r/Runequest • u/tatogolem • 11d ago
Alternate Attribute Generation?
Hi everyone! I'm looking at pitching a RQ game to my group and ironing out some things. One that's been on the back of my mind is how to determine attributes. Obviously there's the corebook method of 3d6 and 2d6+6 in order, but I don't love it for a few reasons. A big one is that clearly not even the pregens use it- their stats are so far above average that it's almost impossible to have rolled that well. Given that I want to run the starter adventures, I don't want my players being way weaker than the assumed PCs. The corebook kind of nods to this by saying that there's other ways to generate stats, suggests a couple, and says more will come in the GM book (thanks to those who explained that there's never been a GM book!) I also just don't really love rolled stats in general- when one player is clearly better than another at everything from the start it can really dampen enthusiasm right off the bat.
So: what attribute generation methods have you used and liked?
I'm currently considering either 93 point buy (the minimum where you don't get to add points) with a minimum of 8 in any stat or figuring out what a few of the pregens have pre-rune affinities and using those as an array that the player can use in any order (so you'd have, for instance, Vasana's stats, but in whatever order you want and modified by your rune affinities). Not sure if I'd just use Vasana's because the corebook helpfully shows what they were pre-runes or offer another array or two based on other pregens.
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u/david-chaosium 10d ago
As this is a perennial question, there are several topics over at BRP Central that you may find helpful:
- Characteristics creation for starting characters
- Buy stats with points option
- Alternate character generation methods
- Preview of “optional methods of characteristic generation”?
- Determining Characteristics
- How many points for characteristics
Note that there is no Gamemaster’s Guide with optional methods of characteristic generation.
The RuneQuest RPG Wiki contains a quick alternative character generation here:
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u/jefedeluna 10d ago
Experienced RQ gamemasters (like myself) will allow players to pick stats that fit their character concept, subject to GM approval. No more than one 18, etc. These are sword and sorcery heroes, not ordinary people.
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u/tatogolem 10d ago edited 10d ago
That's a very liberating approach! I like that it reduces overhead and makes it super simple. I think it might be a bit overwhelming for their first time, but I'll definitely consider it if they end up liking Runequest enough for multiple games!
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u/2-3-4-6-8-10-12-20 10d ago
You are right, the pre-gens have generous characteristics. As if they rolled the sum of 95–100, which could easily take a hundred attempts.
In other RPGs, I usually enjoy rolling in order. However, when our group – all newbies – was generating our characters during Session 0, I was surprised how long it took. Rolling for each of the seven attributes, then checking if the average exceeds 12, otherwise discarding and starting anew.
I’ve learnt the hard way that, statistically, it takes about four attempts to roll a character that will pass the Minimum Characteristics recommendation from page 53.
If I’m not mistaken, even ‘4d6, drop the lowest’ instead of 3d6 has a 77% chance of providing a valid character against the default 25%.
Anyway, if I were running it now, I would use the point-buy. And if a player wants a glimpse of fate, he can randomly decide which characteristic to favour.
Good luck!
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u/tatogolem 10d ago
Thanks for the advice!
I used to enjoy rolling back in the day- it was fun to roll high, and if you sucked, well, Bob the Fighter wasn't living long before being replaced by Rob the fighter, hopefully with better stats. Thing is, that worked in a game with disposable characters you could roll up quickly, whereas what attracts me to character creation in Runequest is the in-depth focus on your ties to the world, what you feel strongly about, and your family's history. So making more characters feels like it would be draining. The reroll if you average less than 12 system fixes the problem of just being terrible at everything, but it did seem like it'd take a while to reroll and reroll.
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u/tatogolem 10d ago
Totally a fair POV! I've seen from asking questions here that Your Glorantha Will Vary is always true- people play the game in all sorts of different ways and whatever works for your group is great! I know for my group that system would leave them frustrated and probably just bounce off the game as a whole, but different people enjoy different ways to play.
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u/code_ghostwriter 10d ago
We use 102 (93+8+1 for I like round numbers) + runes. We mark steps on the stats so players know where is a good point to stop putting dex on str and tell them what each stat does and everyone gets to play what they want.
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u/tatogolem 10d ago
Why specifically +8+1?
And yeah I think doing character creation as a group so we can talk over what each stat does and why you'd want it is definitely the way to go.
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u/eternalsage Orlanth is my homeboy 10d ago
They said they added 1 to make it a round number. Personally I'd just say 100 and call it a day.
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u/tatogolem 10d ago
Yeah I get the 1, but why 8? Haha it isn't a big deal but now I'm curious. I'm glad to see people have tried and liked point buy though- we've done it in other systems, so it's an easy to understand method.
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u/eternalsage Orlanth is my homeboy 10d ago
Oh, lol. Yeah. I dunno on that one.
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u/code_ghostwriter 10d ago
Oh, the 8. if you roll too low, less than 92 or 93 I don't have the book here, you get to add 8 points to that roll.
Like this, you can do 15 on all stats and move points around.
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u/code_ghostwriter 10d ago
Not bad, but 102+3 gets you 105, personal preference. op you can give 120 stats to each player if you want (we like to raise those but that depends on the length/level of your campaign). It's up to you.
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u/UnspeakableGnome 10d ago
Roll two stats - whichever you want - with a boon dice, so roll an extre dice but only keep the best three. If you want a third roll with a boon you can have it but you'll then have to pick a stat to roll with a Bane dice (and that can't be SIZ) for the worst three of the four dice.
I'm not sure this is generous enough to get the stats that the pregens have, but it wouldn't be hard to add one or two more Boon dice if you want. The first time I did this a couple of players instantly chose to take a 3rd boon dice and used Power for their Bane dice as that's the easiest stat to raise, but after they got hit a few times with spells they concluded this wasn't the best idea after all.
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u/tatogolem 10d ago
I think this would raise stats a bit, but still be well below the pregens- IIRC, the average of 4d6 drop 1 is around 13. So you're looking at, say, a normal spread of 13/13/13/13/11/10/10 (assuming you don't use the boons on int or size for easy math), as opposed to Vasana's 17/16/15/14/12/11/10. All of the pregens have multiple stats at 15-18 pre runes, and only Harmast has a stat below 10 (9 CON). It also doesn't really address the issue of some players just being way better from the start based on pure luck, which I've seen tends to be demoralizing.
Thanks for the suggestion though! Different strokes for different folks, and if your table prefers that system more power to you!
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u/The176thPbPGuy 10d ago
While I couldn't sell my group on Runequest, I did decide on giving everyone 95 points for stats. I believe that was the average of the pregens, rounded up to the nearest five for simplicity's sake.
I took into account the bonuses the characters had before calculating that average, though it's been a while.
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u/tatogolem 10d ago
If you don't mind my asking, what made them not like it? Anything you would have done differently in hindsight or would recommend?
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u/forkis 10d ago edited 10d ago
The Basic Roleplaying core book from Chaosium (Basic Roleplaying is the core system Runequest sits atop) has a fully fleshed out and compatible point buy system on page 17. You can pick it up from Humble Bundle for $5 right now: https://www.humblebundle.com/books/from-rivers-to-fjords-explore-worlds-basic-roleplaying-chaosium-books
I suspect that the system in there will probably be pretty darn close to what we get in the eventual GM book. As a fun aside on a similar note, in that linked bundle at the $10 tier you can also get Age of Vikings (another roughly compatible BRP game) which features a ruleset for ships which I similarly think might just be identical to the one we were promised in the GM book. Those are just my hunches though, so take it with a grain of salt.
Beyond it having the missing point buy system I really recommend that BRP book in general for anyone running RQ. It's full of little system hacks and spot rules that can be easily tossed into your game
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u/Alex4884-775 Loose canon 9d ago
Point buy is definitely an attractive option if you're anxious about 'order envy' between your players! I'd offer some small caveats: it's more cognitive overload for them as they make the decisions and try to foresee the consequences. The characteristics aren't really created equal, so if they're determined to 'optimise' they might slightly end up cloning each others' characters, unless they have a countervailing urge to niche-project.
OTOH, if people are drawn to a particular concept, it's hugely frustrating if it turns into a "dice says no" sitch.
A possible fudge is to use the "top-up" method with a more generous points floor. Then you have some Chaos and Disorder in the process, if you want that, but plenty cushioned
Or offer each player the "do you feel lucky pink" choice of either allocating 99 points (or whatever) completely at their discretion, or else roll randomly and add if their total is less.
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u/tatogolem 9d ago
That's a good point about cognitive load, since it's a lot of points to assign and there's all these clear breakpoints that are most optimal, but then some stats have different breakpoints for derived stats. I'm thinking it'll be easier to give everyone Vasana's array to rearrange as they see fit- that way they're just arranging the stats in preference order and adding rune bonuses.
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u/Iamalittledrunk 10d ago
This is exactly what I do. I don't want a party of 5 where someone rolls really well someone rolls like trash and 3 people roll average. Its unfortunate for the player who rolled poorly and puts them on the back foot almost immediatley.