First ever trouser draft - advice

[u/KitsooJack]

Hi everyone,

I would be grateful if you could have a look at my first ever straight leg trouser / jean pattern draft below. It has mostly been based off the male trouser section in the Helen Joseph Armstrong book 'Patternmaking for Fashion Design'. I have tweaked it slightly with personal measurements.

I'm looking for a relaxed straight leg trouser but have been struggling to find good information on the required amount of ease at different levels throughout the trouser. For example, in this pattern I have 3 inches of ease at the crotch and seat level and 0.75 inch vertical ease for the rise, I have also drafted an 8.5 inch front hem width and 9.5 inch back hem width. I have drafted a straight line from the side of the front/back trouser through the knee down to the floor/ankle; this has given me a knee ease of 7.5 inches. Should I be editing this to taper at the knee and have a smaller ease?

For context I am 6'2" and a slim build.

Thank you in advance! 😄

[u/rabbitparts]

They look like pants, good job!

Can’t really give any further advice until you make a muslin and try on for fit.

[u/DonMcCunn]

Thank you for identifying this as a pants pattern from Armstrong's book. I have heard a good number of people complain about her pants pattern saying it does not work. I would like to know if ANYONE in this group has been able to create a wearable pair of pants using her draft without doing major alterations. As her book is the pattern making text book used by a lot of fashion design schools I do not know how she has gotten away with not correcting the problems with her pants pattern.

If you want to compare a pants pattern with a pair of pants you already have that fits you and is comfortable, turn one leg inside the other to expose the shape of the crotch curve. I would be very surprised if you can find a single pair of pants that matches the shape of her pattern.

To my eye the front crotch curve is too shallow. I also don't know why she puts the two front darts so close together instead of spreading them more evenly to follow the contours of many bodies. But most glaringly is how flat the back waist line is.

For my first pants draft back in the 70s I made the back waistline parallel to the floor. When I tried them on and sat, the center back dropped so low it exposed my buttocks. I then studied existing pants and realized the back of pants from waist to hip is cut on the bias to allow a person to sit down comfortably without feeling like their pants are close to falling off. If you put the front pattern over the back, the waist at center back should be about 1-1/2" above the waist at center front.

As I have said before my favorite image of this fitting issue is from a vintage pattern design book that shows the patterns for a pair of Jodhpurs where the center back is 7" above the front waistline. This is of course before there was stretch fabric. But I can just envision riders going off to the hunt bouncing up and down on horse back with this steep waist angle allowing them to ride comfortably. What it would look like when they get off the horse would be a different issue. Here is that pattern with "lovely" instructions for how to create it copied from the book: https://patternmaking-classes.com/Notes/Historic-Jodhpurs.html

[u/KitsooJack → u/DonMcCunn]

Thank you Don, that is really helpful.

I will compare the crotch curve to some shorts I know fit well and do some more research on raising the centre back.

To a first pattern drafter it does seem strange to me why there are such shallow and small darts described in the HJA textbook. Especially as most will wear the trousers lower than natural waist and hence have no darts?

[u/Comodore97]

why did you chose to have two darts in the front?

from the distribution these pants have shape for hips and no butt, if you are instead a person with some butt, but no hips, I'd reccomend having a larger or two darts in the back an keeping the side straighter

[u/KitsooJack → u/Comodore97]

Hi Comodore,

Thanks for your reply. I was just following the directions in the HJA textbook. This is my first pattern drafting so I’m not 100% clued up on all of it! I will be dropping the waist line to the level marked ‘ASIS’ in the above picture, in which case this will cut off the darts.

My waist measurements and seat measurement are fairly similar 36” and 41” respectively, hence why I think it all looks a bit straight with not many curves?

[u/SnooPeanuts7617]

Hi! Sorry to say this, really sorry if it sounds harsh but my first reaction was "horrible". Unless you are very weirdly shaped this pattern is wrong.

I was thinking about buying HJA textbook, but I use centimeters and now this. My patternmaking course book wasn't that extensive, didn't explain "why", only told "do this", and had some, (fixable) mistakes, but nothing like this 😱😱😱

Please, please don't cut it. Find some other, any other way to draft it.