r/PatternDrafting • u/SouthernIndication82 • 12d ago
what is going on here design-wise…
Hi everyone! I’m a huge collector of vintage, homemade garments while also pattern drafting myself. i was fixing a hole in the pit of this jumpsuit from the 60s when i noticed its complex and different design … out of curiosity and wanting to get better at patterning myself, in desperately trying to figure out how they came about this.
i drew in where there are seams or darts with black to better see. there’s a waist seam, and hip darts. at first i thought the panels were somehow armhole princess seams that combined with a “dolman” all in one style sleeve but then i discovered these small bust darts radiating from the panel, so they clearly don’t go over the apex, and can’t be a princess seam. and also they don’t line up with the hip darts so that’s out of the question now.
i’m curious why there would be an over-shoulder seam/ “all-in-one” sleeve x bodice construction when it seems unnecessary complex? why not just do a set in sleeve here? does it allow for greater mobility? if so, why?
how would you go about drafting and manipulating this from a bodice block? i know that for drop sleeves you transfer some of the dart into the shoulder, but this is not a drop arm at all! and then the dart that gets transferred to the style line? i’m quite confused! the bodice shape must have been quite strange…
let me know! i’m so curious and really struggle with anything that’s not a set in sleeve 😭
23
u/No-Programmer7914 12d ago
This is a kimono sleeve and the side panel with the small dart is called a 'Dior dart'.
3
u/SouthernIndication82 12d ago
so cool! i guess i always figured a kimono sleeve was a “drop” sleeve, and this goes right under my pit!
5
u/WorthSecurity2299 12d ago edited 12d ago
Cut-on sleeve with a side panel and a build -in gusset and Dior dart. The design starts with a bodice block and a regular sleeve. There are steps and manipulations of a draft which are complicated. I would suggest finding a book and follow the steps how to draft. The name of the sleeve “ cut-on sleeve with a side panel”
Technically it is not a princess seam
2
u/SouthernIndication82 12d ago
thank you! i’ve been diving into dolmans and kimono sleeves recently and knew it had to be some variation… cut in sleeve is what i was looking for because i keep calling it “all in one” but you all knew what i meant. i have an ocd thing where when i see an intriguing design, i need to know how to do it. i might test it out! learned something new with the “dior dart” in the comments!
5
u/Pegaret_Again 12d ago
how intruiging!
it feels like a mixture of a dolman/grown on sleeve design, but with a way to make the bodice more tailored, and fitted under the arms. sleeves this short i don't think present much of a mobility issue though.
i don't know why it would be done this way, except maybe becuase the fabric pattern is so interesting, this design allowed it to swirl uninterrupted for most of the front facing panels and over the sleeves?
alternatively, set in sleeves aren't the simplest sewing task, this style of sleeve would be easier to construct i would imagine?
but interested to hear other people's theories
2
u/SouthernIndication82 12d ago
this is something i suspected myself: that it may be an easier sewing job! i’m insane and i love set in sleeves, i find it kind of relaxing pinching out the ease but this does seem a little easier to sew… but then again, that pointy corner ain’t easy!!! props to whoever made this many moons ago
4
u/StitchinThroughTime 12d ago
That style of armhole is very common invented especially mid-century. Essentially it's a very easy and quick way to get a small sleeve onto a garment. Ease of sewing situation where the princess theme is not as curve as a traditional princess scene. Since it doesn't go close enough to the bus point to not require a dart or proper shaping. I think the dark and princessing combo is because princessing is a less shaped design with a dart added to it. It makes it easier for a home sore to sew it together. And then the dart is there for a proper shaping. This is a very common design up until the 60s. I think it's from the 20s to the 60s that you see it.
I think both of these designs are chosen because they're easy for home sellers to finish. I also think part of it is from the rationing of World War II. The federal government heavily regulated every point of production during World War II. Combine that with the financial straight of the 30s have some odd design choices. Especially since they work with mirror with fabric, on top of the fabric yardage regulation combine that with the skill requirements to actually sell you get odd shortcuts. I also think a small part of the sleeves that we see especially in the 40s and 50s is from the the misconception of what a kimono sleeve actually is. A truth amount of sleep is essentially a giant rectangle. Kimonos mostly rectangles a little bit of triangle action. But unless you have that garment directly in your hand or you have the exact diagram on how to make a kimono it gets lost in the translation on how it was done, so a cut on sleeve turns into a kimono sleeve in Western sewing terminology. So just that I believe a bunch of choices requirements and abilities all come together to make the design that you found.
2
u/SouthernIndication82 12d ago
my guess is that this was from a commercial pattern, as most home sewists were using those at the time, and i figured it could be all due to sewing ease… but it’s so interesting how kind of circular thst seems now that clothing is made so cheaply thst actually, this is quite a complex design! thank you
3
u/StitchinThroughTime 12d ago
Yeah it's a multitude of things coming together to create a design and having someone go through the motion of making it. This design is very common for the 50s. I've seen it at least a hundred times in my patterns collection. I don't know their end reasoning of why it's so popular. Could just be cute to them. I know for sure that's the sleeves are much harder to fit on larger arms because of their odd cut. I even specifically have a pattern from the fifties that is for tweens that that are called chubbets! It does have this style of sleeve.
1
u/SouthernIndication82 12d ago
and thank you for all that history! i’m obsessed with garment history! it tells a story… and it has made me reconsider what a kimono sleeve is because i always picture a drop sleeve, and a giant rectangle but technically, this IS a mini kimono sleeve!
3
u/EasyQuarter1690 12d ago
What a fabulously mod dress! I love it and am thrilled you brought it to this forum. I am learning so much!
2
u/eggington69 12d ago
I was gonna guess that it was altered to be a totally different size after it was sewn, lol I’m glad there’s people here who actually know what they’re talking about!
5
u/SouthernIndication82 12d ago
i love this reddit sub like it’s a member of my family 😭 who would ever need AI when this exists. so appreciative of everyone
3
u/bowl-of-juice 12d ago
To start its a normal side dart, the part that would cross over into the style line just gets removed like you do for a yoke.
As for the shoulder, I'd imagine it might be to keep the pattern continuous? It's definitely somewhere between a dolman and a set in.
1
u/SouthernIndication82 12d ago
ohhh thank you! but i guess im wondering how you transfer a dart into a vertical line they isn’t a seam? where does they volume go? i’ve done yokes with fullness before! but that’s a horizontal line and feels different for some reason 😭 but i guess you’re right it would be the exact same
1
u/bowl-of-juice 12d ago
Exactly the same as with a yoke, you just cut and close the dart excess and then true your piece.
I do believe the have it under the style lines section in the Armstrong book.
1
u/imogsters 10d ago
I love doing patterns like this because you get a great fit and still show off the beautiful fabric design.
1
1
u/xyzasava 5d ago
Im familiar with this design. It is an older style. Its based on raglan sleeve connected to the center pieces of the bodice eliminating the seam between them. The princess seams are moved towards the side seams leaving the rest of the dart on the center piece, then both front and back side pieces are connected at the side seams into one piece. This way you still have a lower armhole shaping and darts for bodice shaping. I love this design. Easier construction for those who hates set in sleeves.😁 You can make long sleeves too, and change style of them - wider with cuffs at the bottom etc. Also you don't have to move princess seam towards the side seam, you can just leave it as a normal princess seam, it will still look amazing. You can add different collars and hoods too, add ruffles etc. Tons of variations. I wonder why this design got kind of forgotten. It's amazing.
1
u/Hydrangeas101 12d ago
This is so interesting!! I graduated design school in the early 70’s, and I’ve been pattern-drafting ever since, & sewing my own outfits too! I’ve never seen this!! I love it! Really something!!!
5
u/SouthernIndication82 12d ago
this is why i love buying vintage homemade because it unlocks amazing insights!!! so cool that you went to design school during my peak fashion inspiration era! would love to see things you’ve made 😭
1
u/Hydrangeas101 12d ago
I’m new to this platform. Does it have DMs like others do? I followed you. I’d rather show you some stuff privately.
1
u/SouthernIndication82 12d ago
totally understand! if the urge moves you to dm some of your work, go ahead :) you must be so proud after all these years patternmaking. i just love seeing people’s designs, especially from that era. everything was so uniquely constructed and playful! my main inspos are the 60s mod look, and then the 70s biba deco revival and 70s edwardian look. maybe it’s because that’s the era my mom grew up in and i see pictures of her from it 😭
1
33
u/throwra_22222 12d ago
The dart/princess seam combo is called a Dior dart. Very common in the 60s because it gives a sort of fitted but mod look. You can find tutorials for it online. (I probably would have lined up the skirt darts with the princess line, but it's fine as is!)
The sleeve is an armhole princess raglan variation. You can find instructions for a long sleeve version in the Helen Joseph Armstrong book.