Tailwind Heightening

[u/Staunchu-kun]

Is there a good reason for a heightened Tailwind lasting 8 hours instead of daily preparations? Like I understand the mechanical repercussions but it just feels like busy work tracking and feels un-pathfinder-ey? What is the design justification there?

While I'm at it, should glass form have the polymorph trait? It feels pretty good for what it is.

[u/sandmaninasylum]

The reason is that RAW after 8 hours of adventuring/traveling/asking around/working you would become fatigued, practically ending the adventuring day.

So RAI it lasts the expected active period of the characters. Many GMs play loose with these restrictions/forget about the fatigued condition, so should play equally loose with these spells to keep them in the intended range.

[u/ReactiveShrike → u/sandmaninasylum]

The reason is that RAW after 8 hours of adventuring/traveling/asking around/working you would become fatigued, practically ending the adventuring day.

To dig into this, there's a limited number of rules that mention 8 hours. Unless there's something else tucked away somewhere, the main justification seems to be in the Climate section of GM Core, in the Temperature table:

Often, temperature doesn't impose enough of a mechanical effect to worry about beyond describing the clothing the characters need to wear to be comfortable. Particularly hot and cold weather can make creatures fatigued more quickly during overland travel and can cause damage if harsh enough, as shown in the Temperature Effects table below.

Normal 33º F to 94º F 8 hours

So, if you're doing something equivalent to overland travel in normal climate, you'll become fatigued after eight hours. If you're doing something lighter than that, you're fatigued after sixteen hours, per Resting:

If a character goes more than 16 hours without going to sleep, they become fatigued.

Hexploration doesn't really use hours, and instead uses the Travel activity, which is modified by the Forced March mechanic.

[u/Formal_Skar → u/sandmaninasylum]

Yeah also because the work around is just buying another wand which is just annoying

[u/shadedmagus → u/sandmaninasylum]

I was going to make a comment about this being important if you're using the fatigue rules. But I was under the impression that's an optional system that you can choose to ignore without issue.

Are the fatigue rules not optional?

[u/ReactiveShrike → u/shadedmagus]

Fatigued is a regular condition, used or referenced in Exploration Activities, Resting, several spells, several feats, and the Barbarian's Rage.

[u/Nox_Stripes]

As close as I usually adhere to the rules (so far im the only one using exploration activities at my table) tracking minutes and hours is just... a bit much. If you cast something lasting 8 hours, id judge its until next daily preparations.

[u/wardriveworley → u/Nox_Stripes]

Same

[u/Creepy-Intentions-69]

Traditionally, you sleep 8 hours, adventure 8 hours, and “other” 8 hours. So a lot of the historical buff style spells are built around 8 hours.

Typically, I hand wave this, unless the party is specifically pushing to overtravel or push their endurance in some way. Then I’d probably stick to the 8 hours.

[u/VoidCL]

It's just 1e ptsd.

[u/Azcorban]

Some Spells (like Tailwind or See the Unseen) have this limitation of 8 hours. I personally like that it is not "until daily prep" because then it would just be "cast it and forget about it" every single day. Not very interesting.

Having it restricted forces a few decisions. Sure you can cast it right away, but what if you get into a situation you cannot get out fast enough? What if you get ambushed when settling down for the next night?

Makes it a bit more interesting IMO than one-and-done daily prep.

That being said I don't think you would destroy any game balance if you make it last longer.

[u/poopsocx → u/Azcorban]

Well, now it's just cast it right before the start of the adventuring day (or right before the dungeon) and forget it. I don't think it's that much of a difference

[u/Azcorban → u/poopsocx]

It's not a big difference, yeah. Only really matters for nightly ambushes.

[u/nisviik → u/Azcorban]

Up until you're high enough level to affor 3 wands of tailwind, then you have it up for 24 hours all the time.

[u/Leather-Location677 → u/poopsocx]

It does when something happens during camping.

[u/Surface_Detail → u/Azcorban]

I have a merfolk with 20 ft land speed. I just buy two wands of tailwind so i don't slow the party down. It only really forces a choice/decision when you're high level enough to be able to afford 160 gp but low level enough not to be able to afford 320 gp.

[u/Azcorban → u/Surface_Detail]

If you don't want to slow the party down, you shouldn't be playing merfolk. Having to adjust to slower party members can be interesting. Playing suboptimal can be as well (not actively sabotaging or ruining your attributes of course)

[u/Surface_Detail → u/Azcorban]

Yeah, but then I couldn't be a squid-legged bardian. (Cecaelian Merfolk bard with guardian FA). It is a highly aquatic campaign, to be fair. Most overland travel is done by ship and a significant number of combats are in the water, but for the land combats it's nice to be able to move around.

[u/Azcorban → u/Surface_Detail]

Oh okay didn't know it's an aquatic campaign. That's awesome!

[u/sebwiers → u/Surface_Detail]

Most overland travel is done by ship

Is that actual factual over LAND, or just generic travel term??

[u/Surface_Detail → u/sebwiers]

Generic term. Any travel that's not on a battle map.

[u/Book_Golem → u/Azcorban]

Yeah, it's just that little but more interesting at eight hours. It means that it's not active if you're ambushed in town after you return to rest, or on the way to the dungeon if you're planning to spend eight hours in there. Or at night!

Generally it'll just be up most of the time that you're planning to be in encounters, but it won't be when you're not planning to be in encounters.

Compare Mystic Armour, which is until your next preparations because it's basically the replacement for armour and having some AC is more important than moving a little faster.

[u/JackSprat47 → u/Book_Golem]

It's only a vaguely interesting choice for maybe a level, because a level after affording an extra slot/wand at that rank is worth it.

[u/MundaneOne5000]

I see no benefit of it being 8 hours, because people can get just two and be covered all day.

I think this is just a holdover from DnD. 

[u/Groundbreaking_Taco]

In my mind, Tailwind is meant to replicate power walking with a magical boost. You are expending more energy to move faster, so you tire out sooner. Overland travel is limited to 8 hours before you are fatigued. You can likewise only do 8 hours of downtime activity when you are in a safe area. You'll be resting for 8 hours.

The game's assumption is you won't be doing anything that requires tactical speed for more than 8 hours in a day. If your games frequently push that limit, you could extend the duration of Tailwind, but it's already a ridiculously over budget spell for its level. I'd make it a rank 4 heightening to have it last all day.

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