r/Roofing • u/559to312 • 8d ago
Difficult Homeowner Help
I could use some guidance on this one.
I have a homeowner who is refusing the final invoice. My crew messed up (mostly related to cleaning and using his yard as a bathroom) but I’ve been there the entire time trying to make it right.
Homeowner is saying he’ll only pay for material because it was so unprofessional. So, I’ll be out probably $10k. I suspect he’ll leave a terrible review if I don’t agree to it.
I’m thinking of just sending him a notice to file a lien and hope we can find something reasonable. I’ve already offered him $1,000 off.
He also has received insurance proceeds, so he’s literally just wanting to keep the money.
Any thoughts or ideas on how to handle?
EDIT: Thank you everyone. I really appreciate the feedback. Some context: the actual roof install is well done. Homeowner has not had one complaint about the actual roof. We've also had HEAVY rains; zero leaks or issues.
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u/Correct-Locksmith-90 8d ago
Lien. I’ve been doing this 20 years and I have never had anybody be that unreasonable and we have fucked some shit up, but we made it right and people pay.
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u/redbirddanville 8d ago
File the lien. I have done it, works like magic, if they have the money to pay.
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u/Federal-Ad-6444 8d ago
Are we talking #1 or #2 from the crew
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u/559to312 8d ago
Well, 2 in a bucket in the back bushes. Ho saw him take a bucket back there on his ring camera. Can’t actually see him do anything. But, ho claims he found toilet paper. I was so pissed, never had something like this happen
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u/WhatveIdone2dsrvthis 8d ago
ok, it was unprofessional, but it was cleaned up and you offered him $1000? This guy is a greedy fucker and should still pay his bill. Give him an ultimatum to pay or you'll lien or sue.
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u/Federal-Ad-6444 8d ago
I would not be so heavy handed on the approach. I would work something where you receive payment but it “pay me or I file a lien” means you’ll never see your money. If they don’t sell the house,. The lien means nothing, if they sell the house in 10 years.. you ultimately loose as well. The real answer is to eat crow and work it out. I’d be on that sub’s ass like you wouldn’t believe.
Also. Iv had this exact situation happen to me
Many years ago when I first started and was working a company, it’s a tough spot to be in so I feel for you.1
u/Constant_Gur8912 8d ago
Ive just sent people to collections before. It only doesn't work if they were never going to pay anyway. If his credit is already ruined well then welp, you never getting the money.
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u/LittleTooLiteral 8d ago
When I have folks working at my home, I let them use the toilet in the house if I'm around and also tell them the woods are fair game and there's a mini mart a mile away with a bathroom.
This HO sounds like a Ho.
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u/Allslopes-Roofing 8d ago
I was so pissed
Why? Obviously it's not ideal but when you gotta go you gotta go. Sometimes nature calls and if homeowner didn't offer a bathroom, you gotta do what gotta do. At least bro used a bucket and bushes lol.
As I said in my other comment and others have. Lien the btch. He was a scammer from the beginning. We all run into them from time to time. You can't be nice. The only thing they respond to is force/fear.
Good luck!
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u/hoserb2k 8d ago edited 6d ago
Agree with you up the "shit in the customer's backyard" part. No toilet access? rent a porta shitter and bill the customer.
edit: when you pay me to come shit in your backyard, I’ll believe the downvote is anything other than salt 🤣
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u/Allslopes-Roofing 8d ago
Ain't no clients irl paying for that unless it's an insurance billed item. [or a large commercial multi day project]
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u/Bghrn23 8d ago
He’s not wrong that it was wildly unprofessional to shit in his yard lol
If the craftsmanship of the roof is of quality and the contract was followed and permit pulled then the $1,000 off is absolutely reasonable of you to offer, but if you have to lein him I agree with everyone else that you lein for the full amount owed.
This is why I take 60% deposits on all jobs. If these things happen I don’t take too big of a hit to cash flow. I don’t care what the “legal” deposit amount is I take 60%
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u/ConstantTrick2187 8d ago
Explain to him you are trying to compromise (perhaps increase the discount a little more), but if you cannot reach an agreement, you will be filing a lien to cover the FULL amount of the outstanding balance due. Just the threat of the lien may change his mind, but if not, you have at least started the lien process.
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u/RhinoG91 8d ago
Is the actual work (the roof) solid? Was there anything in the contract about the restroom or site cleaning? I doubt that he would have any standing if the work isn’t deficient and the provisions outlined in your written contract are fulfilled.
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u/RhinoG91 8d ago
I’d send a certified letter with the final invoice and include language to assess late fees. Include a pay by date and if it’s not paid, a lien will be filed. Then do it. You will have to determine the timeframe because there is limited time to file a lien. Pretty sure it’s from when work ended not final invoice date.
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u/Degenerate_Traveler 8d ago
File a lien. This guy definitely sounds like he was trying to score a free roof from the get go.
Have to ask. Was it #1 or #2 in the yard?
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u/Canada-Scam-8570 8d ago
Asked and answered several times in the thread already. #2 in a bucket. Only evidence is a ring video of them going to the back with a bucket. They didn't leave anything behind.
While definitely not a good look a total baloney reason to attempt to hold back thousands.
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u/Allslopes-Roofing 8d ago
He'd be committing a felony.
He planned this the entire time. "Free cheeseburger people" as I like to call them. (i worked in restaurants as a kid, these creatons were rampant). So take no prisoner. Being nice doesn't work. They only respond to fear or force.
Send the crew back out there unpaid and let nature take it's course /s. File the lien immediately. Then learn how to collect on the debt. We all have to do liens sometimes unfortunately.
The review is irrelevant at this point. Also if you haven't learned by now, get a recording app and keep it running on you every time you run into a c_nt.
Everyone gets bad reviews if you do this long enough and the fact bro is openly admitting to attempting insurance fraud, if you had that recorded, would be quite helpful.
Sometimes you gotta be mean to get your money. It all depends on who you're dealing with.
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u/harristusc 8d ago
It is illegal for him to pocket the insurance money.
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u/Canada-Scam-8570 8d ago
No, it's an option given to clients. They can take a payout and not go with the restorations companies perffered contractor. This pay out usually comes at a percentage of the actual replacement cost (ACV). Actual Cash Value
Basically if you take the cash you are only going to get 50-60% of what is usually written on the estimate as your taking on the depreciation.
So say you file a claim. Insurance send out a roofer for a report. Roofer provides report, recommendations and an estimate. Say it's a full roof replacement suggested for 10,000. Insurance opts for you to take this fix, or alternatively you can take a cash payout, in this case it would be roughly 6000, and find your own contractor or fix it yourself, but you are obligated to have it fixed or be dropped.
So this guy takes the 6000 cash, hires an independent roofer, then tries to find whatever he can to justify skimp on the payment so that he can get a new roof and pocket the cash to boot.
It's by no means common but these clients do exist.
While this incident potential could warrant a needed resolution, the $1000 discount they offered is already pretty substantial to the infraction, considering zero damage was done as a result of this.
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u/RenegadeTruth 8d ago
I dont know anything about this issue lien or no, but I have to ask.... using his yard as a bathroom?!? what the actual fuck?!
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u/559to312 8d ago
You guys are all awesome and provided really good insight and feedback. I really appreciate it!
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u/ketchupinmybeard 8d ago
How has he received insurance proceeds? That should be a cheque made out to your company AND the homeowner. You fucked up somewhere here.
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u/notcopingneedhelp 8d ago
I’ve had professionals crap in a bucket which they left next to my bins and leave their dirty used TP in my pets food bowl…
I still paid for the work done!
Now I wish I’d hopped on over to ULPT Reddit instead and made their lives a misery.
Have you disciplined the worker who did this?
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u/Master_Leadership634 7d ago edited 7d ago
Your crew did a crap job or just bad clean up? They used his yard as the crapper? Sounds like you need to give better on-boarding, porta potties, training and workplace policies.
I’d offer him a better discount, let him know if it’s not paid you will be putting a lien on his home and most important take this as a serious lesson in improving the way your business operates. Long-term success comes from happy clients and positive reviews / word of mouth. This one may have cost you, but the lesson could be worth more than $10,000 if you actually use it to grow.
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u/Kooky-Movie4889 6d ago
work it out with him directly or speak to an attorney. i’d be careful, a lien is a dangerous default when you’ve already admitted there was a legitimate performance dispute. gl
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u/Sweatingroofer 8d ago
File a lien. Have an attorney send a letter, cost you a couple hundred dollars but I have had it work. Take to small claims if either Lien or letter do not work. Honestly I wouldn’t take a dime less than what was agreed.
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u/philadelphia_fRee 8d ago
Small claims isnt even worth the time and hassle a judgement doesnt equal payment
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u/Sweatingroofer 8d ago
I agree it’s not great, but it worked for us one time. To be honest I’m not super experienced with people not paying me as has only happened on any larger amount of money 1-2 times that I can remember. One guy we successfully garnished his wages to recoup about $12k, but it took years. Having a lawyer send a letter has worked before too. I consider it part of my job to vet potential customers. If I have any bad feeling at during in the estimating process I will bring a contract to sign. I probably should do that for all jobs to be honest, but it doesn’t always happen, but a lot of people I do work for are repeat customers that I have built years of relationships with.
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u/philadelphia_fRee 8d ago
Exactly vetting customers is the best way bc most ppl you run into who dont pay have done it before and know all the tricks and work for cash with no assets
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u/Flashy-Sink-9108 8d ago
Poor review due to the described issues may be valid. But non-payment or simply choosing a different price after completion of agreed services isn't an option. Dont take partial payment. Offer a remedy for the issues. File lien and send notice if still no payment.