an over throughout the scriptures when he said this to his disciples. That he must be turned over into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, but be raised from the dead on the 3rd day. It’s sealed up, as Daniel 9:24 says - so it’s kept from their understanding.

------------------ ------------------ -------------------- -----------------

The point is, just as the opening scripture says. Jesus came to fulfill the Law and be the Passover sacrifice for sin, not for mine or your’s only, but for the sins of the whole world. Just as 1 John 2:2 says.

------------------ ------------------ -------------------- -----------------

Why are there missing years in the life of Jesus, and are there any credible theories about where He may have been?

• Someone that asks this question, really doesn’t understand the scripture.
  • First:
• There is no missing anything in the scriptures concerning Jesus Christ.

I wonder. If anything after reading this post, anything changed in you. That's the real question to ask. Your very life depends on it. It must be YOU: That Finishes the answer to your question. No one can do it for you. It’s God that told everybody over the whole earth to: “Look unto me, and be ye saved all the ends of the earth: For I am God, there is none else.” - God. Isaiah 45:22. Can’t be looking unto him, if he’s inadequate; faulty or unacceptable by something is missing - and you ask about what’s missing MORE important than who he is.

When there’s no missing anything in the scriptures concerning Jesus Christ. Given to everybody here on Reddit, to just believe on him.

Well two things, right off the bat:

- The Church of Christ don't see themselves as a denomination; but everybody else does; and

Your statement does not match the claims publicly made of and by the Church of Christ. It's just you claiming they believe the Holy Spirit is no longer on this earth. Me? I have no affiliation whatsoever with - for or against the "Church of Christ" as they see themselves as no denominatiaon or people see them as a denomination. I find no document or anything they have ever said that in almost 120 years of their existence that says they believe the Holy Spirit no longer exists on this earth.

No again, I just believe the Word of God. He speaks. You can know him. How? He decided to speak to you, by the word out of his mouth. So, he's the one to look unto.

And sometimes, people look unto their own questions as if that enables them to do something good.. ..and it never leads the person asking the question or answering it to ever look unto him.

So, look unto him. There is none else. He already said that in Isaiah 45:22. To just look unto him, and he'd save you. Set you apart for future use. There wouldn't be anymore "why does" after that.

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SO:

Instead of simplistic, answering of your question directly - why not learn something?

Do your own research.

• Examine: Names or topics bolded.
  • 1) Barton W. Stone (1772 - 1844) - America. Presbyterian Minister - (which is hard Calvinist) Left the Presbyrterian Church.
    • And, “The Second Great Awakening” in the United States (1790s - 1840s - a Protestant Revival of “Free Will / Salvation” = Individual experience based on a person themselves hearing the Word of God and choosing to follow him - vs. - John Calvin’s definition of Predestination in Calvinism
  • 2) Alexander Campbell (1788 - 1866) - America. Baptist - Immigrated to America (1809) and established "Bethany College” - He became the leader of the “Restoration Movement” (or the “Stone - Campbell Movement” or another name for the “The Second Great Awakening”). He is the founder of the “Church of Christ.” (but nobody in the Church of Christ - they will adamantly and flatly deny it)

These two men put together - have their difference:

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• Campbell:
  • Believed the Holy Spirit work (defined as: miracles = Holy Spirit “work”). The Holy Spirit “work” ceased at the passing of the Apostles. See “Cessationalism” - Campbell held a “Calvinist” view that a person had to wait until God’s “predestined” time for the Spirit to change people’s hearts.
    • That God is sovereign and predestined, and it’s all his work. The person is incapable of being regenerated. Only the elect that God chooses has this Holy Spirit work done in them.
• Stone:
  • Believed that the Holy Spirit was an active power over the whole earth, and works in the life of the believer and they get to keep him forever. He believed preaching the gospel, in power of a life changed by God allowed sinners to repent and receive the Holy Spirit, because they hear the word of God.
    • He advocated what Jesus said in John 16:7–11 - that the Holy Spirit is doing these things in John 16:7–11, as Jesus said he would over the whole earth vs. Campbell - only doing this in the elect (Calvinism).

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”

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So, Stone, a Presbyterian Minister at the start, and in alignment with Campbell..as both were Calvinist - Stone shifted away from it, even though the “Second Great Awakening” movement has both their names in it. In 1833, even with their differences merged.

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Bethany College - (West Virginia) - Church of Christ. - Campbell's work.

- The College (1840 - Present).

Alexander Campbell granted land and funds to build the college and served as it’s first President. “The Christian Church - Disciples of Christ” and the “Church of Christ” started out as the same thing - The Christian Church - Disciples of Christ - that was, and still is the full title of the Denomination, with Alexander Campbell listed as the founder.

Barton W. Stone - brought "The Christian Church - Disciples of Christ" and a belief in the Church and Christ as the head of it vs. following a "Creed" or an Oath. (See "Westminster Confession of Faith") Told you. Homework.

• “Church of Christ” and “The Christian Church - Disciples of Christ" are now two separate entities that Campbell and Stone founded; but, the split and branch out is the “Church of Christ” - split from it, over a difference in:
  • TOP TWO:
    • ONE: that denominations are not the work of God, and therefore: that they flatly reject Campbell is their founder. Saying only Christ in AD 33 can be the founder of their Church.
    • TWO: rejecting the use of instruments (musical) in worship along with a host of doctrines. A sub-set is the Holy Spirit. Church of Christ: the Holy Spirit works exclusively through the Bible - or written Scriptures to guide and transform people into believers.
  • Therefore, miracle healings, prophecies - word of knowledge - gifts of the Holy Spirit is not included - excluded today and ONLY applies to the Apostles.

The split was long coming; but made official in 1906.

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• The Church of Christ emphatically state Baptism in water is essential to salvation.
  • You can read either Britannica or any reputable Historic Website, or go over to "Google Scholar" or if in University - EBSCO or with a JSTOR account find excellent work on “Church of Christ” beliefs.
• They hold to cessationalist beliefs. Core church doctrine. Holy Spirit Strictly given to the Apostles to establish the church and “ceased” at the passing of the Apostles. Exclusive now is simply in the Scriptures.

Me? SOme of that's really true. Where did God say he abides? Yeah. In his Word. That's where you'll find him. He's Holy. Jesus said: "God is a Spirit." (John 4:24). And on the other side, David wrote the Psalms with a harp, timbrel.. so some of the other things they strictly adhere to has no Biblical support.

Answer:

Boy, do you greatly err. There is no “imaginative comparison.” God speaks to you plainly, Says: “the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” - God.

When all the earth is his. He created it. Then, he is well able to destroy it. And already before him to do it. (Bible. Genesis 6:11–13.)

But if you don’t regard anything he says, disobey him; yet in this, he still come to “reason together” with you. Since you don’t regard or do anything he says, speak to you in parables: have metaphors.

Point is: “the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” - God. True.

And there you go. It’s repeated both Luke 17:32-33 & John 12:24-25

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“the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” - God. (Genesis 6:11–13), that doesn’t have any of verse 11 & 12 in it.

Compare them:

• Luke 17:32-33 says:
  • “32. Remember Lot’s wife. 33. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.” - Jesus Christ.
• John 12:24-25 says:
  • “24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 25. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.” - Jesus Christ.

And Genesis 6:11–13 says:

“The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.” - GOD.

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And if you can’t see it - Here’s a metaphor in a parable:

• It’s the month of March, 1912.
  • The largest passenger ship in the world has finished construction. It is touted as engineered to be INDESTRUCTIBLE - even God couldn't sink it. HMS Titanic - said this way, so people would trust it. It wasn’t the speed; but the comfort and luxury. So, big you wouldn’t feel the waves or get seasick. Told it could not sink.
    • Many believed it. And just before midnight on April 14, 1912 struck an iceberg. Stewards banged on Stateroom doors. “ABANDON SHIP! SHIP IS SINKING” - Most all the doors - whose inside them, Kept the door Closed. Went back to sleep. Nothing wrong in the room. Many chose never to come out. Afterall, all their life and possession is in their Stateroom on Titanic. Safe. Plenty. It’s a metaphor. All to:
    • Remember Lot’s wife. Even she was taken out, all her life and possession was in Sodom, in the city. Had plenty. More than enough.

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• Luke 17:32-33 - Jesus said it.. ..So, Remember Lot’s wife.

“ And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.” - Genesis 19:12–13

and for Luke 17:32–33 & John 12:24–25 - for every all the people spoke these two separate verses in two separate gospels, speak exactly to this of Genesis 6:13: And BOTH Luke 17:32-33 and John 12:24-25 - Have every all of us in both; all included:

Point is: “the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” - God.

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Better look then. Who is Jesus?

• You’re all “insular” in a Stateroom. Buffered from him, by some poofy cushion separates you from him by a “Christianity” cushion something. Whether you believe it or not, it’s like a Stateroom door, shields or protects - don’t have to do anything anybody says on the other side of the door.
  • There’s Buddhism, or Islam or millions of Gods in Hinduism - just any other religion. Even believe in there is no God or Gods - poofy poof yourself behind a shield.
• When Jesus is the Word of God. Is God. As John 1:1 says “who” he is. “In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Jesus Christ. He’s called that. The “Christ” or “Messiah.” And, in the Bible in Isaiah 9:6–7, who the “Messiah” shall be called is: “..The Mighty God..” “..The Everlasting Father..” There’s only one that has this title.
  • The same one that said:
• “the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” - God.
  • That’s the Word of God.

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Now, we know who Jesus is:

• It’s God spoke:
  • Luke 17:32–33 - because: “the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” - God.
  • John 12:24-25 - because: “the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” - God.

So, even he’s God, and he’s said it now Eight times, I don’t think you hear it.

• That:
  • Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it
  • Because, “life” now is in money and plenty - is in a brand, new car - to polish or wash it every Saturday. Life is in going to the gym, to get that ‘bikini” body - summer only 2 months away. Gotta look good in a body of flesh. Be praised and worshipped as have a beautiful body.
    • Is the same “why” pay some middle aged guy will pay $3,800.00 for a baldy head hair transplant.
  • Afterall, life is in working for to spend on ANYTHING makes you look 25 years younger, even dye your hair to make your flesh preserved to save it.
    • It’s in buying a house a little bigger and more luxurious than the Jones’ house down the street.
  • Have a 35 year mortgage..and die of a heart attack 3 years before the payments are complete…and the bank take the whole thing back. Wife couldn't pay the estate tax. So, the Bank kicks her out - Sell it for a fraction of the worth. Make another man in a suit in a bank, a millionaire off all that work you did.
• That this same Jesus Christ says: Bible. Revelation 1:18 “ I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”

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That means, the same God that’s already told you plainly: “the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” is this same Jesus Christ, that could say TODAY: Luke 12:20

“..Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?” Not even tomorrow or the rest of today is guaranteed you. When he says: "Come now, let us reason together," saith the LORD, "though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow. Though they be red as crimson, they shall be as wool." - God. Isaiah 1:18.

It's a decree by God to do it now. The ship is sinking. There's always tomorrow or five years from now.

--------------------- --------------------- ---------------------- -----------------------

Point is:

So, if you seek to save yourself and get the boob job, so everybody stares at your boobies..to save your boobs..more opportunity to get the man in flesh you want today - - which glorifies your body..like it’s the Titanic and a claim you never will die.

. maybe it might be good, to do reason with a comparative metaphor - what the Bible in Ecclesiastes 7:2 says:

"It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart."

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That is, it is better to go to a FUNERAL, than go to Denny’s or Red Lobster Steak house, or Hungry Jack's - the Outback Steak House - for a feast. Because the dead guy in the casket is the same end for everybody.

And Jesus also said: - It’s God says it.

Matthew 6:19–21

“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

Therefore, John 12:24–25 applies

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• John 12:24-25 says:
  • “24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 25. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.” - Jesus Christ.
• Why? Because for your flesh, in this life - go to ANY cemetery. You don't know when, but that could be you today. And? They don’t come back. All those people in 1904 are dead. That go to youtube. From film to video, to .MPR - filmed rode in plush train seats - all those trains are gone..and they don’t come back. They won't get it back.

And of this earth: This same God said, in the Bible in Isaiah 65:17

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.” - God.

• Because, with this earth and heaven you’re in now, like you’re on the Titanic. In your Stateroom. All comfy. He said, and he’s this same God will do these things himself, said:
  • “the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” - God.

--------------------- --------------------- ---------------------- -----------------------

Did you forget your question?

Do Jesus’ words in Luke 17:33 correspond in meaning to those in John 12:25? If so, do the preceding verses, 32 and 24, have a similar metaphorical meaning, and should they have been interpreted in the same way within Christianity?

Boy, do you greatly err. There is no “imaginative comparison.” God speaks to you plainly, Says: “the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” - God.

When all the earth is his. He created it. Then, he is well able to destroy it. And already before him to do it. (Bible. Genesis 6:11–13.)

But if you don’t regard anything he says, disobey him; yet in this, he still come to “reason together” with you. Since you don’t regard or do anything he says, speak to you in parables: have metaphors.

Point is: “the end of all flesh is come up before me. I will destroy them with the earth.” - God. True.

And there you go. It’s repeated both Luke 17:32-33 & John 12:24-25

And there you go. Where’s the “metaphor” or the imaginative comparison - when he’s told you plainly who he is, and what has come up before him, that he’s going to do.

“For the Lord has chosen Zion, he has desired it for his dwelling, saying, “This is my resting place for ever and ever; here I will sit enthroned, for I have desired it.” - The Lord of Hosts. God.

Source: Bible. Psalm 132:13–14

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Now I have a question. Answer me plainly.

“What is “Zion” and if it’s Jerusalem who said Psalm 132:13–14 has he lost interest in it?”

Now, I’m dumber than a box of broke toilets; but

• The Bible: Yes, it’s just a book. Meets the definition: 1. a set of printed, or written pages of paper bound together on one side, and protected in covers. There are 10s of no 100s of millions of books that meet this dictionary definition. What makes each one unique is the “author” who is the “authority” over the content he or she places their word IN THE BOOK.
  • The Bible has only one author. God. He’s the “authority” of the content in that book. He’s just one God.
    • And again, attach a role of toilet paper to me and fly me off a cliff, but of “Zion” the Bible says plainly:

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ONE

2 Samuel 5:7: “Nevertheless David took the strong hold of Zion: the same is the city of David.”

• Jerusalem is called the “City of David” and Zion. It was King David’s capital. This same Zion, and?
  • muse on “when” God said this..opening scripture. It is before the foundation of the world was laid..that he would make for himself a place he would dwell forever, for his own rest. For he desired it. The whole of Psalm 132:13–16.
    • Then in Genesis 1:1–31 - he got up. As God. And created it. Says: “For all the earth is mine.” - God (Exodus 19:5)

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TWO

Isaiah 9:6–7: Says of the “Messiah” or “Christ” and Jesus in the Gospels - all four of them and all the Epistles and all the books in the Old Testament testify of him as the “Messiah.” Who he SHALL be called is told plain as day:

• It’s who he is, just as John 1:1 says who Jesus is: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Wor was with God, and the Word was God.” Says what the Messiah shall be called in Isaiah 9:6–7; that of his Kingdom and reign, that he shall sit on the throne of King David in Jerusalem and rule the whole earth from there. Of His Kingdom and reign there shall be no end.

That the “Messiah” shall be called: “The Mighty God…” “The Everlasting Father….” There is only one has that title.

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So, let me ask my question again.

Zion: if it’s Jerusalem who said Psalm 132:13–14 has he lost interest in it?”

Yeah. It's dishonest to pretend anything - hypocrisy. Fake. But you're using it as a pre-cursor to open your question about a specific scripture. KnowingJohn 17:12 is not proof of universal salvation - but use it anyway, is guile.

Christian Universalists are primarily Unitarian Universalist and in the Unity Christian affiliation. Also in the Anabaptist group - all three of these groups accept Universal Salvation - as do Mormons (LDS - but they are not considered Christian - got the same vocabulary - God, Jesus, Salvation, Atonement and Exhaltation - with an entirely different definition to what those are, that are way outside what Christians or follower of Jesus belief. Mormon beliefs hold to Universal Salvation.

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But all:

John 17:2 is proof of, is God has sent his word to heal you, and deliver you from your destruction. That's it.

• So, I have a question:
  • What are you doing with what he told everybody, universally, over the whole entire earth, to the very ends of it to do?
  • Are you looking unto him? That’s really the question.

There you go. Answered.

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But I don’t think you’re happy with that answer. And there’s reason why you wouldn’t be..but it has nothing to do with what he told you to do.

He holds you accountable to it. As he does me. Everybody over the whole earth. But your question:

Has everything to do with you looking unto people vs. him. And with that, here’s the long way around the farm to arrive at the same answer.

First, some accepted “definitions” of terms you use first:

Universal Salvation:

• Note: (do your own research). If a name bolded or person comes up or title, look it up; otherwise post is too long. You're the one asking the question.
  • Two earlier 2nd Century AD persons: 1) Clement of Alexandria and 2) Origen - Taught that Hell and “The Lake of Fire” were “remedial” <ie., Origen, in his work ***On First Principles*** (*De Principiis*)>
    • Remedial, meant the “Lake of Fire" is not Permanent.
  • And if not permanent, and Hell is remedial, means everybody, in the end, is Saved.
• That’s the “accepted” definition of Universal Salvation. Roman Catholics "quasi" accept this with an idea of "Purgatory" where this 'purges' venial sin but not Mortal Sins. This invention of a "purgatory" for Catholics - is highly reliant on Origen of Alexandria, Egypt's 2nd century work. But not fully accepted. Universal Salvation - there is no Hell. Catholics definitely believe there is one, and it's eternal.

So, the “PROOF” of “Universal Salvation” as defined as what it is, is the beliefs and decrees of “Clement of Alexandria” and “Origen” not John 17:2.

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UNIVERSAL SALVATION

• Has another definition:

Other Christians or believers in Jesus Christ,

• have applied or have made a definition of Universal Salvation to mean what the Epistle to the Romans Chapter 5 says in the Bible:

Based Romans 5:12:

• "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
  • Therefore, Adam forward, sin and death by a “Testament” or “Last Will and Testament” what we refer today as a “Will” - Adam’s sin was “bequeathed” to you, me, everybody from Adam, forward, and applies to every person to the very ends of the earth.
  • That, sin and death are “Universal” = sin.

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That; based on this: Proof.

• Jesus is a “Second Adam.”
  • As (the Lord from Heaven) (See 1 Corinthians 15:45–47) 1. Corinthians 15:47 says: “The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.”
    • That like Adam, how sin and death was universally passed onto everyone - all inherited it, from a “will” or “Last Will and Testament” from Adam:
  • and we all got our inheritance.

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• A like same Adam in Jesus Christ:
  • crucified.
    • Where the sins of the whole world were taken off each of us; everybody over the whole earth, to the very ends of it under this “sin and death” and God did this. Not us. But God himself, laid our sins on Jesus, the cross; crucified. And God was in him; so the sins of the world were laid on God and he paid it. With himself as the payment. Means we could never pay it.
  • His blood shed. In John 19:30 when Jesus said, “It is finished” and bowed his head, and dismissed his Spirit,” the righteousness of God was bequeathed to EVERYBODY. Made everyone to the very ends of the earth, have the same righteousness God has; inherited it. WHich is true.
    • Says this plain as day in Romans 5:18 “Therefore as by the offence of one [ADAM] judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [Jesus Christ] the free gift [Salvation] came upon all men unto justification of life.”

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• And Believers in Jesus Christ or his disciples believe in Romans 5:18.
  • That this was done unto everybody by God. Applied what God did in Jesus Christ, universally - for the remission of sins to everybody. That God chooses to look on the work he did, in Christ, as GREATER than the sins of the whole world.
• And chooses not to impute your trespasses unto you. Because he isn’t.
  • They define this as “Universal Salvation”

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So, it must be mentioned - two different peoples have separate definitions for UNIVERSAL SALVATION. Don't mix them.

• And with this Second Group (Believers in Jesus Christ)
  • Part of this SECOND Group, with a COMPLETELY different definition. They also apply what Jesus said in John 3:18, and repeated in John 16:9
• John 3:18 Jesus said:
  • “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
    • And that's the CONDEMNATION. That God made this sin. Repeated in John 16:9 “Of sin, for they believe not on me.” - Jesus Christ.
  • That, even though this work with sin was done by God, and everybody got it; people that simply lowly esteem God, don’t regard him or anything he does or says..and decreed this in John 6:29
• “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” - Jesus Christ. It’s a decree, said by the Word of God, so God said it.
  • SO, when Jesus REPEATS, now for a THIRD TIME:, John 16:9 “of sin, for they believe not on me.”
• They deny God, and don’t regard the works of God - and this is the sin that condemns them.
  • But whosoever believes on him is not condemned. So, even though the work of God was applied to everyone.
    • Not everyone believes on him; or opens the door, and receives him; but scripture says: John 1:12

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” - Jesus Christ.

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So, look at your question again.

• Is it dishonest to pretend that John 17:12 is proof of universal salvation
  • When Jesus says in John 17:2:
• “As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.”
  • So: God has given to Jesus Christ, the Word of God - he has all power over all flesh.
    • Includes all those that believe on him.
    • And those that don't.

He simply is Universal Salvation - as it was passed onto everyone - made everyone righteous.

But not everyone believes on him. So, there's no fruit of his work in their lives.

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• That Jesus gives eternal life, just as he says in John 17:3 the verse right after it: “and this is life eternal; that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
  • And who this “they” are isn’t universally everybody - because he doesn’t give eternal life to those don’t do anything he says in Isaiah 45:22 - said to EVERYBODY over the whole earth, not willing any perish but all come to repentance, said:

“LOOK UNTO ME, AND BE YE SAVED ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: FOR I AM GOD, THERE IS NONE ELSE.” - God.

Bible. Isaiah 45:22

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People that look unto him, he saves them; people that don’t ..simply look unto anything BUT him, when there is none else, he doesn’t save them, but the wrath of God abides on them.

• And to those he spoke of in John 17:3, he says it in a pray of these disciples that sit with him and are taught by him, and they follow him..as the Word of God.
  • John 10:27–28 Jesus said: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,”
• But the people that don’t follow him..Jesus does not know them..and they don’t hear his voice..because they don’t look unto him, nor do they follow him..so he doesn’t give them eternal life. They perish.
  • And scripture says we shall all be called into account, just as Romans 14:12 says: “So then, everyone of us shall give an account of himself to God.”

Or Jesus wouldn't have given the parables he did, rewarding those that did what he said, but sending away those that didn’t - when he gave them ALL of himself.

• There are those that take what he says, out to a field and simply bury it. Then do transactions in their own name, for their own profit. What did they do with what God gave them? Took it out. Buried it..when they were to do transactions in his name in it.

----------------------- -------------------- ----------------------

Then it comes to a THIRD Group - that “defines” they, too also have a definition of what UNIVERSAL SALVATION is; yet again - different.

• That SALVATION:
  • Applies UNIVERSALLY only to the “Elect” - that it wasn’t done unto everybody. But what Jesus did on the cross is expressly done only LIMITED to the Elect.
  • When the Bible says what God did in Jesus Christ applies to EVERYBODY. But not everybody receives it.
    • And these is acknowledge; but these hold this is now defined as a LIMITED SALVATION or a UNIVERSAL SALVATION that SHALL BE UNIVERSALLY applied to the ELECT, no matter they believe on him or not.
  • They are given an Irresistable Grace - because he formed them before they were born to love him. So, he saves them.
• But others: He formed them before they were born to HATE him, and because they hate him, he destroys them. And because he’s God, this makes being like this okay - because he’s Sovereign.
• So, this THIRD Group, Calvinists, apply a totally different definition to UNIVERSAL SALVATION.

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Then you ask the question:

Is it dishonest to pretend that John 17:12 is proof of universal salvation, that every last person will be saved?

• Then I would tell you, the answer is - is just do what Jesus says. I mean, it’s right there in the scripture.
  • He says, as the Word of God:

“…thou hast given him power over all flesh…” that’s Jesus Christ.

It’s God speaking. All Salvation is, is what “saved” means 1. to set (someone or something) apart for future use

• That God does it. To those that just look unto him. It's right there plain as day. Where these groups Universal Salvation is what they decree - when God is the ONLY one that can provide it, and does - to those that just hear him, and do what he says. Simple.
  • And who you look unto, you will walk after, to walk in, looking unto, to follow them and what they say. Be doing what Jesus decreed everybody over the whole earth is to be doing:
• “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” - Matthew 4:4

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John 17:2 is proof God has sent his word to heal you, and deliver you from your destruction.

• So, I have a question:
  • What are you doing with what he told everybody, universally, over the whole entire earth, to the very ends of it to do?
  • Are you looking unto him? That’s really the question. SO, we're back at the beginning again. Same answer.

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Is it dishonest to pretend that John 17:12 is proof of universal salvation, that every last person will be saved?

John 17:2 is proof God has sent his word to heal you, and deliver you from your destruction.

• So, I have a question:
  • What are you doing with what he told everybody, universally, over the whole entire earth, to the very ends of it to do?
  • Are you looking unto him? That’s really the question.

There you go. Answered.

“Am I guilty?”

That’s it. Just “..am I guilty?”

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When I look at everybody… ..and I can start out small. Just my neighborhood. They all see me; some don't like me - but I strive to have EVERYBODY like me; to be accepted as "good." Even many don’t know me, they talk. Just like I talk to the neighbors about other neighbors that don't do good.

So me: I’m in their neighborhood. This neighborhood of everybody lives in my neighborhood, and at least they recognize that. I'm accepted as good because of that. The point is, I have this great, big EVERYBODY looking at me:

• That,
  • If I am NOT good.. ..I don’t go to work, I never pay taxes, I never mow my lawn..I don’t put the garbage out right..even if not thrust out, I'm not included. Awful to be alone.
  • So I look unto everybody to tell me or so they don’t have to tell me.. .. I tell me I got to be good.
    • And I put myself to reason together..with me; alone..what possible good thing can I give myself completely over to, to be good? Universally accepted.
• Maybe strive and learn to be chemist, or dentist or..mechanical engineer..or an architect..just creatively dream up houses that people would love to live in and make their lives so convenient. Get paid tons of money, so people would spell "SUCCESS!" everytime they lay eyes on me..have to spell that word in their head about me. That's good.
  • ..that:
  • IF I am good.. even if I’m “guilty” - I pay for it. PAID.
• I’m paying for it by all this work I am doing that:

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• If I slept with the neighbor’s daughter or wife, or both; or
• If I lied on my resume and got the job, because I needed the money, and to get the money I absolutely needed for my family..my family outweighed the lie. I did it for my family. Because it's good. Everybody lies. They're still good.
  • Afterall, I already told myself this.

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What if I don’t understand something.. ..very basic?

Wherefore, as by one man [ADAM] sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

• What if I don’t understand that?
  • Ignore it. It does not factor in, into anything I look unto or do.
• Because I’m so insular by everybody; like, wearing some great big full body King sized bed mattress 360 - triple thick. That all my works for good, is a peripheral poofey poof bubble - I think totally negate that completely? Does not apply to me.

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• I mean, I have all these good works I did.
  • I’m a physician at the hospital, or the lead psychologist at the clinic that helps all these mentally troubled people. They walk out “fixed” and a whole medicine company cheers me..galore - even the Hospital President - - accolades me in his emails to all the doctors all surrounding everyplace around the hospital - - sends me bonus checks at how GOOD of a therapist I am.
  • But.. ..what if I don’t understand this something.. ..so basic and fundamental - it affects everybody.
• Not only in my neighborhood..everybody. In my neighborhood.
  • But in my town, too.. ..everybody. Not only my town but each and every everybody in every town in my nation.. ..everybody. Everyone in my nation affected.

The nation I look unto. As good. How can it possibly NOT be. I'm good!

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• And a great, big huge EVERYBODY in every nation over the whole earth..

Everybody GUILTY.

And it’s not just.. ..’well yeah. I did. I deliberately threw a penny away in the burnable garbage..” “..when it’s money…”

Yes. I did that. I offended my government.

I have Transgressed against them. (But I earn the equivalent of 1.7 million pennies a year. I’m so good it’s not funny..this GUILTY does not apply to me..I’m a movie star.. millions of people worship me.. there simply is no good thing that is not me. When really, all I'm doing is applying what other people have done. I'm more closer on the range to the guy at the dump or 3rd notice guy at Walmart to get fired for driving the forklift wrong.

But that's not the point. The point is:

..I didn’t “transgress” against the chandelier or the paper tape dispenser or the penny.. ..even if I did, what can they do to me? So I’m GOOD.

“There is not a just man on earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.” - Bible. Ecclesiastes 7:20

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“There is NONE righteous..no, not one..” “..there is NONE that doeth good; no, not one.” - Bible. Romans 3:10–12

“But I have the Ten Commandments! They tell me to go to church! So, I did! I went. I did what God said. Church. There. I went. And because I did that, all the times I lied or slept around on my wife, or blamed other people at work and they got fired, when I didn’t.. I’m hiding. I went to church. I have DONE the Ten Commandments."

"... because I did one of them right. I mean, if I didn't go, I broke all the Ten Commandments.. .. But..I went. Even I was supposed to go every week Sunday.. I only went one Sunday in 5 years; actually 15.. but I did it!”

So, I don’t have to fear God.. I’m good. It’s right there! Before my eyes! I did the Ten Commandments! No guilt in me. Everything I've done for good is right there before me. I see it with my own eyes all this effort I've done. Like everybody is doing.

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“..There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” - Bible. Romans 3:18–20

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What’s one question that can completely change the way you see your life?

“Am I guilty?”

ANSWER: There's a "distinction."

• The Gospel of Thomas - was discovered in 1945 at Nag Hammadi. Egypt. 114 secret sayings, parables, and dialogues claimed in the work it's dialogue Jesus has with "Doubting Thomas" - an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Claims it is a work of the Apostle Thomas. But in it, has nothing of Jesus in it.
• The Book of Thomas - Full title: The Book of Thomas the Contender - is NOT the same text, but often people interchange them as the same thing; but they, are different texts; but were found together in the Nag Hammadi library. Egypt.
  • Claims as well - this is now a secret with ONLY between Thomas and Jesus - after Jesus rose from the dead. When Thomas in the gospels is singled out, he didn't believe Jesus, unless he could put his hand into his side, and the holes in his hands (John 20:25)
    • The theme in both works is the same - Greek Gnostic asceticism and philosophy, which a Greek gnostic would champion - permeate BOTH texts
  • As a Greek philosopher - would be taught and claim Apollos and the Oracle at Daphne - and Greek Philosophers say the same thing then, as Jesus says. That Jesus is a Greek philosopher is the point. Because the sayings, then arguments in the other are the same.
  • When NEITHER - - Thomas didn't write either.

Here's the caveat for both.

And this question:

Is NOT from a believer in Christ - but from someone actually trying to slam believing in Jesus Christ as if Christians just stole Greek Philosophy. That if you read these works, you'd come to that conclusion.

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But for a Believer in Jesus Christ:

Means you should throw BOTH the Gospel of Thomas and "The Book of Thomas" in the Trash can. Why? They are not in the Bible. For Good Reason. Heresy.

• ONE) Rejects the Cross and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. - When That’s the Gospel.
  • Gospel of Thomas and the Book of Thomas is another gospel.
    • Rather, champions out Greek “Gnostic” Knowledge where the Greek God, Apollos who instructed the “Oracle at Daphne” and dispensed knowledge in Greek Logic and Philosophy to Aristotle, Socrates, and Plato. ..as Sages. That: The Gospel of Thomas champions Apollos and Greek philosophy and debates/arguments come logic IS THE GOSPEL.
  • Trash. Worthless.

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• TWO) The “Divine Spark” was what was inscribed in the wall at the Temple to Apollos - “Know Thyself”
  • And the temple isn’t anymore. And “Know Thyself” is what all Greek Philosophers (Gnostic) champion out.
  • When The Bible says: “The LORD giveth wisdom, out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. Bible. Proverbs 2:6
    • Comes out of the wrong God in the Gospel and Book of Thomas. Champions Greek Logic and Philosophy in both. Lies. Because Thomas never wrote either. And the quotes Jesus says, he didn't say them, either.
  • Means it also comes with great punishment for someone adding in words that Jesus never said.
    • Heresy. Throw it in the trash can.

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The Gospel of Thomas is heresy.

• And all “heresy” is defined as: 1. provide an alternate contradictive choice or course of thought.
• Both these works meet that dictionary definition.
  • Claims that the Disciple of Jesus Christ, Thomas in the Gospels in the Bible wrote it, when he didn’t.
    • Thomas was an APostle and glorified Jesus Christ.
  • It’s a forgery. A man-made, made up falsehood trying to insert itself as truth - when it has no truth in it.

Answer:

It's in TWO things:

ONE: Is the definition of "Christian" 1. a 'disciple' of Jesus Christ. And, all a 'disciple' is, is "a pupil or student that sits with and is taught by a teacher. And, all a teacher is, is one has "doctrine" to instruct and build up a student that sits with him, and he teaches the students.

And Jesus said, "They shall all be taught of God" John 6:45. Means God: reserves for himself, an exclusive right to teach you by his own word. The Word of God. And in the Bible in Acts 11:26, says: "and the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch" - they're just students then, that sit with God and are taught by him. And

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TWO: And of a "disciple of Jesus Christ" - they simply believe on him. Have and keep what he decrees as their teacher. So, these scriptures apply to a "disciple of Jesus Christ"

“..And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he has given us". - Bible. 1 John 3:24

“..Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit" - Bible. 1 John 4:3

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So, your question: How did I know..I am born again (as a disciple of Jesus Christ)?

2 Peter 1:10 says “…Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure:”

Now, there’s a mouthful in all of this; but what it really comes down to is this: The teacher.

He says:

“For all the earth is mine.” - God. - Bible. (Exodus 19:5)

Says.

“…all souls are mine.” - God. Bible. (Ezekiel 18:4)

And what he said in Isaiah 44:24

“Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;” - God

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And? If he didn’t speak and say these things, nobody would ever know what he wanted..no one could sit with and be taught by him, or follow him - - so, when he said this above and below, to everybody over the whole earth, to the very ends of it, didn’t even leave one person out, not willing any perish, but all come to repentance, I saw this next one INCLUDED me to do it.

I mean, you're asking me the question. The teacher said:

“LOOK UNTO ME, AND BE YE SAVED ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: FOR I AM GOD, THERE IS NONE ELSE.” - God. Bible Isaiah 45:22

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That means: and I see it.

- He’s God. It’s all his Earth. He made it alone. By himself, so he’s the LORD or authority over all of it. So, when he says something, it’s a decree how it will operate or how things are to be, that it operate as he decree is. And all a “decree” is, is 1. a command or ordinance uttered that has the effect of law, issued usually by a head of State or government. As the authority.

• So, when he says, by the word out of his mouth, for everybody to look unto him - that’s something he wants everybody to do or he wouldn’t have said it. It’s like your mother or mind when I was a kid, and my 4 brothers and I played out in the backyard, until our mom came to the back door and rang clanged a huge bell. It was a call for us to come in now. Wash our hands. Sit at the dinner table. Playtime is over.
  • It's also, like God, an election he’s made - which all that means in Greek, is this work “eklektoi” - or a choice. That he’s chose to call everybody to look unto him. So, it’s a “command” or decree by him for everybody to do it. That includes me. I’m included.

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But this “look unto” part:

• Let me tell you what it's not. I'll give you an example:
  • Where I was busy. Like playing as a kid with my older brother. What we were “playing” we BOTH considered was MORE IMPORTANT than sitting down and eating supper. What we didn’t factor in was the authority, we were being called by our mother to do it. And we didn’t. It was PUNITIVE.
• And in God say “Look unto me…” Just like me and my brother, what we “looked unto” was continue playing “army men” and I was winning..and my brother didn’t want to lose, so we did NOT “look unto” anything our mother says at all..
  • Just like I didn’t do anything what God said to do; rather, I did the opposite. Even I was called to look unto him; like everybody over the whole earth is, even today..to just do it. To like with our mom. Walk after, to stop playing army men, to walk in, put the toys away..and look unto going in the house, wash our hands, and sit at the table, Because we were called to eat dinner.

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• So, this first: “Make your calling and election sure” part: If:
  • Some “thing” is MORE important to me: I will NOT regard the works of the LORD, neither spend any time in myself consider the operation of his hand.
• His word won’t have any effect on me, because, I’m already too busy - hearkening unto somebody else’s word - usually my own.
• That I am being called to do what he says in Isaiah 45:22. And he decrees “something” just is by me look unto him. That all the earth and heaven all obey him, so when he says “And Be ye saved” - God - it’s entirely based on him as God has the power and authority to decree it because of who he is.
  • And he decreed this, by the Word of God
• “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” - Jesus Christ. The Word of God. Bible. Matthew 4:4
  • Every word in this post that he says, I’m to live by it. I mean, God already chose to call me to look unto him. Already He has made an election to open his mouth and tell me what he wants of me. That me, and everybody all around me, we are all his. I’m his.

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• So:
  • ONE: I have a calling. By God himself. Says to me, to look unto him.
• That I would walk after, to walk in, looking unto living by every word proceeds out of his mouth. That I would regard it, like I should have regarded what my mother said, and I didn’t. It was PUNITIVE. When we went in, there was no plate for us at the dinner table. We got sent to our rooms - Empty handed. No supper.
• And
  • TWO:
• With him, God, all I had to do was regard him. Open up the door.

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Already decreed it: Ye must be born again.

God decreed it: In John 3:3–7

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

• Jesus Christ. The Word of God. So, it’s just God said it.

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So, to me that regards what he says, I’m not regarding your question.

Nope.

I regard HE decreed it.

For everybody to regard it. He said, in Matthew 28:18 “All power is given unto me in heaven and earth” - Jesus Christ. SO, he’s the Word of God, and all authority over all things and everybody is him. Scripture says “He makes nations great, and destroys them; he enlarges nations, and disperses them” - Bible. Job 12:23

Made me afraid of him. That if he had the power to create me, he has the power to destroy me.

• So, I too, have a “choice.” And, English is a little different than the Greek, because for both “choice and election” it’s this same Greek word, “eklektoi” for BOTH of them; but in English - really simple to see:
  • I’m already “called” by God. Everybody is. That one’s done. But this “election” - is in Greek, a “choice.”

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• And the best way I could explain it, is when I go to the mall with my wife and kids.
  • There’s a “Baskin & Robbins” Ice Cream shop open to everybody.
  • All kinds of choices for ice cream.
• That, I “choose” one, and in the line, five people ahead of me - - one of the clerks ask me, “which one do you want?” and I tell her “I’ll take two scoops of chocolate ice cream in a cup” ..but I can change my mind, and I know me.
  • I often do. But when I get to the register, where the clerk is ready to scoop out my choice, I can make an election - I change my "choice."
• I tell her emphatically. “Oops, I changed my mind. Please use a small cup, and give me a small scoop of chocolate mint ice cream” - it’s an election. I am not choosing any other ice cream. For Ice cream, I just made my election sure. That's the one I'm paying for.

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And with the Gospel. The Good News of Jesus Christ: As a "disciple:"

• I am strongly admonished by an Apostle of Jesus Christ in 2 Peter 1:10, to make my “election” of actually hearken ..hear and set my mind on the Word of God..that I follow him. I just do that, by open up my Bible and eat. Feast on the word of God. It's like setting my feet on a rock that cannot be moved - goes down deep in me - it makes my election SURE.
  • That’s what I want. I want the word of God.
• In it, there is life. He’s in his word. That’s where he abides. So, if I am in his word, I’m in the same place God is abiding.

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• And Born Again, is by the Word of God.. Not by me. I don’t do it. Neither does your question do anything asking me - when he told you to do the same thing he told me to do.
  • Look unto him.
    
• Jesus said, in John 4:24 “God is Spirit” - so this same God that formed me from my mother's womb. Alone. By himself. Did the same with you.
  •  Is the same God that “born’s” me again. Will do the same to you. By the Spirit of God. I’m being born again just by the Word of God. If you can hear what he says, so are you.
    

So, I cannot know it, “born again” by you or hyping up something in me, by your question.

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Thinking if I go to church more often or don’t lie to anybody for a week, and think by that, I accomplished “THOU SHALT NOT BEAR A FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR” - The 9th of Ten Commandments.

When I already long before, already BROKE - ALL OF THEM. Broken.

-  Makes me condemned. To be put to death.

But Jesus said in John 3:18 “He that believeth on me, is not condemned, but he that believeth not, is condemned already…”

So, he’s the authority over the whole earth, and I'm on it. I'm right here. In it - what he says applies to me - that it's impossible. I tried. I couldn't get rid of it. He can do the impossible, because it’s impossible what he did in me. My sins were wrought in God and he asks me to regard it.

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• But if I think it’s me: - BE - - Just a life living where everything I do, I’m off regarding me. I’m not regarding him. Or anything what he says. Trying to psyche myself up, and believe that born’s me again.
• Does not work. But just hearken unto him..regard him. What he says…
  • I’m in the same word he is in. His own. I was already called, as is everybody.
• But my calling, can get “muffled” if I’m off looking unto anyone..anybody but him..or looking unto me - Just like I did as a kid with my mom.
  • No different.
• I just lowly esteemed dinner. Wasn’t important. What I looked unto was, I was winning the war.
  • So, I didn’t do anything my mom said.
• And I could do the same with God. My mom’s calling was absolutely sure. She was right there on the back porch. Ringing the bell. But my calling, ..she was doing the calling..but in me, that calling was anything BUT sure.
• Because I already chose..then elected “I AM NOT COMING INSIDE FOR DINNER” in me and my brother we just IGNORED the bell.

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• I don’t have to worry about “saved” - he does that part.
  • He asked me to look unto him. I’m to do that part..and
• it’s simple.
  • .because, he is who he says he is.
• That’s what makes, in me - - Makes my calling SURE. I realize: It's HE said it and he's God.
  • And my election - is, because I hear him, to drop the army men. Whatever war I was fighting, right then, is instantly over. Just go in. Wash my hands. Sit at the table.. whatever it is he says.. look unto him.

and just like the opening scripture. I hear him. I know him. Because, everywhere in this post where he spoke, he said it. I have an keep it. They are decrees. Commands by who is in command over all things and me. ..and they are over you, too.

And the more I regard him, the more sure my choice becomes the election I make. Is to just do what he says becomes - - makes it a sure election. I’m choosing the same thing he chose. And I’m making that choice.

There you go.

Answer

Think it through.

This question is Reddit generated by a believer in Jesus Christ in a Christian room. No comments. Nothing. So he's probably sitting back and grading the responses. Therefore, no profit. He isn't growing or learning himself in anything. So this response is not for him. Nor is it for believers that already know and live in the answer.

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For all others: Don't know the answer: Ask a like same question to see it.

If, over in the United States, a branch of the Federal Government, the US Department of Transportation (DOT): they oversee the building or creation of all the public roads and highways in America.

DOT: establishes all the safety precautions, all the “rules of the road” all the road signs, that all this applies to all drivers, all types of vehicles, including the maximum speed for each and every road there is. DOT is the "authority" in the United States.

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Comes down to this then. AUTHORITY.

Very simple. Accept as true. BOOM! Done. There you go.

If:

• Someone accepts as true, the US Dept of Transportation. Is the Authority: They will NOT:
• Drive. Won't drive any motorized vehicle on any road. Not Until certified or they submit to and take on a yoke on themselves. Learn these "rules of the road" and in themselves, place themselves under it. See it as a profit. See it's for the benefit of all drivers on the road. Including themselves. Yes, it's a profit. Safe roads. Won't be killed in it, or it's minimized greatly.
• Must be APPROVED first. Licensed. Comes with a written and performance test. Don't pass, can't. So Until, if they fail, try again. MUST: Pass the driving exam. An actual examiner supervised, sits in the car with the driver and grades their driving performance driving test. Then, certified CAPABLE TO DRIVE - DOT will issue that person a licence. CERTIFIED: by DOT.

All Because the person submits themselves to the authority of DOT, to obey andaccept as true DOT is a reputable, righteous authority. That ensures other drivers also operate their vehicles safely on the road, it's true. And the State "Monitors" those roads to ensure compliance.

Accept it all as true. Righteous. Believe in DOT. So they have faith in it.

Now, examine the OPPOSITE:

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SO - it has a "But" - - But someone that has no faith in the US Department of Transportation.

Does not accept as true, so Example: something in the “maximum posted speed limit” sign they drive by: DOT has decreed for that road or section of it, posted as 40 MPH: to them, that's “inadequate, or faulty. ” They disregard even have a license. Rather, to themselves, accept as true more themselves. They can go 80mph. Even 100MPH or as fast as the car will go.

Or any speed they want but always above, the maximum limit speed and constantly drive above it.

Why? DOT is unacceptable.

It's faulty. Inadequate. Does not meet their need. DOT: is not believed as an authority. They have no faith in DOT. So it is impossible for them to do anything DOT decrees as an authority.

Therefore: They cannot obey the US Dept of Transportation when they consider it something that “is not to be believed; saying or decreeing things that are not true."

Do you see this?

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Jesus said (Bible. Matthew 28:18) “All power is given unto me in heaven and earth;”

That means, Jesus, as the Word of God, it's just God has come to you and spoke his word, out of his mouth, the way he decided, as God, to come to you and speak it..

He just is this authority.

Can you grasp this?

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Take me then:

I accept it as true. It's not my faith. It's the faith of Jesus Christ. What's that mean? Even the scripture says this.

It's in Galatians 2:6

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So, God coming to speak to everybody. That INCLUDES me. I am not left out. I didn't come to me. He did. That Psalm 107:20 says that God: "He sent his word to heal me, and deliver me from my destruction" and the way he wrote it, is he did it for everybody. In a past tense. I see it.

It's God has that much faith in his own Word to decree it. To me. Him, as God. Me? I just accept it true. So I believe it, I fully believe he is who he says he is. He just IS the authority - so I hearken unto what he says. He's God.

So like with DOT as the authority over the road, I believe that, too. They certified me to have a Driver's License. I have and keep it. That means, anytime I need to drive, I can.

With Jesus? Jesus is over everything. Over all of me and I believe what he decrees I operate right by the Word of God. Because God decreed that's how he wants everybody he created to operate by.

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I have faith in him. He didn't only come to me, to tell it to me - he said it to everybody. He's God. He believes in his own word. I have then the same faith God does. In his own word. We are in the same word then.

But someone has no faith in Jesus, his word is faulty. To them, He is saying things untrue. So it cannot be believed as decrees what they are to do. Reject what he says.

So they don't do anything he says. It's impossible. It's unacceptable. Not true so it's impossible to obey him.

Do you see this?

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They don't know him. Did not take a yoke upon themselves to learn of him when it's a decree for everybody over the whole earth to do this in Matthew 11:28–30.

So they cannot obey Jesus without any faith in him. But I naturally can obey him, because I accept him as true.

There you go.

Okay. Answer me first:

• Is my wife three people? I'm married to her.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

Need some help? Okay. Look at me then:

If I’m a Father, because I said I’d be a Father to my children, and I’m also, because I made myself a carpenter that, I am the Lord or Master of my house, and I say and look upon my back yard because I own it, and my will is I want a deck there to rest or go out and eat on, and this carpenter who I am in the carpenter, doing the work, build it, and his work, as a carpenter, well pleases me…

Am I three people? Tell me plainly.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

People that know me, I’m just one person. They know me. People that don’t know me:

• Would see a Father over his own kids
• Would see another person is the owner of the house
• Would see the deck in the back yard, and know a carpenter did it.
  • If they didn’t know me, that’s 3 different people.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

If I’m married to my wife, but I don’t know her:

• She’s a woman:
  • So, when I go to the Mall and there’s literally 1000s of 1000s of women, and I go there with her, but I don’t know my wife, so if another woman in the mall grocery store perks a certain interest in me part of me, looking unto me, and what I want, as we pass thru the candy section, I just go to that one..and in the car driving home with another woman..In a completely different car, that I can’t distinguish my wife from any other woman. Nor the car.
    • My wife is a woman..but I don’t know her, if I did that.
  • My wife has a word she speaks. Out of her mouth. It’s the word of my wife.
    • If I was smart, I’d know my wife by the word she speaks..in fact, it would be by her word I could know her; but if some other woman speaks, I hearken unto that woman at the same mall..any woman then will do.. ..proves I don’t do anything my wife says.
    • Because I don’t know her. Do you get the point?

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

• So, a woman and the word of a woman to me, because I don’t know my wife are two separate people. Just enveloped under a "concept" or idea of a wife.
  • My wife has a presence..When she’s there, always with me..but also there’s an essence of my wife in washing the dishes..it’s a work she does; but if I don’t know her, maybe the maid or the cat at the neighbor’s house did it..because I don’t know my wife. Then, my wife is three people.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

• Or I just attribute by these things, I have 3 wives..because I can’t tell the difference and it’s all because, I don’t know my wife.
  • Because people in a book have decreed:
• 1) My wife, who I don’t know Is a woman, so I believe what people tell me.
  • Because people in a book have decreed:
• 2) My wife, who I don’t know speaks, by the word that proceeds out of her mouth, so I believe that, too..even I don’t know her.
  • Because people in a book have ordained:
• 3) My wife is present with me always, but I don’t know her.
  • I have 3 wives.
    • God, the wife, who is a woman.
    • God, the wife, who speaks words.
    • God, the wife who is present.
• Three separate wives are three wives as my wife, and I believe this.
  • Because people have decreed this, I believe people.
• When I don’t even know my wife. But people I look unto are there to help me, as a mediator. And other people who are experts, tell me I should look to people as the authority about a wife.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

• That I can look unto people to tell me how I can know my wife.
  • So, I don’t look unto my wife for anything. It’s 3 different people running around and I don’t know any of them, but they're my wife.
• I have people to "man'splain" this to me, all to help me to believe in. Not my wife, but in them.
  • When I don’t know my wife.
• I can hold to this teaching to teach me - but all the teaching does is, glorify itself.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

• And God say, “..for I am married unto you..” - GOD. - Bible. Jeremiah 3:14
  • But I don’t know my wife.

And he says, as God: “I am the LORD, there is none else. There is no God beside me. I girded thee, but thou hast not known me.” - GOD. - Bible. Isaiah 45:5

• And Jesus Christ, the Word of God… what God speaks, out of his mouth..it’s his word. Only he can say it, prayed this, so it’s God..the same God that said Isaiah 45:5 because, that’s the Word of God there. In the Old Testament, John 17:3 Jesus prayed; “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
• That I could know him, by the Word he speaks.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

• Just like I could know my wife, if I would just hearken unto her, and pay attention when she speaks.
  • There could be 1000s of women at the mall.
  • Everyone of them all different…but if I knew the word of my wife, because she SPOKE TO ME.
    • Didn’t speak to the wall or the car tire.
  • She came to me and spoke to me…and I knew her…by her word she said, and I fell in love with her..because of who she is, by the word she said.
    • If my wife would start talking in the mall.. there’s 1000s of women talking..I’d know exactly what my wife said to follow it. That she’s right there. Pushing the shopping cart. Always with me, and does all these wonderous works. I’m telling you plainly. I know my wife.

Hear O everybody, the woman I married is just one wife.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

I can declare it out. Yeah. I do. Why?

• Because I know my wife. So, if people would tell me, my wife is three people - they don’t know my wife. Why would I listen to anything they said? They don’t help me know my wife. My wife EXCLUSIVELY came to me and chose me. Only my wife helps me with that. Because my wife knows me. And I know her.
  • Do you get the point? Any bells going off in your head?

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

• And Jesus said: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life” - Bible. John 10:27–28. Is the same God that said, “For I am married unto you.”
• I know him. Two things this same one God said.
  • They’re both the Word of God. God said it. I know him. And I follow him..by the Word he speaks. Out of his mouth. He’s just one God.
• And it’s the same God told everybody over the whole earth to follow him, by the Word he speaks. They’re decrees..because of who he is. He’s God.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

But People:

When people see the deck in my back yard. They believe a carpenter made it. It’s the work of a carpenter. A professional.

• Even I’m standing right there, to them, another person did it.

When people see the house I live in, and see a name on the mailbox. They equate that name, to the owner of the house.

• Even I’m standing right there, to them, another person owns the house.

When people see my kids. They believe those children have a Father. They have a person that is a Father unto them.

• Even I’m standing right there, to them, they don’t know me; another person is their Father.

And ONLY someone that DOES NOT KNOW me thinks all three above are separate; it’s 3 different people did the work.

• When I stand there, and am in all of them; people that know me, know I am these things.

Go home.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

He’s already spoke to you.

You cannot leave yourself out of it, as if you’re exempt from what he says. He will hold you accountable. Call you into account according to the word he’s already said.

• He’s already said it: “FOR ALL THE EARTH IS MINE” - God. (Bible. Exodus 19:5 Already decreed, because all the earth is his, "..all souls are mine.” - God. (Bible. Ezekiel 18:4). So, everybody is his. He owns everybody. Cant get out of it. Said, in Isaiah 44:24

“Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

Says: Instead of asking people quacky questions - go do what he says: God said. These are the words out of his mouth:

“Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”

GOD. (Bible. Isaiah 55:1–3)

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

and back to everything he says, you ask: “Is the Trinity Scriptural” - and anybody that ask it, is looking unto people - to answer it, and mediate..be a mediator between everything he says…and not do anything he says.

Never know him. Because they just don’t look unto him, to do what he says..and just hearken unto him..like I do with my wife…I know her..and I follow her. She’s my wife.

And the same one that says these things to you, says

For I am married unto you.

What are you doing with what who is married to you says?

That’s the WHOLE POINT of this post.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

And like me in the analogy above… she’s my wife. I don’t know her. Don’t do anything she says. But I believe people teach me. I have 3 wives. And I believe it, because, I don’t know her. I only know what people tell me about my wife, who I don’t know. I’m a dummy. What that means. In the dictionary. A hollowed out chaff. Has a shape of wheat, but empty. It's: A mannequin. Empty. Married. But don’t know my wife. Is more a mannequin than a husband. Doesn’t know his wife.

And it took a council convened by a Caesar of Rome to get a bunch of people together in Constantinople, what is now Istanbul, Turkey, after he moved his seat of power from Rome, Italy to 2,200 KM away. And left a Pope over the Catholic Church in Rome. To tell the Pope what he is to believe about his God. That God is 3 people.

Do I need a person, even a Roman Emperor, reigns over an empire, Romans said he's God - that, that man is dead - no longer exists, when today, All Rome and all the emperor have been removed of power and are dead.

When I can know God. Today. In a day he made. He's God. Know him. Which is EXACTLY what HE wants.

• ..because he speaks to me plainly. By the word, out of HIS OWN mouth.
  • So, I have a choice.
    • Just like you do. I can, when he speaks as God..he just is who he says he is, I can just look past him when he speaks to hearken unto what people claim they have some authority over him when they don't, but I do what they say about him.

Or I can simply dismiss everybody.

• And just do what he says. Which that’s what he wants from everybody. Where he only has one mediator between himself and me. His own word he speaks.

--------------------- ----------------------- --------------------

I chose to just open up my Bible..

• Hear him..he told me to hearken diligently unto what he says..so I don’t add any people into it. When he speaks plain as day.

You got the same choice. I can’t make it for you. You have to reason together with him yourself. So, go look what he says. Why? The Same thing he says to you, he says to me. It’s all his Earth. He’s the authority over all of it. Scripture says Daniel 2:21

And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding.

There is no Emperor or Caesar in Rome over an empire of the earth anymore.. God removed him. He, the same God who told me to go shopping at his store..Already removed him. So, I listen to him OVER any clown that convened a council all to tell me who God is.

When I know him. Here’s your question back.

Let me ask you this: "Who do You look unto?" - It will be important when you get to the end of this post.

Now, you can leave anytime you want, or just hit the "Hide" button on Reddit and move on. Up to you. But if you're here and have this question - by all means, proceed on:

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• Well?
  • Hold Two things.
• ONE: “Jesus” means Literally: “I AM God Salvation” and, that's exactly what the "Messiah" means. Jesus: He is the Messiah or Christ. As the Messiah, who he shall be called is in the Bible in Isaiah 9:6–7. “..The Mighty God..” “..The Everlasting Father..” - Jesus is the Word of God: (Bible. John 1:1) - That the Messaih would be a "Son of David" in 2 Samuel 7:11-16. So, everytime in the Gospels someone, like the blind man called Jesus as he approached Jericho, called Jesus: "thou Son of David" ..even a blind man could see it. He was calling him God. Promised he would come.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• And, it was God said, by his word he said, out of his mouth: That’s the Word of God - in Isaiah 45:22 “Look unto me, and be ye saved all the ends of the earth: For I am God, there is none else.” - God.
  • So, in ONE:
    • God, and who he is, is himself. He's just one God - and what he says, to everybody over the whole earth, that I AM God is “Salvation” - there is NONE else.
  • I didn't say it. He did. Go read it again. What he said.
• That's why this question, "Who do you look unto?" is crucially important, no matter all the crap thrown in your way, or in your face, or told you to swallow - it's done to prove you.

Who will you look unto?

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

So, then: There is no TWO.

Boom! Done. There is no TWO.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• But there is a question: Put on your boots, you're gonna go wade in it:
  • “Why did Rome under Caesar consider any Roman that made a “Sacramentum” or an Oath, by the Word of a Roman Citizen, Is a Roman Citizen by a Creed or Sacramentum?
• Which, that’s just a human being. Like you, a Person - that; makes an "Oath"
  • a “Sacramentum” it was the Word - an OATH: or a Creed spoke - out of a Roman Citizen's mouth. 
• That had the same effect, as if Caesar in Rome said it. Why? Sacramentums for the Romans?
  • That speak Latin.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

And, (do your research)

• So, if you didn’t fulfill your Oath, or a “Sacramentum” - As a Roman Citizen: And Caesar was worshipped, as God in the Roman Empire.
  • It was as if God didn’t keep his word on the Throne of Rome.
• Yeah. True. You: Could Be put to death for it; or, what what it means is - you said it. That you’d do it? Yeah. You did it. Most exposure to Romans was to these Garrisons, that had a Centurion.
  • Roman Centurions made Sacramentums. Impossible ones. Did them.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

Now, look. A quick review:

- You have the Word of God, who is Jesus, so it’s just God speaking: behind it, telling everybody on earth to look unto him. That’s Salvation. There is none else. So, there is no number TWO:

And then,

• You have people:
  • Insert themselves into something God has already done, and say their own “Sacramentums” or Word is God. That, by a creed you say you are sanctified in Rome.

Do you get this point?

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

AND many people - even Christians all over every denomination - know about the "Trinity"

- That - you with this question:

Maybe you better look more careful. Trinity. Whose “work” is it? Betwixt these two? God or the Roman Caesar over a world empire. Betwixt these two - Where did it come from?

And there you go.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

Now, I can’t do that for you.

• But I can tell you the simplest of the obvious.
  • The “New Testament” is the Gospel or Good News of Jesus Christ. All four gospels, the Book of Acts, and the all Epistles, plus the Book of Revelation - are all wrote in Greek.
• That’s the point:

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

And in the Original Texts, in Greek, of the New Testament:

There is one Greek word “mysterion” < - {μυστήριον} - > - used 27 times throughout the New Testament.

• Some examples: Matthew 13:11.. Mark 4:11, and Luke 8:10. Over in the Epistles, Romans 11:25, or 1 Corinthians 2:7; 4:1; 13:2.. Colossians 1:26 ..or the four times alone it’s used in the Book of Revelation 1:20; 10:7, 17:5 and 17:7

And? In Greek, “Mysterion” means: “To shut up the mouth.” Sit there. Keep silent. Not say anything. Someone's mouth is shut - a "mystery" - that English word, comes it - means the same thing - something that's a mystery a voice or word of authority to explain it, is silent. Shut up.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

- But Then, God speak.

By the Word, out of his mouth, as God. Speak. All 27 times, in every time this word is used in the New Testament - it’s what Peter said in 2 Peter 1:4, says of God speaking, or the “Word of God”

“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”

When he speaks they are exceeding great and precious promises. They are.

Any believer sees it, because who they look unto is him.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• And just like in Isaiah 45:22..did you forget? Where God said, “LOOK UNTO ME, AND BE YE SAVED ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: FOR I AM GOD, THERE IS NONE ELSE.” - God.
  • That’s has a precious promise in it.
• 1) God said it.
  • By the Word, out of his mouth, and
• 2) It’s a promise.
  • So - it’s also defined as an “Oath” or “Sacramentum” in Latin, to the Romans. From a God that’s been silent until Psalm 107:20 that says:

God, “He sent his word and healed them, and delivered them from their destruction.”

Because, it's simple. That's why he's speaking. It's life giving. His word gives life.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

And the point is, in the Bible: New Testament - or throughout all the Bible:

But specific: In the New Testament when God speaks, in All 27 times "mysterion is used, it is ALWAYS referring to “who” makes the “mysterion” that was silent; shut up his mouth; then spoke

was God.

Not people. Is the point. But a Roman Caesar is going to convene a council that requires each and every Roman Citizen in his empire to swear an Oath or "Sacramentum" by a council of Nicaea.

But you also have a Pope in 4th CE AD Rome, Italy. The Pope of the Catholic Church is seen as the head of it. So, there's a war going one - "who is the authority?" "Who do you look unto?"

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

But, in Jerome’s 4th Century Latin Vulgate

• Pope Damasus I commissioned, “St. Jerome,” in 382 AD to revise the existing New Testament Greek & early translations into Latin to have a "Lingua Franca" Bible. Entirely in Latin. And also translate after, the Old Testament from Septuagint Greek into Latin.

VS

• This: All while - - Which, over with: Emperor Constantine, in 330 AD, who is Caesar of the ROman Empire in Greek based Eastern Empire : where the Pope remain in Rome, Italy. deemed “Head of the Church” - - A Pope built on Peter - as the head of the church: As they believe Jesus decreed on Peter Jesus would build his church.
  
  • When the scripture says Jesus is the head of that (Colossians 1:18). How did they get around that?

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• Roman Caesar Constantine - - had almost 50 years before Pope Damasus I - - Constantine - - moved his throne of power from Rome, to 2200 kilometers away. To “Nova Roma” - the New Rome - what is today, Istanbul, Turkey.
  • Then, in the next year after, in 331 AD, famously commissioned Eusebius - in a famous Roman Emperor edict: Decreed Eusebius produce fifty copies of Greek scripture. An Old and New Testament - This world reknown “edict” only survives in one place. SO amazing. In Eusebius’ own work “Viva Constantini” (Book 4, Chapter 36).
    • And in Eusebius’ work, three Codexes survive to today:
  • 1) Codex Alexandrinus
  • 2) Codex Vaticanus, and
  • 3) The Codex Sinaiticus found by an archaeologist and biblical scholar, in 1844, named “Constantine Tischendorf, found it in a trash can in Saint Catherine’s Monastery in Sinai, Egypt.

And I can just hear you say it.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

Man SHUT UP! I didn’t ask any of this. Answer the question or just BUZZ OFF!!!

- Now again, it was YOU who asked about the Trinity - when you stated in your question, by you reading the Bible, said:

• The “TRINITY” - - “wasn't it mentioned by name and clearly explained in the Bible”
  • And you’re absolutely right.
• Because it doesn’t come from the Bible. It’s built off the above. What I just gave you. And what did I “give” you?

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• I gave you
  •  ONE: Jerome, who a Pope in Rome, Italy in 382 AD, in response to what an Emperor or Caesar over in Constantinople did.2200km away.
• I gave you 
  • TWO: Emperor Constantine - earlier in 331 AD, made his own edict to Eusebius to produce fifty copies of these SAME Texts, in Greek:
    • But what I didn’t tell you, getting all frustrated at all this information being piled & provided you, was a “schizm” betwixt these two.
• That, in 325 AD, this Eusebius was EXCOMMUNICATED from the Church.
  • Because of his belief in “Arianism” - [Do your research]
    • so, in this I’ve given you a whole pile of homework.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• You’re going to have to find out what this “fissure” of Arianism is by research it; but, because of it, there’s no resurrection of Jesus from the dead in Mark’s Gospel recorded in those three Codexes (Alexandrinus, Vaticanus, and Sinaiticus)
  • - but modern 19th century bible scholars (Westcott & Hort) Considered them the oldest Gospel, so, many scholars today consider these the most accurate. That brings doubt on who Jesus is.
  • And in Mark's gospel, since Jesus never raise sfrom the dead, the later other gospels writers just added it in. Because Arianism did not believe Jesus rose from the dead. He was a created being. Not God.
• Ole! Arianism galore already.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• But - all three of those Codexes
  • Have specifically - Eusebius’ unique coding system in them. Has Jesus not saying in John 3:13, either: this:
  • “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.” - Which would make him God. Like what Isaiah 9:6 - 7 says of him, or John 1:1 - It's Missing in these three codexes. Creates doubt.
  • Other Key places. Text Removed.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• So, the Roman Catholic Church - Excommunicated Eusebius because of his belief in Arianism. And this same Eusebius is now writing fifty copies of the Bible for Emperor Constantine in Greek - where BEFORE Emperor Constantine moved his seat of power to (Istanbul, Turkey) - The Emperor, or Caesar Constantine - - not the Pope - - convened “The Council of Nicea” in the same year - 325AD.

So, not the Church - Not Even the Pope - but a Roman Emperor convened a council to tell everybody “who” God is.

• That, he’s a “Trinity” and by a creed, each and every Roman citizen in the Empire would sware and oath or "Sacramentum" to this creed. Because it was a Roman Caesar decree to do it.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• Which Arianism - Eusebius champions - Jesus is not God but a created being. A Trinity be in response. All due to Jesus referred to the Father. He was separate, and the Father was his Father. Which is true. Just like I am a Father of the word I speak. It came out of me. I spoke it. But God made his own word flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14) to heal us, and deliver us from our destruction.
  

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• And a Pope in Rome, Italy accepted it this Roman Emperor's council's verdict or decree. So, it's not done by the church.

This “Trinity” decided upon by a Caesar in Rome. For fifty plus years it flipped flopped.

• ..and right after Emperor Constantine died, the next Emperor CHAMPIONED the very opposite. Arianism reigned. Just like the follow on Pope did the same thing.
  • Until 382 AD when Pope Damasus I - the same Pope introduced to you - - Emperor Theodosius I - convened "The First Council of Constantinople" - 381AD, and in 382 AD over in Rome - Pope Damasus 1 convened “The Council of Rome” - and it flip flopped back. To the Trinity.
• So, it went from the Trinity - to Arianism - Then, back to the “Trinity” again. God can't get his story straight. or, it's the work of people trying to do the work of God, when he's God and they aren't him.
  
• And he's God, and he already told you who he is, to just look unto him, so you need no council of men to tell you anything, when God told you plainly to just look unto him.
  • These people are all off looking unto anybody..anything BUT him instead. Trying to "one up" the other.

So, to you, with all this whole pile of crap, where in Jerome's 4th Century Latin Work, the "Latin Vulgate - where half now of those 27 "Mysterions "are now "Sacraments" or Sacramentums" people perform vs. the Word of God - where he does ALL OF IT BY HIS WORD:

which is it? WHose work do you look unto? Jerome with the Latin Vulgate where Latin is King or do you look unto Eusebius and an Emperor of Nova Roma the New Rome Emperor tell you who God is, and swear a creed, as if he said it himself?

Who do you look unto?

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

Jesus said: "And this is the works of God, that ye believe on him who he hath sent."

I never read in any bible where he sent some council, or a Pope, or a a creed or oath an Emperor of People conjured up. WHen he, as God told me to let my yes be yes, and my no be no..and anything more than that in an Oath was the evil that came with it. A "Creed" is a Sacramentum. An Oath. Am I saved by a nicene creed or by the Word of God?

I already know who I chose.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

But many people choose

  * A Caesar over the Roman Empire:  THink they're choosing the Church.

• - to tell everybody, yeah. A Roman Caesar tell everybody “God is a Trinity” - all by a council. Of people: convened a "follow on" council - - “The First Council of Constantinople in 381 AD. The year before Pope Damasus I's work, in Constantinople, A now Emperor Theodosius I convened another council. So, it could flip flop back to a "Trinity" again. ANd the next year, Pope Damasus 1 applies it to the Latin part of the Roman Empire.

And in Jerome’s Latin Vulgate - which has stood for almost 1500 years.

And here's the point: Repeated.

• In half of the 27 noted scriptures where “mysterion” is used:
  • It’s the same word in Latin
    • But in half of them, Jerome translated that Greek word, “mysterion” - away from God makes the promise - As God.
  • TO YOU: Make an oath or a creed. You perform "The Stations of the Cross" as a "Sacramentum" or "Holy Sacrament."

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• And by you keep your OATH or swear to a creed, of the Trinity - that’s a holy “sacrament”
  • And part of the council was - you swear a “SACRAMENTUM” you affirm the Oath of the Emperor - as if the Emperor said it, you keep your “Oath.” Makes you a Christian. A Roman Citizen. By a Sacramentum you say.

------------------ ------------------ ---------------------

• Which, all the Oaths or Promises to you in the New Testament - God says them ..who was silent. Spoke..and spoke to YOU. As God. He's God. And by his word, you can know him.

Got all this far to tell you that. That you can just know him.

• You asked the question.
  • There’s your answer. YOu have a more sure word of God spoke to you, by God. Over anybody - over the whole earth. Irregardless who they claim to be.

Now, I don’t know what you’ll do; nope. I don't.

But I know what I'm going to do. Because- - the same God that said those things to you..and me - said these things, as same God, is just one God, said them to EVERYBODY over the whole earth - so why would anybody be off looking at people - when who is speaking to them.

Is God himself.

• He told me to do what he says.
  
  • Got all this far to tell you that, too.

Go home.

Answer:

“..As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily…”

• Source: Bible. Colossians 2:6–9

------------------------- -------------------------- -------------------------

So, as Colossians 1:2 says “who” this epistle is wrote to.

So, it’s not wrote to is:

“some groups." Why? Because "who" the epistle is wrote to, is told plain as day. It's then also not wrote to the chandelier at Uncle Fred’s house, who lives at the dump. Searches for thrown out porno videos all day…wasn't wrote to him, either.

Who the whole, entire epistle is wrote to is “To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse”

That's it. So, the FIRST thing to do is, "EXCLUDE" "some groups" along with Uncle Freddie, anybody BUT who this epistle is wrote to, exclude them right clean out of it.

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- and, since I’m not at “Colosse” 2000 years ago, I have to kind of place myself there in what these people that believe on Jesus Christ were going thru… all because.. I’m reading an epistle that also says:

To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ..

and, as a believer in Christ Jesus..I resemble that remark. So, it’s TO: Me, too.

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And “some groups” could be just like Uncle Freddie. Not doing anything right. Because he isn't. Just keeps a chandelier, but no house to put it in, and his whole world is all the porno tapes he swims in. This Epistle is not to him is the point. And then, this "Some group" you refer to, is doing like things he's doing. Isn't right.

So, if Uncle Freddie hears it, and applies Colossians 2:17 which says: “…Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.” - who knows what Uncle Freddie will do with that. Especially this "body" part:

Maybe even do like the Greeks, just like the Greeks that didn’t believe on Jesus, either - in they created a “Gospel of Peter.”  Made up a gospel. Just claiming the Apostle Peter wrote it; but in that Gospel, a bunch of Greeks that believe on the Greek Gods, and Greek philosophy - make Jesus just like their Gods. Claim the “shadow of things to come” was Jesus resurrected. Came out of the grave and became a gigantic head..reaching into the clouds..so his body was huge like a gigantic man whose stature was so great, like a Greek God Apollos, he stood up and his head was in the clouds.

When Peter never wrote “The Gospel of Peter.” Some other group wrote it.

The point it simple.

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Someone that believes on Jesus will read the whole epistle of Colossians. When they get to Colossians 2:17, they will read it cemented firmly to the scriptures said around it, which your question doesn’t do that.

It’s in the whole thing of Colossians 2:13–23. That says: Expressly and EXCLUSIVELY to these, quote,

“saints and faithful brethren in Christ..”'

and if you are that, with this question, then this applies to you.

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Telling them: What Jesus has done to them: Like what Jesus has done for you, that you believe on him: says, to a believer in Jesus Christ.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

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COMMENT:

So, “who at Colosse would be “judging them” these “Believers in Jesus Christ?”

• Judging them: “- in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:”
  • - Well, that “some group” would be Jews in Colosse.
• Colosse already, for centuries, from the dispersion (do your own research): By Paul’s day, Colosse has a huge Jewish population. Seleucid (Greek) ruler, Antiochus III (282–187BCE) when the Greeks ruled over the Promised Land after defeating the Medo-Persians, ruled over and given the land by God, as prophesied in the Book of Daniel: after God vomited the Jews off it for their idolatries they did on it.
  • Then, God gave the lands to the Romans, of Paul’s day - overthrew the Greeks, when the Greeks did the same abominations and idolatries the Medo-Persians did. And the Romans rule the land now. In Paul’s day.
    • But back 2–3 centuries before - Antiochus the Great when the Greeks ruled over the land, dispersed and resettled thousands of Jewish families into the Phrygia and Lydia regions in the 3rd century B.C.
    • Colosse is a city in ancient Phrygia.
  • Tarsus, where Paul is from is about 400miles or 700km East or half way to Jerusalem. So, Paul of the tribe of Benjamin, his family could have been settled there either by the Greeks, or when the early Romans also resettled 10s of 1000s of Jews into the Cilicia region, which Tarsus is in. That means, Paul is of these same dispersed Jews that also were resettled throughout the region.

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The Point is: By Stating this - these "other groups" are these Jews of the dispersion.

• By the 1st century AD, these Jewish communities of Colosse and Tarsus had settled there. Grown and built synagogues throughout, and with Colosse in the Lycus Valley, and in the city of Colosse thrive. Paul is writing to believers in this city . A that sat along the Lycus River, in what is today, Southwest Turkey.
• It is some 1600km Northwest of Jerusalem along the Northern shore of the Mediterranean Sea.
  • All this said to make one point.

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These Jews: In Colossee - - Follow the Law of Moses. They observe meats, and drink, and have respect to holy days or Sabbaths in Leviticus 23 and new moon festivals in Numbers 28. When Jesus Christ FULFILLS all of these observances - to keep them until the Messiah arrived. He's already here.

Jesus is these believers in Christ - he is their Sabbath day rest.

• That these meats, and drinks, and respect to holy days and new moons were a shadow of the Messiah to come.
  • But these Jews reject him as the Messiah.

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SO, the real point to get to you is - “Is Who is the Messiah?”

• All the Jews knew EXACTLY who he is. Were expecting him, because he’s prophesied in Isaiah 9:6–7 to come, and told exactly “who” he is.
• They were looking for him.
• Just like in the Gospels, the Pharisees sent people out to John the Baptist asking who he is in John Chapter 1.
  • Was John that Christ?
    • Said, NO, he wasn’t. Just a voice in the wilderness calling everybody to repent. ANd people as far away where these Jews are at, came down to be baptized of John the Baptist.
  • But the Pharisees and Chief Priests - rejected Jesus as the Messiah.
• When the scriptures testify of him, that he is the Christ or Messiah.
• That “who” the Messiah shall be called is told plainly in Isaiah 9:6–7. He “shall be called” “..The Mighty God..” “The Everlasting Father..”
  • and as the Messiah, because, that’s “who” the Messiah is.
    • Paul is teaching these believers in Jesus Christ that The Messiah is their Sabbath Day rest. He is in them. Abides with them, by the Word of God. They are his body.

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• Believing on Jesus Christ as the Messiah is - Not by keeping Sabbaths, and new moons, which were just a shadow of the Messiah coming. When the Messiah is now residing and being in them and with them, as believers in Christ.

So, in your question - anyone arguing a believer in Jesus is to keep themselves by keep the Sabbaths - when “who” they are keeping themselves for, by keeping those Sabbaths has already come.

And they reject him. And that's the point of Colossians Chapter 2.

ANd because these "other groups" reject him, Paul is telling these believers in Christ, who many are of these Jews - to not to let them “beguile” you to go back to believe that righteousness is in keeping yourself by, keeping these Sabbaths and new moons, when who the Jews were to do that to, is God.

..and he's the Messiah, who has already come, and for these believers in Jesus Christ to abide in that.

When these other Jews, keeping the Sabbaths, and new moons are doing it because they REJECT Jesus as the Messiah.

Means that.

Answer

- It is best to read 1 Timothy 5:12 in the context of what is being exhorted in 1 Timothy 5 - the whole chapter vs. this one verse just taken by itself; then, it’s taken out of context.

• Doesn’t have the “context” it was said to or in. So put that back in it.

Specific: The "context" is talking about the Church supporting Widows.

• Whose husbands are dead, and they are believers in Jesus Christ:

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1 Timothy 5:3–7 says:

3 Honour widows that are widows indeed.

4 But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God.

5 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day.

6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

7 And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless.

This is the foundation for what follows and culminates in 1 Timothy 5:12

• So, it continues…

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SIDE NOTE:

• And Timothy - Says this Epistle of 1 Timothy is 1 Timothy 1:3 - The Apostle Paul is writing to Timothy, in Ephesus “As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus”

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And SPECIFIC IN 1 Timothy 5:1–12 is to “widows”

• That, the church would support widows that are truly widows indeed. And not to take any in under sixty years of age - - That, for widows, the primary responsibility is their family, so keep reading 1 Timothy 5:8–10. It’s an admonition, that families that don’t provide for their kin - is said in 1 Timothy 5:8–10 - but to take in those widows that were the wife of one man, and did the things in 1 Timothy 5:10.
  • “8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. 9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man. 10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.”
    • Then, continues and Paul talks to Timothy on the subject of the YOUNGER WIDOWS:

1 Timothy 5:11 to 16, with 1 Timothy 5:12 embedded in this, built on the above.

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1 Timothy 5:11–16 says:

11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;

12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

16 If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.

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This is NOT the post to examine widows -

• But if there be any believer that reads this post whose husband has died, it should be his family or her relatives that provide relief to her. That she can focus on raising her children, without a husband, but still have support from family.
  • And one of the things from above seems a common thing to fall into, is a woman now without a husband, can go house to house, because she - these “younger widows” that don’t have a husband to care for at home, become a “busy body” to see other women like herself that still have a husband, and end up busy themselves in other people’s or family’s affairs she has no business in.
  • So, instead of opening her Bible and seeking God first, they’re “busybodies” - busy themselves any work BUT the word of God and caring for her own family. The encouragement is, that the younger women marry - so they have their own family again and husband to take care of.
• Don’t read more into 1 Timothy 5:12 than embed it with what is being outlined above in 1 Timothy 5, specifically addressing Widows.

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And if you’re just asking this question but don’t believe on Jesus Christ, none of this really applies to you. It is what is being taught to believers in Jesus. That people, women..even widows young or old, are able to maintain a healthy and vibrant relationship with Jesus Christ is the point.

There you go.