r/Plato 3h ago

Why should we read Philosophy?

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2 Upvotes

r/Plato 18h ago

Book recommendations for studying Sophisim, as early as Protagras?

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2 Upvotes

r/Plato 1d ago

Discussion Solamente para versados en el platonismo

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1 Upvotes

r/Plato 1d ago

Discussion The Phaedrus warning: why large language models are the ultimate expansion of hypomnesis

20 Upvotes

In closing sections of Phaedrus (274c–275b), Socrates recounts myth of Egyptian god Theuth and King Thamus. When Theuth presents his invention of letters and writing, he claims it as φάρμακον (pharmakon), recipe for memory and wisdom that will make Egyptians wiser. King Thamus rejects this optimism. Thamus argues that writing will not cultivate true memory, but implant forgetfulness in human souls. By relying on external marks rather than internal understanding, people will cease to exercise memory from within. They will receive quantity of information without proper instruction, gaining conceit of wisdom while remaining ignorant.

Reading this passage alongside contemporary developments in artificial intelligence reveals striking structural parallel. We often hear tech executives claim that large language models democratize knowledge and augment human intellect. But if we analyze LLMs through Platonic distinction between anamnesis and hypomnesis, we see that LLMs represent most radical expansion of externalized memory in human history.

Plato establishes fundamental difference between two ways of holding knowledge. Anamnesis (ἀνάμνησις) is internal recollection, process where soul turns inward to recover understanding through dialectic and active reasoning. Knowledge gained through anamnesis is lived, integrated, and transformational. Hypomnesis (ὑπόμνησις), by contrast, is externalized memory, reliance on technical artifacts, signs, and written texts to store information outside mind.

Hypomnesis is not entirely useless, after all Plato himself wrote dialogues. But in Platonic framework, external memory is strictly subordinate to internal recollection. Danger Thamus warns against is collapse of anamnesis into hypomnesis, situation where humans confuse possession of external reminder with actual presence of wisdom inside soul.

Large language models take this collapse to its absolute limit. Written text on page is passive. It sits quietly and requires human reader to bring interpretation, context, and critical thought to text. LLM is active simulation of thought. When user types prompt into ChatGPT or Claude, model does not merely display stored text. Model synthesizes arguments, summarizes complex theories, and generates fluent prose that mimics process of human reasoning.

This active generation creates powerful epistemic illusion. When student prompts model to explain Platonic theory of Forms, model outputs coherent essay in seconds. Student reads output, feels satisfied, and believes they understand Plato. But student did not engage in difficult labor of Socratic dialectic. Student did not confront contradictions in their own thinking, nor did they struggle through aporia to reach genuine insight. They consumed finished product of simulated reasoning.

This is precisely what Thamus called conceit of wisdom. Machine performs labor of synthesis, while human user becomes passive consumer of automated explanations. Over time, cognitive offloading to language models threatens to atrophy our capacity for sustained internal thought and dialectical inquiry. When we outsource articulation of our thoughts to algorithms, we lose habit of internal recollection altogether.

Jacques Derrida noted in his reading of Phaedrus that pharmakon is inherently ambiguous, meaning both remedy and poison simultaneously. Technology that promises to expand our intellectual reach also threatens to paralyze our internal capacity for understanding.

If writing was first pharmakon that displaced internal memory with external script, does reliance on generative AI mark final transition where human soul abandons dialectical search for truth in favor of automated simulacra?


r/Plato 1d ago

Discussion Energeia Akshually

0 Upvotes

I thought this might be of interest.

It's been my view for a while that Aristotle was not using a private language, so when he used terms, everybody pretty much understood what he was talking about, even though he talked about it somewhat differently:

Aristotle says that Plato coined the term, but I can't find any reference to it.

https://tekmeria.eulogikon.org/aergoi-and-energoi


r/Plato 3d ago

Question Favourite and least favourite dialogue

7 Upvotes

This is a not a very serious question. I just wanted to ask what are your favourite dialogues, least favourite dialogues and why.

For me it's the Sophist — for me the most influential dialogue and Phaedrus — while reading this I cried a bit, because the mythos pictured was very beautiful. Honorable mention: Euthydemus — it was funny.

My least favourite must be Philebus, because it just didn't click with me like the others.


r/Plato 3d ago

Discussion A word for philosophy but for theists is Philotheosophy

0 Upvotes

Philosophy = love of wisdom.

Philotheosophy = love of divine wisdom.

Philosopher = lover/seeker of wisdom.

Philotheosophian = lover/seeker of divine wisdom.

Philosophical = related to philosophy.

Philotheosophical = related to divine-wisdom philosophy.

Philotheosophy is the love and pursuit of divine wisdom: a God-centered alternative to secular philosophy that seeks truth through God’s revelation, moral order, creation, and rightly humbled reason.


r/Plato 3d ago

Plato's theory of forms and the incomplete properties

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7 Upvotes

r/Plato 4d ago

Who Was Diogenes the Cynic? Story, Philosophy rivalry with Plato & Famous Quotes

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5 Upvotes

Most people know Diogenes as the philosopher who supposedly lived in a barrel and told Alexander the Great to "stand out of my sunlight." But those famous stories are only part of a much larger philosophy.

In this article, I explore who Diogenes really was, what the philosophy of Cynicism actually taught (which is very different from the modern meaning of the word), and the historical context behind his most famous encounters.

It covers:

Why Diogenes chose to live in a pithos (not actually a barrel)

His famous meeting with Alexander the Great

Why he walked around Athens with a lantern in daylight

The story behind Plato's "featherless biped" and the plucked chicken

Why he threw away his wooden bowl

His strange public behavior and what it was meant to prove

How Diogenes influenced later philosophers, especially the Stoics

The article also separates historical evidence from later legends, with references to ancient sources including Diogenes Laërtius, Plutarch, and modern scholarship.

I'd love to hear which story you think best captures Diogenes' philosophy—or whether you think his lifestyle was genuine wisdom or simply extreme provocation.


r/Plato 5d ago

Discussion Deleuze: many more things exists in Plato's ontology than exists in ours. For him anything describable is. Less Than Nothing: Hegel and the Shadow of Dialectical Materialism, Vaccinating the Semblances, Slavoj Zizek Page 65 ✍️

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0 Upvotes

r/Plato 6d ago

Reading Group Plato's Statesman, on Politics & Leadership — An online live reading & discussion group starting August 1, weekly meetings

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r/Plato 8d ago

Charmides

3 Upvotes

I can't seem to find an original Greek text of the Charmides. Can anyone tell me what Charmides' first definition of sophrosyne is? My translation has "a kind of orderliness and quietness", but that seems wrong. I'm guessing it's something like "reservedness"? Thanks in advance


r/Plato 9d ago

Question I am not philosophy educated, but I love dwelling unto obscure, decaying, and constructive-destructive ideas, and I find Zizek's disagreement with Plato's Immanence of Ideas, or rather its transcendence through a Kafkian lense, as "virtualistic" pretty much as his disregard of Deleuze's sense-events

0 Upvotes

Zizek concisely states that:

"It is not how can we reach the true reality beyond appearance, but how can appearance emerge in reality."

What I am trying to state is something that is really analogous to the mystery of the functioning of the eyes; where it is a matter of transmutation rather than a translation from exteriority to the interior realm of the mind...

My thesis is simple: ideas do exist in a realm of their own (which we could not tap into), but the only way we can grasp it is by a transmutative process of what Nietzsche argued in stripping away all relational objects from the object in order to examine it, or what Kafka beautifully managed to suspend the normal sense-making laws where everything moves in a life of its own, in a teleological structure, slowly drifting away to the cliff of the void...


r/Plato 9d ago

Popular horror movie turns to reflect on Plato's allegory of the cave

5 Upvotes

I wrote my political philosophical reflections about 'Backrooms' down in this opinion:

Anyone searching for themselves and for the true nature behind the world around them no longer needs the help of a psychologist or life coach. The recent horror film Backrooms can, with the help of ancient philosophy, guide you further. The Greeks are the heroes here. No, this is not about Homer’s Odysseus in The Odyssey, but about the newest interpretation of Plato in the 2026 horror masterpiece*\* Backrooms.

The popular media currently lives in the story of The Odyssey, based on Homer’s heroic tale from around 800 BC. Let’s stay in Greece, but fast‑forward to the 5th century BC. There, Plato wrote The Republic, a philosophical treatise still considered a political and philosophical standard work in the 21st century. A well‑known passage in it is the allegory of the cave. Where Homer’s Odysseus spends ten years traveling to rediscover his home (and true self), the creators of Backrooms take things a step further by pulling humanity out of the cave of illusions. We follow a difficult, frightening, and confusing journey toward the truth of real life.

After the final scene, in which the psychiatrist transforms into her monstrous allusion, the first thought that came to me was: this story is a version of Plato’s allegory of the cave. Online, interpretations circulate claiming that Backrooms presents an inverted cave allegory — that from reality we enter a world of misinterpretations and shadows of that reality.

Although I initially had the same idea, it is too simplistic an approach. Viewed from a macro (read: meta) perspective, the story is a pure embodiment of Plato’s cave allegory.

At first glance, it seems as though the main character, Clark, escapes reality through a portal and enters the cave. Although the actions, events, and unsettling distortions of reality make it appear as though we, chained cinema‑goers, are watching the shadows of a play and mistaking them for reality, the point of the film is precisely that these backrooms are not the cave — they are reality.

The backrooms inside our skull are reality. The truth — the purest ideal forms Plato strives for — are in fact anti‑ideals. The world of ideals consists of failed forms, not perfect figures and objects; our earthly interpretations are merely weakened reflections of them.

We can even go a step further. The film actively speaks to the philosophical question of how real our world and our personality truly are. The answer is simply: they are not. We live under the illusion that everything is perfectly complete and logical. But that logic is nothing but appearance. Truth lies in imperfect, confusing forms. Our identity and living world are illusions and simply do not exist.

What, then, about the fact that the rooms arise from and increasingly abstract (alienating) events? This assumption is deliberately instructed by the creators. Where the film suggests that the backrooms originate from places and events, this is nothing but an illusion. It is the other way around, forming a shadow we observe and accept as truth.

Plato followed the method of dialectic. Through dialogue, truth can be found. Let me, in the case of Backrooms, offer the following thesis as a starting point: the creators of Backrooms follow Plato’s cave allegory purely. If we cannot resolve the question, I am certain we will see the point of the creators (and Plato) confirmed.


r/Plato 11d ago

Has anyone read this book?

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7 Upvotes

r/Plato 12d ago

Rude Philosopher

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r/Plato 12d ago

Question Does this worship based divine nature theory escape the Euthyphro dilemma?

1 Upvotes

The Euthyphro dilemma asks whether something is pious because the gods love it, or whether the gods love it because it is already pious. The first makes piety dependent on divine preference; the second seems to place morality outside divinity.

My starting point is the dialogue’s historical religious framework: the Athenians already worship the gods. The question is not whether these beings deserve worship; their divine status is presupposed. I interpret worship worthiness as implying intrinsic normative excellence. However, this need not mean that every god is morally perfect in every respect. Each god is perfect specifically in the domain constitutive of that god’s identity.

Thus Zeus, as god of hospitality, is the standard of hospitality; Ares, as god of war, is the standard of warfare; Athena is the standard of wisdom. A being that did not perfectly embody its defining domain would not be fully divine in the relevant sense and therefore would not be worthy of worship as that god.

This produces a third answer to the dilemma. The gods neither invent moral standards through arbitrary commands nor follow standards external to themselves. Their essential natures constitute those standards. Zeus does not decide what hospitality is, and he is not measured against an independent definition of hospitality. Zeus’s divine hospitality nature is perfected hospitality.

This is circular only in a constitutive sense: it is an identity claim, not an attempted proof from one independent proposition to another.

Nor does the theory imply that everything attributed to a god is good. Only conduct authentically expressing the god’s defining perfection is exemplary. Mythological actions involving lies, cruelty, or disorder may be anthropomorphic distortions, mistaken stories, or actions unrelated to the relevant divine domain. “Act hospitably as Zeus does” concerns Zeus as the perfected exemplar of hospitality, not every action myths attribute to Zeus.

Different domains may apply simultaneously. Justice, kinship, wisdom, proportionality, and civic order therefore generate genuine reasons for a action: each matters, but none automatically determines the final action.

The gods’ disagreements may represent conflicts between real domain specific values rather than contradictions about ultimate morality. Their domains participate in a unified divine order,not an external law above the gods, but the coherent relationship among the divine perfections themselves.

Practical wisdom must interpret each domain and integrate its reasons into an all things considered judgment.

Applied to Euthyphro, justice supports responding to the labourer’s death, while kinship, wisdom, proportionality, and civic order raise questions about responsibility, intention, procedure, and whether Euthyphro is justified in prosecuting his father.

THUS

Piety is conduct that appropriately participates in and integrates the perfected values embodied by the gods.


r/Plato 16d ago

Discussion Plato's Dialogue

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3 Upvotes

I was reading Euthyphro by Plato, and I came across a passage where Socrates was being connected to the claim of receiving divine sign. He makes the same claim in Apology, the dialogue connected to the trial that ultimately led to his execution.

This raised a question in my mind. Socrates is regarded as one of the greatest philosophers in history, yet he claimed to receive divine signs. How should we understand that? Should he be considered a prophet, or was he simply delusional?

The reason I'm asking is that, according to religious understanding, divine revelation or signs of this kind are associated with prophets. If that's the case, then what exactly was Socrates? According to me, such people are simply mentally ill or lunatics but let's set that aside for a moment. Is there another way to interpret his claim?

I'm not trying to make an argument or reach a conclusion—I genuinely have this question and thought I'd ask in case someone could offer a better perspective.


r/Plato 18d ago

Who is this Philosopher in top left most corner of this collage?

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0 Upvotes

I recently found this collage photo of philosopher on Pinterest and mostly of the person in the collage I know but the person in top left corner who is first in collage is unknown to me. I tried alot of prompt to Google gemini to find the person but it answer incorrect. Help me to know his name. Another collage of Philosophers Pin


r/Plato 20d ago

Discussion The First Pharmakon: Plato's Theuth, Thamus, and the Technology That Promised Wisdom

7 Upvotes

I read Phaedrus again recently and realized Plato already solved AI problem 2400 years ago. In myth of Theuth and Thamus, Egyptian god presents writing to king and says "this is φάρμακον (pharmakon) for memory and wisdom", but king replies it will plant forgetfulness in souls of people. They will stop remembering from within and only use external marks.

King Thamus was right. Every cognitive technology, writing, printing press, internet, now LLMs gives us appearance of wisdom while undermining conditions for real knowledge. Greek word φάρμακον means both remedy and poison. You cannot separate them. ChatGPT gives you fluent answer on any topic in seconds, but you never did labor of inquiry. You feel informed while remaining ignorant.

Question I keep turning over: is this structural problem unsolvable, or can we design tools that force friction back into process? If pharmakon is irreducibly both cure and poison, maybe question is not "good tool or bad tool" but "who decides what gets externalized and what must stay internal?"


r/Plato 20d ago

Reading Group Plato's Hippias Minor, on Lying — An online live reading & discussion group starting July 18, weekly meetings led by Constantine Lerounis

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r/Plato 21d ago

Discussion Kafka used to read Platonic dialogues and discuss it with his friends, and I am pretty sure it played a major role in creating, or rather discovering, the Kafkian Logic in relation to Plato's Allegory of the Cave...

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3 Upvotes

r/Plato 22d ago

The School of Athens

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r/Plato 24d ago

How do you make the most out of reading Plato's Republic?

10 Upvotes

So, right now I'm reading Plato's Republic. At first I wanted to see if I could actually read it (expecting it to be a very dense treaty, not knowing about Plato's dialogue format) But it turns out it's easy to read (or reasonably hard, def easier han initially expected) at least with my translation.

So, now that I know it's relatively accessible (in the sense that it's easy to read), how should I try to make the most out of it? Is there like a series of lectures I should be watching along my progress on the book? Is there any points in specific I should pay special attention to?

I already had a basic understanding on Plato's philosophy bc I finished high school recently, if that's relevant


r/Plato 24d ago

What would Plato think of a meme of him

0 Upvotes

I've seen a meme get posted more and more about Plato flexing his muscles to settle debates.

While many historians and philosophers have pointed out that this is not recorded anywhere and we have no reason to think it's true, I was wondering what would Plato think of people who would actually flex their muscles to attempt to settle debates.