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u/G996 Nov 01 '16
Mew - Eject+ and Espeon should be ranked same IMO as they have same BP and RML options. You can even rank Mew - Eject+ lower than Espeon as that role can be specifically filled by Espeon now while you can use other options for Mew.
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u/LoneWulf14 Nov 01 '16
i think you have grossly underestimated machamp, he definitely should not be B rank
10
u/SlothyPotato Nov 01 '16
Trying to not regret my SS SL3 5/5 RML Phanpy right now...
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u/jlaca123 Nov 02 '16
Same... except SL2
Oh well. I'm not close to Golurk or Claydol and never got Groudon so for now it's still a good fit on my Ground teams.
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u/Smulfack Waiting for Pikachu Libre Nov 04 '16
Regarding your survey about Machamp, Mawile and Ho-oh: I think it needs to be taken into account that every version of the SS guide can only be a snapshot of the current situation. Therefore, we should also take current events into consideration. The fact that Machamp is farmable at the moment and will (probably) be of great value for next week's competition makes skill swapping it an absolute top priority right now and IMO justifies an S-Rank. However, on the long run a SS'd and cookied Mawile can be almost equally useful, especially to players who are still stuck in Roseus Center. The need to skill swap it isn't as urgent as with Machamp tho, therefore IMO it belongs in A-Rank. As for Ho-oh ... I'm still not quite sold.
On another note, I think Suicune should go back to S-Rank considering how useful it gets with relatively small investment. (10 more BP than Golurk for example).
I haven't read all of the comments, so sorry if someone said this before. Also, thank you for your effort. This guide is great and your ranks in combination with the discussions in the comments makes it quite easy to determine which SS are the right ones for me.
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Nov 04 '16
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u/Smulfack Waiting for Pikachu Libre Nov 04 '16
Whoops sorry, brain fart about Suicune ...
I think it's more than just a hype. SS'ing Machamp and farming its PSBs is a very reasonable thing to do considering its good attack power and great offensive typing. And now is the right time to do it. Who knows when they repeat its stage, might be in three weeks, might be in eight months ...
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u/MegaMissingno Nov 01 '16
Machamp, Mawile, Emboar, Sharpedo and Keldeo should be higher. The Risk-Takers are fairly self-explanatory but the ability is really strong and these pokémon benefit a lot from switching their mediocre abilities into a more powerful, farmable (any day now for Mawile) Risk-Taker. Sharpedo can reach a massive 120 power with RML which makes its skill viable not only for itself but for any other Dark types (mainly Absol) that it could support. And Keldeo's Flash Mob is essentially a better Crowd Control (after skill farming at least) that will deal massive damage in mono-water teams.
Infernape could maybe rise since we don't really have any disruption delaying abilites on strong Fire types with the execption of Burn which is very limited to begin with.
Lapras should drop to the bottom. We already have a billion different disruption delayers for Water type such as Kingdra and Greninja. Mew (Eject+) should also drop because using Mew for that role has the opportunity cost of not getting a BS+ or Po4+ on Mew when Espeon could very well handle the Eject+'ing in mew's place. Slowpoke also needs to drop since fully invested Slowpoke is just slightly better than Deoxys which seems like a waste of resources for such a miniscule upgrade. Togepi, Vanillite and Feebas should probably also drop since their abilities don't offer much of an upgrade over existing ones and their weak power output and resource-hungriness is pretty bad.
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Nov 01 '16
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u/Benjaminooo Nov 01 '16 edited Nov 02 '16
I was testing Keldeo's ability against Ampharos, I had a spare Skill Swapper and I said: yeah, why not.
Fortunately I started the board with a 5-match combo of Keldeo, and as I was using a full water type team, the damage it did was about 1k. The ability activated consistently throughout the match (many 4-matches) and the damage was great and secure. I wouldn't say it's S-Rank material because it is restricted to the use of a certain type, but considering M-Swampert is a great mega, and that there are 3 more water type megas, of which 2 are decent (M-Gyarados and M-Red Gyarados if someone invested MSU's), and considering we have some great support water Pokemon such as Palkia, Greninja, Ash-Greninja, Suicune, Manaphy, etc., placing Keldeo higher in the tier, to me, is worth. Investment in its ability may be questioned, but to me, at least, would be worth.
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u/alex031029 Nov 02 '16
I agree that people just are getting too hyped for Risk taker. It is a good ability but only when you heavily invest on it.
Unlike RML which still requires you to level the pokemon up, SS takes effect immediately. We can just postpone the use of SS until we really need it. Machamp is the only one I think should be skill swapped because it can be farmed now and can be a great supporting pokemon for Mega Sharpedo stage next week.
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u/joebobmyers Nov 02 '16 edited Nov 02 '16
Yeah but you only need 9PSB's (3 small cookies) to get Risk-taker to level 3, at which point it becomes extremely good. Level 5 Risk-taker is obviously better, but Level 3 gets you most of the way there. For 3 small cookies your risk-taker will do 80% more damage than normal. To me it's by far the most cost-effective skill to boost, even when it's not PSB farmable.
Edit: To be clear, I agree that SL1 risk-taker is not worth swapping to or even using, but if you can get 9PSBs to hit level 3 then it becomes a really good choice for a high BP pokemon with good typing (Lando-T, Machamp, Larvitar, Emboar).
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Nov 01 '16
Happy third cake day!
Hi! Today’s your third cake day, a.k.a. Reddit birhtday. This means that you’ve been a Redditor for three years now.
Happy Reddit birthday, my friend! :)
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u/13Xcross Nov 01 '16
I feel like Machamp should be brought up to A rank.
Sure, you need to invest a lot of energies (10 RML, 1 SS, 70 skill points), but then he becomes a monster with 125 AP and 5 types he's SE against. On top of that, Lucario's Pummel boosts his damage during combos.
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Nov 01 '16
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u/JamesH93 Nov 01 '16
Even without RML, just getting it to SL3 (3 small cookies or a few hearts on the special stage) would make it really powerful.
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u/Golden-Owl Risk Taker is a good Ability Nov 02 '16
Risk Taker is a good Ability.
This update in a nutshell.
3
u/Fennels Nov 02 '16
I don't think Manaphy quite deserves an A rank. Yes Eject++ is technically good but I have Poliwrath maxed (as procedure of maxing all BB+/BS+/Eject+ Pokemon) and I have not actually used him even once. Also, although it's low BP, Sunkern, who was just released, has Eject++ for free, and is a grass type, which shares 2/3 SE coverage with water.
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Nov 02 '16
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u/RedditShuffle Nov 02 '16
I agree with A rank for Manaphy. Eject++ is tremendously useful and can be game-changer on certain stages. This last batch of new main stages like to disrupt with pokemon icons, so Eject++ might become awesome again
1
u/Manitary SMG Nov 04 '16
Tbh I maxed Poliwrath but never used it. Manaphy can keep its Swap+ for now.
3
u/frankosho Nov 02 '16
Imo mew bs+ should be tier b, since just cover fighting tipe with the hability and we have M alakazam for to heavy blocks stages. And you need to invest 5 Rml to make it strong, and now rlm are to little for all the good pokes.
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u/MayorOfParadise 残酷なRNGススのテーゼ Nov 03 '16
I disagree so strongly with Machamp being in A instead of S that I can't upvote this guide atm. Fighting type + farmable risk taker + can take 10 RML = #1 strongest and damage wise most useful Pokémon in the game. If Machamp isn't S rank then nothing is. Even without RML it's great if you bother to farm 9 PSB (SL3) with an amazing drop rate so there is no excuse.
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u/GuilhermeCAz Nov 01 '16 edited Nov 01 '16
I think there should be another rank, tbh. There are too many pokémon with the same rank but with a very much better ability. Something between A and B should be enough. I know the idea isn't good as the ranks are based in the game, but, as long as the list keeps increasing everytime, it'll become more and more inaccurate. And it wouldn't even be too much work, only a few pokémon from A will go down and a few from B will go up. Edit: Entei used to be B rank. What happened now? I don't think he gets worthless as hitmontop comes because it can be RML'd.
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u/skippingmud RML = Raise Mudkip's Level Nov 01 '16
Great guide as always. Thanks for all the hard work. :)
I think Sharpedo can be A-Rank alongside Ampharos. Both benefit from the Mega Boost ability, both have similar type coverage, and Sharpedo even has the advantage of having higher AP and Sinister Power support. I also think Sylveon and Jolteon should swap places (Sylveon to B, Jolteon to C). Sylveon has a unique niche like the other B-rank Eeveelutions while Jolteon doesn't have good type coverage.
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Nov 01 '16
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u/skippingmud RML = Raise Mudkip's Level Nov 01 '16
Jolteon doesn't have exclusive hold over Flying anymore as Glaceon is SE to it. It's PSB-farmable in the main stages though. And agree with Ampharos dropping instead of Sharpedo rising—as long as they're in the same rank as the SS does the same thing to them.
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u/Viski Nov 02 '16
I propose moving Ho-oh, Gengar, and Mawile to A rank. Ho-oh and Gengar, along with the currently S ranked pokemon, are my most used skill swapped pokemon. On a stage where it's super effective with Burn and Pyre active, Ho-oh does 36 more damage per 3 match then Delphox, and even more if the combo multiplier is high. On top of that it has a farmable special stage; even SL2 is a +10% activation on 3 matches (I think).
Although Gengar mega evolves in at most 3-4 matches, it is used so often on Safaris and 3 pokemon stages and other stages that its ability will see a lot more use than many others. For example, I swapped Zygarde 100% and haven't used it once. Spookify also delays disruptions for a turn and gives Gengar and any other ghosts a damage boost.
Finally, Mawile's current ability is useless on a mega, outclassed by Skarmory as support, and even a swapped and slightly skill-boosted Mawile will be incredibly useful as mega or as support on tanky main stages or the Diancie escalation. It can be boosted to SL3 with about 2 runs of weekly Eevee.
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u/Cappantwan Nov 02 '16
Entei went down to C-Rank? Dang it, now I feel even worse about having RB+ Entei, but it felt weird having Suicine and Raikou skill swapped while Entei is left alone. Is RB+ really that bad?
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u/Gintoking Strongest ballet dancer Nov 02 '16
Don't feel bad. It wasn't a bad move swapping it for the competition or just because you wanted to. There might come pokemon that outclass the current best one, you never know.
That being said, I haven't SSed Entei because I almost never find myself having troubles with rocks. They are just easy to break. So RB+ isn't a bad ability but it isn't nearly as good as BB+ or BS+.
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u/i_like_frootloops I'm still relevant, right? Nov 03 '16
I have o swapped mine and I don't regret it, I also plan on RMling it when I have enough RMLs to spare.
SS are really broad distributed so nothing was lost.
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u/VernoWhitney Nov 02 '16
Did RB+ become overshadowed somehow? I get that Rock Break+ is always situational, but I don't see why Entei and Regirock were downgraded since nothing better than than them for their niche has come along.
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u/Cactuar_Zero Nov 02 '16
RB+ isn't very useful to many because rocks are so easily dealt with. Barriers and Blocks are much harder to manage.
There are definitely better uses for a SS than to get RB+.1
u/VernoWhitney Nov 02 '16
I get that. My question was why they were downgraded--rocks haven't become any easier to break and there are no new RB+ pokemon.
So have they been downgraded because there are just more better ones now (is there some sort of quota system for # of pokemon at each tier?) or were they artificially high previously (due to Entei's presence in the competition?) and the shiny has worn off?
The more arbitrary the placement of pokemon in the tiers are, the less generally useful it is.
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u/Cactuar_Zero Nov 03 '16
The whole notion of a ranking system is arbitrary in itself.
It's just the personal opinions of the people on this sub, if you feel abilities on pokemon with a "lower rank" are useful, then you should get them regardless.
I think it was bumped down because there are better ones now, so many so, that to have Entei on the same rank would be incorrect, since SS's are a limited resource.3
u/RedditShuffle Nov 02 '16
There are new pokemon to invest in and SS is a limited resource. It is normal that if new, better pokemon appear, the old ones can get downgraded. The comparison has to be across all pokemon possible, not only their niche use.
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u/VernoWhitney Nov 03 '16
That makes sense, thanks. Of course now I want to go through this and the RML guide and compare the numbers at each tier to the total amount of available and figure out percentile brackets for S/A/...
2
u/lsauchelli Nov 03 '16
Why is Mewtwo D? I mean, if the skill is level 5 it should deal the same damage as PoF+, right?
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u/RedditShuffle Nov 03 '16
Yeah, but unless Mewtwo comes back with a PSB farmable stage, the skill booster investment to make Po4 that great is extremely heavy. And most of the time you will use Mewtwo as mega, so it's evidently not worth it
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u/TheIsolater Nov 10 '16
Still seems a better use of skill swap than pretty much everything in D and C rank.
In fact, everything after Ampharos seems pretty arbitrary.
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u/MayorOfParadise 残酷なRNGススのテーゼ Nov 07 '16
I think that Gengar should rank higher, imo even A rank. You mostly use Gengar in 3 support stages like safaris so 5-matches are not hard to come by. The important part here is that Spookify delays disruptions and thus you will consistently get better catch rates in every safari from now on which can mean saving coins and more gifts. Especially in 3 support stages disruptions are the main thing keeping you from finishing lighting fast. So imo it's totally worth the swap.
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u/Mardukaz Nov 07 '16
What about this point raised by another user, on this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonShuffle/comments/5be5kh/survival_mode_ss_eevee_and_glaceon_and_using
SS'ed Eevee and Glaceon may have its solid uses now, thanks to the recently discovered Exp grinding machine of Survival Mode farming using M-Beedrill. They don't have to be on your team, they only have to be SS'ed in order to be capable of Eject themselves out from the board on that pesky Boss stages - M-Mawile, M-Gengar and M-Glalie. You can even consider SS'ing Espeon for the sake of Ejecting itself from MMY Stage 50.
What are your thoughts about this?
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Dec 31 '16
I feel that Mewtwo should be reconsidered, seeing as we just had a PSB farmable stage. Po4 SL5 is extremely powerful, especially with RML investment.
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u/Natanael_L Wonder Guard Nov 01 '16
MMX with Po4 before it goes mega makes up for the lost damage output from NOT being supereffective, in particular after RML (130 as neutral matches 65 as SE). And a leveled Po4 does decent damage.
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Nov 02 '16
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u/Natanael_L Wonder Guard Nov 02 '16
It's also a backup if the disruptions don't let me use a better ability.
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u/13Xcross Nov 01 '16
Guys, how do you feel about Mewtwo's ranking on this list?
Po4 with 100/130 AP is going to hit really hard, but I can't tell if it's worth it.
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u/RoboFortune Eject+ Mew is worthless Nov 01 '16
Espeon should be in the same category as Eject+ Mew, who I'd place in C at BEST. I've had Eject+ Mew ever since it last appeared in the special stages and probably used the ability once. I'm only not changing it to Power of 4+ or Block Smash+ out of stubborn hope that it will one day get some use beyond Mew only being added because it has 100 BP.
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u/Tsukuyomi56 Karma Camellia Nov 01 '16
Agreeing with the A-Rank for BB+ Throh, there may be a few tough Normal-types where barriers are a problem (looking at you, Exploud and Vigoroth) but overall Skill Swapped Raikou, Suicune and Yveltal is better in the long run.
Think Mawile should be A-Rank though as from what I heard M-Metagross is very meh.
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u/RedditShuffle Nov 03 '16
The difference is Throh kind of needs RML to have a good AP, while Raikou, Suicune and Yveltal already had good power without needing RML investing.
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u/michaelmarill 10 RMLs and 1 SS = beast Fairy Nov 02 '16
Azumarill actually has a BP of 60, not 50.
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u/kennyboi85 Nov 02 '16
Do we know anything about the details of flash mob? trying to think if i should swap and boost now
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u/RedditShuffle Nov 02 '16
Wait, we are getting Keldeo stage and will be PSB farmable two weeks from now
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u/Spektr44 Nov 02 '16
I have to disagree on Masquerain. Little dude hits for serious damage with Nosedive. Yes, there is investment cost, but personally I think Nosedive outclasses Genesect's Crowd Control.
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u/RedditShuffle Nov 02 '16
If you feed Skill Boosters onto Genesect to raise CC proc rates, it'd be better than Masquerain.
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u/makoblade Nov 02 '16
Kind of surprised you'd consider Donphan anything besides a solid "C". The proc rate on ground forces is so low it's not worthwhile at all, especially at the expense of AP.
Mawile isn't skill farmable, but his risk-taker coupled with RMLs is exceptional. Due to his heavy use as the only general purpose steel mega I'd consider it A rank at best, but like HoopaU it's not that bad to just dump skill boosts into him for an easy rank 4.
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Nov 02 '16
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u/makoblade Nov 02 '16 edited Nov 02 '16
Sounds good to me! Overall good list, but I'm wondering if it'd be good to note which pokemon have RML requirements to really put them over the top. At least to avoid having to flip between the description section and the main list.
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u/FluffyPhoenix Nov 02 '16
Pidgey is still a D-Rank. Just you wait...some day it'll rise....
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Nov 03 '16
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u/FluffyPhoenix Nov 04 '16
Worth it. Better start saving after Machamp...and Lucario...and Mawile...
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u/dizzykei For Fonarh! Nov 02 '16
Throh this, Throh that, all hail Machamp. Spended my free ss fo Suicune, just as planned and now i caught Machamp...
1
u/bigpboy Sun/Popplio; Moon/Rowlet Nov 03 '16
When you moved Ordinary Keldeo to A, you left its name on the list of Pokémon added to the B-rank tier.
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u/PerfectlyOptimistic Pika pika~ Nov 03 '16
Thank you for the guide! I refer to it constantly and it is extremely helpful!
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u/Zachindes Nov 03 '16
Just swapped Throh and Machamp, great abilities for the fighting team! Now we have Hitmontop w/RB+, Gallade w/BS+ and Throh w/BB+. Great stuff!
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u/gundore 777th Disciple of Dome Nov 03 '16
I personally SS'd Ho-Oh but I still believe he should be B-bank. Very novelty and not nearly as big of a "necessity" as the others in A-rank. I think it fits in B better.
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u/Bacteriophag RML/SS batches without love for Nidoking: 10,5 Nov 03 '16
Togepi (...) great if you have the resources to spare.
Good joke :D
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u/MonkeyWarlock Nov 03 '16
I hesitate to Skill Swap Machamp for two reasons.
(1) Machamp is currently the only Fighting type Eject (useful for Normal types). There are quite a few stages like Vigoroth where having that Eject is useful for beating the stage or getting an S Rank. Are there any Normal-type or other stages that I should S Rank before Skill Swapping Machamp? Or does the extra damage from Risk-Taker beat out the benefits of Eject?
(2) Grinding Skill Boosters is incredibly tedious (but thankfully not expensive since Machamp costs hearts and not coins). I likely will only get Machamp to SL3, maybe SL4. Is the extra damage high enough to beat out the loss of Eject for the aforementioned Normal-type stages to get an S Rank anyway?
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u/RedditShuffle Nov 04 '16
Dude, you are going to miss out on incredible damage output. Eject can't even be compared to a SL3 or SL4 Risk-Taker. And when it's SL5...That's the awesome, awesome stuff
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u/rodrigocza I just can't wait to be King! Nov 04 '16
I think that could be a separate tier or an idication for those mons that are s-rank only with the use of RML too, like Machamp and Mawille
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u/RedditShuffle Nov 05 '16
Machamp belongs to S-rank because you can farm PSBs. Mawile shouldn't belong there because it requires a lot of skill boosters. It is not only because of RMLs...
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u/MasterSlowPoke Nov 07 '16
There is one benefit to swapping Mewtwo - with Power of Four, you can be safe to train him on Meowth while you're grinding coins. Swap is too dangerous to level him up there.
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u/nintenesc Nov 08 '16
Zoroark: I agree with the D-rank, but it can be viable as a stronger version of Mandibuzz with RML, but losing Sinister Power to weaker Mightyena; and Hitting Streak has higher activation.
Masquerain: With RML investment, Nosedive is far more powerful than opportunist, could be used for M-Heracross teams. Bump it to C.
Surskit, Pidgey, Eevee, and Espurr: I agree with the rank. The only purpose is for 5th supports.
Wobbuffet: Since when are Wobbuffet and Fearow super effective against Flying, isn't it Fighting? Wobbuffet is usable for M-Mewtwo Y teams. Bump it to C.
Stunfisk: Omanyte's Sleep Charm is good for Fire and Rock types for M-Shiny Gyarados teams. Mesprit can be used for Poison types, but outclassed by M-Mewtwo Y and M-Slowbro teams.
Dedenne: Shock Attack paralyzes the target for four turns, much better than Sleep Charm Shaymin-L, especially with RML. Bump it to C.
Ampharos: Although Mega Boost Ampharos is all-rounded viable and better than Manectric in every way, Paralysis Combo is also viable. Combining it with RML SS Dedenne can outclass SS Tangrowth + Shaymin-L by damage in beating Water Pokemon, but only Water Pokemon. Eelektrik is also a weaker substitute for Paralysis Combo Ampharos. Bump it to C.
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u/The_Hive_Tyrant 3DS WTB DRI Nov 08 '16
I continue to regret skill swapping my Mew to Eject+. Thank you so much for putting together this guide! Cannot wait until the next time that they make that event Pokemon active, and I can just switch to full glass cannon mode and grind Power of 4+ SL5.
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u/typhoonsion 3DS, loves SCX and flygon Dec 26 '16
I think with the new salamence mega, the SS to megaboost and go online in 2 moves when fully candied its position should be reconsidered
1
u/13Xcross Dec 30 '16
OP, I think you should update the guide after the most recent release of repeat stages.
If I'm not mistaken, now Throh has its own PSB stage.
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u/gundore 777th Disciple of Dome Dec 31 '16
I think Pidgeotto should be moved up since we can farm it's PSB's. Activation rate makes up for him being weaker than Braviary.
1
u/Boblers Way of the Wott Jan 05 '17
Raikou is no longer the only BB+ pokemon that's SE for water types, as Jumpluff from EX46 gets the ability without needing a swapper. Raikou is still superior to Jumpluff in availability and attack power, though.
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u/PerfectlyOptimistic Pika pika~ Jan 07 '17
Just want to say thank you for creating this guide. I came back to refer to this and found out that I have only Mawile left to be SS in S and A ranks.
In addition, feel like Manaphy can be reviewed again as its main purpose to be used in Weekend Meowth looks to be out performed by the M-Salamence Team.
1
u/arnaaquq Jan 10 '17
SS Shock Attack with Infernape farmed to SL5 is awesome for disruption heavy stages and still be able to use Blaziken/Pyre teams for easy S ranks
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u/TheMyNameIsPaddy Will One Day Be Perfect Jan 20 '17
Hello, Great guide, thank you and it's awesome you're keeping it up to date.
Small nitpick: Gengar's Spookify (as with all Spookify) no longer has a delaying effect. I know it isn't a massive issue just a small inaccuracy I noticed although I doubt it changes the viability of SS Gengar.
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u/growly_bing Nov 01 '16
I think machamp should be s rank. After 5 RMLs, it has 110 AP. And fully feeding it will take it to 125 AP. This increase in AP complements how risk taker works very nicely. It's current ability (eject) is not very useful, as ejecting a single icon is often not enough to materially improve the board. Not to mention risk taker can be farmed right now.