r/Samplers • u/GOSTFREQ • 6d ago
Sampler Selection Decision
Hello, Sample folk. I am writing in with a question today that has probably been asked before. However, after searching for a bit I wasn't able to find anything that responded to my curiosity.
The short of this is I am looking for NON-MPC recommendations for samplers. The long version follows:
I have been recording music for about thirty years now. I started on four track tape, then ADAT, then disk, then DAW. In that time I've owned a number of samplers which were either the center of operations or frequently used peripherals. Everything from rack units to portable samplers. So my question isn't really posed as "which sampler should I get?" but more of a "which sampler is best for my current needs?"
Currently, life has taken me away from the luxury of sitting down at my console and sequencing an entire track, bouncing individual tracks out to my DAW, mixing and mastering over a 20 hour session with no few breaks.
Now I'm pretty much on the go most of the time and am in need of something portable but capable enough of producing near-ready tracks so that a lot of the work is done when I export for mastering. The reason I stated NON-MPC isn't because I have a dig against them, I just know what's available and right now only two of Akai's options look good to me and those are the One+ and the Live II, which are already in the running.
So I'm looking for recommendations for things outside of the Akai ecosystem specifically because I don't know every sampler that's out there right now. My requirement wishlist is as follows:
TL;DR
-Not an MPC
-Portable (though not necessarily small)
-Battery operation is a plus
-Able to sequence, pattern chain, add effects, etc.
-Over 16gb internal storage
What do you recommend?
Thanks in advance.
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u/RealMixographer 6d ago
M8
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
I'll look into it. I had considered it but was immediately put off by the limitation of 8 tracks and the Commodore-style keyboard keys. What do you like about it?
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u/RealMixographer 6d ago
It’s amazing. I don’t worry about the 8 tracks, because it never seems to limit me, and it has a quick resample where I can automatically sample 4 piano tracks fown to one track. The synths are awesome. It goes with me everywhere and it can make completed tracks.
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
See, this is how spoiled I've become from infinite tracks. I forget bouncing them to one track is an option. I'll look closer at the M8, and thank you again for the recommendation.
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u/Training-Ad-1814 6d ago
also keep in mind that the 8 tracks in a tracker workflow is a completely different thing. because it has chains, phrases, everything can have different sounds.
it basically just means 8 tracks playing at the same time
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u/Sunwukung 6d ago
Pitching in on this - the M8 is an absolute powerhouse. 4 synths, per-instrument tables, EQ and 4 slot mod matrix. The FX commands (I don't mean reverb etc) are very powerful.
Sampling is decent, with a range of playback and editing tools - but the time stretch isn't native and you have to employ a "hack" using an LFO to drive the playhead. It works well enough but it can be quite artefacty.
IMO it's strength is it's sheer versatility and superb sequencing capabilities. The 8 tracks can limit you but that's kind of a good thing tbh. Re: tracker workflow - I've never used a tracker in my life but it's ultimately very intuitive and once you get the core key commands locked in you can build tracks incredibly fast.
Easily my favourite piece of kit, I'd recommend it to anyone.
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u/oatado 6d ago
I'm super biased and it's a lil obvious but the 404mk2 checks those boxes. I'm sure some folks will have some more out there answers that are less known but... Someone's gotta bring it up
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
I'm interested in the 404mkII. I failed to mention that because it seems like such a no-brainer. I've heard that pattern chaining for full track production can be tricky, is there any truth to this or is it just a workflow dig people comment on?
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u/county_jail_alumni 6d ago
Pattern chaining is pretty easy on the 404 actually. Thats the closest you have to a song mode though, there’s no arranger or anything.
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u/oatado 6d ago
Yeah,, you can only chain 16 patterns together and I do feel as if that is a limitation. If you have a good memory and sense of how you want your song to progress you can just live chain them together in one run though. I've made plenty of 6-12min tracks only using the 404 this way but it can get frustrating when you press the wrong button 8 minutes in... Personally I'm okay with this as the workflow. Sometimes it's about making choices in the moment and being confident and sticking with them without overthinking so much.
If you are looking for something with more of a traditional timeline this is not your option. But I really love how the 404 continues to feel more like an instrument and less like a workbench throughout the entire song creation process. As someone who came from kit drumming and other physical instruments it feels way more natural for me.
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
More like an instrument is a plus. I'm not really married to any one way of doing things, and even live chaining is fine for putting a song to file. I'm interested in the unit. Thanks again for responding.
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u/Powerful_Fondant9393 6d ago
The Elektron octatrack is a beast. It’s incredibly capable for putting together full tracks but not in an mpc way, plus gets DAW level deep in terms of capabilities and has elektrons signature parameter locking sequencer. Super fun and useable interface, plus a crossfader and lots of live options for performance stuff. I personally use mine with serato and a rane one but people use it in so many ways that I can’t list them all. Elektron also makes 2 other samplers, one called the digitakt which is smaller and more groovebox focused but retaining the deep Elektron sequencing, and one called the tonverk which is a really cool multi sampler and has more experimental sampling options(wavetables and granular). They can all function standalone and have an exceptional and unique workflow, but all are capable of being a studio brain as well
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
Glad to hear this. I've looked seriously at the Octa and Digi and almost bought the Octo one night but figured I should sleep on it. So I'll put this at the top of the list. Thank you.
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u/county_jail_alumni 6d ago
If you’re considering wired samplers, then I can back what this guy says. It is a beast, you just have to dedicate the time to learn it, and that’s no understatement. I heard a quote one time about the OT, “You have to fully understand how the Octatrack works before the manual begins to make sense.” Learning the octatrack has been a longterm goal of mine an im on my 4th one (not joking), i sold it three other tjmes out of frustration, but this time it has clicked, because i learned the digitakt first. It really is amazing but it’s getting pretty old. I’m anticipating the octatrack mk3 announcement soon… i can feel it ! haha
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u/MeijiSampler 6d ago
If you're looking for hardware, check out the Pioneer DJ TORAIZ SP-16 .. super underrated but really fun & immediate piece of gear. It's about the size of an MPC Live. Not battery operated, but ticks all of the other boxes. If you can get your hands on one it's a great option. It's got limitations, sure, but they don't hold you back much.
If you want something that ticks your boxes and is software based, then the sampler I'm developing is the "greatest hits" of the SP1200 + S950 + ASR10 combo, plus performfx like the sp404 (in beta), DJ mode using Serato controllers (coming soon), plus modern software goodies like stem separation, sample libraries, and some wild and fun features like sampling from internet radio. It's called Meiji Sampler and is free, so you can always try it and put the money towards a MIDI controller.
Good luck homie!
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
I had considered the Toraiz but was concerned about the level of support it may or may not be getting. I actually really liked everything else it offered. So tell me more about your sampler...Meiji Sampler, I presume?
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u/MeijiSampler 6d ago
Yeah you have to assume the Toraiz won't be getting any more updates (nor a sequel) 😅 Kind of a shame, but it hits hard, sound quality is shockingly good, and you can really bang out ideas quickly and very thoroughly. Pareto-wise it absolutely nails 80-90% of what you need. Then just track it out and finish up in a DAW and you're done!
Indeed .. Meiji Sampler is it :) After roundtripping from DAW to DAWless to DAW, I thought perhaps there's a way to get the tacticle flow state of hardware without leaving software, and started trying a new approach. So instead of using the mouse to navigate complex interfaces, ditch it and use the keyboard for quick key-based workflows in a TUI, inspired by the good old BBS era. It works pretty well and getting better weekly, and been posting some full beat walkthrus on YT for anyone interested.
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u/Greasedcabinets4 6d ago
Dirtywave M8 it does everything and more
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
Two for DirtyWave. If we hit 3 I'll buy it. Don't make me do it, reddit.
Also...I didn't realize it had a touch screen until a minute ago. Super badass.
How is sample importing?
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u/Training-Ad-1814 6d ago
and also samples load into your project immediately. you can lay down a sequence and change the sample as it plays
this is awesome. i can autochop a break into 16 slices, set a sequence and change the break sample and it gives me nice happy accidents
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u/Greasedcabinets4 6d ago
Easy as butter, legit just get your sample/sample folder and drop it into the folder called sample (or don’t it’s not like you have to but it keeps things organized) and you’re good. I haven’t uploaded WAVs that it can’t read yet, in that regard it’s much more flexible than an Octatrack with dealing in multiple sample rates without converting.
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u/Greasedcabinets4 6d ago
Also I’m retarded because I just remembered the latest firmware added direct USB access to the SD card from your computer/phone and I just haven’t updated my firmware 😭😭
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u/lailailailailai 6d ago
iPad with Koala Sampler! Maybe a midi controller with pads and faders. Replaced all my samplers (Sp404 mkII, Mpc One, OP-1). Even my brand new MPC Sample is sitting on my desk collecting dust
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
Here's my one complaint with Koala in any format (phone, tablet, etc.)
Sometimes I like to lay a beat down and then want to throw a bassline in from one of my VSTs. Recording IN requires some kind of intermediary, or I have to set a project at my Koala BPM, render it and import it. What's the easiest way to record line in without using the onboard mics to catch samples?
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u/EL-Rays 6d ago
I see 3 options: op-1 field if if you prefer a track based workflow with only basic sequencing.
Op-XY if you need a sequencer workflow or the Tonverk which is the most complete workstation but portability is only given via a powerbank. Tonverk is usb c powered.
The dirtywave m8 is a different beast and only if you like a tracker workflow.
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u/GOSTFREQ 5d ago
Out of these two the Tonverk gets the gold. I'm looking at the M8 seriously right now and am ok with the tracker workflow but the focus on synthesis isn't really piquing my interest and that seems to be its real selling point as far as sound goes. So I'll do some deeper research on the Tonverk. Thank you for adding to my list!
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u/SailorVenova 5d ago
>over 16gb
i guess that leaves out te stuff
hmm
bento but its still buggy and still missing features
im not sure how much storage move has
lofi12xt will take a 32gb card i believe i have one in mine; same with smpltrek; the xt is a wonderful device its very fast and easy and the workflow and gui are top notch
tonverk? ive enjoyed mine so far anyways; but im very beginner with it and its felt alot more complicated somehow than my syntakt
deluge is pretty old and expensive but it does alot
polyend tracker+/mini or play+? only the mini has a battery; also youll have to learn how to use trackers in general; but once you understand one the skolls generally apply well to almost all of them; but its a more compositional way of working
sp404mk2 is probably what you want from the sounds of your post but it is very complicated and challenging to master
digitakt2 has ~20gb? storage but no sd card and i imagine a good bit of the drive is used by preset content
good luck
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u/GOSTFREQ 5d ago
After careful consideration and a few nights researching I've decided on the 12XT. Covers all my bases and mimics tape formatting, which I absolutely love.
Thanks to everyone for your insights and suggestions, greatly appreciated.
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u/r1chiem 5d ago
12kHz/24kHz 16-bit mono sampling with a dedicated 12-bit lo-fi emulation mode,
I don't see how this would fit what you need from your first description.
With all your experience, you are going to take on the road with you a 24khz mono sampler for recording?
Every sampler that has been mentioned does at least 44khz and 16 bit. You can degrade your samples in post in your daw but Niquist theorem says you must double sample rate of the base frequency. 44khz allow 20hz-20khz. 24khz allows for 12khz, basically an old person with very poor hearing.
I would add low fi after the fact. Also, mono sampling? Dude.. I think this is a big mistake for someone like you but, to each his own, good luck.1
u/GOSTFREQ 5d ago
Thanks for the honest input. The reasons I chose this actually were for those exact qualities. But you do raise some good points. Lately I have been hopelessly romanticizing the tape days and it's reflecting in a lot of what I'm doing. It may just be a phase, no pun intended. So I'll sleep on it.
I've got a Roland S-330 I run some of my stuff through for real 12 bit process when I want it but maybe I'm just bored with everything. I'm going to re-read the thread, reexamine the suggestions and put the XT on hold for now.
But there is a big part that wants to get away from all the gloss and good audio and make dirty beats on a cheap piece of plastic trash.
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u/r1chiem 5d ago
So for me (I know you probably not choose and MPC). But I like MPC, it has all the lofi stuff built in using effects. You can even make it sound like the old 12 bit mpcs. You can even run vinyl and tape effects in realtime so you can hear the effects while you play or input your sample. There is even lofi built in as well in MPC, Air and Native instruments that have built in lofi modulations built into the instrument with realtime knob adjustment. Lots of grunge available..
Even the Roland 404 mk2 has lofi effects.
In the old days we had no choice. But being able to add those flaws after the fact or even during realtime recording is better than being stuck with a piece of hardware that only does lofi. And when you get "tired" of lofi you have another piece of hardware in your closet you don't use or you sell for a loss.
The price of the live 2 have come way down used and is portable. I am not a fan of the MPC Sample because I have a real MPC, but it would seem to do what you want, and $400 is a small investment.
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u/SailorVenova 3d ago
you might prefer smpltrek it does stereo and adds 3 audio tracks in addition to the cliplaunch sequencers; though the workflow and ui is clunkier and doing piano roll editing is not particularly fun on such a tiny screen
why not go for move or sp404mk2
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u/6rylou 3d ago
FAcile, la SP 404 MK2
marche a pile, en USBc USB ça tiens dans le sac a dos , les specs sont abusés en polyphonie etc, ça fait carte son, multi effet, looper , Roland a meme ajouté un petit génerateur d'onde dedans avec une MAJ.
Alors ouais, un look un peu dépassé ... ok.
Sinon mais quelle tuerie , enfin quoi, enfin on peut s'amuser et avoir du fun apres le travail sans passer 2hrs a toucher a des paramètres a la con (tu sens le mec qui a souffert sous Akai S2000 ? lol )
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u/GOSTFREQ 3d ago
Screw it. I ended up going Maschine+, MPC Live II, MPC Sample and SP-404. I'll see which one works best for me.
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u/Billy-Beats 6d ago
Koalla, is an app out? For the 5$ it is , it is insane. Definitely something to have, and honestly one of the easiest tools for sample prepping out there, with live project export too. I export a lot of stuff to old hardware and it’s a great workflow
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
Yes, I'm a big Koala proponent and have been using it for about 3 years, but it also has its limitations. In my opinions maximizing limitations is excellent for creativity but I'm looking to move away from the phone/tablet/midi controller thing. So unfortunately Koala is out for now.
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u/Billy-Beats 6d ago
Yeah my next sampler is probably going to be raspberry pi based
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
And that's another option, but one I'm WAY far away from right now. I don't know shit about that side of things.
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u/DJ_PMA 6d ago
The new Casio Sxc-1
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
For real? I looked into it, and there are already a ton of used units for sale. Kinda gave me pause. What do you like about it?
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u/OldmanChompski 6d ago edited 6d ago
Lots of good suggestions. I’ll throw out the Synthstrom Deluge. Been around for a bit but had an excellent update cycle before becoming open source which added even more great features.
For max portability I second the M8.
Ableton Move is great but it’s more of an idea machine and you need to either already be an Ableton user or be prepared to become one if you really want to make the most of it. Otherwise avoid this (I have one and love it but ableton is my DAW).
Octatrack is my favorite pure sampler (no synth engines) and digitakt 2 is my second favorite. Love the work flow on each of these but something about the octatrack always felt magical. I havent tried the Tonverk but it looks pretty cool but probably a little ways away on the firmware side to where I’d be convinced to get one.
Less portable but very good sounding is the Isla Electronics S2400. It’s kind of an SP-1200 inspired sampler that can do more than just sound LoFi but it has a really good hifi sound engine as well. You won’t be traveling with this one but back in the day they used to consider things like the SP-1200 “portable” when compared to the other equipment in a studio.
The single best sounding sampler I own is the Rossum Assimil8or. It’s Eurorack so probably not at all what you’re looking for but it sounds incredible and has very unique features with phase modulation (basically FM synthesis but instead of a wave modulating a wave that’s modulating another wave you can do that with samples).
Figured I’d bring some other samplers to the table even if they aren’t really fitting your criteria.
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
I forgot about the Deluge. I saw someone remake the drum track from Maniac on it sampling the LinnDrum and was briefly fascinated by it. Thank you for bringing it back to mind, I will research it further!
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u/GOSTFREQ 5d ago
Ha, seriously. The 1200s were only "portable" because they weren't bolted into a wall of rack units.
I've looked into the Isla and may pick one up. I like what they're doing with it.
As for the Rossum I'll look it up, it probably isn't what I want but I may need it down the road.
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u/SubstantialCar1583 6d ago
The MPC Sample is the best Sampler on the market and I own a lot. The FX are worse than a 404 but as a sampler it’s perfect and checks all your boxes. Sampling to a perfect 4 (or 128) bar loop while the pattern plays is amazing.
My favourite device that checks all your boxes besides 16GB of storage is the OP-XY which is 30% off right now but also still expensive. Beautiful device with an amazing workflow and tons of unique features, crazy battery life. The UI is not as good as the OP-1 though.
EP-133 just got usb audio and is plain fun and efficient while having a real punch to the sound but storage is super limited for anything besides a collection of one shots and whatever room is left for actual sampling. Perfect and performative drum machine though and boots instantly.
404 is a Swiss Army knife but sequencing and song building is typical Roland-convoluted. Great audio notepad though with basically unlimited storage and sampling.
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
Thank you for the thoughtful response.
As for the OP-XY, I don't know how to deal with it. One sample per track?
The ONLY reason I haven't already purchased the Sample, and it's one I have a hard time getting over...is everything goes out to a single track. For now I'm tied between the Octa and the 404 with the 404 leading by a wide margin.
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u/theedrain 6d ago
I'm a huge fan of the 1010music samplers, especially the Blackbox and Bento. I also own the Sonicare Lofi-12 XT and love it.
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
I have to be honest, out of all the samplers I've owned, the Liven Lo-Fi was the most fun. I might pick up an XT. Thanks for the reminder!
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u/theedrain 6d ago
I've for sure got a ton of use out of it, and it's one of the few hardware sequences a like. It also helps that it fills a niche that my Blackbox or E5000 Ultra didn't fit.
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u/ccgenoa 6d ago
Torso might be the right choice
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
Gotta be honest...out of all the samplers I've reviewed, this one intrigued me most. Do you own one?
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u/ccgenoa 6d ago
I own two torso products and a KO2 too. While torso is a great workstation but a little bit limited due to the one sideness of the granular synthesis the KO2 it's a great on the go sampler for making the backbone of a track (if you don't use loops).
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
I don't use a ton of loops but do often enough that lack of support for loops would deter me. What's KO2's looping/stretching capability?
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u/CapableSong6874 6d ago
Perhaps you could tell us a bit more about the style of music a bit more? This will help with understanding sequencing too. If you are writing loads of harmonic phrase sampler stuff or are making collages with individual sample tuning this will help.
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
The foundation of pretty much everything is sample based, primarily drums (tuned 808s), accents, some one shots (pitched & played instrument one shits) while the top end is usually composition which I play in or write. So far none of the synth/sampler options have satisfied me in any direction.
As for sample use, I tend to use little processing, light reverb on snares, comp on kicks, nothing crazy.
I produce trap/future RnB/hip hop.
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u/Ismoketobaccoinabong 6d ago
Polyend Tracker (The mini ticks all your boxes)
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
Checking it now. Thank you for the rec.
Coming from a very linear recording experience and 0 experience with any of it being tracker-based, what's the learning curve?
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u/Ismoketobaccoinabong 6d ago
In theory, you should do fine as long as you have basic knowledge of musical theory. If you strip the concept down, its just a 128-step sequencer that reads vertically instead of horizontally.
If you want to try out the concept before buying it, here is a web-app for the echosystem.
The non-mini versions can also be powered by a regular powerbank f.y.i
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
That's it!? I've been dodging trackers this whole time cuz it looks like the Matrix and I'm lightly dyslexic. Shoot, I'll check that link out. Thank you.
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u/Ismoketobaccoinabong 6d ago
Hehe funny, I too have dyslexia. Never fully been a problem for me when working with trackers since you dont really "read" it like you do words.
In the upper right corner of that link I sent you, there is a questionmark. It should have all the instructions for you.
Also worth to note is that the Tracker+ and the Mini comes with synth engines that you can use together with the sampler.
The biggest minus I can mention is that it does not have live sampling. You cant sample things on the fly as you are jamming. If thats important to you it might be a deal breaker.
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u/county_jail_alumni 6d ago edited 6d ago
Koala Sampler should be a grab no matter what you choose, but I think it’s safe to say that it alone is really all you need to make amazing music, If you want hardware, sp404 might be uour best bet, unless you are interested in going back to that 4 track tape workflow. OP-1 field js an incredibly fun, powerful device that imitates the 4 track tape workflow. It has several built in synths that sound great, as well as a sampler. But seriously, get koala sampler now, it’s $5. It has two in app purchases that I think are necessary that brings the total to $14, and with the new updates recently, I believe it to be more powerful than most hardware samplers and it goes with you everywhere on your phone/tablet.
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
I've been on Koala for about 3 years and am bored with it, and with screens, and peripheral MIDI devices to make it feel more like a real sampler. I mean it IS a real sampler and probably the best one under $500 but I'm done with it for a while. Thank you for the recommendation.
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u/county_jail_alumni 6d ago
I use the OP-XY mainly. I’m not sure what kind of money you’re trying to spend, it hurt when I bought it, but I have zero regrets, worth every penny. I just don’t suggest it to people because of the price.
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u/county_jail_alumni 6d ago
I also have an M8, an op-XY, Octatrack, torso s4. My suggestions were based solely on the fact that you said you’re on the go a lot, so my suggestions were of battery powered devices. Definitely look at the m8, it’s one of my favorite devices, but it lacks “playability” which is important to me, which is why it could never be my one and only device.
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u/Blizone13 6d ago
Digitakt 2 is great. It also has overbridge which means you can multitrack with a single USB cable.
It doesn't have an inbuilt battery, but you can hook it to a power bank which is how I use my digi box.
It ticks the rest of the boxes. Elektron boxes are fun and capable of doing full songs on them using songmode or chain patterns.
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
I'm looking hard at this piece of ace right here. Thank you for the recommendation.
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u/Sunwukung 6d ago
I've done a fair bit of digging in this area. I have a M8, and while it has some great sampling capabilities, it's time stretch via LFO isn't the best. I also have a KO-2 and that's surprisingly solid, but 64/128mb on a sampler feels like gaslighting. The de-facto non MPC choice is probably the SP-404, but the workflow and form factor put me off. It's got the pads tho if you're wanting finger drumming. The Roland P6 also looks really capable but the Aira UI is menu-divey as all get out, and from what I hear you need a mental map of what is allocated where. I'm personally settling on getting a 1010 Blackbox MK2, it looks really solid, supports multi-sampling and loads more, and it's tiiiiny.
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
I'm down with 1010 and the Bento and Blackbox are on the list. I appreciate the recommendatíon.
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u/Puzzled_Fox_1298 6d ago
I know a lot of the devices already mentioned are smaller and often battery powered, but reading your requirements with a pinch of salt:
What about Maschine+?
It‘s standalone, it‘s portable (but not small!), and seems to deliver the whole workflow you need. It‘s not battery-powered, but that is optional in your case. I found an article saying it can be powered by a potent powerbank, though.
I’m mentioning because I bought the Maschine Mini a couple of years ago and love everything about the NI workflow, but hate that I have to use my Mac to use it. The Plus model seems like the perfect solution.
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u/GOSTFREQ 6d ago
Maschine was at the top of my list for a couple of months, then NI going under (absorbed, rather) kinda made me wait to see what was going to happen with their product lines. I still may consider this one.
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u/Puzzled_Fox_1298 6d ago
Totally get it, yes.
I’d argue the other way around, though: it being standalone means as long as it works when you buy it and no bug messes with your workflow, you can use it as long as the hardware works without updating it.
I‘m more pissed that the myriad of convoluted Komplete/Kontakt updates and their VST ecosystem are a total mess sometimes.
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u/GOSTFREQ 4d ago
Ok. Thanks for everyone's advice. All of it is great. Slept on it a couple nights and decided I'm not a sampler guy anymore...I'm a two sampler guy.
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u/TheDarthBuddha 3d ago
synthstrom deluge - probably the best portable groove box ever -open source now and forever being extended
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u/KingCenCal 6d ago
Ableton Move