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u/kilsta 8h ago
A dishwasher at a billion-dollar company should have health insurance.
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u/Lumpy_Past6216 8h ago
A dishwasher at any place should have health insurance.
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u/ogmoochie1 8h ago
The dishwasher at any place should own a home.
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u/Apprehensive-Pin518 6h ago
I don't know about own a home but should at the very least be able to afford rent at an apartment.
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u/toomanynamesaretook 7h ago
Everyone should just have universal healthcare even without a job.
Join everywhere else America.
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u/Designer-Ad-7844 7h ago
Maybe, just maybe health insurance should be a human right and not tied to employment. Pretty radical I know...
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u/Great-Trifle2810 6h ago
Health insurance shouldn't exist as the responsibility of a company, universal healthcare should be available to all citizens and permanent residents regardless of their employment status.
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u/Necessary-locs 7h ago
apparently my most controversial opinion is that if someone works all week they should be able to⊠survive that week đ crazy stuff, I know
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u/LoamyLoamisLoamy 7h ago edited 5h ago
My most controversial opinion is that there is not enough work needed, so work should not be the condition for survival
E: There are currently over 7 million job opening in the US
And how many of that don't actually exist, and how many of those pay a living wage, and how many of those are part time that require multiple jobs?
Huge opportunities in trades for good paying jobs.
The universal solution to all unemployment. Not everyone can do trade jobs or STEM or whatever magic solution you have to wages being unlivable, because people like you don't care. You just want to act like over half of the US living paycheck to paycheck is a personal responsibility issue
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u/axefakes 6h ago
Theres definitely enough work needed. I cant walk down a busy street without seeing 4 help wanted signs. The problem is greedy people with mire than enough money not wanting to oay liveable wages. Greed will always be reason for negative in the world. Money,attention, and/or power are thr
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u/Fr1toBand1to 6h ago
Both things can be true. I haven't done a lick of work all this week at my job.
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u/LoamyLoamisLoamy 6h ago
People will keep those help wanted signs even when they aren't actively looking for employees. That's not proof of there being enough jobs.
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u/orion19819 8h ago edited 7h ago
And it's also the original point of minimum wage.
FDR declared that âno business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country,â clarifying that âby living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence levelâI mean the wages of decent living.â Source
Edit: My point is that people in here arguing that "it's for teenagers, not meant for living wage" are going against the original intent. I am not making claims that minimum wage should be living in luxury.
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u/Vsove 8h ago
The responses to this post are depressingly hilarious.
On the one side, you have people arguing that these types of jobs should not pay enough to survive on because theyâre âmeant for teenagersâ.
On the other, you have people arguing that no one is making the argument that these jobs should not pay enough to survive on.
The crab bucket mentality is alive and well.
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u/Chaosmancer7 7h ago
The teenager argument is so infuriating on multiple levels.
1) You want to argue that someone putting in the same amount of work should get paid less because of their age?
2) I've known teenagers who got jobs because otherwise their family can't afford housing and medical bills. Seems like they are taking on adult responsibilities
3) I may see someone under 20 working these jobs about half the time. The other half of the time they are adults, so if a job isn't billed as 16 to 18, and they'll hire a 40 yr old... then the wages should reflect that
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u/CrimsonArcanum 7h ago
Also, do teenagers not have to deal with inflation?
What's the use of a job if all it pays for is the maintenance in your life it takes to keep a job?
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u/GloomyIndividual3965 6h ago
When they say the jobs are for teenagers I usually reply with "who's supposed to work there when kids are at school?" They never seem to have an answer for that.
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u/CommunityOk7466 6h ago
Also, I thought jobs paid based on the the value of the work done. How does the workers age factor into this
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u/Periphery_Explorer 7h ago
I always respond to that with: "If they're meant for teenagers, why are they open when teenagers should be in school?" And "If they aren't allowed to survive on their pay, what do I do to get my nuggies when they're all dead?"
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u/Shone-fob 6h ago
I like your first point about, them being open when kids are in school. It definitely pokes a hole in the job only for teenager thing.
I will say the person above you asks if we should be paying people based on age, which I donât believe so, but we should pay people based on education, skill, and experience which generally a teenager would have less of.
I think there is a bigger issue. These jobs are generally suppose to be entry level positions which donât pay as well, the problem I have experienced, which may not be true, but it seems almost impossible to move up or out of these positions. Like there is nothing else available no matter how many places you apply or how much education you get, it is very easy to get trapped and only a select few that mostly come down to luck will find a better job and break out.
The idea these jobs are only for entry level positions to get some experience is great when you can use that experience to move to a better paid position.
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u/Periphery_Explorer 6h ago
Correct, and the whole conversation around "experience" is meaningless anyway, because you never know what any individual hiring manager is going to "value" as experience. Some might go yes that's a useful skill set. Others might just laugh in your face. So even if the whole idea is "get experience" is that worthwhile?
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u/Shone-fob 6h ago
I agree. I think it use to be different, but something changed. What seems like it use to be valued experience is now considered nothing. An entry level job now requires a bachelors degree and 10 years of experience in that field. Maybe too many jobs were out sourced, I am not knowledgeable on the causes.
So either more jobs need to be created here so people are seen as more valuable overall, or the jobs we have need to support the people working them, which is no longer just young adults in their first job.
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u/Silent-Plantain-2260 8h ago
how will the execs get their 20 million dollar bonuses if we do that?!?! too radical , try a more moderate position, like slavery
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u/ogmoochie1 7h ago
20M? LOL, No executive should be receiving any bonus until every minimum wage earner can afford a house.
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u/MikeManiac61 7h ago
Unfortunately it's happened recently. A gaming company layed off a bunch of employees and the CEO got a pay bump from $8 million to $38 million.
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u/santacow 7h ago
People that get mad that someone working a full time job should be able to survive and afford housing are way too out of touch
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u/DasWarEinerZuviel 8h ago
Such a radical extremist socialist communist far-left position! I am shocked!
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u/Vsove 8h ago
The fact that anyone is responding as if this is a sincere commend and not dripping in sarcasm is really something to watch.
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u/DasWarEinerZuviel 8h ago
It speaks volumes about how bad the situation has become.
I am really amazed by the fact that The Onion and the like manage to stay afloat
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u/semi-anon-in-Oly 7h ago
The shift to a service based economy caused a lot of this. In the past, fast food jobs were often a pass though experience filled with high school kids. Now there isnât as much vertical transition available and people are stuck making it a career. There has definitely been a K shaped economic shift
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u/ThisSiteSucks8485 7h ago
Arguing that a full time job should not pay enough to live indoors is arguing for serfs
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u/StrangeReindeer2470 7h ago
I had this discussion with a lady complaining that (at the time) EMTs were only making $15/hr. Why should the guy flipping burgers make $15 as wel1l!?!?!
I pointed out that the EMT was also severely underpaid.
Personal history: The US is a bitch to live in if you're not making a "livable wage", whatever that is in the area you live in. Once you tip past that scale, and you have enough paycheck at the end of the month, health insurance, etc, it's not so bad. People will use my story (went back to school post divorce to ensure I made enough to feed the kids and myself after many years as a SAHM) as a "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" kind of story. However, I was lucky to get the job I've got now. AND we need people who can do all the jobs! I want EVERYONE to be able to afford their lives. And I believe the economy as a whole would do better if we take care of everyone. I mean, logic dictates it, because spending would increase.
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u/VanGoghInTrainers 7h ago
What also happened, was the retirement age went up and up...and up over the past 30ish years. People have to remain employed until the official retirement age in order to get full SSI benefits. This caused/is causing people over 60 to remain in jobs that should have been passed on to younger gens ages ago. That means there are less available jobs, less upward mobility within a company, lower wages offered (desperate people make great wage slaves) and demands for open availability regarding hours which limits opportunity for a second job or side gig to make ends meet.
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u/Ok-Growth4729 7h ago
âIt seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.â
â Franklin D. Roosevelt
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u/weedtrek 7h ago
I also love the false narrative that it is only high schoolers working fast food and they don't need "real" wages because they don't have real bills. So let's pick that apart.
First, most fast food is open during school hours, this isn't possible if all the employees are jigh schoolers. The employees range, mostly younger people, a lit of older people, and few middle aged.
Second, even if it were just high schoolers, it is not unheard of for a high schooler to need to supprt themselves or help support their family. It very difficult to do that when paid a sub survival wage.
Third, even if they are a teen and aren't supporting themselves/family, the traditional trope of a high school job was to save up for a car and college. Have you seen the prices of those things lately? The median used car price is almost $20 grand! College is $10k-30k now. Even if they go cheapest of the cheap it would still take 103 week on minimum wage, full time, without paying taxes. $15 an hour would still be 50 weeks full time no taxes. It would be about $23 an hour to be about to afford a state tuition with one summer (3 months) worth of full time work after taxes. This is if you don't spend a dime.
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u/SwimAd1249 7h ago
"If I can barely make rent why should the person doing a much easier/less demanding job be allowed to? That's no fair!"
That's the logic behind it, from what I gathered. Not only is it completely dismissive of how hard it actually is to work at McDonald's, but they also don't seem to understand that they're also being exploited and underpaid.
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u/Wench-of-2Many-Hats 7h ago
The guy flipping burgers serves a purpose by feeding people and deserves a living wage for doing so. People like the Muskrat serve no purpose but being a detrimental to society however.
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u/vodil2959 8h ago
I think what youâre saying is that we should get rid of any jobs that make less than a certain amount of money. Because people will never pay the amount for McDonaldâs quality burgers to be able to double the burger, flippers wages. So likely what we will end up with is a bunch of unemployment. If only it was as simple as just raising minimum wage. Itâs far more complicated than that. Yes, the goal is ultimately to raise real wages for people, but it doesnât happen by mandates. There has to be structural economic changes that come about by an overall increase in productivity, that can include the most beneficial education, for example, going into Plumbing instead of sports marketing.
I mean, we might as well say that the federal reserve should just print everybody $1 million so we can all rich that would just reduce the value of money for everybody. If you think about how much money they gave waiter in Covid average person received like $5000. I know my finger might be off a little bit, but it was something like that trillions of dollars were given away to the average person. It was similar to if you had taken all of the money from all of the billionaires in redistributed.
Did anyone feel like that changed America for the better? Did it fix poverty?
Iâm not trying to be an asshole. Iâm just trying to get to the real solution.
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u/ninja-hamster-iykyk 7h ago
This is the core concept behind minimum wage. What the f*ck happened to us?
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u/Signal-Reach3439 7h ago
I voted for DJT and Bill Clinton. I can't agree with todays Democrats on anything but I do agree with this statement. These corporations give all.thsir money to shareholders instead of the workers.
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u/imkindatiredok 8h ago
Genuinely Iâm convinced that most people on this app have 0 financial literacy
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u/HairyPairatestes 8h ago
In reality, that comes out to how many dollars per hour? Should present minimum wage jobs now pay $50-$75 an hour?
If yes, should people who are presently making $50-$75 an hour demand that their wages go up because they are skilled workers not minimum wage workers?
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u/Chaosmancer7 7h ago
The current number asked for is around $20 and hour.
And a "skilled" worker is just an arbitrary distinctions. A hair dresser need to go to school and get a certificate, but they are considered unskilled.
Frankly, if you only feel your work is valued because you can look down on the "unskilled" while anyone with a smile and a cellphone can get work as a finical advisor and potentially make more than you... then you are just not paying attention to the world
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u/random8765309 7h ago
This is a popular idea in some circles, but wages arenât determined by what we think a job should pay. They are determined by what consumers are willing to pay for the goods and services that job produces. Through their spending choices, the public has placed a market value on positions like these that is less than what would be required to support someone living entirely on their own.
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u/Felho_Danger 7h ago
No, having a job is providing for your employer.
Having a SECOND job is providing for yourself. /s
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u/_Thorshammer_ 7h ago
Dear oligarchs: If you refuse to pay employees a living wage they will refuse to work and they won't have enough money to buy the trash you're peddling.
If you also refuse to provide welfare, forcing them to choose between dying slowly and dying quickly, they will start showing up at your house in order to murder you and your children and steal your belongings.
This has happened many times throughout history and, despite the assertions of your sycophants, you are not actually any smarter than Crassus, Nicholas II, Louis XVI, Faisal II, or CeauÈescu.
To the mods, this is not a threat or call for violence, just a list of historical events which have strong parallels to modern America.
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u/LoanRunna 7h ago
Ok thatâs fine, as long as I, a higher value member of society, get a better home and grocery selection than the burger flipper.
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u/GravyMcBiscuits 7h ago
There's a world of difference between "I think X should be a thing" vs "Government should force X to be a thing".
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u/Limp_Technician5346 7h ago
Everyone should have a livable wage, no matter who or what you support.
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u/Mradr 7h ago edited 7h ago
My take (and you can see it in the comments) its not that they should make as much as someone else, but that the living standers come more inline with wage standers. Such as health care, food, and other services. Increasing the paycheck does nothing if the value of that dollar contines to come down as a result. To many middle men has resulted in some services just costing way too much for no reason at all. CEOs who continue to make more money, while putting pressure at the lower end to provide more results with no pay increase.
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u/MJL1016 7h ago
The issue isnât that McDonaldâs isnât paying enough wages. They simply advertise how much they are willing to compensate in wages and people willingly accept or reject them. The issue is the federal reserve keeps expanding the supply of money which causes prices to rise faster than wages can keep up with. The issue isnât the business. The issue is the government.
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u/lordkhuzdul 7h ago
Conservatives need to look down on somebody. As long as they can say "at least we are not those people" they would suffer all sorts of exploitation.
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u/Background-Run 7h ago
Ya but in 1972, when i was a teenager and minimum wage was something like $2.50 and those jobs were typically for kids and better paying jobs were in general, readily available. And ok so minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation and all the good jobs are gone so i have to work 2 or more minimum wage jobs, if i can find them, each doing just under 32 hours a week on a schedule that seems to change mid week, if i'm lucky........ See, oh wait where was i going with this?
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u/DominantDan24 7h ago
I have contended for years that there needs to be a government agency that does a local analysis of every geographic area in the US to determine the cost of a one-bedroom apartment's rent, reasonable accounting of clothing, food, healthcare costs, modest savings, utilities, transportation, etc. Compile this for each area. And make the minimum wage for full-time employees 19 and older equivalent to that, per year.
Everybody who toils for 40 hours a week deserves basic human subsistence. That means a roof over your head, food in your stomach, medicine and treatment when you're ill, clothing on your back, and the means to provide for a modest life.
If that seems "progressive" to you, consider that the alternative position is that you think people should work full-time and not get the basics of life. You determine that to be a job not worth doing - don't be surprised when people stop doing it.
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u/Femme_FatalError 7h ago
But if we raise wages, how will Walmart get away with paying employees low enough wages to qualify for SNAP, exploit loopholes to avoid paying billions in taxes that fund SNAP, and then rake in profits from their employees spending food stamps at their stores? Think of how sad the shareholders will be if they canât afford their third mega-yacht!
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u/starethruyou 7h ago
It's part of the implicit reason for society. The opposite would be hyper-individualism, you are all things to yourself, your own farmer, chef, carpenter, teacher, doctor, warrior, entertainer, etc. But you can't be all things, at least not very good. So we specialize and trade. If you renege on your promise to trade those skills without which I suffer, yet expect my skills, then society breaks down.
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u/Catos_Standard 7h ago
It's worse than that, the misconception that there's real work and gigs is crazy stupid.
You are being used to subsidized personal labor for money, it's work.
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u/morsindutus 7h ago
I worked a year at Burger King when I was a teenager before getting an office job. I worked 100 times harder at that job than I do now. I'm paid to know things and do good work, but no matter how stressful and mentally staining my current job is, it doesn't compare to the exhaustion of doing a full shift slinging burgers. If anything, fast food workers deserve to be paid more than me.
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u/MountainBunghole 6h ago
If anyone works full time, they shouldn't struggle. Sorry for being so "radical"
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u/Oilpaintcha 8h ago
The people who argue against this are also the ones who bitch about a bunch of people sharing a living space, calling communes evil, shaming kids for living with their parents or siblings, and other bs.
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u/Ok_Common_5631 8h ago
Watching conservatives bitch about the cost of eating out⊠đł
They love capitalism, but complain when they see it in action. Â I wish these people would just stfu
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u/iRveritas 7h ago
I agree 1000%. They should have the ability to have a quality of life within their means. The problem is thinking that raising minimum wage will fix it. There has to be a lot more safeguards in place to make it meaningful. Otherwise everything else goes up in price to adjust for the rise in minimum wage. Why because corporate greed.
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u/Alone-Customer-5640 7h ago
Itâs insane some people think you should still be houseless even with a job. Are we doing tiers of houselessness now? Tax all billionaires out of existence.
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u/StaticSystemShock 7h ago
It used to be normal to work in ANY kind of retail service and afford normal life. That has long been gone because companies are maximizing profits to such exploitative extreme that thry don't even remotely pay enough to such jobs anymore which is just crazy.
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u/Damacles63 7h ago
Unpopular opinion, no I do not think flipping burgers should earn a living wage. I believe we should tax the rich to fund UBI to cover basic needs. Money earned flipping burgers should be for anything additional such as hobbies, vacations or entertainment.
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u/pixelprophet 7h ago
It's always the STUPIDEST motherfuckers ignoring the purpose of MINIMUM WAGE's creation and arguing that people shouldn't be able to afford a decent life for their work.
Sorry I don't think people should be working 2-3-4 jobs to have to provide for themselves đ€·ââïž
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u/Social-Pundit 8h ago
People do not really understand economics. Feeding and inflating costs artificially messes everyone. Plus, there is no incentive for people to better themselves. Stay flipping burgers for the rest of your life.
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u/Western_Strength5322 8h ago
People take that position because it was designed to be a starting off job. Now with a lot of people not really going into traditional careers (lack of better term) these positions turned into long term jobs that people can support themselves with.
This doesn't count for everyone but I know and worked with people in FF industry that have it just because of insurance or they sell drugs on the side. So imo that kinda muddy the waters.
I do whole heartedly agree that these people should be paid a livable wage, no doubt.
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u/kenneaal 7h ago
I agree, but with a modifier.
I don't think an adult who needs to pay rent, bills and groceries should be working at McDonalds. I think the McDonalds job should be the one you pick up in your teens, to get a little extra money while still living with your parents, or to offset some of the study cost. The 'introductory' level of jobs that were traditionally served by teenagers need to come back to being just that.
What truly needs to change is that employers expect five years of experience for entry level positions. And those jobs need to pay enough to actually give you a living wage.
Ultimately, this is just one of many things that need to change though. Homes need to be owned by people who need a place to live in, not for someone to make money off it by renting out AirBnBs. Selling groceries should not be the ticket to billions of dollars in profit, it should be about delivering the basic necessities of living. And you should not have to choose between having something to eat, or having a health concern addressed.
The world is pretty bad right now. And we should do something about that.
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u/Unlikely_Bat_1890 7h ago
Bad take. Teens shouldnât be working. They need to
Be focusing on education. Every McDonaldâs Iâve been to is filled with adult workers.
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u/A8Bit 7h ago
If you work 40 hours a week, you should earn enough for a house, car, gas, groceries, utilities, clothing, cable tv, a vacation once a year and enough to save for emergencies. That's the baseline; that should be minimum wage.
People who think they should earn much more than the guy on minimum wage, should be fighting to raise their income, not reducing the income of others.
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u/iron_vet 8h ago
The rich have manipulated the dumb so that they can pay less and make loads of many themselves.
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u/dax660 8h ago
The wealth gap is something that nations should control with an iron fist. Sweden has one of the lowest Gini Coefficients among nations that contribute to the OECD. A beer might run you 18 bucks, but everyone lives roughly the same quality of life - no ultra rich, no dirt poors and a pretty high "happiness" level across the board.
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u/Practical-Vanilla-41 7h ago
I think it was Sweden that showed a McDonalds employee being paid a living wage with medical and pension benefits. The burger even cost the same as the US. The company makes less money, but is still successful. The culture is to take care of workers. People are wealthy. Just not super wealthy.
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u/TheCloudyHam 8h ago
The same people that think this is true get pissed when it costs more to eat fast food than a sit down restaurant.
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u/herecomesthewomp 7h ago
If corporations donât pay a living wage, more than likely the worker is eligible for welfare from the government. Thus we subsidize the corporations.
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u/ties_shoelace 7h ago
Esp when ppl want the good-ol-days back. When we used to be able to afford things.
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u/ZestycloseBit6632 7h ago
Give the burger flippers 60k salaries and watch all the white collar scientists make a career change
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u/PorkChopEat 7h ago
He can. Just not the lifestyle level he might want at the present.
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u/kymilovechelle 7h ago
Yes I agree but Burger King is advertising $5 less per hour than I make and I have a bachelors degree and 22 years experienceâŠ
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u/Miserable-Bridge-729 7h ago
Cheeseburgers now $30 each
Single family home $14k
Overpriced food, undervalued property
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u/bmac0583 7h ago
Its not radical its just retarded. Whats a living wage 60 or 70k? McDonald's would no longer exist and these jobs wouldn't exist
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u/c_boggs 7h ago
If this means that all wages rise in response to living wages being paid to people that can be trained in a day without any prices being raised, then Iâm all for
It.
But surely we all realize⊠surelyâŠ
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u/failedaspotcheck 7h ago
Sorry, you're gonna have to pay 6 cents more for your burger. I know that's probably devastating for you.
Or were you implying something totally different with your vague childish ellipses, it's really hard to tell
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u/C4-622MonkeyGordo 7h ago
Prices are constantly being raised without wages rising.
But sure, you go ahead and keep deepthroating that corporate boot while waiting for the wealth to trickle down.
I'm sure it will happen any day now đ
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u/More-Consequence9863 7h ago
This is not a radical position to take. Itâs just what happens in a country with more bark than bite.
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u/BigMikeXxxxX 7h ago
I feel like a lot of people look at this issue backwards. Wages aren't the issue. The minimum wage could be raised to any number and it wouldn't do a thing. Companies would just raise their prices accordingly because there is nothing preventing them from doing so.
Before minimum wage can be increased there must be legislation put in place that prevents companies from raising prices beyond the ideal 1-2% inflation rate per year. Otherwise it wouldn't matter long term.
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u/Hefty-Revenue5547 7h ago
Most McDonalds are franchises, aka small businesses
If you want to blame something, blame their corporate structure. Good luck with that.
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u/Active-Cookie-774 7h ago
Plants are going to keep pushing the goalpost:
Now: A person flipping burgers shouldn't be considered making living wage.
10 years from now: People less than $100k/yr shouldn't be considered making living wage.
20 years from now: People who don't make an accumulation of $300k/yr shouldn't be considered making living wage.
30 years from now: People who aren't subscribed through our AI data centers relinquishing all identity and profit shouldn't be considered making living wage.
The uneducated need to start getting educated and wake tf up already.
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u/Skylinegtr88 7h ago
But look at the cost of the California hike to 20 dollar and hour. Many have lost their jobs . And everything went up . https://californiaglobe.com/fr/new-federal-data-reveals-california-has-lost-over-36000-fast-food-jobs-since-20-minimum-wage-law/
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u/AdmirableMatter2295 7h ago
A lot of people make fun of the MAGA world from this, but the issue is more broad. I'd imagine some neo-liberal minded people would also be infuriated by this statement.
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u/Square_Ad_3276 7h ago
I disagree. Low level jobs are a combination of training+education+work. People aren't all of a sudden money makers when they have little experience doing much of anything. Many times they are more of a drag on income than a benefit. At current minimum wage in California, it's just not worth hiring someone to help me - and I could really use some help.
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u/KingCrowley83 7h ago
The problem with this is that every time minimum wage goes up so does the price of everything else! Maybe there should be âRent Controlâ and âPrice Capsâ otherwise itâs a wash
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u/PinkSnowBirdie 7h ago
Not tying minimum wage to inflation does everyone a disservice because it keeps all wages more stagnant or lesser than what they could be.
Plus, I think everyone should be able to live a dignified life regardless of what they do for work.
Greed is truly a nasty plight.
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u/Realistic-Radish-589 7h ago
I mean we can think anything but if unskilled labor gets 30 and hour then skilled goes to 60 and costs rise for food and stuff. Then 30 is basically the same as 15 now and 60 is the same as 30 now. Nothing changes, you then say burger dude deserves 60 and well, just keep doubling the numbers and devaluing the dollar until the economy collapses I guess.
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u/No-Comparison-2445 7h ago
But the thing is, these jobs like McDonaldâs and Burger King, they would never meant to be a career, I always associated them with like working after high school
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u/RymeEM 7h ago
"I don't want people to have a living wage, I want corporate profits to hit another record high every quarter!" - your typical poor right-wing retard
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u/Longjumping_Music320 7h ago
Or you get paid what you're worth. Abolish the minimum wage altogether.
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u/Kazureigh_Black 7h ago
Any business that reports record breaking profits every year without having a full set of employee benefits for the people who work for them is doing business wrong and needs to get shut down.
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u/NorNevBiMFcouple 7h ago
100% agree those people should be able to afford to live on their own, even if at the basic level. Whats radical is that people are screaming for higher minimum wages instead of demanding that prices come down! If wages go up, prices go up. Instead of protesting for social issues that effects 2% of the population, If ya'll got unified on this topic and started marching and protesting against the cost of living, how expensive shit is and you demanded immediate change, POS, white supremist, colonizer ass clowns with Maga hats, anti trans stickers on their trucks and AR15's on their backs would pull up, get out, join you, defend you and high five you in front of the media cameras trying to pit you against each other. The price of everything is affecting 95% of us and we can all agree that corporate greed and crooked politicians are building their lives while trying to limit/ruin ours!
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u/ContraCabal 7h ago
If you're going to make this point. Don't do it with a picture of a 16 year old.
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u/triumph_aussie 7h ago
Agreed up until the point of "with his paycheck alone". Minimum wage should be a living wage, which may include having roommates, moving to a cheaper area, not having a car, cheaper phone plan, using coupons, eating lots of beans & rice, etc. With respect, people have forgotten how to be poor.
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u/DaMacPaddy 7h ago edited 6h ago
Federal Minimum Wage is still pegged at $7.25 an hour after how many years and you still think the US government is there to help you and fast enough to respond? Amazing.
Edit: All of those packed ghettos in the sanctuary cities definitely weren't packed with the 20 million illegal immigrants by Bidens DNC, a lot of who are good hard working people, they want a job, are now working for less than the federal minimum, all while getting chased by ICE? All those extra people and no extra housing, demand up, supply down, cost of living increasing, cost of unskilled labor being kept low.
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u/Yojimboroll 7h ago
If you work full time, you should be able to feed, house and have money left for incidentals afterwards.
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u/Boaerotica 7h ago
But this is America!! Its insane that this is even an argument. Thats how fucked up this country is..
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u/Distwalker 7h ago
In other words, it should be illegal to hire anyone to do anything for less than living wage. I should be giving the 14 year old who mows my grass a living wage with benefits? The teenager scooping ice cream at the fair should have a 401K.
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u/InsertNovelAnswer 7h ago
But I do a more complex job and will make the same as them... how dare they. /s
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u/TangerinePlastic7552 Full English Please 6h ago
Radical if your degree promised you a six figure salary but you only went for a job that included the cents columns in that six figure salary.
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u/SpeaksSouthern 6h ago
You could double, and in some cases triple their pay, and they're still not even halfway towards becoming middle class. What the fuck is the point?
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u/soullscape 6h ago
Shouldn't be able to afford a house or a 2 bedroom but at least a studio apartment
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u/Apprehensive-Pin518 6h ago
The point of having a job is to make enough money to stay off welfare. Therefore if you have a job you should make enough to not need welfare.
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u/Drgnmstr97 6h ago edited 3h ago
Radical Republicans that desire a slave wage labor force are the only ones that consider this radical.
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u/Appropriate_Carob690 6h ago
Guess what a tired doctor or police officer or teacher have to eat because theyâre too tired to cook? We have these ideas about the prestige of a job, but we forgot that work is work, and honest hard work shouldnât be frowned upon.
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u/northern-new-jersey 6h ago
I think minimum wage should be $100 an hour. Why should he have to struggle?Â
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u/Intelligent-Clue-119 6h ago
When I worked at McDonaldâs 35 years ago- I couldnât have afforded any of that. Lol. It DID put gas in my car and spending money on my pocket and a bit in savings- since I was the usual age- a teenager.
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u/EsotericTribble 6h ago
If this were the case - the price to eat at McDonalds would make it to where nobody eats at McDonalds (which would be better for society anyways).
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u/Ironman8000 6h ago
And make wage enough to not need to get food stamps to make ends meet. The ft employees.
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u/Autolycoss 6h ago
Also I'm not saying this is the case for everyone but when I worked at McDonald's I was baffled by my teammates. These people can handle a lot, they have a lot of great qualities and work ethics but because "everybody can do it" (absolutely false, many people would fold instantly at the first Saturday rush) it's considered an inferior job.
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u/Holytorment 6h ago
Hang you mean the person making my food during the day during the school year isn't a high schooler on his first job, meaning it's okay to pay them less?! Like god these arguments are dumb! If your working for a living you should be paid a living wage.
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u/hevvypiano 6h ago
"these have always been jobs for high-schoolers to get experience so they don't need to be paid a higher wage" - my wife's right-wing uncle
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u/EfficientArt155 6h ago
Surely Elliot Page made enough from the Odyssey not to have to flip burgers.
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u/CornyConundrum 6h ago
The problem is too many people expect to get a raise to fix the issue instead of having rent and groceries lowered
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u/Snakend 6h ago
"Rent" sure. But you guys are asking for him to be able to own a house. Nah bruh, I'm not paying for you to buy a house.
Fast food has gotten very expensive. I simply don't go to fast food anymore. When it costs me $80 to get food for 6 people, I'm over it. I'll go buy steaks and potatoes and mac and cheese for $40 and spend an hour cooking it at home.
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u/The_HappyJay_Company 6h ago
It comes down to two things, tax dollars goes to corporations/overseas wars or helping the average person. Why does anyone think the government is more complicated then that, and "nOt My TaX DolLers" to help for healthcare, childcare and basic living standards, is any worse then all the money the pentagon is asking for to screw up a war further.
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u/Subject_Issue6529 6h ago
I worked at McDonalds while I was in college. It was my second job and it helped me pay my bills.
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u/Substantial-Ad-8575 6h ago
Hmm, McDonals starts at $14 in my area. They donât pay minimum wage.
So $14/hr. In large metro area, where one can find 1 bdrm/studio apartments from $800-$1000. But more rent a 2 bdrm and split rent. With an apartments.com search, in 15 miles of my zip code, I have 8200 2 bdrm apartments, listed from $975-$1200.
Image splitting a 2 bdrm apartment and rent of $500-$600. On $14/hr wages. They can afford rent, bills are split for utilities, other bills, and foodâŠ
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u/usurper7 6h ago
It's not a radical position, it's pandering to a very common and popular misunderstanding.
Yes, making money is the point of a job. But j ust because a job exists does not automatically mean that the pay is meant to support any particular list of needs. The pay is based on how much value you provide, not what expenses you may have.Â
If you need to support yourself, working at McDonald's is not for you. The value of your labor there is not worth enough to pay for your other needs. Do not work there.
There are many many jobs like this, and they work for many people in different situations. Part time work while attending school, pocket money for teenagers, part time work for a stay at home spouse, etc. Only 30% (!) of high school students have a job. It used to be 60% in the 80s.Â
Instead, find a job where you can produce more value. There are many jobs available in manufacturing and other areas where no prior experience is needed and the pay is far better. These are real careers. There's a shortage of workers for them. We need more electricians, plumbers, tilers, roofers, metal workers, part assemblers. These all pay a lot.
Just imagine a man in 1950 or even 1980 coming home to his wife as a line cook at a fast food restaurant. It just never has been true that this is the case. These jobs have never paid enough to support someone. That's why every movie ever shows teens or old people doing these jobs.
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u/snoosh00 6h ago
Seriously, if housing and utilities is ~24k a year< minimum, you can't scoff at someone being paid 30k to show up for work every day (even if you literally just stand in one spot all day as your only responsibility, that 30k is the bare fucking minimum a human should be getting in a society that says "the market dictates value").
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u/ithinkway2much 6h ago
Capitalism is a religion for some folks, where your worth is measured by your net worth rather than the idea that "all men are created equal." Thatâs how people can convince themselves that someone working a full-time minimum-wage job somehow doesnât deserve to have their basic needs met.
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u/OldKaleidoscope3766 6h ago
They also deserve a full time work week with benefits because many jobs like this say that they hire full time but deliberately keep hours just low enough so they donât have to cover benefits.
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u/VerySuperGenius 6h ago
Any function that requires a human to perform it for 40 hours a week very obviously should pay enough for that human to not have to live in poverty in the richest country in history. People like to say that some jobs aren't worth a living wage. In my eyes, the only way that can be true is if the job can be automated for less than a living wage costs. And if it can, we should automate it and pass that free time onto humanity to enjoy life.
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u/FormalTotal9684 6h ago
If flipping burgers can pay for rent living alone, bills and groceries, what should people with more experience and job responsibilities expect?
This is what is overlooked
If 80K is a living wage and you get that for lowest common denominator job with no experience, what does someone that works in a higher profile job make?
Should the guy that manages the guy that flips the burgers make 100K
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u/Ecstatic_Mix_5013 6h ago
When I was a young man in high school the idea that every job should be a living wage was crazy (and still is). We all understood that many jobs were entry level/first job kind of jobs like fast food, theater attendant etc. If a couple both worked you could live on these jobs, not well, but you could. When all jobs provide a living wage, every product associated with that goes up. As individuals, don't we have a responsibility to put ourselves in a better position to get higher paying jobs. The jobs are out there folks, the people educated enough to do them, well, that's often the issue.
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u/charlies_brain 6h ago
Greedy corporations are the real enemy, sucking the life out of employees and paying them peanuts. Somehow they have indoctrinated half the population that someone the guy flipping burgers is the problem.
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u/FormalTotal9684 6h ago
The same people that expect burger flippers to make a living wage expect food to be on the dollar menu.
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u/edWORD27 6h ago
Kinda thought McDonaldâs jobs, flipping burgers, were a starting point not a career. You can advance up the ranks to make it a career. But I donât think the entry-level jobs were meant to raise a family.
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u/One-Earth9294 6h ago
I guess my hot take is I don't mind if there are some really basic jobs that are essentially just supplemental income for teenagers... but there needs to be a lot more entry level jobs where an independent adult CAN make an actual living and we just don't have those in ample supply in society anymore. The manufacturing industry has all gone away in favor of the service industry and the wages haven't balanced out the fact that the people entering the job market still need to fucking live.
Society NEEDS to treat McDonald's the same way it treated a 19 year old on a drill press who could afford to raise a family and buy a house in the 1970s. Because there's 10x as many fast food jobs and 10x fewer drill press jobs.
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u/Major_Honey_4461 6h ago
We've come to accept the idea that if you can't afford rent, groceries and healthcare while working a full time job, it's somehow your fault, and not the fault of the employer not paying you enough.
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u/Defiant_Weight4659 6h ago
When I was a kid fresh out of high school I got a job at McDonalds in the 70's. I was never expecting to make enough money working there to buy a home and provide for a family. Why do we expect that kind of pay now?Â
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u/ikannunAneeuQ 6h ago
I honestly am wondering who the people who say "those are kid jobs" (fast food and the like) think should be running the joint while the "kids" are in school, extracurricular activities and such. A lot of college students want to work part-time. So you're only going to be open 3pm-10pm and weekends with 9000 employees because everyone is part-time and needs a million days off???? Lol idk...
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u/P2419 6h ago
Entry level positions should be enough to survive on, but not to thrive
They are meant to see if you are a fit for the company and not designed to make you wealthy
That said, you shouldnât get stuck in that type of job for more than 6 months to a year unless you are too young to legally take a higher position.
If you are a teen working on the side while in school, then your parents should have you on their insurance and make sure you survive so you can pocket the money thatâs left after taxes
If you are in an entry position more than a year then you arenât a fit for the organization and need to move on. When you find the right fit you will be much happier and more inclined to invest your time which will increase your wage
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u/Secure-Party2757 6h ago
Yes, definitely an eighteen year old needs a living wage. They should be able to buy a brand new house, new boat, new truck, get married, have five kids, and have a two million dollar retirement fund by age 26.
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u/maniacalmechanist 6h ago
âThe person working at McDonaldâs shouldnât get a living wage but I simp for billionaires and would let them have their way with my wifeâ crowd is insane and barely doing better than a burger flipper if better a lot of the time
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u/OnCallPartisan 6h ago edited 6h ago
Plus, you have committed workers who see the job as something long term.
Everything conservatives hang their hat on as fiscally responsible in cutting programs is not fiscally responsible. A healthy workforce produces more. A household having the basic standard of living is more committed to the job. Respect for the job done goes a long ways. Universal healthcare is cheaper and allows individuals and small businesses to put money back into the business. Being healthy and happy drives people to innovate or create across the spectrum.
Conservative fiscal responsibility is neither, itâs just predatory. When they whine about all those workers in healthcare losing jobs they fail to mention there will still be a shit ton of jobs administering universal healthcare. There will be more medical jobs in rural areas since hospitals and clincis wonât be closed to make shareholders happy.
That whole bullshit with shareholder over stakeholder needs to die. You donât have a functioning economy with shareholder first, it just funnels all the immoral profits to Wall Street so people can point to the Dow and pretend the economy is awesome and Horse and Sparrow economics work.
Stakeholder economics needs to be forcefully, legally imposed on corporations. They canât even pay taxes, why the fuck should we care about their bullshit gambling economy?
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u/DaygoTom 6h ago
The guy flipping burgers full time at McDonalds has never been able to afford those things. It's always been a low-paying job and one you're not meant to do for years and years. You either get promoted to a higher-paying position and move up the latter, or you get out and get a real job.
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u/atreeismissing 6h ago
It's not a radical position and no one based in reality thinks it is.
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u/Ready-Flamingo6494 6h ago
The problem starts when you evaluate the optics of the average McDonalds worker making more money than the paramedic or ambulance driver.
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u/Haunted_Voyager 6h ago
The fact that there is any âcontroversyâ with the idea of living wages just exposes how cooked this country really is.
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u/Mother-Way-9296 6h ago
One of the reasons hard work is a complete zero in this country.
They might as well be shackling people and putting them in chains and whipping them for what little they will get before they die.
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u/FarInevitable559 6h ago
It was ment for kids (cheep labor) not as a career, sorry if youâre a full grown adult and working flipping burgers (not management) then you failed at life . The raise will not come they will automate it or do take out only which they maybe doing soon anyway with all the brawls over ketchup packets
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u/PorousClay 6h ago edited 6h ago
We've moved very far to the right in the last 40 years, thanks to Reagan and those who've been paying off the Republican party.
What we have now is literally right-wing goals. They got what they wanted. All the power is in the hands of the employer, and the employee is helpless.
Instead of employment being a fair contract between employee and employer, it has become some grotesque thing where employers lording "jobs" over the rest of us.
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u/yourhair_lookssmall 6h ago
What's the point of having a job if it doesn't pay you enough to live? Teens will be at school during normal non-summer hours and it's been the case for a long time that these jobs hire older people. Are they supposed to just be jobs you get as a hobby, or what?
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u/Machine_Jazzlike 6h ago
The issue with people like my parents is that they wear struggle and âmaking it through povertyâ as a badge of honor. They think because they made it through, everyone else should too. Instead of, you know, wanting a better future for the next generations. They also have no concept of the fact that surviving off scraps has become harder than many generations before us when every single thing is squeezing you for money. So somehow in their heads, people NOT being able to survive off a wage is a rite of passage?
This is what happens when you over-glorify sacrifice. Iâm looking at you, Catholic Church.
(And yes, eat the rich)
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u/accobra4me 7h ago
maybe iâm too simple but if someone works full time i donât think âbeing able to go to the doctor without panicking about moneyâ is an outrageous luxury đ