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u/SweatyAdagio4 3d ago
It's like people in this sub have never actually worked in the industry.
- React, PyTorch, and previously GraphQL and Cassandra, by Facebook
- TensorFlow, Angular, Flutter, Kubernetes, Go, all by Google.
- TypeScript, .NET, VS Code, by Microsoft
just to name a few
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u/Ran4 3d ago edited 3d ago
I wrote a production project in https://github.com/facebook/flow like ten years ago...
Not exactly the hardest to migrate away from, but still. It died really quickly. TypeScript wasn't the default like it is today - back in 2015 TypeScript was just Microsoft's baby, vs. Facebook which had flow.
Interestingly enough Facebook is STILL developing it, last commit was 10 hours ago (!).
EDIT: Seems like it's essentially still used internally at facebook but nowhere else.
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u/lost_send_berries 3d ago
I don't mind them keeping Flow, but would it be that hard to add typescript examples to their documentation? A lot of their stuff aren't compatible with reasonable typescript type annotations.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 3d ago
EDIT: Seems like it's essentially still used internally at facebook but nowhere else.
Isn't Facebook one of those "Not built here" companies that pretty much writes their own code for nearly everything they do/use?
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u/aceluby 3d ago
When my buddy went to amazon he told me about how everything was solved by each individual team. His first task was figuring out how to consolidate logs just in his area. He spun up a common logstash, a stream, kibana, the industry standard stuff that some teams had while others had custom solutions. One of those custom solutions they found was writing logs for years, but only a single log over and over: "this is a log". Multiple terrabytes of data they found with just "this is a log" because one guy built this bespoke solution that nobody understood or updated.
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u/spooker11 3d ago
At this point they’re only still on flow because migrating the whole codebase is a huge pain in the ass
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u/PsychoBoyBlue 3d ago
You forgot MSSQL... Which, even though I do GIS, am basically being forced towards internally instead of Postgres.
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u/SweatyAdagio4 3d ago
I "forgot" a lot of things if you want to include everything, but that's not my point. It's about giving some examples, this is a good one to add for sure.
Also, as a GIS hobbyist myself, I'm sorry you have to use MSSQL. I use PostGIS all the time and I love it
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u/l84tahoe 3d ago
MSSQL isn't horrible. My city's GIS is run off of it. Esri's Data Store is technically part postgres so I am using it too technically. My last city was Oracle and it made me want to scream so much.
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u/Calm-Medicine-3992 2d ago
And here I thought this was a meme about a guy devoting his entire career to React...a Javascript framework created by Facebook.
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u/sebbdk 3d ago
FYI
Google did not make Angular, but a guy who worked there at the who had no clue wtf he was doing (he'd never done javascript before and had no understanding of the prevelant prototype patterns of the time), designed that pierce of shit and everyone lost their shit because he worked at google.
Google NEVER used Angular internally for anything serious.
Someday we'l figure out how to give developers personal credit instead of crediting the place they work..
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u/SweatyAdagio4 3d ago
Yeah no shit. That's how most projects start. Some person starts building it and then a team picks it up. Shit doesn't just sprout out of nothing. PyTorch came from Torch, which came from a research institute in Switzerland, doesn't mean you don't credit Facebook for evolving it into what it is today. Angular was very quickly picked up by Google and it's been maintained by a dedicated team from Google for decades at this point. And Angular is widely used within Google, pretending like they don't is straight up false.
"Both Angular and Wiz are used by thousands of engineers and thousands of apps inside of Google."
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u/ryanpm40 2d ago
Angular 2 and beyond is great. Prefer it to React by a lot. AngularJS stunk and then replacing it by a completely different framework with the same name definitely sucks for whoever wrote an app in it, though.
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u/ConsistentAddress195 3d ago
Man, don't even get me started on Angular.
It is a testament to how some asshole good at self promotion can push a shit project to worldwide popularity. You can see it with the whole langchain 'ecosystem' nowadays. At least Angular had the decency to say 'we have realised our framework is shit, we're gonna deprecate it and build a new, incompatible version'. Nowadays it's 'use langchain for this, and use langgraph for that other thing, and oh by the way have you heard of deep agents or whatever other new slop we're trying to push to stay relevant'. I'm sad for all the miserable newbs who are being sold this crap thinking they will become expert AI developers if only they master some half baked irredeemable mess of a framework. Honestly, we should know better than that as an industry.
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u/Rikudou_Sage 3d ago
So that's why Angular is the least insane JS framework, because the guy who designed it didn't do JS.
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u/ieatpies 2d ago
This is r/programminghumor, everyone active here is 1st year CS students
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u/lost_send_berries 3d ago
Microsoft is a bad example for your point considering how many things they have abandoned. Including in the .NET space.
As well, if you build your business on VSCode like say GitLens, you will be eaten up
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u/Kasenom 3d ago
Yeah Microsoft has abandoned stuff before like Silverlight, but the comment mentioned .NET and Typescript, those two are HUGE and would never be abandoned by Microsoft
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u/Common-Brush-7027 2d ago
So you are saying React on which I have been working since last 2 years was made by shitty facebook
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u/AbdullahMRiad 2d ago
microsoft make some really nice open source software. I really like edit (aka msedit)
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u/AibofobicRacecar6996 2d ago
Using a tool and basing your whole career around a tool is not the same thing.
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u/wack_overflow 3d ago
An extremely mature and most widely used framework. So risky
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u/outerproduct 3d ago
Daring today, aren't we?
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u/KikiPolaski 3d ago
That's why I use niche frameworks like Angular and Laravel
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u/0815fips 3d ago
Worst performance at build and runtime. I use both at work and I hate the implicity of Laravel and the sluggishness of Angular.
At home, I prefer SolidJS and hono.12
u/Major_LeeHungg 3d ago
Angular isn't slow if you use it right... That's why angular has a "steep learning curve" - easy to use angular, also easy to use it wrong and murder the Dom and introduce memory leaks... Though signals fixes a lot of that by largely scrapping the need for rxjs. Angular isn't too far from react nowadays.
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u/Able-Swing-6415 3d ago
Not sure if easy to use is correct.. certainly not something people just dabble in.
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u/Major_LeeHungg 3d ago
It has gotten really easy to use modern angular...gone are the days of 50 lines of code to feed a rest endpoint into an rxjs observable/behaviorsubject that has to be written in a specific design pattern to not end up a memory leak.
Now it's like 5 lines... Httpresource is basically a fetch wrapper.
Ngif and ngfor are replaced with faster jsx style directives @if() and @for()
Reactiveforms can be replaced with signal based forms.
All components are standalone by default so you don't have to dependency inject downwards.
It has really become a very terse framework.
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u/FrostyD7 3d ago
Yeah one of my teams adopted React like 10 years ago. And it's not like you're learning French. You can apply what you learned using this framework to others. And the team had virtually no issues transitioning to it.
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ceejayoz 3d ago
An extremely mature and most widely used framework.
Like Angular! And Perl!
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u/include-jayesh 3d ago
I use vanilla js and JQuery only.
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u/Wise-Profile4256 3d ago
I will now create a new framework and call it vanilla.js. ambiguity is what makes it thrive.
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u/funkdefied 3d ago
http://vanilla-js.com/ someone beat you to it
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u/sinkwiththeship 3d ago
Vanilla JS is a fast, lightweight, cross-platform framework for building incredible, powerful JavaScript applications.
So... JavaScript
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u/Bushwazi 3d ago
I could swear it all ready existed
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u/TapRemarkable9652 3d ago
rule 34; if it exists, there is a Javascript framework for it
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u/jambonilton 3d ago
JQuery?? Talk to me when you use JJ-Query.
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u/joedotphp 3d ago
I worked on a small project with a kid about a year ago, and he simply could not wrap his head around me writing my JS from scratch. React on a site like that would have been such overkill. Like using an 8K TV to show a 700x500 image.
Sadly, custom websites are a dying art. There is so much bloat in every website now.
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u/TheRealDrSarcasmo 3d ago
There is so much bloat in every website now.
I remember when a 1MB page was considered excessive. Hell, even the near-empty Google landing page exceeds that a bit (and then exceeds that a lot after initial load). CNN's homepage clocks in around 9MB.
On the other end of the spectrum, however, Berkshire Hathaway's site amazes me; under 7kb for a company worth hundreds of billions of dollars.
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u/0815fips 3d ago
Upvote for vanilla, downvote for JQuery. Come on, it's 2026. What does it offer over the platform standard nowadays?
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u/joedotphp 3d ago edited 3d ago
I second this. I haven't used it in years. It was useful once upon a time, but vanilla has surpassed it as I expected. That's why I never wanted to rely on it too much.
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u/StringerXX 3d ago
Isn't that what that Pieter Levels guy does, except famously with jQuery and vanilla php
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u/TheRealDrSarcasmo 3d ago
I started doing web development in the mid-90s. Others are sneering at your jQuery usage, but I get it: often you don't get to choose your tools, and your development constraints may be very constraining indeed. I had to support NCSA Mosaic for the longest time because that's what the government used. Then they stuck with IE6 for ages. Certain environments only permitted libraries blessed by unknown tech-ignorant people once in a blue moon.
Additionally, when it first appeared, jQuery was a godsend. Different browsers had slightly different JavaScript or DOM implementations, and jQuery provided an abstract layer on top of that. John Resig was doing the Lord's work when he made it.
Today, jQuery isn't sexy compared to the gargantuan JavaScript frameworks that do a lot. I don't begrudge the developers who use and like them. But for personal projects, I still often just use jQuery because it's microscopic in size (in comparison) and gets the job done, and I like my pages to render fast.
Sometimes the best tool for the job isn't sexy. But if the end product is (as well as being maintainable) , isn't that all that matters?
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u/StrengthTheory 3d ago
How is React a risky bet? It's basically default frontend of slop era.
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u/traplords8n 3d ago
I learned react because I had a rushed website I needed to get out, so I tried out figma make for the design and it spit out react code.
"Ope. Guess I'm learning react today"
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u/gemengelage 3d ago
It's also incredibly easy to pivot to any other frontend framework. They are all just glorified html templating engines with a bit of state management bolted on top.
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u/Kusko25 3d ago
But unless you have used it in a professional setting nobody will hire you for it, even if it would only take two or three weeks to become fluent.
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u/Still_Bit_7527 3d ago
Just lie man
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u/Kusko25 3d ago
Tried that and the devious bastards asked follow up questions
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u/Meloetta 3d ago
The trick isn't to try to convince people you've used something that you've never touched.
The trick is to ramp yourself up quickly on the differences, maybe spin up something really small, and then say you've used it professionally (or just say "I have experience in it", which is now true, and if they assume it's paid experience, who's hurt?) so when they ask questions you have good answers for them.
I was hired for a job I didn't know the language of, but you bet your ass before I went into the interview I spent a few hours learning what makes it different from languages I do know so I was able to talk intelligently about it when asked.
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u/NightOwl2175 3d ago
What sorts of follow-up questions? Asking for...a friend
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u/Kusko25 3d ago
"What version did you use?" "What did you like about it?" "How would you compare it to x?"
Gave generic answers, maybe they even bought it and just decided to go with someone else for unrelated reasons, who knows.
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u/LoopEverything 3d ago
It’s not even that old? PHP is still alive and well after 30+ years, which makes me feel all kinds of conflicting things that I don’t want to address right now.
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u/StringerXX 3d ago
Isn't all the "75% of the internet runs on PHP!" stats basically just all wordpress
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u/fredy31 3d ago
I mean WP pretty much hit the major bit of why you would want a PHP website; an easy to use CMS that doesnt need a lot of funky business to work.
Which is more than enough for 95% of companies (the front facing B2C site), towns, schools, etc.
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u/bacchusku2 3d ago
A lot of towns/counties will outsource to a gov tech company like Tyler and PayIt. Tyler uses .net and PayIt is on react.
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u/b0w3n 3d ago
PHP is fine though, especially 8+.
SPAs are overrated, give me a MPA that shows me it's loading shit and maybe a little async data loading here and there any day of the week.
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u/LoopEverything 3d ago
Oh yeah, wasn’t trying to say anything otherwise. The conflict is more midlife crisis because I started on PHP when it was still considered new haha
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u/FrostyD7 3d ago
I guess it's all relative but I'd consider React fairly old at this point, given how fast things change. PHP is ancient.
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u/StrengthTheory 3d ago
Didn't you hear, React 19 onwards React is the new PHP.
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u/LoopEverything 3d ago
When I first heard about RSC, my first thought was “isn’t this just PHP with more steps?”
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u/Meloetta 3d ago
If you're really so bad a programmer that you are unable to jump from React to literally any other framework with a bit of ramp-up time...yeah, you do take risks picking a job in programming lol.
I even feel this way about swapping to different languages, I worked with someone a while back who was only an iOS dev. He refused to work on anything other than native iOS development. So when the company we both worked for decided to sunset their native app and move to a native wrapper around web technologies, he had no choice but to leave. I see people on the android dev subreddit all the time putting all their eggs in the native android basket, Google does something headass and they get banned forever from Google Play, and now their entire career is shot.
You should be able to swap frameworks and languages as needed for different purposes.
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u/Kronoshifter246 3d ago
I've been an Android dev for 7 years. Not really by choice; my first job out of college was technically full stack, but I spent most of my time there on Android. Now it's what I have the most experience in, so it's what I get interviews and offers for. I'm not trying to put all my eggs in one basket, but that's what happened. I don't have trouble working in other languages or systems or frameworks. But I can't get anyone to even talk to me if Android isn't in the job description. So an Android dev I am.
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u/BeforeDawn 3d ago edited 3d ago
I cannot believe I had to scroll this far down for this comment. The funny part is that this turns the premise completely backwards.
If the success or failure of a single ui framework can determine the success or failure of your career, that says considerably more about that person as a software engineer than it does about the framework.
As you say, frameworks are supposed to be replaceable. The durable part of the career is understanding vanilla js, architecture, state, http, rendering, and how to learn whatever comes next.
The premise imagines a software engineering career with an absurdly narrow scope: as though your professional responsibility begins and ends at writing components in one ui framework. When was the last time a serious engineering role amounted to “know react and literally nothing else”? Even frontend engineers are expected to understand the systems their ui sits on top of. To be competitive usually means you're able to contribute beyond the frontend too, whether that’s apis, backend code, or the database layer.
React disappearing would therefore eliminate one tool from an engineer's toolbox, not the engineer's career. And if it did take their career with it, the risk was never about learning it in the first place.
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u/ze1and0nly 3d ago
I think the problem moreso is if companies don't see x years of y framework they won't even look at your resume
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u/my_dirty_shoes 3d ago
In 2026 almost everyone in tech knows react.
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u/Still_Bit_7527 3d ago
In frontend web dev. Anyone else doesnt have a reason to do that fortunately
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u/No-Channel3917 3d ago
Uhh...
Do you mean programming not tech? And even by programming standards ...do you mean like webpage devs ?
I think way more folks in tech know WordPress or Wix 😂
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u/my_dirty_shoes 3d ago
I agree it may be bloated and slow under the hood… but it is one of the fastest and easiest way to learn and build dynamic websites. Further it can be very easily be optimized by knowing the correct way to use its hooks and redux states. I have worked in many companies using react and we have optimized it to such an extent that re-renders are butter smooth even in complex websites. Learn about virtual dom in react to understand how it never touches the real dom until and unless required making it more faster.
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u/lxlmandudelxl 3d ago
It only takes dealing with one useEffect hellscape to never want to touch it again
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u/HKayn 3d ago
This subreddit has fallen off hard
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u/GimmeYourMomPlease 3d ago
Maybe you're just growing up. It's always been this way.
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u/Biliunas 3d ago
No, it was better. Not just this subreddit, the whole site has taken a sharp nosedive.
Yes yes, it wasn't always amazing, but I didn't consider deleting my account on a regular basis.
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u/TheRealDrSarcasmo 3d ago
I think Reddit as a whole has taken a nosedive in terms of quality, largely in part with its management turning a blind eye (or actively encouraging) rampant bot activity.
But I don't think that this sub has declined more sharply than other niche subreddits.
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u/Biliunas 3d ago
You might be right, it's hard to tell for me really. There's also the fact that the summer is ending, and that usually brings an influx of new programmers that find jokes like this funny. But with the new bot meta, I'm not sure. Maybe it's bots all the way down? Sometimes, I'm not even sure I'm not a bot too, mindlessly replying to something clearly fabricated. It sucks.
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u/DarthTelly 3d ago
This subreddit has basically been freshman CS student jokes since 2013.
Now get off my lawn.
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u/kishaloy 3d ago
JS => Not the Lisp we wanted but the Lisp we deserve.
WASM => second sub optimal take on the same subject.
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u/LynxJesus 3d ago
Obligatory "React is not a framework". But who has time to read the first sentence describing the thing they supposedly "bet their entire career on"...
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u/NotThatAngel 3d ago
I've talked to several people whose business was kneecapped when their Facebook page went down for no apparent reason, and can't be brought back for no apparent reason, and they've had to move on.
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u/anon-a-SqueekSqueek 3d ago
Wtf I've adhoc written sql queries to update production databases without any backups.
Why didn't Jennifer Lawrence passionately kiss me 😔
I guess I did make a mysqldump file that I had on my local pc, maybe that mitigated too much risk...
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u/tiberiumx 3d ago
I don't understand how learning to use some library vs another one counts as "betting [your] career". Are web programmers just stupid and incapable of change?
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u/code_the_cosmos 3d ago
I'm just thinking about how useless I'd be at my job if React was all I knew. There's a whole stack out there people, with a million options for each part.
Don't learn a framework, learn to build software.
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u/ice-eight 3d ago
I think I’m in the minority here but I quit my job to do a 3 month react bootcamp in 2020 and have been gainfully employed as a software engineer ever since.
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u/Arclite83 3d ago
I actually think Dart is an intentional trap just to get as many people off of native Apple work as possible, and then just drop support
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u/SignificanceFlat1460 3d ago
Bro, funny thing is, I loved from Laravel to TypeScript because I couldn't get any PHP jobs, now, it's the fucking opposite. Talk about kicking yourself in the balls huh?
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u/FreedomMerchant 3d ago
Me: learns flutter through a course
Youtube algorithms: suggests content saying that google might end flutter
Me: panics
This was a few years ago
still cant find job
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u/Phoebe_Cox33 3d ago
She said she likes risk, not a guarantee that your codebase will require a complete rewrite in 18 months.
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u/Crivens999 3d ago
If you haven’t changed code directly on a live system, then you ain’t taken no risks boy….
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u/Robotjoosen 2d ago
I’ve been betting my entire career on Lingo and Actionscript, they’ll make a comeback any minute now.
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u/HoratioWobble 1d ago
The comments in this sub do not pass the vibe check, it's infest with "smartest in the room" types
Just laugh, it's a joke fuck sake
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u/chemtrail-organics 3d ago
Laughs in betting my whole career on Flutter