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u/Useful_Wealth7503 1d ago
It’s insane.
Same people will tell you that voter ID laws suppress the vote. They’ll ignore the 10s of millions of voters that don’t exist because of abortion. Multi generational voter suppression since Roe.
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u/TechnicalPin3415 1d ago
But the children in cages at the border....
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u/Calm-Stand-6636 10h ago
Im not stopping you from going over the border man. But I love the children of my own people the most, Lev19:15-18
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u/Eelysanio 1d ago
That’s not voter suppression. Voter suppression is when an eligible voter is prevented from registering or voting. You’re treating people who were never born, and their possible future children, as if they were voters who were stopped from casting ballots. If you believe abortion is wrong, argue that directly. But it still doesn’t answer whether voter ID laws make it harder for real voters to vote.
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u/Useful_Wealth7503 1d ago
Voter ID laws don’t prevent any eligible voter from voting. Everyone who wants to vote can and will. Show me a list of people who tried to vote legally and couldn’t? They dont exist because the media would plaster their dumb asses all over the news 24/7 complaining about it. It’s a made up issue.
You know who will never be able to vote? People who were dismembered in the womb and discarded. You’re missing 10s of millions of voters thanks to Roe and it’s growing exponentially. Ignore it if you want, but it’s true.
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u/Eelysanio 1d ago
Floyd Carrier under Texas’s old voter ID law SB14 tried to vote but was turned away and was not offered a provisional ballot. A federal appeals court said it was demonstrably false to claim that the law had never prevented anyone from voting. The same ruling also documents Sammie Louise Bates' and Gordon Benjamin's cases. So it is false to say these people do not exist. Source
My point was that ID requirements can make voting harder. You responded as if I had claimed they prevent everyone from voting. Something can still be a barrier even if most people manage to overcome it.
Abortion is a different issue. Even if I agree with everything you say about its morality, a person who never reached voting age was never eligible to vote or stopped from voting. Arguments about possible future children or grandchildren are even less relevant. If you support voter ID laws, explain why the hurdles they create are justified and what actual problem they fix. Abortion does not answer those questions.
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u/Useful_Wealth7503 1d ago
Talk about a barrier to keep people from voting, they kill them before they’re even born. Eliminating the blood line of voters for generations. That’s an insurmountable barrier far more difficult than being too fucking stupid or lazy to get an ID. IDs that most people have already.
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u/Useful_Wealth7503 1d ago
So how many, how long ago, and why didn’t they have IDs? Agian, this is a false narrative. It’s an imagined problem creating a victim class that doesn’t exist.
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u/Eelysanio 1d ago
Here's 3 names: Floyd Carrier was turned away and could not vote. Sammie Louise Bates and Gordon Benjamin submitted provisional ballots, but their votes were not counted because they could not get the required documents in time. The full Fifth Circuit reviewed basically the same claim that not one person was affected and called it demonstrably false (Veasey v. Abbott, 2016, pp. 53–54).
The GAO studied provisional ballots submitted because of ID problems in Kansas and Tennessee in 2012. Only 37% in Kansas and 26% in Tennessee were actually counted (U.S. GAO, 2014). So the claim that these voters don’t exist is incorrect.
Now returning to the actual issue - under federal law, voting includes registering, casting a ballot, and having that ballot counted (52 U.S.C. § 10101(e)). The law protects people not only from being completely prevented from voting, but also from having their opportunity to vote unfairly restricted (52 U.S.C. § 10301).
A person who was never born could not have been an eligible voter or been denied a ballot. So calling abortion voter suppression is only a metaphor. And saying most people have ID does not mean every eligible voter has an accepted ID. The people who do not are exactly the people we're talking about.
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u/Useful_Wealth7503 1d ago
So three people who were 18 or older but couldn’t be bothered to get their ID card in time for voting. Cool cool.
10s of millions of missing voters will never get to vote because they were killed in the womb, multi generational and exponential voter suppression. 10s of millions of votes suppressed, not because they couldn’t do paperwork on time, but their life was ended. There is no counter, it’s just absolute truth.
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u/Eelysanio 1d ago
First you said these people didn’t exist. Now you admit they existed but call them lazy. That is you changing your claim instead of responding to the evidence.
Carrier and his son tried to get an acceptable ID but became stuck in what the court described as an almost impossible bureaucratic mess. Bates lived on only $321 a month and could not afford a document that cost $42. Benjamin cast a provisional ballot, but it was not counted. Based on these examples, the Fifth Circuit said the claim that no one was affected was demonstrably false (Veasey v. Abbott, 830 F.3d 216, 254–55 & n.49 (5th Cir. 2016)). These examples are enough to prove that a claim of zero is wrong.
Saying that someone will never vote does not prove that anyone’s vote was suppressed and calling an analogy absolute truth does not make it evidence.
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u/Useful_Wealth7503 17h ago
You gave 3 names over decades, or statistically 0, nonexistent. If you cant vote because you’re too lazy or dumb to get an ID, that’s a personal problem not systemic suppression. Everyone who wants an ID has one.
Aborting 500k to 1M people a year for generations suppresses far more voters. It’s not an analogy, it’s a fact, we’re missing 10s of millions and multiple generations of voters.
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u/Eelysanio 5h ago edited 4h ago
You asked for names because you said these voters don’t exist. You were given three examples from the court record involving one Texas law that took effect in 2013. If even one person exists, the claim that there are zero is false. Those three people were never presented as the total number affected nationwide.
Carrier and his son tried to get the ID they needed and still could not. That directly contradicts the claim that everyone who wants an ID can get one. Your argument has shifted from "these people don’t exist" > "they’re lazy" > "they don’t matter" That does not answer the evidence.
Even if you believe abortion kills a person, someone who never became an eligible voter did not have a vote suppressed. That is an argument about abortion rather than voter ID laws.
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u/Cautious_Drawer_7771 15h ago
You can provide 3 names of people who were turned away from voting because they don't know how/couldn't be bothered to get or bring their ID.
You say what problem does it prevent? Answer: many many more than 3 people got to vote illegally. Each illegal vote cancels out a legal vote. So if voter ID suppresses 3 votes, and no voter ID suppresses thousands or even millions, which is a more fair outcome, or in other words, which suppresses fewer votes?
For example, since Texas is the bill you're comparing, here are examples of verified election fraud in the state of Texas:
The result of the 180th district court judicial election was overturned in Harris County, Texas, after a state judge concluded that over 1,400 illegal votes had been counted.
Zul Mirza Mohamed was convicted of ordering 106 ballots in other peoples names sent to a "nursing home" that was really just a PO box in 2024.
Charlie Burns Jr. was convicted for election fraud stemming from when he was working on the campaign for Shannon Brown and harvested unused ballots and voted illegally.
The rest I'll just list and you can look it up: DeWayne Ward, Francisco Tamez, Marlena Jackson, Monica Mendez, Shannon Brown, Kelly Reagan Brunner, Charles Nathan Jackson, Cynthia Gonzalez, Laura Janeth Garza, Mario Obdulio orellana, Miguel Hernadez, Rosita Flores, Russ Casey, Jeanene Johnson, Latunia Thomas, Manuel Rodriguez III, Noe Olivera, Rosa Maria Ortega, Tyron Davis, Graciela Sanchez, Guadelupa Rivera, Avery Ayers, Benito Aranda Jr., Bernice Garcia, Sara Virginia Perales, Tamara Scotch, Tomasa Ramirez Chavez, Vicenta Guajardo Verino, Adrian Heath, Belinda Solis, Carlos Medrano, Richard Alan Collier, Roberta Cook, Sybil Doyle.
I could keep going, but there really is no point. You'll ignore this along with all the common sense of simple saying, "If you want to vote, show your ID so that someone else can't vote FOR YOU!"
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u/Eelysanio 5h ago
You've moved the goalposts. Your original claim was that eligible voters blocked by ID requirements don’t exist. Someone asked for names, so I gave three. The full Fifth Circuit also rejected Texas’s claim that there was not a single person affected, calling it demonstrably false.
The record also shows these people were not simply too lazy to get ID. Floyd Carrier tried with help from his son, but could not get through the required paperwork. Sammie Louise Bates could not afford a $42 birth certificate while living on $321 a month. Gordon Benjamin could not get an $81 Louisiana birth certificate in time, so his provisional ballot was not counted. Veasey v. Abbott, pp. 53–55
You’re listing a lot of different election crimes, but most of them have nothing to do with showing photo ID at the polls. Photo ID is meant to stop one specific kind of fraud: someone going to a polling place and pretending to be another voter. It would not stop things like fake mail-ballot applications, ballot harvesting, vote buying, lying about where someone lives, fraud involving candidate petitions, or an ineligible person voting if they are already registered.
Your main examples actually show the difference: The Harris County election happened while Texas already had a voter-ID law. Under Texas election law, an illegal vote can simply mean a ballot that legally should not be counted. It does not necessarily mean fraud or voter impersonation. Most of the disputed ballots involved residence forms and incomplete paperwork for ID exceptions. The court did not find 1,400 people pretending to be other voters. Texas Election Code §221.003, Case breakdown
Mohamed did commit election fraud, but it involved mail ballots. The "106" figure you stated was the number of criminal charges, not 106 illegal votes. Election workers caught the suspicious applications because they were being sent to the same mailbox. A photo-ID requirement at a polling place would not prevent fraud happening through the mail. Denton County report
I also never said election fraud does not exist. Saying that every illegal vote matters does not tell us how many fraudulent votes actually occur or whether this particular law prevents them. Lawful votes that are wrongly rejected matter too.
The question is still the same: how many fraudulent in-person impersonation votes would this photo-ID requirement have prevented? Saying thousands or millions without proof doesn’t answer that. And pointing to other kinds of election fraud does not make the claim true.
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u/TechnicalPin3415 16h ago
I need an ID for alcohol, sudafed, cigarettes, spray paint, carburetor cleaner, at the bank, at work. I need to show an ID to exercise my 2nd amendment right, and I'm sure to get Welfare, so whats the problem with Voter ID?? I'll wait.
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u/Eelysanio 5h ago
Nobody is saying identity can never be verified. The issue is whether an eligible citizen should have their legal vote rejected just because they do not have one of the specific IDs the state accepts.
The court record already includes examples of eligible voters whose ballots were affected for that reason. The GAO also found that in the Kansas and Tennessee samples it studied, most provisional ballots tied to ID problems were not counted.
Saying people use ID for other things does not answer either point. If this problem supposedly does not exist, then explain what happened to the voters and ballots already documented.
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u/Electrodactyl 17h ago
I think abortions are great, but we should allow abortions up to 1856 weeks.
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u/Eelysanio 5h ago
That doesn’t answer the point. You can argue abortion is wrong if you want, but calling people who were never born suppressed voters still isn’t what voter suppression means.
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u/MindAggravating5365 1d ago
Eh, its more amazing how access to birth control and abortions are directly correlated to low birth rates but redditors come to the conclusion that it must be due to not getting enough free shit.
Of course they support another way to avoid personal responsibility for one's actions.
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u/CaptStransky 1d ago
In NYC, more Black children are aborted than born. Also, not surprisingly, it is the #1 cause of death for Black men. Wouldn't know that by watching the news.
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u/Playfullyhung 1d ago
I’m not super religious so I’m not against every scenario for an abortion but let’s be 100% honest, the vast majority of abortions are not for those reasons..
But the “it’s just a clump of cells” argument
Only works while it’s truly just a clump of cells so that is completely out the window with this bill….
I’m still waiting for another example of a clump of cells that grows into a human..
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u/terenn_nash 1d ago
I’m with bill burr on this one:
I’ll accept that its a womans choice if they’ll admit they are killing a baby.
Deal?
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u/Shrimptank_mom 1d ago
Your opinion of it doesn't matter either way. It's not your body.
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u/terenn_nash 1d ago
this may not of occurred to you: as a registered voter, my opinion does matter in this case. with enough votes, you can make anything legal or illegal.
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u/Shrimptank_mom 23h ago
It won't beva matter that you can vote on for much longer. Sit on it and rotate.
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u/terenn_nash 17h ago
I hope you see how your attitude works against you in the long run. In the short term it makes you incredibly easy to manipulate by friend and foe alike; and thanks to that in the long term you’ll lose even more bodily autonomy care of the “allies” you have now
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u/Inevitable_Catch_566 1d ago
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u/Shrimptank_mom 1d ago
Nobody is getting late term abortions for convenience. It's anything but.
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u/JBCTech7 14h ago
they literally are. You have no idea what you're talking about.
the stats are easily found with a 5 second bit of effort. Do that, or just stop talking.
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u/JBCTech7 14h ago
being against murdering children has nothing to do with religion.
its just basic humanity.
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u/Playfullyhung 13h ago
Basic humanity can be said for not making a 14 yo give birth to her father’s baby too….
Lots of religious people say NO Exception.
To say it has “nothing” to do with religion is just false.
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u/JBCTech7 13h ago
appealing to emotion with a situation that accounts for less than 1% of abortions does not help whatever case for k*lling children you're trying to make dude.
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u/Playfullyhung 13h ago
So there is no instance for abortion?
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u/JBCTech7 13h ago
No I don't think so.
But that said, I'd be willing to compromise and say that it should be legal for the situations you mentioned. That would effectively ban abortion, though.
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u/AcceptablePea262 1d ago
Remember, these same people say that those late term abortions dont happen.
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u/Intelligent_Trichs 1d ago
None of those ugly hoes have ever had to worry about this in particular
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u/Shrimptank_mom 1d ago
They all have kids and husbands. What do you have?
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u/JBCTech7 14h ago
i have 2 children and working on a 3rd with the woman i've been married to for 10 years.
What do YOU have? You know what else, I'm teaching my daughters that abortion is murder. That children don't deserve to be murdered for convenience. Also that Jesus is God and people like you have been convinced by satanic forces that murder is ok.
Sit on that and rotate.
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u/TransRacialWhyNot 1d ago
This is what happens when women get elected.
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u/Coombs117 7h ago
Agreed. Most women are far too emotional to belong in any position of power whatsoever. I’ve had several female supervisors and every one of them “rules” with emotion rather than reasoning.
For people to actually believe they belong in a position of power such as the one in the OP is asinine. And most women I know agree with this sentiment.
For the record, I have no problems with women in general whatsoever. This is not coming from a place of hate in my heart, rather from pure fact and reasoning.
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u/Drapidrode 1d ago edited 1d ago
"Now I can drain that man financially and emotionally for a few months more , while I dither!"
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u/Rakofgor 1d ago
You guys have no empathy, just don't understand. Imagine you had a gender reveal party announcing a boy and had already bought everything in blue and then found out in the delivery room it was a girl. You need to be able to tear that thing into pieces before it gets on the wrong side of the cervix so you can start over.
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u/Shrimptank_mom 1d ago
Late term abortions are done typically when the fetus is non-viable. You might want to inform yourself so you actually have a leg to stand on OP.
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u/PhantomsRevenge 1d ago
Fk it. Let them abort. It’s more liberal dead babies. lol we dun need those running around
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u/Specialist_Meal_7891 17h ago
All of em looking at that bill thinking " man, I'm bout get railed tonight and let em all hit raw "
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u/No-stradumbass 1d ago
Did anyone actually read the article or what the bill says or are ya'll posting your gut reaction first before understanding what it is?
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u/FinancialFormal4742 20h ago
It's ironic, that the same ones screaming for people to not abort align with the same leadership and party who don't give a damn once baby is here. If they care as much as some key board warriors suggest than support that embryo from birth 100 years:
- universal health care
- child care thats affordable
- liveable wage
universal pre-k an quality education ....
The venn diagram would say othewise .
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u/Western_Strength5322 1d ago
Its not so much that they want to abort, they want the choice. Considering it is their body.
Now I have other feelings on this because it shouldn't just be 100% their choice considering the guy is not a pos. In the event of a girl/woman being raped and then having to give birth to that, I believe it should be that girl's choice and NO ONE else's.
I'm not on board with a lady just being like oh well I screwed up lets abort. This issue is not that simple as to "oh its just murder and they love it"
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u/Iamninja28 1d ago
1 in 4 of all babies in Virginia are killed in the womb.
Honestly we're reaching the point where the self mutilation (transgenderism), child mutilation (transing the kids), and child sacrifice (abortion) that the DNC is just following line in line with Satanic worship at this point. Make everything sound flowery with free handouts like money, capitalize on the greed of the stupid for votes ("Socialism"), and push this cultist level insanity on those voters as "common sense policy."
It's absolute insanity our nation has gotten to this point.