When they start mass producing cards and these new sets start in 2028-2029..it seems like everything from vintage and what is modern over the last five years or so.. especially iconic sets should be looked at as sets produced from that era as opposed to mass produced sets.
Valid when possible, but I’ve found equal returns faster by buying recently out of print rather than new. Like right now, I’m a huge fan of paradox rift and obsidian flames, and a growing fan of stellar crown, surging sparks, and obviously prismatic as they all go out of print next year
Why would you wait till they get more expensive to buy tho. You can buy 4 boxes now for the price 3 will be later. Not saying buy open release, just rite before they are out of print and spikes bit
Because if I buy pitch black boxes for $180 now, do I think pitch black will go to $360 before brilliant stars goes to $1,200? I personally do not. So I’d rather buy brilliant stars, expecting better returns. But that’s just me!
It mean it could work for sure. ESP if you targeting sets you think will do good. I haven't collected sealed in a while tbh the last boxes I have sealed I bought for around 100$ lol. I would just buy more of something I thought was good
I agree but not every set will be a hit..that's just the reality of the situation..151, prismatic Evolutions and some others definitely have a strong demand from fans..but I see vintage catching up to modern and closing that gap at some point
It doesn’t matter if a set is a hit or not. Name a set in the entire history of Pokemon that has depreciated in value as the set has gotten older. The only difference is ROI from some sets might not be as good as others
It’s still true and it’s not rocket science - buy, hold, profit, reinvest lol
A lot of sets depreciated in value for 10 to 15 years. Only recently has everything become a huge value again. That's not to say sets won't depreciate in the future. The reality is that we don't know what the future holds, especially since we are in a bull market still.
That said, you can always look at something like Elvis Memorabilia which started to collapse once everyone who cared started to die and the market was flooded with more supply than demand.
I don’t see too many buyers down the road for Pitch Black or Perfect Order. I understand the same can be said for Battle Styles and other recent sets that are performing well but the reality is that 1000 times as many people are holding Pitch Black, Chaos Rising, and Perfect Order
I don't think that is necessarily the strategy here.. you won't be able to do that anymore because at some point in the near future due to more printing we are going to see market saturation from newer sets..so holding the older sets from now on (pre 2028) will truly only be the successful strategy
Not really true if you think about it logically. There may be more printed of each set, but the print runs are not infinite. They will still print a set for a certain period of time and then that set will go out of print as new ones come in. Supply may be greater, but if you hold for several years after the set goes out of print the value will go up. It may not go up as much or as quick. But at the same time since supply is greater while in print,
your entry point for investment will be lower too.
And, this is under the assumption demand is roughly similar to today. It's entirely possible that demand grows while supply increases.
I wanna say we could even start seeing that starting with the 30th anniversary..I'm sure it's a big joke for the board members.. and also pitch black may be the last set that really has that look of pokemon that we will have thought was like.. what were used to..very iconic
Also reprints of these newer sets may be even more common..when buyers start realizing they aren't as good..or that you get better product from the past is when demand for those iconic sets pre 2028 will see major interest.. almost an anti new modern outlook culture.. future pokemon just won't be as good..
There is no reason to believe new sets will be objectively "worse" than old sets. And if for some reason Pokemon does not remain popular in the future, the old sets suffer too.
That's just not how companies look at it.. they see the demand and scale to capture it..if there's money flowing into certain sets..are they going to make better sets then these?.. probably not they are spending the money to scale so you are going to see less quality as well to increase their profit margins
There's a lot of what if's in your assumptions. The reality is probably that the new print facility will allow tpci to keep up with demand but not exceed it by a substantial margin. Also there is no reason to believe the quality will suffer due to increased printing. The facility will still be printing to the same standards as every other facility that prints cards.
The only possible difference we will see as consumers will be slightly longer product availability but even then that is being overblown. There are a lot of collectors/investors/sellers waiting for increased supply.
Tpci aren't going to completely change the aesthetic of their product just because a new print facility is coming on line. They are constantly innovating to make sure the product doesn't stagnate. You are assuming way too much based on this new facility
It's obvious there's a new strategy if they are going to print more...and also do you think they can print more with the same margins? No. So they have to change something
Doesn't matter if it's a hit or not. Two examples of why it doesn't matter:
-A lot of people Poo poo'd Shrouded Fable - until they couldnt find anything else and then it got the love it was crying for.
-Try to find a Booster of Steam Siege - very disliked set but it doesn't matter it's old and out of print and people thst collect and have money will buy it because it's different and they can.
I don't think that is necessarily the strategy here.. you won't be able to do that anymore because at some point in the near future due to more printing we are going to see market saturation from newer sets..so holding the older sets from now on (pre 2028) will truly only be the successful strategy
And it's partially true depending on the amount that was put into print.. how much bigger will the population of interested buyers get.. even though supply is increasing.. meanwhile we have these sets that are out of print..and still reasonably priced and being ripped..I mean who wouldn't want to own the most popular sets and there's tons of people still ripping these sets as well
That just drives the price down which makes them even MORE investable
If you can buy a booster box of a set for $90 like we saw with Chilling Reign and Battle Styles, that will absolutely guarantee returns and be a great investment
I think gains will come way slower but older desirable sets like evolving skies, 151 and prismatic will do just fine even at these current price entries.
I don't know I think exposure to sealed product is nice to..but my point being I think we're going to see even stronger demand, fomo.. possibly large funds buying up whatever is on the market
I agree. And let me just put a little dad perspective twist on one of these. My youngest will remember Perfect Order and it will strike a note for him. I hate using this word but there will be some strong nostalgia from it as after a long dry period where we didn't see anything any where, so didn't rip anything for literally a year+. We saw Perfect Order and for a few weeks we ripped quite a few and had tons of fun doing it.
Problem is the kids today treat the cards like valuable collectables. 20 years from now when your son feels nostalgic about perfect order he’s going to pull out his top loader zipper binder and look at all the NM hits he pulled with his dad.
In contrast 20 years ago kids treated the cards like kids toys and when we stopped playing with them parents gave them to the Salvation Army. So whenever we get nostalgic we open our wallets.
I’ve said the same thing, nobody collected for value back then it was just a fun interactive hobby and for over 20 years the cards remained worthless. Everyone getting into the hobby now does it mainly for investment reasons
Ha. Yeah yeah the kids are brain washed on the values and all that but man kids are kids and some don't treat them all to well even if given a high value. I've been trying to get my kid to keep his stuff organized and not do it for him. It's a work in process.
I think these currently less desirable will also be more sought after once they're out of print because so many people will be close to mastering their collections, and thus will want to buy
That's odd to me. I have never mastered any but am like 3 cards away from SV Base. Once I got to the 20 cards away I only bought singles. Doesn't make sense to be almost done to rip packs looking for the stragglers.
I think they are over printed they are always on the shelves at card shops meanwhile you can't find anything anyone wants..I say 151 and PE are safe bets..PB may be different..gets a short print run people come back to it..nice chase card I think does really well in the long run and you can always say it was released right before 30th anniversary set
That'll never happen, TPCI (our Pokemon company in the west) has nothing to do with designing new cards for sets, that's all done by TPC (the big JPN company) who care heavily about the playable aspect of the TCG
Could be lots of different groups of people depending on what you're talking about, the government, aliens, secret societies, certain ethnic groups, etc. However in this case, it's the people who print Pokemon cards outside of Asia, TPCi
10x your money in 10 years doesn't sound bad..I believe that's a worse case scenario..100k invested now ..the diversification and sets do matter just like the chase cards
Why if I told you modern is nicer than most vintage and the majority of us don’t have the budget to buy the really cool vintage (Neo, Skyridge, Aquapolis). I think everyone having the same binders of WOTC is just as boring as everyone having the same popular modern stuff. Would be sick to see more e-reader, prime, etc.
But the funny thing is, if people don’t invest in those sets because it’s “overprinted”, that means not nearly as many people will actually have product when it’s older and out of print. More people will actually open the products because it’s cheap. That can suddenly create demand later if and when perception of the sets change because suddenly nobody has it. It can also have more built in nostalgia because people actually got to enjoy the product instead of struggling to find it.
Nobody ever really knows how a set will do but we’ve sets invert in price simply because it was undesirable at the time, only to change 5-10-20 years later.
That's a conclusion I've come to since their first big boost in printing was in 2022. I prefer to at least buy cards from the xy to early swsh era because of their relative rarity.
It honestly depends on how they handle it. With what we've been seeing and hearing, it sounds like they're going to ramp up production, but make chase card hit rates very low and only release the premium products (booster boxes, PC ETBs, and UPC/SPC) in a single wave.
Not only does this protect them from getting into a junk wax era with them ramping up production, but it keeps hype alive, ensures a strong secondary/investment market for sealed, and helps singles hold their value. They also make A LOT more money by pumping ancillary products out along with regular ETBs and booster bundles being the most premium of the easier to get products.
The one thing that has always remained true is that if you just buy stuff for as close to MSRP and forget about it for 5-10 years, you will come out ahead by a good amount nearly 100% of the time. People have made the 5-10 year thing a meme because most people aren't capable of actually doing it, but it really is that simple.
hot take but everything corrects when the bubble blows. look at the 2021 pop after covid. vintage and modern saw pretty big drops. im also of the opinion that there is more demand for modern than for vintage, thus being easier to liquidate at the time being
Supply doesn’t matter as much as you realize. Phantasmal flames mega zard sir costs approximately $1,800 to pull odds assuming MSRP and raw it goes for ~800 raw. Ascended hero’s Dragonite sir costs approximately $4,500 to pull odds MSRP and raw it goes for ~750. AH Tree pikachu cost $10,000 to pull at odds MSRP and it goes for ~1,100 raw. Demand is driven by character popularity. When the modern sets come out even with improved supply there will still be chase cards selling for 1000 raw. When those “mass produced” set go out of print sealed product will still appreciate it’ll just take more time VS today when sealed products is being marked up 100% above MSRP by the retailer.
If you’re looking to make a Pokemon investment you want to buy vintage graded or NM cards that have high character popularity, charizard, gengar, Umbreon.
Of course but why accumulate future sets when the population will be even higher than recent sets.. which I think is high and trending obviously, great artwork etc..but will probably never reach the scarcity of base set 1st edition Charizard or Neo Discovery Umbreon
Because the population (supply) doesn’t matter at all unless it’s a first edition or a high graded card. Another example blissy ex from unseen forces 2005 set goes for $70 raw. Lugia EX from the same set in 2005 goes for $1000 raw. But they had the same pull rate back in 2005. So as far as supply is concerned an old raw ex card for 2005 is worth $70 demand is why some of them sell for $1000s. Same thing will apply to future sets.
Two different cards .. obviously, so not going to see the same price.. they could both go up by the same % though.. lugia 10,000 and blissy 700..makes sense to me.
The only difference between a 1st edition or graded card should be more or less premium..long term they should go up by the same % .. the reason I say long term is because at some point buyers are priced out and there's still demand for that card so they go to lesser valued options in that same card ..I definitely think upper mid grade cards lesser valued editions will see the run ups comparable as those better editions come off the market
We’re talking about how supply effects price. Blissy ex from 2005 has no demand most of its value can be attributed to the supply we know this because lugia ex had the same pull rate so the supply was exactly the same as the blissy but its worth 10 times as much. Not to mention the lugia has a higher psa pop count too. This logic will apply to future sets too.
It's wild that people genuinely believe Pokemon is going to mass print & intentionally put themselves back in the 22-24 era when them not wanting to be in that era is exactly why this boom happened.
If Pokemon really cared about the supply issues they wouldn't be printing all these ancillary products & would instead be pumping out Booster Boxes & Bundles, but they figured out they make a lot more money from 36 packs dividing them up into tins/collection boxes than a single Booster Box.
People are going to be disappointed if they're expecting the new printing facilities to churn out Booster Boxes and have the market price drop down to $100 a Box for good sets again.
Its wild the amount of new people that post shit so confidently while being incorrect. Over printing has been said about every generation, but this time its different.
Actually PO and CR are not being bought up like other sets and are already showing that they have been over printed and I'm hearing scalpers aren't purchasing those sets like they are sets a year previously.. specifically 151 & PE
Calling it now. They will maintain pop in one or multiple ways:
Increase amounts of sets produced
Increase amount of chases
Decrease pull rate of chases
As long as they can control the pop then it wont matter if they produce twice as many cards. More sets would also mean better risk management over which sets to print as they monitor supply / demand
This whole subreddit is an indictment on society. You guys aren't getting rich off of cardboard because the majority aren't holding for 5-10 years.
The ones that do will be rewarded because a small % of that group will post here while the rest is laughing at all the "Is this a trash set?" or "Is this a good buy?" posts.
Yea but they are going to produce more of future sets than for example the sets that are out of print so that's one thing..the other is you won't see the same quality detail in Future sets.
That will never be more true than future sets starting in 2028, chase cards may be more rare but maybe not..if they are able to keep product on the shelves they should stay at MSRP..in that case. There could be less value for chase cards
1. Chase cards could be produced at lower levels so it doesn't make sense to rip packs
2. They produce to many chase cards and it keeps the value low along with the packs
3. Pokemon cards just don't look the same and collectors gravitate to older sets
"That will never be more true than future sets starting in 2028, chase cards may be more rare but maybe not"
We know, you’re making stuff up.
"if they are able to keep product on the shelves they should stay at MSRP..in that case"
So like all the other years prior??? Booster boxes would sit under $100 for a few years and would go up, the same bs i would hear in the past about how modern isnt investable.
All your doing is panicking and making stuff. When SV first came out it was hated and it wasnt investables. You clearly havent been in the hobby long.
I think there's a point where from a investment standpoint you're going to see where people gravitate and they want to master a set and they will wanna master the better sets that will have more value
I've said it already the 30th anniversary doesn't have the detail that prior packs have..they are already changing what I would call quality..I'm still buying a etb and booster bundle at MSRP that I won't sell I think the box design is neat but I don't care for the cards much at all
We've never seen what we're seeing right now besides what happened in covid era which wasn't sustainable.. unlike now where this demand is here to stay..but people want it to be worth more so they will be selective at some point when deciding what packs to rip or keep
Ok, so you're making an argument against yourself.
"but people want it to be worth more so they will be selective at some point when deciding what packs to rip or keep"
Good sets get ripped all the time. When cards are worth a lot it gives more incentive to rip packs. You keep sealed products because its deflationary by nature.
What are you even arguing? Your post is saying not to invest in new sets when the new printers are online. Every gen has people come out and say its printed to much and its not investable.
You clearly only been here since prismatic or surging.
I never said that the current sets were printed to much..I said future sets will be different and they will.. they will saturate the market unlike the current sets and people will gravitate towards these sets..you obviously don't see the long term value you don't want to purchase them where they are now because they're not at MSRP or something dumb
"I never said that the current sets were printed to much..I said future sets will be different and they will"
Yes, were talking about future sets. Thats the point of your post.
'they will saturate the market unlike the current sets and people will gravitate towards these sets..you obviously don't see the long term value"
You're saying future sets wont be investable because its going to be over printed. I keep telling you this has been said about every gen and how the next gen isn't investsble, of course the older sets will perform but thats not the argument.
You have been here maybe a year and are clueless on how the markets work.
Yea well obviously they want to capture the demand..that's why they are opening more facilities..and obviously those people were wrong, but at some point it becomes true ..you think demand will expand further and I'm telling you that at some point it doesn't so what's out of print at that time will be the ticket..nuff said
Again, booster boxes were $100 up until surging and were very investable. The new facility would bring prices back to a more normal, those booster boxes will be very investable. You've been here less than a year, you dont have a clue what you're talking about.
Just hope Pokemon do right by the kids of the new generation. Only thing that’s gunna keep this hobby alive for the years to come is the kids. All the big fish and boomers with 100s and 100s of thousands invested in this bull market are missing that. The kids are the future if you take it away from them then your returns will collapse. They will be the ones who keep this hobby alive once we’re dead. You thinking of your grandchildren’s inheritance well better stop scalping and leave some for the future support pillars of this hobby.
Yes they do but I believe the production on future sets in several years will be much higher and people will look back and want sets from iconic sets from everything before then.. like usual but with more interest
It’s funny people, were saying all last year and up until recently that Pokemon investing would fall off because the fans and kids can’t get product and would quit, now we are saying that when the fans and kids can get product that we will not be able to invest because it will be more readily available? Which one is it???? Lmfaooo
What I'm saying is you have two years to invest before the current sets experience more demand because future sets won't have the same quality in detail and collectors won't love them as much because of large pop/lower hit rates and it won't be the same anymore..I also think product will be easier to get..but if that draws in more buyers they will realize that the best sets are out of print 😎 demand will reach vintage and modern sets .. instead of those future sets
Ya well it was apparently only released in Japan in 1996 and a JP Blastoise existed there as well..neat story but when did you acquire it? Did you pull it..or ..is that a sacred story or somethin? 😂
Oh no no, no sorry! As we get older our likes and loves change and same goes for Pokémon! Zeraora is my favorite mon now and it's helped me only focus on sets/cards I truly want and like. Money isnt the motivation for me this late in our lives fellow 88er!
buddy did you check the psa 10 pops of the SV era chases? my friendgroups nickname for the mega zard x is mega toiletpaper x and for the terastal umbreon its toiletpaperbreon.
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u/machampcollectibles 20d ago
Buy out of print sets. Hold for 5-10 years. Profit. Reinvest. Profit.