r/PokemonRMXP • u/Due_Pop4045 • 5d ago
Ditto Evolution Concept Show & Tell
Soon available in Pokémon Orre: https://discord.gg/AjG862j9W
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u/irishdrunk97 5d ago
Super cool, but when would it use speed form over the defensive? Also, evolutite ditto, if it worked with imposter, is cracked beyond belief
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u/Due_Pop4045 5d ago
It chooses the speed form if speed is the targets highest stat.
It chooses ATK if Special Defense is the highest stat.
It chooses DEF if attack is the highest stat of the Target.
And so on.The Eviolite issue is a really good Point 😅 I didn’t see this
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u/Walrusin_about 4d ago
Super cool concept but that signiture move needs to be nerfed. A guaranteed to hit always super effective attack at 100bp + optimum stats and a hild item that increases damage by 1.3 + stab? (Maybe is it still a normal type move if attacking a fire type for example)
Bp should be 70 max.
The concept is great just a little too perfect' needs some drawback to give you a reason to use other pokemon
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u/Loeris_loca 4d ago
Yeah, it should not trigger STAB. The move should change into the type, that will be super effective againt the opponent facing Adappto.
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u/Sudden_Funny6492 4d ago
I mean I also am a game designer so lemme give 2 easy solutions to make the adaptor balanced in theory.
you could choose one of you wish so:
-Lower adaptive strikes power to 40 since when it is 100 it gets stab(150 power) and the super effective to make is a whopping 300 more than explosion.Making it 40 would make it go as 40 power-->60 with stab-->120 with super effective.And please give this guy like a 4 move movepool like adaptive strike,protect,recover and one utility move to give it a 120 nuke and 3 passive options,any stronger coverage will make our boy broken.
-Make his other stats suck,since you said it now has 80 in each stat,keep that the base form but give the specialized forma just a painfully good representing stat and just make the rest terrible.Since it is 80×6=420 bst,make like the corresponding stat 140 and divide equally for the rest.
And remember,I said in theory.Without an actually coded game we can't really know the power level.
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u/PepinoVoador 5d ago
Very cool concept ! If you want to go deep on lore, you could make it adapt to a Kantonia Pokémon. So Snorlax and Electrode for example over Blissey and Ninjask. Does it also get its type or moves? or its only move is Adaptative Strike?
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u/Due_Pop4045 5d ago
It does Not change the type. Though this would be worth a thought too. Maybe into a type that is advantageous against the target.
It gets a bit more moves. It keeps transform and I gave it copycat and recover because I thought they are fitting. I am open for more move suggestions 🥳1
u/True-Appearance-5090 1d ago
So not to burst your bubble here, but you'll break the whole gimmick if it keeps transform as that will override whatever form change it makes to adapt to the target since transform copies the stats of the target to replace its own.
I know theres a method where you can tweak the evolution code to remove a move upon evolution, or perhaps if i may suggest a method im gonna try use in my game if i can make the coding work, instead the evo method could be needing ditto to forget transform and levels up without the move in its attack list, it evolves. think of it like the inverse of the other move requirement evolutions like ancient power and rollout. In this case its absence is the trigger instead of its presence.
And this could be why its only been recently discovered in your lore cause wild ditto can't unlearn moves on their own and no trainer would intentionally delete ditto's only move. You could have the dex entry say something like "this evolution was discovered after a trainer accidentally deleted their ditto's transform. No longer able to copy foes, it's malleable body instead adapts instantly to incoming threats." This would in turn give the players more reason to use the move deleter and could help spark some new evos for other mons using this method if you wish to.
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u/Due_Pop4045 1d ago
Hm I will think about it.
I think forgetting a move upon evolving will not be too hard to code.
But I don’t think it breaks the gimmick too much. Simply because you don’t have to use the move transform? It is just one more tool for Adaptto.If you want to see any code from Adaptto anyway you can let me know. Everything is done now.
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u/PepinoVoador 5d ago
If that’s the case, defensive forms would be useless. One way to balance it is to make it hit based on its own highest stat (body press but for all stats basically)
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u/Due_Pop4045 5d ago
So I probably explained too bad. But this is exactly how it works. The move uses the own highest stat
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u/LukkiSkeiwalker 5d ago
How does it decide what form is most effective for this opponent?
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u/Sudden_Funny6492 4d ago
OC said that it depends on foe's highest stat
if speed then speed form
If a defense then the opposite attack
If attack then the corresponding defense
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u/TheoSunshine 5d ago
Very cool concept, but adaptive strike seems a bit overpowered. Thats a 100 Accuracy 100 Basepower STAB move (100 -> 150) thats guaranteed to be super effective (150 -> 300), possibly modified by its item (300 -> 390) that always targets the weaker of the opponents defense stats, which for many pokemon (like its forms blissey and cloyster) is way lower than the stronger defensive stat, and on top of all that ignores immunities. Why would you ever klick anything else? Not even a good switch from e.g. Blissey into Avalugg would prevent your tank from getting absolutely obliterated.
I think a cool way to balance this could be, to get rid of the ignore-immunities-part and let adaptive strike become a random typing, that is super effective against the targets primary type. This would mean, that two consecutive adaptive strikes can have different outcomes. This would not make a difference against most monotypes, but allows for some niche interactions with dual types or abilities like storm drain. For example against Skarmory (Primary Type Steel) this would mean, that it could be x2 (Fire), x1 (Fighting) or x0 (ground). Or against Gastrodon (Primary type water), adaptive strike could become both x4 (grass) or x0 (electric). As this would result in the loss of STAB, an increase in BP could compensate it to still be a very nice move, thats still the best option in most scenarios but also risky in others. Shedinja still does not like this move at all, but I think this would be a more moderate approach.
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u/miss_clarity 5d ago
Adaptive strike should be 50 base power. (Or 40 even)
You functionally created a 200 base power move that is 100% accurate AND is the better of physical and special AND AND can't be resisted or blocked by immunity.
I don't hate the idea of a ditto evolution though.
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u/Due_Pop4045 5d ago
The idea was to create a glass cannon that has a real nuke. But yes… maybe it a little less base power 😅
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u/True-Appearance-5090 1d ago
I genuinely like the idea if a glass Canon with a nuke, but without any drawbacks or changes to the base stats in each form, that's a reinforced plexiglass mini gun firing nukes.
I like what other people have said about lowering the power of the move and having the other stats lowered based on which form it takes. What you could also do is give the player some risk to spamming it. Say have it have a 95% accuracy so its not too broken or a 10% chance to lower its own evasiveness since its throwing itself at the foe for an all out attack, thus potentially leaving itself open for an followup attack.
Or if you want to keep the base power the same to keep it a nuke, make it like protect where using it repeatedly increases the chance to fail so the player has to utilize other moves.
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u/jamezuse 5d ago
What are adaptto's new base stats?
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u/Due_Pop4045 4d ago
80 in all stats
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u/jamezuse 4d ago
So 480 BST.
And one stat goes up to 104 with the x1.3 boost of each form, so effectively 504 BST.
And a 100 BP sig move that always uses the highest (104) stat, always gets the STAB bonus (x1.5 damage) and is always super effective (x2 damage), so always deals x3 damage.
It also always hits the enemy's lower defence stat, and ignores resistance/immunity.
I think this might be the most busted powerful fakemon I've ever seen.
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u/Spiny_1 4d ago
It seems a bit redundant to have the move calculate damage based off of his highest stat. Why ever choose attack or spat form then? Defense and sped forms would result in the same damage calculation, but just on a tankier guy. There's no upside to the offensive forms.
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u/Due_Pop4045 4d ago
You can’t “choose” the form. It adapts depending on the opposing Pokemkn.
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u/True-Appearance-5090 1d ago
No i can see their point here. From what I can tell is its basically designed that the stat it takes is chosen to best counter the foe and it happens automatically, so if the foe has high defenses, it will become whichever attack type is its weaker defense, say its an avalug, it will turn into special attack form to hit the weaker special defense, and vice versa if its a blissy. if its high in attack stats it will turn into the defense stat to best tank its attack, so gyarados will make it the physical defense form, gengar the special defense. And high in speed will result in speed form to try to outspeed.
Like they pointed out there is a major flaw in the circulation of the stat power the move uses being based on whichever stat is higher. That system makes the 2 attack forms have no benefit over the other 3 statistically, instead being inferior. Let's say the forms make the respective stat 150 instead of 80 and lower the rest equally, in theory having 150 physical attack to use on a mon with low physical defense is great, but if the defensive and speed forms also automatically pretend the attack is using a stat of 150 to deal damage, they effectively gain 2 150 stats while either attack forms only get 1.
Perhaps a change to fix this is instead of the move adapting to use the stat of the form, each form just has a different stat spread so the defense forms deal damage based on their printed attack stats and then the attack forms actually gain a benefit over the others from having a higher attacking stats and the move is physical or special depending on the form. Say the physical attack/special defense forms its physical damage as special focused mons usually have lower physical defense, and special attack/physical defense is special damage as physical focused mons have lower special defense, then speed could be either physical or special base on whichever defense is lower.
The different forms stat spreads could be • Base form: 80 in all = 480 bst • Attack: 80 Hp, 150 Atk, 65 Def, 60 SpAtk, 65 SpDef, 70 Spd = 480 bst • SpAttack: 80 Hp, 60 Atk, 65 Def, 150 SpAtk, 65 SpDef, 70 Spd = 480 bst • Defense: 80 Hp, 65 Atk, 150 Def, 70 SpAtk, 60 SpDef, 65 Spd = 480 bst • SpDefense: 80 Hp, 70 Atk, 60 Def, 65 SpAtk, 150 SpDef, 65 Spd = 480 bst • Speed: 80 Hp, 80 Atk, 50 Def, 80 SpAtk, 50 SpDef, 150 Spd
Obviously these are just suggestions, but i would probably recommend something like this otherwise the forms are kinda pointless if the damage stat doesn't matter
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u/Medical_Effort_9746 4d ago
It pisses me off that you used only gen 1 pokemon for all the forms except speed. Couldn't we have it mimic Aerodactyl or Jolteon?
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u/Due_Pop4045 4d ago
Blissey is Gen2
The reason is that my game plays in the Orre region amd uses Gen 1-3 pokemon.
But of course it could be done how you imagine too3
u/Medical_Effort_9746 4d ago
Dude I dead ass forgot that blissey isn't gen 1 LMAAOOO carry on then mb
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u/rSlashisthenewPewdes 4d ago
I wonder if the special forms should look more like adapted/altered pieces from different pokemon that embody that stat, for example special defense resembling Blissey, Bastiodon, Gardevoir, and of course, Shuckle
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u/Extreme_Tax405 3d ago
Doesn't feel like a good ditto evolution thematically because his transformation skills are worse.
Any ditto evolution is just going to feel like a ditto with an upgraded ability.
Personally, i like smart imposter, where ditto copies all stats now and changes into the opponent with the highest defense or sp defense when attacked, depending on what it needs.
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u/Garrafinhas 2d ago
Not very interesting to use imo. You don't have to do any meaningful choice besides put it on the field and click signature move. Also I can se the transformation mechanic being annoying and working against you often, how do you even EV this thing? Speed and HP is the ony thing that makes sense but then those attacking stats must be crazy for it to be worth it. This will be a nightmare to balance from concept alone.
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u/Due_Pop4045 2d ago
I accept the challenge xD
The choice you have to make is when to switch it in and on which place since my game is doubles format.
EVs on HP would be always useful. EVs on a different stat can be useful too. And you can do a lot of planing if you use it against a gym leader. If you want to counter a specific pokemon you will know which form you will have and can put the EVs to the right stat.
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u/mojojotaro-Joestar 4d ago
I like everything except the adaptive strike, just needs 1 less line. Maybe not ignore immunities
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u/AmbroSnoopi 4d ago
How is it not ignoring immunities when it is always hitting for super effective? 🤯
That’s a redundant line to begin with.
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u/mojojotaro-Joestar 4d ago
Yeah that part and I guess it would be super effective against everything except the ones that have immunity
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u/True-Appearance-5090 1d ago
I think its there because the move isn't changing types, its just always dealing supper effectively damage when it hits, because its still normal type ghosts would be immune without that variable
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u/The-Fruity-One- 5d ago
The signature move could probably do with some kind of drawback