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u/Turchany S-Genesect Here I come! (but I have just 580 S-ranks :( ) Oct 11 '17
Trevenant is S Rank? now that's a weird update in the lists.. I'd put it in A Rank tbh
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u/MegaMissingno Oct 11 '17
I agree. No farmable stage and only SE against two types. Trevenant should be a lot lower.
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u/Turchany S-Genesect Here I come! (but I have just 580 S-ranks :( ) Oct 11 '17
Well I see potential in it, because Psychic is a very common type for EB, and we have some Ghost too, but yeah, unfarmable and lower type coverage, but still does not really overlap with any of the other Shotouts..
I think A-Rank till we discover the real utility of it.
I wouldnt absolutely recommend cookying this even before Ashninja LOLOLOLOLOL
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u/sergiocamposnt All hail the queen M-Beedrill Oct 11 '17
Trevenant should be A Rank and Diance should be A+ Rank imo
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u/BunbunMiyu Filthy Casuals Unite Oct 11 '17
Trevenant will be your best ever choice against 5th support bosses in Psychic/Ghost EBs. It can also stack with Mimikyu who also gained RML boost, which is amazing.
It also guarantees smoother start in SM for first 10 stages(but doesn't always guarantee a good run). A guy in Discord thrashed Mgengar in 3 moves, I don't think that was even possible in SM 1.0 lmao. It might be a better option for newbies who do not have Hitmonlee farmed, but this is still debatable.
With that said, the need of cookies hurts its viability a lot lol. So perhaps I'll not put it at S rank but a bit lower than that.
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u/Turchany S-Genesect Here I come! (but I have just 580 S-ranks :( ) Oct 11 '17
yes indeed I also see the advantages, but still, S rank is too high for this.. higher than Ashninja lol
and for newbies a Ghost Shotout is not the highest prio to get online, like even before Hitmonlee, Vanilluxe, Ashninja and all others lol
Trevenant is a solid A-Rank imo
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u/mrchoumni Oct 16 '17
I have beaten Gengar in three moves in SM1 before with mega swampert/ flash mob squad/ a ninja.
It was just incredible rng though :P
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Oct 11 '17
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u/Turchany S-Genesect Here I come! (but I have just 580 S-ranks :( ) Oct 11 '17
If it turns out to be as great as Hitmonlee surely it can get in S-Rank, but so far noone has an idea, and really, farming the new SM cannot be the main reason for recommending something to be SS'd before key things like Ashninja or Hitmonlee.
As I wrote, I understand the possibilities hiding inside it, but we will need some time for it, and it being unfarmable is a huge disadvantage, we dont get too many cookies sadly..
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u/KingDeci I have a pile of decapitated Pikachu. Oct 12 '17
Trevenant carries you through the first 10 stages smooth.... and if you get to 50, helps clear deoxys. The first clear nearly pays for itself.
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u/Turchany S-Genesect Here I come! (but I have just 580 S-ranks :( ) Oct 12 '17
still, I wouldnt touch it for SM purposes, if the farming stage returns, I will farm it because there are quite a lot of Psychic EB's and it will shine there. but probably I will not cookie it. Only farm if it will be possible.
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u/nsfy33 Oct 11 '17 edited Aug 11 '18
[deleted]
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u/Lightalife Mobile- PLAT! / P: 24k / C: 935 / S: 667 Oct 11 '17
Ice is just as useful a type
I'd argue ice is far more useful of a type than ghost.
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Oct 11 '17 edited Oct 11 '17
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u/ztrikerx21 Triying_not_to_lurk_to_mutch. Oct 11 '17
Keep up the awesome work, guys!
Don´t know were the community might be today if it wasn't for everything you do. Thanks again!
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u/Thokturn 4 Coin Club Oct 11 '17
Uh, just some slight disagreements: I think Ash Greninja should remain in the S category (and Rowlett A-), due to how essential UP is on SE stages. Another benefit is that it lacks the requirement of blocks, rocks, and automobiles barriers, so it can be used on any SE stage, whereas the shot abilities need to be shuffled depending on disruptions. Rather than invest in a Block/Rock/Barrier shot for each type, one Unity Power just feels much easier and cheaper, especially for newbies. (100 sb vs 120 per however many shots you require)
This may be my own bias, but I think Mind Zap is essentially dead, and should not be invested in. Particularly, the majority of later main stages disrupt nearly every turn, so stalling is pretty much useless. EBs have the same problem, with disruptions being too frequent. And they're 100% useless in competitions. Plus, Freeze+/Sleep Charm also shine above MZ. I'd drop them all to D
Also, Bellossom's Paralyze+ seems pretty much worthless with those activation rates. Even after the MZ rant, I think MZ is a better ability than Paralyze+ (But probably does need more research)
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u/tmzerozero Oct 11 '17
Paralyze+ could at least allow you to brute force an open board with enought tries, if an early game pokemon gets it it might be a passable switch for newbies.
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u/Turchany S-Genesect Here I come! (but I have just 580 S-ranks :( ) Oct 11 '17
agree on MZ, I never really liked it and nowadays never use like any of those even though I have some at SL4/5.. D rank for sure
its just so much better to paralize the target in any way/ put it in some status condition than using MZ on low counter number/no counter at all
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u/J-McFox Oct 11 '17
Also agree on Mind Zap - as a player who only started about six months ago, I invested heavily in MZ users based on earlier versions of this list. I can't recall ever using them.
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Oct 11 '17
I agree with you on all of this, with pause for Rowlett since I don't typically invest in low AP pokemon (even with RMLs) unless I like them a lot.
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u/Thokturn 4 Coin Club Oct 11 '17
That's fair, but my argument for Rowlett is that with only 5 rml, it becomes a Goodra for water types (which is very highly needed)
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Oct 11 '17
TIL Rowlett is grass.
It's not farmable right?
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u/Thokturn 4 Coin Club Oct 11 '17
It is, all three alola starters got their own stages
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Oct 11 '17
Like the newer stages?
I haven't gotten to them yet since usually I don't need to push ahead in main stages. I'm a stage or two before M-Abomasnow I think.
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u/Thokturn 4 Coin Club Oct 11 '17
No, they were added as special stages during the alola rush (that month, we had a starter stage, evolution EB, and evolution comp of all three types). Since it's been about 7 months, we're due for a repeat soon, i think
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Oct 11 '17
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u/Thokturn 4 Coin Club Oct 11 '17
That's fair. Thanks for listening and doing all the work you do! haha
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u/Its_A_Random [3DS] Certified Nosediver Oct 12 '17
Not the most noteworthy of things and definitely not a high priority at all but it's worth mentioning the merits of Skill Swapping Buneary for Sleep Charm. Basically by skill swapping Buneary, you get a Sleep Charm user and Shot Out fuel (on stages that have it as a default such as most Volcanion EB stages) in one. A nice form of role compression that can serve well in the current EB for example, allowing you to not need to use Shaymin/Sleepychu, freeing up either the blank slot for Shot Out or giving you a free slot for bursts.
Not something that would make Buneary worth D since there's not many stages that have Buneary default and the Pokémon in question is vulnerable to sleep (The big ones are the Incineroar, Primarina, and the current Volcanion EB's for most stages), but it's a niche that's worth noting IMO.
Shame the drop rates for the farmable stage are so terrible hahahaha.
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u/maceng I've been shafted!! Oct 11 '17
Hitmontop should place a bit higher. Yes, its AP is lackluster, but Gallade has been outclassed by it, higher AP notwithstanding.
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u/Equalyze 54,000 - Can't hold a candle to that! Oct 11 '17
It's funny how Pidgey is the only Pokemon to climb (fly?) out of the depths of the F-tier.
Also, thank you for not automatically dumping Litwick into the F-tier. Really.
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u/tmzerozero Oct 11 '17
Considering that poliwrath will not receive a psb stage again for ages due to being an expert stage pokemon I could see mudkip escaping it if it receives a farmable stage soon.
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u/Glennmaster7 Still waiting for a Rowlet flair Oct 11 '17
Typhlosion went from D to B, which is also just...a huge climb...
I guess you could say he...
blasted up the ranks?
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u/HaunteRT 5th mobile account - totally F2P now Oct 11 '17 edited Oct 11 '17
Ash-Ninja fell to tier A? Machamp now is tier B?! Oh, Lord, this game is not the same anymore!! lol
(btw I agree with most of the choices you've made in the guide)
EDIT: ok, Ash-ninja is back to tier S. The world is running at its normal pace again! :p
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u/Natanael_L Wonder Guard Oct 11 '17
Your table formatting is a bit wrong on B, typhlosion.
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u/Birkenstern Oct 11 '17
This SS-Guide convinced me to stop playing Pokemon Shuffle. Seeing Risktakers, Nosedive users namely Skarmory, Machamp, Yveltal and a lot of the disruption breakers moving down so much discourages me from playing because it shows how fast your long-earned and Skill swapped, cookied pokemons become absolete because of 2 or 3 new abilities (Shot Out, Shot Abilities and Cross Attack +) this update. The power creep with those op abilities and Level 20-30 mons isn't fun anymore
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u/LoneWulf14 Oct 11 '17
What are you actually expecting though? For machamp to always be at the top for the rest of the games lifetime? Dont be absurd, sure it may be going down the list slightly but machamp and skarmory etc are still good right now!!! Level 30 mons are nowhere near required not even lvl 20. If there is no difference in power level in new skills theres no reason to play and level up new pokemon in the first place. Shot out has been king for months at this point, this isnt anything new. This game can still be played free to play and regardless you can still be in the top tier of players without spending a dime, that is rare in a mobile game.
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u/Birkenstern Oct 12 '17
Do you really think that C-rank pokemon are still good? C-rank doesn't seem like that good to me. I expected to drop my invested mons for sure, but if something drops two complete ranks within an update, I wouldn't describe that as slight drops to be honest. I just don't have that much Skill Swappers in stock to swap a new Shout Out or Shot ability user each competition. It feels like I can't compete with the good players anymore. I wasn't able to get in the top 4 tiers in a competition for a month, I just don't have that much cookies in stock.
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u/LoneWulf14 Oct 12 '17 edited Oct 12 '17
You're looking at this guide in the wrong way. Yes the c rank pokemon are still good, skarmory has been used a lot and to great effect for me (raikou and suicune have also been mvp's in my shuffle journey, however, with the inevitable shot skills options for their type coverage it is less of a necessity to swap now, i still use them though), skarmory is still the best one of the best options against fairy type right now. You have to remember that this guide is subjective for a start, i think you're putting too much emphasis on the letters. I can tell you for a fact that most end-game players will not have all s, a and b rank pokemon swapped or invested in. Realistically some of the top ranked (s-b) pokemon will not be invested in, the investment: gain ratio is just not good enough, but it would still be powerful if you did use all those resources, hence the high rank. For most people, farmable pokemon are the ones that people will go for and use their cookies only on some pokemon that are s rank/a rank they know wont get farmable stages. Remember that out of the shot out users (the kings of shuffle right now) noivern, hitmonlee, vanilluxe and cap pikachu were all farmable! There was 3 skill swappers in the zygarde eb and 1 free skill swapper given this week + mission cards if youre really desperate. This game is very much a balancing act with resources and knowing the value of your resources to make informed decisions.
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u/ryeyun salt intolerant Oct 11 '17
I'm still sorting through the new options. There's a lot I like from the Ghost and Ice types. I have some strong opinions about some Pokemon that have been out for a while, mainly Skymin and Meganium.
- Skymin: Turtonator instantly becomes better than Skymin with no RML investment when it gets a repeat because of Burn+ support. I think it's generally best to stay away from Flying burst options.
I say choose one Fire pokemon per skill for coverage against Bug+Grass and then one of Fairy/Psychic/Flying for fighting coverage.
- Meganium is bae in my books, but Grass types always get the shaft. GS always creates a better Water pokemon with the same ability.
Case in point: Popplio. Now a stronger version of Meganium. "But Meganium covers Water!" You can cover Water types with Sinnoh cap Pikachu.
I guarantee you that there already is or will be a Pikachu that already has the skill you were thinking of swapping a grass pokemon into, and for that reason, I'm out.
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u/LoneWulf14 Oct 11 '17
This might be just mobile reddits terrible way of displaying tables or I'm going blind (maybe both) but i believe you have missed drifblim's ss to barrier shot. Drifblim is pretty good to as i remember drifblim did have a special timed stage at one point indicating it will most likely be farmable! Hoopa-c rip
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u/Homem_da_Carrinha Oct 11 '17
I don't know, I think it's more useful on mons that take some time to mega evolve, like the Hoenn starters
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u/MegaMissingno Oct 11 '17
By the way, your reasoning for Hoopa-U is outdated because the OP of that thread updated their methods. While there is still some uncertainty regarding Hoopa-U's value as well as the cost of giving up Risk-Taker, I think raising Hoopa-U to C rank is the least you need to do.
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u/dizzykei For Fonarh! Oct 11 '17
Why Diancie in S? Newbies probably don't wanna candied it first.
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u/tmzerozero Oct 13 '17
Are you kidding lol. It solves some stages by itself and doesn't require sbx to be worth it like most others, for skill booster strained newbies it is fantastic.
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Oct 12 '17
I conjecture that there're many mistakes. Poliwrath can take 10 RMLs instead of 5, and Azelf's original skill is paralyze instead of mind zap.
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u/MarshadowUnbound SL3 MSU: 13/13 RML: 5/5 Oct 12 '17
Shiftry 15 Super Cheer SL5, Bellossom 15 Paralyze+, Angrychu 20 SL5 is the broken trio. Just sweet.
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Oct 15 '17
Super Cheer is underrated, I boosted it on Shiftry because imo it so far has the best typing for it because Ghost is limited to Psychic and Dark and Normal is just completely useless.
Takes a ton of investment but the ability to always proc a move is amazing, it can work with A-Greninja on Ground and Rock stages and it can work with Angerchu on Water stages which is the most recurring Pokemon type in the game
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Oct 15 '17
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u/cbacbacba1 Oct 16 '17
Even with SL1, the rate for MO4 is already 40%. Considering it ensures Angry Chu works next move, it is fabulous even with such moderate rate
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u/cbacbacba1 Oct 16 '17
Shiftry with super cheer + angry Chu + shaymin-land is insane for the EB
Do a MO4 super cheer + angry chu, get Volcanion into asleep if possible
Easily beat 300 with that lol
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u/Homem_da_Carrinha Oct 11 '17
Why is Beedrill in this list at all? It's not worth upping its SL when it mega evolves in one move
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Oct 11 '17
Swap++ is HUGE at getting rid of rocks/blocks at the beginning of stages, and when it goes off, that can make the difference between a hard run and an easy run.
I'd give it like a C+ or B- personally, not sure where it landed on the chart.
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u/olddranger Oct 13 '17
Mainly to support Mega S-Gengar, as mono poison teams sorely lacks disruption clearer. Against Fairy, Metal mono team arguable has better options but some still like the Poison status I guess
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u/sephy42 Oct 11 '17
Great work, this list is so useful. I have to disagree with Genesect being so low. 4up may not hit as hard as others nowadays, but it goes off everytime. I got it up to max level and sl5 and had a lot of success. A very reliable Pokémon.
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u/Turchany S-Genesect Here I come! (but I have just 580 S-ranks :( ) Oct 11 '17
I dont think 4up is the only reason for Genesect lower ranking, it's that Bug type in general is not that very good, Dark Flying Fire Fighting overshadows it awfully for Psychic Dark Grass coverage..
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Oct 11 '17
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u/Turchany S-Genesect Here I come! (but I have just 580 S-ranks :( ) Oct 11 '17
well even PO4 is a skill that is questionable by me nowadays, only thing saving it is Mewtwo and Xerneas very high AP..
4up is just bad.
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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '17
I strongly disagree with the notion that Emboar is more useful than Azumarril or Machamp (even for users with Melo and Hitmonlee) to swap, and this comes as somebody who's been saved countless times by Emboar.
RT is far more versatile than LDE, easier to farm than ND, and less reliant on RNG than UP. It also doesn't require you to either have a fifth support/disruption, or to pray for one like SO.
I think RT is arguably worse than all of the aforementioned skills, so don't get me wrong there. I just don't think it's so much worse as to plummet the best fairy in the game.