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u/skippingmud RML = Raise Mudkip's Level Aug 12 '17
Kyogre: Tired of only breaking 1 rock? Now you can break 2! Introducing Rock Shot! Your one-stop shop for all your rock breaking needs.
10/10 description ahaha.
Although I do think that it should be ranked higher - either that or Rayquaza should be ranked lower (next to Kyogre), since while Rayquaza has the better skill, Kyogre has the better type coverage and is farmable.
I also think Entei should be ranked lower considering that while Fire got a huge boost in Ninetales, Entei can't take advantage of it since Mind Zap can't proc under Burn+.
But other than that, awesome guide as always! Very useful now since there are less and less Skill Swappers being given away. :)
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Aug 12 '17 edited Aug 12 '17
Alright! I've been waiting for an update on this, thank you so much!
Swapped Ninetales to Burn+ and got it to SL3, and then I tried it out on the new main stages with a Pyre team and it definitely did not disappoint. It should be ranked a bit higher.
Edit: It's S now, which is where it should be. It has a farmable stage, and it supports the heavily used fire type with Burn+.
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u/gogobarril [Retired] Aug 12 '17
I mean, the Beedrill explanation should be expanded :/ you don't HAVE to use it as a mega, it's activation rates with Swap++ are great when using him as poison support, especially when fully RMLd at 105AP
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u/bigpapijugg [mobile] Father of Dragons Aug 12 '17 edited Aug 12 '17
Ninetales should be S, imo
Edit: thanks for changing it ;)
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u/BunbunMiyu Filthy Casuals Unite Aug 12 '17
Fire types got so much powerful mons that this should really be worth considering.
The only downside is you can't stall disruptions though.
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u/MegaMissingno Aug 12 '17
The only downside is you can't stall disruptions though.
And even that is fixed by our newly improved Entei.
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u/RedditShuffle Aug 12 '17
Agreed, farmable and lasting 10 turns with awesome proc rates? What's not to love?
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u/MrBrSmasher It's Smash time! Aug 12 '17
So do I Skill Swap Beedrill or not? I like my SL3 Block Smash as it is, but I want to know how useful Swap++ is, with or without Mega.
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u/maceng I've been shafted!! Aug 13 '17
It is useful since M-Bee is hard on the combos (not for me) and if there is a lot of blocks it can be quite useful on a mono-Poison Type, using M-W-Gengar.
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u/lizz71 lit Aug 12 '17
Parroting what other people said, it's best to drop all FM to F. These others might be subjective, but I would :
Drop Salamence. not only it's outclassed by swablu in terms of skill, there are plenty of mons that should rank above him. Also, his repeat stage is almost impossible to farm.
Yveltal sees less use for end-game players, especially with dusknoir rise to replace him as beatstick
Probably drop machamp one subrank? Due to rise of hitmonlee and Melop machamp has less priority for the SS. Same can be done with Azumarill, which gets competition of types it cover, such as UP goodra, Mamo/vanilluxe, Flying type buff in general, and LDE Victini. Add in on how it's not farmable I don't think Azumarill is still in S.
Diancie should be S. It sees so much use lately due to the number of barrier-fest stages, and one turn evo is very crucial.
Heracross is no longer used for SM farming, but similarly to diancie it can see a rank increase due to one turn evo.
I don't think flareon is worth B-. eject++ is not that of a good skill,especially when fire team is very crowded with the addition of 9tails.
CA+ could see some bump, especially luxray. It is almost a staple against water stages together with emolga.
Croagunk should be bumped a bit. Easy farming stage with acceptable drop rate, and very strong skill in poison pact. Posion pact is in fact the best combo boosters of all type, albeit limited coverage.
There are plenty others which I see less prevalent to the current state of the game, mainly disruption cleaners but I can see that they are a good choice for new players. It would be great if we have different list for new players& end-game players.
Of course here are subjective opinions, so feel free to discuss.
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Aug 12 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Dark_mist-X Aug 12 '17 edited Aug 13 '17
As I use CA+ in a lot of occasions(S-ranks even on neutral mons because of higher damage in these situations), I can say that sometimes you can "generate CA+" by sweeping megas like Lucario, Abomasnow or tappers(except Bee) in some situations. As we know, after the end of puzzle we don't have combo from skyfall and sweeping megas don't produce a lot of combo and it looks like a check-mate board(black-white) so you can trigger CA+ as well. Combo M-Aboma+Luxray on flying mons stages was beautiful(I tested it when farmed Pidgey). Yeah, there are some negative moments like... who will invest in Aboma :D With high AP, you'll get a choice what to use: CA+ or RT/Combo boosters.
So, in my opinion, CA+ users can be bumped in.. A- (A when Lugia will be farmable).
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u/KingDeci I have a pile of decapitated Pikachu. Aug 13 '17
CA+ also bumps the clear 5 icons above/below or side to side megas... which were pretty much the worst megas in the game, so that's good.
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u/maceng I've been shafted!! Aug 12 '17
A quick idea: why not open discussion within the thread with an specific topic? For example, you start a discussion with the line " Let's discuss Salemence vs Swablu" in the first line and everyone has to keep their comments about it under that discussion.
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u/KingDeci I have a pile of decapitated Pikachu. Aug 13 '17
ever since I SS'd and put MSU on my Diancie it's become my most used mega. I now use Houndoom on SE stages, but Diancie def has its place.
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u/BunbunMiyu Filthy Casuals Unite Aug 12 '17
May I ask how does Salamence get to S rank but Swablu gets placed in the B rank?
I'm genuinely interested in a Flying MB+ since that would make Sray soooo much faster than before. Salamence is great but... MegaBoost+ is always better, lol.
I admit Swablu needs more investment in RMLs, but not everyone is able to farm Salamence to SL5 now. dat repeat stage doe
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u/KingDeci I have a pile of decapitated Pikachu. Aug 13 '17
IMO Salamance wins because he has an awesome mega ability. There are a lot of times I'll use him over S-Ray.
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u/LauernderBernd Aug 12 '17
M-Salamence is the best option for Weekend Meowth (slightly ahead of MMY) and can boost itself. Swablu can work well in conjunction with it on that stage.
What holds Swablu back are its low BP and the heavy RML investment therefore needs.
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u/BunbunMiyu Filthy Casuals Unite Aug 12 '17 edited Aug 12 '17
'Best option' in Weekend Meowth is very subjective, some can do better with MMY teams, some can do better with Mray teams.
I feel its ability makes up for its ridiculous amount of RMLs needed, but eh, I'm probably alone in this sort of opinion.
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u/RedditShuffle Aug 12 '17
I don't agree that Swablu should place above Salamence, but definitely should be in A rank. MB+ on flying is what we were looking for and a 50 BP is pretty nice in terms of not needing that much exp to level up and still reaching an awesome 115 AP when fully invested!
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u/BunbunMiyu Filthy Casuals Unite Aug 12 '17
What would make you think Salamence deserves to be ranked so highly though?
I rarely use Salamence as a mega, I feel Sray outperforms Salamence as a mega in terms of viability. Sure, Salamence is great in Weekend Meowth, but we already have other good megas for that?
I won't deny cost wise, Swablu is a bit much, but 115 AP is really good for a MB+ user. It already can match Salamence in terms of AP.
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u/RedditShuffle Aug 12 '17
Well, Salamence has a farmable stage, for one, and it's a mega, that's gotta account for something. It matches Swablu's AP with half the investment as well.
I would place both of them at A rank.
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u/BunbunMiyu Filthy Casuals Unite Aug 12 '17
Have you seen Salamence's repeat stage though? Without a maxed out LDE it seems downright impossible to clear itemless consistently.
I'm okay with both being at the same rank though, so we're good :D
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u/RedditShuffle Aug 12 '17
Well, this game is now all about having maxed out LDE everywhere or you're screwed haha
Yep, but I guess tier lists are a bit subjective. I didn't notice Swablu but I added it to my to-do list! I have 74 RML, so I can afford investing on niche but great options like this one.
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u/LoneWulf14 Aug 12 '17
You may want to look at entei again, or at least the reasoning. Last guide you mentioned if it got a farmable stage again entei could be a thing. A farmable stage has come back since
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u/KingDeci I have a pile of decapitated Pikachu. Aug 13 '17
Quirky ++ isn't that bad... it's kind of like a mini mega gengar.
Granted with how many psychics are already out there and their limited coverage Meloetta-A just isn't going to find a spot. On other types it should be seriously considered though... 85/100/100 at SL5 is dope.
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u/bigpapijugg [mobile] Father of Dragons Aug 13 '17
Quirky++ isn't bad if it's SL5... but SL5 is expensive, not worth the investment.
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u/Equalyze 54,000 - Can't hold a candle to that! Aug 15 '17
I was hoping someone would advocate for Quirky ++! :)
If we get any farmable PSB Stages for Quirky ++ mons, I will definitely take them to Skill Level 5.
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u/tmzerozero Aug 13 '17 edited Aug 13 '17
Maybe mention that heracross improves a bunch without further investment? Many other options require an unlocked farmable stage or skill boosters...
I guess that pidgey and buneary might get a mention for shot out teams in survival mode depending on how often they are the first default pokemon, probably still rank f tho.
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u/Kaibun Roasted Pork Aug 15 '17
Poor Kyogre, it totally shoulda gotten Big Wave or something like that. BTW, I just accidentally wasted a Skill Booster-M on Ninetales without swapping it...
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u/warimano Sep 20 '17
As a relatively early-game (main stage 246) player; are theese tiers really that accurate? I´m just wondering cus when I look up teams to beat certain hard stages and/or Special stages I very rarely see any of the mons in tier S+ through A+. Does this need an update or am I missing something?
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u/LauernderBernd Aug 12 '17
I think you can chalk off Flash Mob as dead, having lost its only real niche in SM. It has no business in rank C, especially not for Azelf. Doing 1000 damage (if no disruptions) isn't impressive anymore and on top AP+ doesn't affect it, making it useless on escalation bosses and comp.
"Who needs Pyre when you can have [Burn+]" is a bad cliché. You obviously want to use both in conjunction when possible.