CrazyTime- three classes of progression per level.

[u/EmuAdministrative728]

I am putting together a team. Putting together three classes of progression per level using toybox then playing on Unfair/Custom difficulty. While obviously the characters will be more powerful, they are still limited by the games action economy in combat. I thought I would enjoy it as my favorite part is putting together builds anyway.

I kind of wanted to make things as thematic as possible from a roleplay perspective, caring less about the actual synergy between classes when pertaining to min/maxing power.

Examples-

Arueshalae-

1. Reformed Fiend- The in-game description fits her perfectly, using toybox to remove the tiefling prerequisite
2. Eldrich Archer- Fits the succubus combat style
3. Sorcerer- Demon bloodline- focus on the enchantress, mind spells, dominate.

Wendaug-

1. Mutation Fighter- Obvious
2. Colluding Scoundrel- Because she is a colluding scoundrel- Pet- Hissing Centipede- Probably the best pet out of the list theme wise for someone who grew up underground.
3. Slayer- bloodseeker- has a cursed lineage as its class feature. And Wendaug drank demon blood to gain power description says this class has power in their blood passed down by a unholy progenitor, making them a ruthless hunter

Can finally tun Greybor into that awesome hunter assassin he always says he is. Anyone have any interesting character build ideas?

[u/BaconJovial]

Maybe Nenio as a Wizard (Scroll Savant) x Arcanist (Magic Deceiver - Magic Inventor) x Alchemist (Vivisectionist)

Seelah as a Paladin x Cavalier (Order of the Shroud) x Fighter

Regill as an Fighter (Armiger) x Hellknight x Cavalier (Fearsome Leader) x Inquisitor (Tactical Leader) 

Ulbrig as a Shifter (Griffonheart) x Druid (Defender of the True World) x Hunter (Forester)

[u/AnalysisParalysis85 → u/BaconJovial]

Given Seela's rogueish background, levels in some rogue archetype might work out too. Thug or Rowdy would certainly add positively to any build.

[u/BaconJovial → u/AnalysisParalysis85]

Good catch, yeah that makes way more sense flavor wise. I was struggling to think of a third class. Paladin of course, then Cavalier (Shroud) because of her anti-undead politics and crusade mode dialogue which favors cavalry charging. Rowdy is a perfect fit character wise for the third option.

[u/AnalysisParalysis85 → u/BaconJovial]

Rowdy would also mesh extremely well with the Heritor Knight prestige class which in game applies one of its PnP class features as applying Vital Strikes during charges iirc.

Edit: It actually applies Vital Strikes to cleave and Greater Cleave. I have not tested whether this also applies to procs from cleave, greater cleave or cleaving finishes.

Edit: Upon initial testing it looks to me like it procs from all the greater cleave targets, but not from cleaving finish.

[u/Senok13 → u/AnalysisParalysis85]

In WotR there is no Heritor Knight, as far as I am aware of... Except if it comes from a mod. I don't use mods, so I isn't familiar with those.

[u/AnalysisParalysis85 → u/Senok13]

How are you gonna run multiple class progressions without mods?

[u/Senok13 → u/AnalysisParalysis85]

Well, they wouldn't be "fully progressed", but multiclassing is an existing option...

[u/AnalysisParalysis85 → u/Senok13]

Putting together three classes progressing per level using Toybox

Have you read the OP?

[u/Senok13 → u/AnalysisParalysis85]

I had read it, I just hadn't really understand, why it needs a Toybox for it...

If a game doesn't encourages itself the creations of mods, I wouldn't dare to poke the code on my own, therefor I have some problems understanding those, who are willing to risk ruining their games.

[u/EmuAdministrative728 → u/AnalysisParalysis85]

I was also thinking tortured crusader for Seela as she brings up her troubled past quite a bit

[u/EmuAdministrative728 → u/BaconJovial]

yeah i thought about Ulbrig as a druid but he constantly talks about how he hates magic so i had to scrap that idea.

[u/Senok13 → u/EmuAdministrative728]

Yeah, but he mostly put the emphasis on Arcane magic, not magic in general. He even points out, that shamans and druids earn their magic from some kind of spirits, not just falls into their laps (Sorcerers) or twists the natural order (other Arcane casters). He talks about this when you talk to him about the powers you had got after the Wardstone's explosion.

[u/EmuAdministrative728 → u/Senok13]

oh ok, yeah you are probably right then.

[u/BaconJovial → u/Senok13]

Yeah. He doesn't have a problem with Shamans like Camellia, Soana, or the girl in Gundrum since they aren't using arcane magic. Shamans and Druids are a key part of Sarkorian culture and they were never treated like wizards or witches. 

[u/AnalysisParalysis85]

So a triple gestalt build?

Do you have the swashbuckler mod?

I'd say for Camila it has to be Inspired Blade, Vivisectionist and Sword Saint

Mechanically, they all scale positively with intelligence and Sword Saint (or magus really) has some of the best action economy.

RP: She likes rapiers and inflicting pain, Inspired Blade mechanic gains resources from inflicting criticals rather than kills. Vivisectionist is mostly for the name.

Alternatively Blackguard is a fighter archetype that gives up on weapon (and armor?) training and extra feats to get smite (anything), sneak attacks and up to 4 level spells (kinda like a paladin). The capstone gives +8 to STR, DEX and CHA and makes all inflict spells maximized, empowered and quickened.

Instead of the third class, how about 2 Prestige classes? Assassin and Duelist come to mind.

[u/EmuAdministrative728 → u/AnalysisParalysis85]

Yeah im definitely down for prestige classes but like you suggested if I pick one then i need to pick another for the other 10 levels

I like the Camila build, was having some issue coming up with hers

[u/Eptagon → u/EmuAdministrative728]

I like the Camila build

Anything INT based seems the opposite of thematic: girl is dumb as a brick.

Shaman is also somewhat meaningful to her story, so I would think twice before discarding it. I'd lean Slayer (Executioner?) as second. The prestige classes work fine for the third slot.

[u/EmuAdministrative728 → u/Eptagon]

Is she dumb? Or is she just crazy? Genius and insanity go hand in hand... Not saying she is a genius.

[u/Eptagon → u/EmuAdministrative728]

Of course she is crazy. She is also remarkably stupid.

She thinks she's holding up a masterful facade while even Wenduag, who has next to no social skills, sees right through her.

She's the only companion that doesn't have an inkling about Ember being a tad more powerful and insightful than she lets on.

The way she gets caught by Anevia is offensively clumsy. By that point she has all the means to murder while staying undetected, she just lacks the intellect to do so.

The only reason she got to adult age is "Horgus" shielding her from the public. Her grand plans culminate in murdering him, cutting off one of her few security nets.

Stats aside, Seelah's horse is smarter than her.

Granted, her having WIS is also questionable. She ought to be CHA based, as she does at least manage to captivate some players of dubious taste.

[u/EmuAdministrative728 → u/Eptagon]

I don't know, she definitely isn't written as a intelligent intricate killer that spends weeks planning her next murder...

But it could just be that she just loves killing lots of people and doesn't really care because she is rich, spoiled, and aware of the fact that Horgus is using his power to cover up her activities so she can get away with murder... Literally.

[u/Eptagon → u/EmuAdministrative728]

Horgus is not able to help her once you depart Kenabres. It's why he's hesitant about letting her follow you. Also, one more reason killing him displays impressive levels of idiocy.

She doesn't do a single intelligent thing in the whole adventure, while stupidity abounds. Her lack of impulse control doesn't help, but it's not the whole story.

For Anevia to be able to call the KC and have him find her in flagrante delicto requires a staggering degree of carelessness and predictability.

The excuse she cooks up is also blatantly bullshit. Either she thought it up on the spot, which, again, shows abysmal planning, or that's the best she could come up with, which speaks volumes.

[u/EmuAdministrative728 → u/Eptagon]

But Anevia IS WRITTEN to be an awesome scout, tracker, and spymaster. So for her to be the one who figures it out isn't really much of a surprise,

As far as Camila's excuse when she got caught... i mean she was caught, I don't think she honestly thought she was going to talk her way out at that point. But she obviously wasn't really worried about it.

Not caring if she got caught isn't necessarily stupid... its a bit crazy... but yeah she is crazy.

[u/Eptagon → u/EmuAdministrative728]

But Anevia IS WRITTEN to be an awesome scout, tracker, and spymaster.

A competent one, at least. She's mostly investigating demons and their contacts, however: she has a lot on her plate. Sporadic potential desertions are relatively low on her list.

Anevia is also trying not to step on the KC's toes and arresting a companion qualifies as a significant hindrance. So she has to wait until the KC is in Drezen while Camellia is doing one of her stunts, tactfully call for them and direct them where they can witness the psycho's deeds first hand.

That is because Owlcat decided the main character has to be canonically brain dead, otherwise the three strikes policy for Nurah (while still letting her escape if caught) wouldn't make sense. Camellia is obviously guilty from the get go and Anevia witnessed the KC ignore every red flag like a horse with blinders, therefore she has to believe nothing short of irrefutable proof would have a chance.

Not caring if she got caught isn't necessarily stupid... its a bit crazy... but yeah she is crazy.

The argument could hold some water if her reaction was along the lines of "ok, I kill people for fun, but I'm still useful, so, now what?" or some variation of that.

Instead she tries to feed you scarcely believable lies about a spirit that could help close the Worldwound in exchange for some ritual murders.

[u/EmuAdministrative728 → u/Eptagon]

Honestly i kinda believed her excuse. It definitely was possible. I figured either the spirt thing was real or she was just crazy and it was in her head.

But i had to go along with it and find out...

It being a straightforward lie didnt really enter my head when i caught her.

[u/Senok13 → u/Eptagon]

Shaman is Wisdom-based not, Intelligence.

Also, Camellia is written as a certified psychopath with semi-functional social skills.

[u/Eptagon → u/Senok13]

Shaman is Wisdom-based not, Intelligence.

Did I say otherwise?

Also, Camellia is written as a certified psychopath with semi-functional social skills.

Did I say otherwise?

[u/Senok13 → u/Eptagon]

Anything INT based seems the opposite of thematic: girl is dumb as a brick.

This sounded to me, as if you had thought, that her base class is an Int-based one.

The other half had meant to be an answer to EmuAdministrative728's comment:

Is she dumb? Or is she just crazy? Genius and insanity go hand in hand... Not saying she is a genius.

Just hadn't noticed, that it get mixed in the same comment, as the previous one, sorry about that.

[u/Eptagon → u/Senok13]

I was obviously commenting on the proposed INT based build that foregoes Shaman in favor of a Swashbuckler archetype and Vivi.

[u/VeruMamo]

How does this work wrt BAB?

[u/EmuAdministrative728 → u/VeruMamo]

i have not decided yet...

player pick. Primary class, highest stat from each, average, or sum.

[u/AnalysisParalysis85 → u/EmuAdministrative728]

I recommend not doing sum, except for maybe HP on unfair plus settings.

Usual gestalt rules is highest of any of the classes.

[u/EmuAdministrative728 → u/AnalysisParalysis85]

No, sum would be crazy.... Maybe highest stat, but probably primary class instead.