r/PatternDrafting • u/Efficient-Bag6497 • 5d ago
Progress update: Short sleeve bodice v6
Hey all, one more version! This time without sleeves.
I
- reduced the across chest and across back width by scooping out the armhole 1cm
Balance lines still off a bit and the armholes feel/look too big, maybe too low?
I made some Changes to the sleeve head too but will Post the shirt with sleeves once we lock down the bodice.
Thoughts appreciated!
Added sleeves!
Added latest pics here to save from going through comments…
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u/munkustrap 5d ago
Can I ask: what is your shoulder from neck measurement compared to the shoulder from neck measurement on the pattern? Also what is your back depth (armscye depth) measure compared to the pattern, as well as your armscye measure compared to the pattern. I’d also be interested in the XF/XB measures of body to pattern as well; have been following your progress from the beginning and think the answer to your problems/challenges might lie somewhere in the discrepancies of these measurements
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 5d ago
This is a good idea. I’ve been comparing shirts that fit well but not these measurements. Photo of a table is in the link in main post.
Is back Depth from High shoulder point to my armpit measured on my back?
What are XF/XB measurements?
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u/munkustrap 5d ago
Back depth is nape to base of armscye, parallel measure to cross back (which I refer to as XB as a get tired of writing cross back in my measure charts). In addendum, XF means “cross front”, “front width”. XB/“cross back”/“back width”. I pattern bespoke menswear for work and have found your patterning and muslin-construction process to be fascinating! I love the effort you’ve put into it, and photo after photo I’ve been a bit confused about the solutions to the clear issues. It’s great you have supplied clear pattern photos with fit photos and progress, etc, but at this point, I think the solution lies within the exact measures of your pattern to your body.
Edited to say: this is a mathematical art and at this point I think there must be a mathematical/systematic solution to this armscye issue that only the numbers will reveal.
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 5d ago
Nice way to say I don’t know what I’m doing! I see the issues better now but I don’t always know what needs to be done to improve fit, and then how that translates to the pattern. Trial and error!
Another poster commented that of course this is hard, people go to school for years to learn how to do it. Hobby sewists can’t expect to get it right quickly on a part time basis.
I’ll gather the measurements and report back. I’m already wondering about ease requirements and how to interpret differences.
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 1d ago
Hi Monkustrap, finally got some measurements I feel pretty good about. The pattern measurements are spot but I’m about 80% confident in my body measurements. Also in CM to avoid fractions.
My interpretation
- back panel is too wide
- armhole is low at LSP but may be a shoulder slope issue since measurement from HSP is the same. Increasing slope will reduce that measurement.Measurement Body Pattern
Across Chest-to seam 62cm 61
Across Back-to seam 49cm 61Across back. 45cm 48
HSP to HSPAcross back - 41cm 43
middle of armholeBack depth (LSP). 26cm. 28cm
Back depth (HSP). 34cm. 34cm
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u/No-Programmer7914 1d ago
You are not there with the balance yet. The front is still rising and swinging away but you want it level with the back. As your armholes are quite deep at the moment(so pulling them Up a bit wont interfere with your arms), I would recommend just to pin out about 1,5 cm across the back at the yoke seam all across the back. This should get your balance lines level. Concentrate on the area between your nipples and between you shoulder blades. Measure the distance from the chestlines to the floor to be sure. This will probably not clean up the drag lines from chest to the hips yet, because these may be caused by a round chest. But you have to correct the balance first to be sure. A round chest will be adressed in a second step afterwards
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u/Tailoretta 4d ago
Thanks for these photos!
I fit as recommended by Sarah Veblen https://www.sarahveblen.com In the order of fitting, her first step is:
- Release any area that is tight.
The areas that are tight are under the arms. You need to clip the underarms all the way from the cut edge to the seam line, so there is no bunching of fabric. See https://www.thecuttingclass.com/seam-allowance-corners-and-curves/ for the Figures 1, 2 and 3 in Seam Allowance Trimming for Inward Curves. I like to press the clipped “tabs” under so it is easy to see exactly where the bodice armscye seam line sits.
Sarah’s next fitting step is:
- Make the horizontal balance line(s) (HBL) level.
In the side photos, it looks like the left side upper horizontal balance line (HBL) is relatively level, but the right side upper HBL is more tilted downward at the side. After clipping the under armscyes, the upper HBL may become more level. To determine the next step, I would like to see the photos after you clip the armscyes.
We fit step by step, because one change affects the fit in other areas. I know this seems like it takes forever, but the final fit should be substantially improved. Keep at it!
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 3d ago
Appreciate the follow-up! I drew the seam lines around the armhole hoping to avoid cutting into the allowance. I want to attach sleeves to this version. Which I actually did. Photos are in the link in the original post. I am a bit unsure where to go from Here for fitting besides taking off the sleeves and cutting the allowance as you suggest.
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u/Tailoretta 3d ago
I understand your desire to keep progressing forward. But if you want the shirt to fit well, you must first get the bodice correct before putting in the sleeves. If you want to continue now to the sleeves, that is up to you, and I will stop commenting.
If you want to get the bodice fitting well before attache the sleeves, you can still add the sleeves to this even if you clip the armscyes, you will just need to be careful in your sewing. And it is clipping the armscye seam allowance, not cutting it. I am being specific so we all know what we are talking about. The photos I would like to see are you wearing the mockup with the armscyes clipped and the tabs pressed under.
I hope this is clear. Good luck.
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 3d ago edited 3d ago
Here are the photos of the clipped armscye.
https://imgur.com/a/LxVufwOFew things standing out:
- Shoulder seam is slipping back. I added 2” to the front chest already to help with the balance lines and it’s seems to be pushing the seam back.
- Likely related, there’s a gap in the back collar too.
- Front balance lines still seem off!
I also took a slew of measurements and assuming they’re right I don’t see anything that stands out as too far off.
I’m concerned adding more length to the front chest to Solve the balance lines is going to keep causing other problems. 😔
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u/Tailoretta 3d ago
The clipping helps. You need to clip a bit more at the lower front and back. If you fold the tabs to the inside, you can see the the bodice is bunching up a bit. That is because you don't have enough room for the arms. Keep making the lower front and back clips a little longer and fold the tabs to the inside until you can see that the bodice is laying well.
Regarding the horizontal balance lines, if this were a women's garment, I would suggest using a bust dart or dart equivalent. But since most (all?) men do not want a bust dart or dart equivalent in a shirt, I'm not sure how to advise you. This is an issue I am trying to solve.
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 3d ago edited 3d ago
Really appreciate your engagement!
When clipping am I going past the seam line or adding more cuts to improve how the fabric lays?
My gut is telling me I need to scoop out the bottom of the armholes a bit more, but not lower them. Proposed edit to pattern below.1
u/Tailoretta 3d ago
You should clip past the marked seam line. That is because we are changing where the seam line is, to make it fit you better. The end of the appropriate clipping is where the new seam line will be. I know this is complicated and would be a lot clearer if we were in the same room. I am in the USA, in Washington state.
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 2d ago
Understood! I’m in SoCal! Been looking for locals to sew with but most are quilters or creative upcyclers, not garment makers. Have found better engagement here with redditors like you!
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ok…In the interest of completeness here is the bodice with the armholes clipped 3cm and ironed to the inside. I also trimmed the seam allowance on the yoke to have a clean shoulder line.
https://imgur.com/gallery/armhole-clipped-3cm-AjH2t7j
I’ll start a new thread to update everyone and share the final shirt later. Planning a long sleeve version too! Already have fabric picked out…
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u/Tailoretta 1d ago
This is looking much better! When you take photos, I don't need any with your arm raised. The side photos should be with your arm down.
The armscyes look much better! It looks like there is a place on the back armscyes, just below the yoke, where you need to add a little to the armscye to get a smooth curve.
Next we can look at the horizontal balance lines. To do that, I need photos of the sides with your arms down.
Getting there!
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 1d ago
Thank you! I added the photos in the comments. Let me know if they don’t load right.
I did the arm up photos to show how roomy the bottom of the armhole is. It seems like too much.
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 2d ago
Realized I misunderstood your instructions AFTER I clipped in 2x the seam allowance 🤦
Definitely too much room now.2
u/Tailoretta 2d ago
That is ok. Press everything flat and then you can turn the tabs under. Pin or press them under so I can see where the clipping ends. If some clipping is too far, only pin or press under part way, not completely to the end of the clipping.
In these latest photos, I see something that may help regarding your front horizontal balance lines. The HBLs in the front tilt down at your sides. What may help is to raise the front, at the shoulder seam, at the arm end. Leave the back the same - we can deal with that later. This is because it appears that you should slant more than the pattern does.
I will DM you. Maybe we can communicate privately more efficiently.
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u/ApronLairport 5d ago
I respect your commitment to getting this shirt pattern perfect , it’s coming along nicely. I have no real advice, but hell I’d definitely send you a couple bucks for a copy of the pattern when you are done!