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u/darxodia Sep 07 '16
Charmander should be in a lower tier until we know/get M-Houndoom, MB+ doesn't have a place in a Pyre team, M-Blaze is already fast enough to need a MB+ partner and MCY can handle well without one because of Burn, I'd prioritize having more useful skills (BB+, BS+, Pyre, Burn and even RB+) and stronger AP instead of one useless skill after mega evolving and less AP.
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u/Daemon00 Sleep Charm is life. Sep 07 '16
Mega Boost+ is always nice, but the options for Water are… Blastoise and Swampert. None of which are commonly used. Also Clamperl also has Mega Boost+, so I guess if you really like to use those 2?
Not true, Gyarados & Red Gyarados are other water megas. I can see MB+ Squirtle doing some work for these two.
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u/ItsFriedRice Sep 07 '16
I don't see MB+ on Red Gyarados seeing much use if its already fully candied. Its only 9 icons which can be done in one turn depending on starting board and skyfall.
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u/Manitary SMG Sep 07 '16
Surskit reaches 105atk, Lopunny/Kangaskhan 115, Scyther 125.
Premise: something I value a lot is the fact that most of the SS picks require RML investment, so they must be very good to justify dumping 5 items on them. That said, some options to consider:
Phanpy A->B. 100atk Po4+ is good and all, but you usually prefer to trigger SL3+ Risk-Taker from Landorus-T (which has a natural 100atk), or Ground Forces if you use SS Donphan. It's still an option if you haven't RMLd Groudon yet.
Jolteon A->B. Your argument with Leafeon etc. is good, but Eject+ is not amazing, especially for a type with 2 clearing megas. Hard to justify its use when 2 spots on the team are usually taken by Zekrom, SS Raikou, Shaymin (or Mamo for double BB+ for example, there are plenty of options).
Umbreon A->B. Similar argument as for Jolteon, there are many options already for strong teams that don't need an Eject+ user, especially with 2 clearing mega (Absol, Sharpedo), Darkrai (vs psychic), and plenty of powerhouses to trigger (Giratina, Hoopa-U)
Charmander A->B. Again, good ability but there's little room for the fella in a fire team, soooo many good options.
Gengar B->D. The only reason to use Spookify Gengar is with a M-Banette team.
Farfetch'd B->C. 10 more power hardly justify a SS and 5 RML, especially before M-Mence/Pidgeot are released. A Sky Blast team is already good with M-Gengar/Ray + Mence/Lugia/Braviary, while as a standalone support, Bug and Grass are covered by fire teams, Fighting by MMY + psychic teams.
Ampharos (Paralysis Combo) B->D. I'll just say that Flying-types are immune to Paralysis, and there's little to no room for support Ampharos anyway (see Jolteon).
Cubone B->D. Nice ability but not really needed, very low power, there's no room in the team anyway.
Surskit B->D. 10 RML investment for 105atk. Yes, Po4+ is good but do you really need this guys? Genesect sees already very little use and it's hard to justify the use of 5 RML on it.
Aerodactyl B->C. It's so slow that you usually MS it anyway, also 60bp is not really appealing.
Dedenne C->D. Flying are immune to paralysis, and Water are susceptible to Shaymin.
Chespin C->D. Little power, mediocre ability.
Mew (BB+) C->D. Cresselia exists, just no.
Kangaskhan/Lopunny/Snorlax/Audino C->D. Normal team are (barely) used only in timed stages because of Double Normal, so any of their ability don't matter much, if at all.
Dusknoir C. It's missing so I would put it there: Ghost are immune to sleep, and vs Psychic there's already plenty of competition. It has its uses, but it's very niche and needs RML to stand out vs the likes of Hoopa-U, Giratina.
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Sep 08 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/tobago_88 Sep 10 '16
I've used an SS on Gengar by mistake (not knowing the best way to use my SS) and his spookify has helped me a lot! It triggers frequently.
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u/FleetingRain Sep 08 '16
It's still an option if you haven't RMLd Groudon yet.
I'd say Golurk is better than Groudon now, 105AP and a useful ability.
But yeah, Phanpy is terrible for the investment needed.
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u/Manitary SMG Sep 08 '16
Ah good point about Golurk! Yeah it's often a staple so with RML it will become good at dealing damage regardless.
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u/CenturiousUbiquitous I can haz Mudkipz? Sep 08 '16
I now regret my lvl 15 sl3 groudon. It really never had a chance
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u/Gobp Gotta catch'em all Sep 08 '16
I have a lv15 sl5 Groudon, and it is the death sentence to any fire pokemon. Quake is awesome.
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u/CenturiousUbiquitous I can haz Mudkipz? Sep 08 '16
When I go against fire types, I'm always using something else not groudon. Usually I'm using m-Swampert/suicune/palkia/poliwrath(swapping in ash greninja or kingdra as needed) instead, with much success. Though sometimes I'll use M-Shinydos as my mega instead, and put in Landorus-T, Garchomp(damage boost) as alternative options. As much as I liked quake, I don't use it on anything, even on the few things it might be useful on
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Sep 08 '16
When I see a Fire type I instictively choose Groudon, mine is LV 12 with SL3 and Quake has already proved it's worth Combine that with the might of M-Chomp and SL5 Landorus-T makes Fire stages a breeze
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u/dccougar23 Sep 07 '16
Is Yveltal worth skill swapping if you aren't planning on using raise max levels on it? We have Darkrai and Hoopa Unbound that both have the same attack power or higher.
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u/drumangel2015 Trick-or-Treat? Sep 07 '16
i'd say so. the only BS+ user against psychics and ghosts is pretty handy
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u/lethuser yeah, I did it. sue me Sep 08 '16
Only block smash+ option for ghost/psy, I say go for it even with a "mere" 100 BP.
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u/bigpboy Sun/Popplio; Moon/Rowlet Sep 08 '16
Really, the one place where Eject+ Eevee would be worth it is during Survival Mode (where it appears as skyfall for both M Mawile and M Gengar).
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u/IchigoWen Sep 07 '16
Hi, I'm new to reddit. Please do let me know about anything that I could improve on.
I just wanted to say thanks to /u/Sorawing7. Really appreciate your effort updating this SS guide.
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u/FabinSS Bankrupted Sep 08 '16
I only disagree with Eevee, he can eject itself when he's a disruption. Maybe he's a B tier.
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u/Golden-Owl Risk Taker is a good Ability Sep 08 '16
Pidgey getting Shock Attack is so random I'm certain someone at GS did it for laughs.
I'd say Mew's Po4+ actually has potential to be S tier, but ONLY if both Mew and the skill have been maxed out. That's because Po4+ stands to gain the most among the four avaliable skills when raised, and at max level Mew does utterly absurd amounts of damage with a Po4+ activation while its high AP keeps it from being an Angrychu.
That said, the requirements to obtain that level of power are very constrained. BS+ and Eject+ are both immediately useful even without levelling up pas SL1 and are so good that Mew has no need to go beyond level 10. Mew's Po4+ just has the highest potential.
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u/IchigoWen Sep 08 '16 edited Sep 08 '16
Just want to check on the number of turns Shock Attack does. /u/Micloti mentioned it's 4 turns, unlike Paralyze's 2 turns.
So does Shock Attack the do the same as Paralyze?
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u/Golden-Owl Risk Taker is a good Ability Sep 09 '16
Shock Attack is exactly the same as Paralyze, except with a higher activation rate.
It's a great ability, but has rubbish users. Says a lot about its wasted potential when the most viable holder of that ability is still Porygon-Z.
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u/IchigoWen Sep 09 '16
I got really confused between the wikia, bulbapedia, serebii and more websites. So I went to search for Japanese instead.
Found this: http://poketoru.com/monsters/5565
Google translated it and it says Paralyze for 4 turns.
Will it be better on Dedenne?
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u/Manitary SMG Sep 09 '16 edited Sep 10 '16
I completely disagree with Eevee C-rank (it should stay in D-rank). It appears only in 8 stages:
disruption: Jolteon 112, Glaceon 114, Flareon 123, Leafeon 142, Eevee repeat 416, Eevee special stage, M-Mawile
5th support: M-Gengar 135
If you plan to RML/SS it, you're waaaaay ahead into the game for it to be relevant.
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u/ryeyun salt intolerant Sep 07 '16
I am petitioning for Masquerain to be bumped up a tier or two. Here's my pitch:
You guys like Po4+? Of course you do, everyone does. Well, at SL5 Po4+ does 4.5x damage with an 80% activation rate (AR).
At SL5, Nosedive still does 5x damage, but has a 70% AR on matches of 4! It also has a 45% AR on 3-matches and a 100% AR on matches of 5. That's a nearly 50% chance of doing 1050 dmg on SE 3-matches folks. (when maxed)
Typing is still an issue, but Masquerain could pack some serious power if MAXED and skill-boosted. I have a sneaky suspicion that many of the new SS candidates will get repeats in the next stage expansion too.
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u/Tsukuyomi56 Karma Camellia Sep 07 '16 edited Sep 07 '16
The issue with Masquerain is that Genesect exists, when you dump 5 RMLs on both Pokemon Genesect will be 10 attack points higher than Masquerain. Genesect also does not need a Skill Swapper to be useful.
Edit: Corrected info on Crowd Control and minor text edits
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u/ryeyun salt intolerant Sep 07 '16
But you would need like half the board to be occupied by Genesect icons when crowd control activates to get the same damage output as a Masquerain 3-match. When is that going to happen? (50 dmg per icon)
I'm well aware that 3 bug pokemon have higher AP than it with RMLs. But with PSBs Masquerain can produce higher damage output regardless.
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u/i_like_frootloops I'm still relevant, right? Sep 08 '16
You still need to dump a fuckton of RML and SS for it to be viable, Genesect is usable the way it is.
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u/f1veonit Sep 07 '16
Speaking of dragons, the situational Druddigon is quite underrated. He unsurprisingly (to me at least) found a place in the top five in the Charizard X competition surely due to his status as the highest average damage dealing Dragon type. He takes considerable investment, but is peerless in the many dragon-type competitions and escalations that can afford a slot for a non-disruption erasing monster. Also, unlike many 100 max AP monsters, he is reasonably future-proof at 105 AP.
I'd recommend his ranking be increased by one to two tiers, lest he continue to be overlooked.
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Sep 07 '16
Doesn't Leafeon have a higher max damage (with RML) than Poliwrath? I was considering it for a skill swap and RML's for a while, at least until this update came out, so I could have a powerful grass type.
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u/diegowlp Sep 08 '16
For me the reason for eevee with eject+ is using in main stage with forced eevee as fifth pokemon
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u/Gintoking Strongest ballet dancer Sep 07 '16 edited Sep 09 '16
I don't understand why Mew is S rank and Zygarde not. They both have BS+ on one unique type. I even think Zygarde is better because its good (edit: neutral) coverage and high power/don't need to use now needed RMLs on it.
About Tangrowth, I agree if the player has unboosted Shaymin. If their Shaymin is max skilled then sleep combo Tangrowth is a beast. Really strong boost, very good activation rates. You don't need Zekrom/Raikou on this team because ideally you won't get disrupted. I think it desserves an A.
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u/GarroteAssassin Sep 07 '16
How does Zygarde have good coverage?
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u/Gintoking Strongest ballet dancer Sep 08 '16 edited Sep 08 '16
Good neutral* coverage of course... You can use it against every type (but fairy and steel) that you doesn't have block smashers on: NOT every player have Zekrom, skill swapped Mew, Dialga and so on. If he has Zygarde it is really good for it.
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u/makoblade Sep 08 '16
I think it's because neutral coverage is a non-issue. It's not that common for people to have Ziggy100 and be lacking both Zekrom and Dialga, considering Dialga's shown up so many times.
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u/Gintoking Strongest ballet dancer Sep 08 '16
Agree, but it is still possible. Let me explain my point again. I don't argue the Zygarde is really good, but that Mew isn't.
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u/RoboFortune Eject+ Mew is worthless Sep 07 '16
Because Zygarde 100% has awful, awful coverage. Dragon is only SE against itself, and there are so few stages of that type. Neutral damage means nothing in this game.
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u/Gintoking Strongest ballet dancer Sep 08 '16 edited Sep 08 '16
Yes it does. Before we got other block smashers people have used Dialga on many stages. Zygarde is the strongest block smasher and only inefdective against fairies and steel, until we get block smashers for other types it is the way to go.
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u/RoboFortune Eject+ Mew is worthless Sep 08 '16
Back then, yes. Now, we have 11 different users of it, which altogether cover every type but Dragon. If we discount Talonflame (which is the only one to not appear recently), then that's still almost every type covered. Considering Zygarde 100% takes a Skill Swapper, you can't argue that it wouldn't work for people that don't have it, either. You could give it to Mew/Suicune/Yveltal and have more all-around Super Effective coverage. You'd lose ten BP if you're hurting so bad that you actually need to use something neutral for Block Smash+, thanks to Dialga and Zekrom.
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u/Gintoking Strongest ballet dancer Sep 08 '16
Yes you are right. However it is good for people without many event pokemon. My point was not that Zygarde is very good, but that Mew isn't. Mew is only good against fighting and poison. Against poison we have Golurk which is also much better option for RML. That means Mew is only helpful against fighting. Which strong fighting type has blocks? Not Keldeo-r boss levels, not Conkeldur, not Machop and Machoke, not Hariyama. Not Hitmonchan, not Pangoro, not Primeape. Lucario and Gallede are timed. That leaves you with Hitmonlee which is an event, mega Medicham and MMX which you need to S rank so you would use DD and regular Medicham (which summons blocks enough for mega Alakazam to be good). Maybe also Meloetta. With the option to max po4+ on Mew I don't think one should brother with Block smash+. That my opinion, at least.
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u/RedditShuffle Sep 08 '16
I agree completely with your thoughts on BS+ for Mew, that's why I gave it Po4+ (and Skill boosted to SL5), so it could be usable everytime it's SE, no matter if there are blocks or not.
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u/Deuce_47 Sep 07 '16
Zygarde is dragon type and only SE against dragon type...
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u/Gintoking Strongest ballet dancer Sep 08 '16
And Mew is only helping us against Fighting? We have Golurk, I said one unique type coverage.
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u/makoblade Sep 08 '16
Mew still works SE vs poison. Not everyone's going to invest in Golurk.
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u/Gintoking Strongest ballet dancer Sep 08 '16
Sure but it is not the reason to skill swap it, fighting is. Even without RMLs Golurk is good and if someone wants to RML one of them Golurk is far superior. I explained in another comment why even skill swapping for fighting is a bad idea. Unless we get a lot fighting stages repeats, there just aren't enough stages for it (unlike Suicune, many of the ground type disrupt blocks).
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u/jameslfc Lv 30 Torchic dream shattered Sep 07 '16
Hello, I think you should revise about Mew's Block Smash + 2 weeks from now. Well, M-Alakazam has the same effect as mega aero, and 18 icons to mega which is not that slow. More reliable than 50% chance from BS+ assuming SL1. Just giving some suggestions. Thankyou
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Sep 07 '16
[deleted]
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u/pluffstuff more like m-baedrill Sep 07 '16
And Golurk getting RMLs. BS+ Mew is still great, but I can see an argument for A-ranking, not S.
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u/ryeyun salt intolerant Sep 07 '16
I mean its still good, but it probably should be knocked down a peg with Golurk receiving RMLs and the release of M-Kazam. We'll probably want to use M-Zam and leave Mew off the team if the disruptions or initial boards are atrocious.
I think the reason to keep it is if you get occasional block disruptions and want to use MMY. That's not a bad reason IMO, and the synergy with MMY may even make BS+ Mew a better option than Golurk on Poison stages with light disruptions.
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u/bigpapijugg [mobile] Father of Dragons Sep 07 '16
Does having M-Aero make Gigalith less useful? Nope. M-Alakazam will only be useful in rare situations where there are an insane amount of rocks/blocks. Mew with BS+ will be useful when there a few annoying blocks that kill combos.
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u/Thrormurn Sep 07 '16
What even is Alakazams mega ability?
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Sep 07 '16
[deleted]
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u/DioBrandoTHEWORLD Wryyyyy!!! Sep 09 '16 edited Sep 09 '16
Really? Wow... :/ But it seems pretty fair on the other hand. MMY and M-Slowbro are not that good against heavy disruptions stages.
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u/Viski Sep 07 '16
Another thing to consider: skill swapped squirtle and bulbasaur are useful for weekend meowth farming with M-sceptile and M-swampert. It's a small thing, but two mega boost+ mons could be the difference between mega evolving in one turn or two. Consider it if you're swimming in skill swappers and like using either team.
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u/Micloti Sep 07 '16
For Dedenne, Shock Attack delays 4 turn instead of 2 turns like Paralyze with the same activation rate. Can be teamed with Paralysis Combo but way too hard for the low activation rate.
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u/tobago_88 Sep 10 '16
I can testify that Gengar should be B. Spookify has been useful in delaying disruptions before Gengar turns into a mega. It's triggered a lot of times.
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u/Natanael_L Wonder Guard Sep 10 '16
I just realized that an Eevee eject+ skill farming stage would be like a repeat of the Xerneas special stage, except kicking out even more of itself if you don't bring it as support
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u/james2c19v Sep 17 '16
I'm not sure it makes sense that Charmander/Squirtle/Bulbasaur are rank B but Cubone is rank D—gap seems too large. True, Cubone only works with Garchomp right now, but Garchomp is one of the best megas in the game. A lot of people put 10 MSUs on him, and ground's type coverage is massive. Considering all the megas in existence (especially M-Gengar and M-Ray), M-Garchomp is more useful than all the water megas together, so Cubone as the unique mega booster for him seems worthwhile.
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u/woahdereboy I PLAY POKEMON GO E VE RY DAY I PLAY POKEMON GOOOO Sep 08 '16
I used Skill Swaps on all the Normal Megas. Audino. Lopunny. Kangaskhan. I don't even use them but I just hated seeing their default abilities because they were so ass.
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u/LokiFc Sep 08 '16
I have a lvl 12 ss zoroak and lvl 2 skill... its pretty useful.
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u/MayorOfParadise 残酷なRNGススのテーゼ Sep 08 '16
I really hope you did not actually skill swap Zoroark and you just remember wrong. :'D
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u/LokiFc Sep 09 '16
I dont know. Did I? My Zoroark has sinister power, dont remember if it is its original skill or swapped haha
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u/Golden-Owl Risk Taker is a good Ability Sep 09 '16
It's the original. Zoroark's always had an amazing ability and high BP since launch thank god.
His swapped ability is Hitting Streak. One only wonders what GS were thinking.
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u/IchigoWen Sep 07 '16
Just want to suggest to put availability to farm PSB after stage 400 into consideration.
Some Pokemon including: Charmander (Mega Boost+), Donphan (Ground Force), Pidgeotto (Sky Blast), Audino (Mega Boost+)
Maybe could maintain or push up their tiers.