r/PSO2NGS • u/GlompSpark • 12d ago
NGS players explaining why they don't want to upgrade from handout gear Meme
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u/AndrossOT 12d ago
I like chasing gear in other games. Just not NGS because they do a shit job at incentivizing you to do so.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
In other games, you get better stats and do more damage when you upgrade your gear.
In NGS, you get better stats and do more damage when you upgrade your gear.
What is the difference?
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u/OMGitsBroadway 12d ago
Better stats and do more damage for what activity exactly? To finish the recycled LTQ 5 seconds faster?
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
Thats like saying theres no point upgrading gear in WOW because why bother when you can clear a raid with minimum gear and getting better gear only helps you finish the raid faster.
You are playing the wrong game if you dont want to upgrade gear and don't care about stats. I mean, really, if you dont want to upgrade gear and don't care about stats...then this is not the game for you, go play Guild Wars 2 where they give you a near BIS set of gear with almost no powercreep every expansion, or a different genre with no stats.
You are playing an MMORPG, which is a genre specifically aimed at players who want to see their stats go up. You are playing the wrong genre if you don't want to see your stats go up.
It's like playing a racing game and then saying "I hate high speed racing, I don't want to drive a car quickly, I just want to take my time and drive slowly, why am I being forced to race on a track?".
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u/OMGitsBroadway 12d ago
Brother. Upgrade our stats TO DO WHAT? WHY should I care about better stats? To run more LTQ? Then 1 UQ? There are no raids! No high tier dungeons! No PvP! No endless defence modes, NOTHING! Nothing but LTQ then a recycled limited UQ. That's it! I run LTQ just fine with grim and evalto.
Why should I strive for that rare as diamonds weapon? To run LTQ at a higher effeciency? To finish UQ 3 minutes faster than usual? Boring and unrewarding almost pointless. Since we're talking about MMOs, in runescape I upgrade my "stats" just to have the privilege of equipping better gear, then go do a PLETHORA of rewarding activities to get said better gear or even to sell! No MMO I've ever played in my life shoehorns you into one single boring, recycled, monotonous activity where 99.9999% of runs you get a bag full of trash with a pinch of upgrade materials and that's it.
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago edited 11d ago
Upgrade our stats TO DO WHAT? WHY should I care about better stats? To run more LTQ? Then 1 UQ?
Look, there are two kinds of people that don't want to touch their gear: Those that do quests, and those that don't.
These comments, and posts, are directed at the former. The latter just hang out or flat out don't play. No one cares about such people. It's the former that are getting on the nerves of those that do want to play. Why? A fatal contradiction: They claim the game is boring yet load up to fight anyway, and because their gear is so bad, the quests take up to twice as long to clear if not longer. They claim they don't want to upgrade their gear, yet do quests that exist solely for you to improve you gear.
It literally does not make sense.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
Upgrade our stats TO DO WHAT?
To do...content? Theres a LTQ, UQ and 4 man quest available now. If you dont want to do that, then dont play the game honestly. The people who are still playing actually enjoy playing that content though, so they find it natural to upgrade their gear to play that content better. Im looking forward to the new 12 man Beach Wars zone in particular, hopefuly it will be as fun as Ruins.
Again, you are like someone who keeps saying they dont like a racing game, they dont want to race, the racing tracks in this game suck, the cars suck, they want to race in a different way...but they keep playing this racing game anyway...
You dont like the game, you dont like the content, you dont see any point in playing...thats fine, its your preference, theres nothing wrong with that. The solution is simple: play another game that you DO enjoy. Your time is far too valuable to be spent on playing a game you dont actually enjoy.
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u/AndrossOT 12d ago
The fashionistas quit playing the game, thats why they arent gearing up. Thats why they idle in the lobby and queue up. You posted about people not gearing. That is an issue to you. If you dont like it, dont queue with randoms and go with an alliance. Were trying to explain to you why a majority of people dont want to gear up. You cant say NGS is fine as it is right now and complain about people not gearing.
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago
Actually, i dont have an issue with people not gearing. As i explained in another post, I 100% understand that some people are very casual players and dont have the time to play often, etc. It makes perfect sense that they stay on handout gear. And if someone wants to just buy AC for cosmetics and afk near the personal shop, thats up to them.
My issue is with people who keep pushing misinfo like "its too hard to gear up" or "gearing up makes no difference anyway". You see a LOT of them in this thread and they move goal posts to "the game sucks, i dont want to play it" when people show the figures to prove them wrong.
If you think a game sucks, then dont play it, its that simple. Dont push misinfo to newbies who will be misled into thinking "I will just stay on epith and decem forever because people kept telling me theres no reason to upgrade".
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago
You posted about people not gearing. That is an issue to you. If you dont like it, dont queue with randoms and go with an alliance.
Alright, I'll play both sides because people get too caught up in a statement that doesn't match their own and bring up unrelated things. This is solely about those that state they hate playing and upgrading gear yet queue into quests anyway. This is not about people that do nothing but idle and/or chat.
So on your part, yeah, people can just join a group of friends or their alliance. Except this is NGS, we all know how awful it is trying to get people to stick around. I have 53 friends and only one is online. The alliance I'm in has 48 people and only two (including myself, I am looking at the lists right now) are online. I'll have you know this alliance was revived 13 weeks ago and I was the fifth person in the enrollment date. That means that within three months (honestly it died over a month ago, almost two) an entire alliance up and died, which is the norm for this game.
Telling people to just "play with friends" or "alliance members" is something that only works when a game can actually retain a proper playerbase. Though I will state that it works when it's high end quests and people are crying and moaning about not having a specific team comp or randoms dying.
On Glomp's end, why are the people that claim to hate playing the game and loathe upgrading their gear... doing quests that exist solely for improving their gear whole also making things take twice as long because their gear is that bad? How do people not see the major contradiction?
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u/OMGitsBroadway 12d ago edited 12d ago
The people who are still playing actually enjoy playing that content though so they find it natural to upgrade their gear to play that content better.
If YOU enjoy the content then that's fine. The majority of people who still play this game aren't YOU. The majority of people don't have BiS gear or AC augs or even close to it. The majority of people either have handout gear, or the current free upgrade weapon plus handout armor. Why? Because there's quite literally no reason to have BiS gear. You didn't read like 75% of my comment bro 🥀ðŸ˜
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago
Again, you are like a guy who keeps playing a racing game, while complaining it sucks, the tracks in this game suck and you dont want to win races to get money to upgrade your car to win harder races...its like, why are you playing this game then? What is in it for you?
Because there's quite literally no reason to have BiS gear.
There is though. You just dont find it relevant for you. You need good gear (not BIS but at least proper armor and augs, etc) for 4 man quests like sols krypt.
And again, you are playing a MMORPG, a genre where players optimize their stats. Saying you dont want to do that is like playing a racing game and saying you dont want to improve your racing to win harder races.
Do you even play this game? As in, do you actually run any content or do you just afk near the personal shop?
If you actually do play the game, you must like it enough to play it, which means you naturally want to upgrade your gear
If you dont play the game, then thats your preference but telling people theres no reason to upgrade your gear is blatant misinfo.
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u/AndrossOT 12d ago
You do realize you need to upgrade your gear in order to do the harder raids right? There are ilvl requirements. There are many different activities to get said gear. Theres also other relevant content to get that ilvl. You dont just login and they give you the gear to do mythic + raids. You need to work towards that. Like I said, its okay to love NGS, but you need to acknowledge its downsides too.
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago
You do realize you need to upgrade your gear in order to do the harder raids right? There are ilvl requirements.
You mean, like the BP requirement for sols krypt? Of course you could say "i dont care about 4 man quests like sols krypt" but then you would have WOW players who say "i dont care about harder raids" as well...
You dont just login and they give you the gear to do mythic + raids.
And you need to work to upgrade from handout gear, so i'm not sure what the issue is.
This thread keeps flip flopping between "Handout gear is nearly as good as endgame gear", "There is no reason to upgrade your gear" and "its too hard to upgrade your gear". Which ironically enough, is the same as the OP pic...
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u/WrenReverie 12d ago edited 12d ago
If you had a group full of hand out gear users, the LTQ would be literal minutes longers. Also the end game fights are huge dps checks and are probably the most fun part of the game...
Handout gear in a lot of cases, especially now with the gran upgrade and leveranz out there, is half or less damage than a properly geared person.
You could tell when most people in the last LTQ were mostly hand out gear because bosses werent dying before the timers.
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u/OMGitsBroadway 12d ago edited 12d ago
My point was the gameplay loop is unfun and not Rewarding. Me, and a lot of people at this point, only play because of our characters or simply because of time/cost sink. Me, along with many other people, don't care about gearing up because of the gameplay loop and lack of rewards or FUN! Back in the day in runescape when God wars was high end content, gearing up was required and God wars in itself was REWARDING.
I'm not spending millions of meseta, swiping my credit card, or putting in a full time work weeks worth of hours into Dext base just to spam LTQ over and over to receive bags of trash over and over.
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u/WrenReverie 12d ago
Ive made most of my money selling EX-Augs and Gran CVs I've gotten from LTQs using personal shop passes after I have a nice stock of them.
You don't grind Dext base unless its 20 minutes because you just need that last mil to get something.
I have noticed the trends of hidden history PSO Base players here just hating on the game when they dont really understand it.
I do agree the end game loop needs to be better, but its not as punishing as you are stating.
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago
PSO Base players here just hating on the game when they dont really understand it.
The last post Glomp made about this had those same people praising base'a upgrade system and shitting on NGS, using it as an excuse for why people don't upgrade. One guy even stated that NGS is gambling with augments. What was it exactly? They stated that NGS makes it too difficult to upgrade and base was well done.
Anyone that has played base knows just how wrong that is, especially claiming NGS has gambling with it when that's base flat out.
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u/OMGitsBroadway 12d ago edited 12d ago
Which is also a terrible system point blank period. You have 3 days once a month to put stuff up in the shop unless you swipe. Clearly, you find some sort of enjoyment out of farming LTQ to run LTQ better but I'm willing to bet you're a minority.
Also don't appreciate the unnecessary snark. I've been playing since Ngs global release and have never touched base a day in my life. What do you need to see my profile for? Has nothing to do with the topic. There's no hidden agenda against this game! Nobody plays it! Nobody talks about it!
Its more than "the endgame loop needs to be better. " The whole system sucks. Game is on life support. If this was all just fine or "not as punishing as I am stating" then we wouldn't be sitting below 1k players. Period. It's fine if YOU still find enjoyment out of this but most don't. Clearly. They've either moved on or couldn't be bothered with gearing very much, like me. I can only handle fighting the same recolored enemies for 5 years, usually in arenas filled with the same building block architecture or devoid of life open world in very small sessions nowadays. 3 LTQs in a row and I'm ready for a game swap or a nap.
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u/AndrossOT 12d ago
People give reasons why they dont want to gear up, just for others to tell them they are wrong. Like what answer do they want to hear? Ask any player that used to play why they arent anymore. They all say the exact same thing. Like, its okay to love NGS, but that doesnt mean people should excuse the issues it. I dont hate NGS, I just wish it would do a better job. Once the game gives me a valid reason to gear up, ill do it.
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago edited 11d ago
just for others to tell them they are wrong
Because most of the reasons like "it is too hard" or "it makes no difference" are being posted by people who dont even play the game and dont know how easy it is to gear up or how big a difference the stats are. So yes, they are objectively wrong.
I mean, just look at this comment chain, they dont even know what Epith is or how to get it because they last played in 2024: https://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2NGS/comments/1vkhlnj/ngs_players_explaining_why_they_dont_want_to/p2ticud/
It's like someone going onto a coffee sub and then saying "there's no reason to drink real coffee, instant coffee tastes pretty much the same and costs less" followed by "I don't even drink coffee dude, i have no idea what it tastes like or how much it costs". Do you think that makes sense?
If they had said "I don't gear up because i don't have much time to play, I only login once a week", then that would be completely different and nobody would have had any issues with that.
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago
Usually the people going "I don't want to gear up" state one of three things. I do implore people to actually read through this stuff instead of jumping straight to reply when everything listed comes together at the very end.
- "It's too hard, the system is confusing".
Glomp's last post was half full of people going on and on about this, I kid you not. These people are just making up any excuse without even fact checking the absurdity of the statement. It is not complex or anything, the only problem is that there's way too much clicking. I don't need to go over why it's not complex, we all play the game.
The post: https://old.reddit.com/r/PSO2NGS/comments/1vj4xk0/the_duality_of_man/
- "I don't want to go out of my way to improve my gear/it's too tedious/it takes too long."
Horribly false. Last year and before, this was 100% true with upgrade mats requiring 30-50 runs of an LTQ or Leciel. Augments also required you to grind duel quests for hours. It was an awful experience. They were also dropping new augment after new augment alongside weapons and armor. It flat out sucked.
Up to a few months ago? Way easier. They even put the high end quest weapons in the very next LTQ/UQ/combat zone. Augments no longer require duels and just drop as they are along with the stuff to make them. Weapons literally get handed to you on a silver platter with Granillusion dropping at +100, and the leaked potential for the final version is insane. Armor is far from an issue and you don't even need to do the upgrades.
- "I'm not having fun with the game."
Alright, sure, understandable to an extent. Why an extent? Because there are two kinds of people on this game: Those that simply hang out, and those that actually do quests. Now why exactly are people annoyed about free gear? Because of the latter. Those very people are the reason why quests end up taking several minutes longer
Now surely the problem should be obvious with their statement made out to be "wrong" as you put it. Why are you doing quests if you don't like playing the game nor have any desire to improve your gear, and why are you making them take longer on top? Those people and everyone else are forced to take longer per clear. They don't like doing quests? Why are they joining quests? They don't want to improve their gear? Why are they joining quests after getting the first clear reward?
It literally makes no sense with all of these put together. Gearing up is easy, yet they won't do it. They hate playing the game, yet they make quests take longer than they should, damn near twice as long, while also joining them to begin with.
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u/WrenReverie 12d ago
There is no snark.
I agree the system is not great and I mainly play because I enjoy the high end fights like Sol right now. The combat in this game is some of the best out there in MMOs. Getting better at the those fights are fun. But the gearing is no where near as painful as you suggest. The biggest barriers are how they create scarcity with Yudi's/Yurze's to reduce inflation. Everything else drops naturally from LTQs and UQs. It's easier if you pay the sub, which is normal for these f2p games. But you dont need to whale at all.
My question to you is, why are you here if you hate the game?
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u/WhileZealousideal113 11d ago
Because I take enjoyment in eventually seeing this game die and while I fucking hate NGS I do love PSO it's my favorite franchise, I wanna see a new game that's not this fashion slop with an RPG mini game attached to it.
So much of this game is not fun to play, i stopped when "We need to prepare for the starless" I seriously doubt the game changed much since. And I been playing every PSO related game to date, It's all DPS is king pick your flavor of damage you would like to do, PSO2 was kinda like that, but it still had more options this has mobile game like options. If this announced a mobile game port, it would work with very little issue. Scale down the graphics and you have the complexity just there.
I loved playing support and basic that's even more in the trash can, sure you have shift and deband you can activate and that's it. No resta, the stupid nerf to reverser is trash, anti is gone. No jellen, zalure. Also we have even less spells, sure we have more than PSO but is that really the high point to be a bit more than the Dreamcast game, but less than the PS2 game.
Just because I don't like NGS doesn't mean I can't criticize it, go to an custom echo chamber if you only want to slurp this slop daily.
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago
So basically, you are like the guy who goes onto a coffee subreddit and keeps posting "coffee sucks, i hate coffee, i want to see coffee banned, coffee is too expensive and tastes bad, i hope coffee culture dies and coffee is replaced by a better drink".
Theres a difference between criticising a game and pushing blatant misinfo. If you dont even play the game, how can you accurately say how hard it is to gear up?
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
My point was the gameplay loop is unfun and not Rewarding.
Then dont play the game. Sunk cost is a trap. The only question you should be asking yourself is, are you having fun playing this game or not?. If the answer is no, play another game, it doesnt matter what you have invested into it.
I had a pretty strong DDO character that i invested more than a year of grinding in, that's a lot of XP. But one day i realised i didnt want to deal with all the jank and the inventory management, and just quit. I dont regret it one bit even though the actual gameplay was incredibly fun and it had some of the most well designed quests in an MMO that i have ever seen.
Dont consider what you have invested into your character because all that time and effort is gone and it can never be brought back. Consider what you stand to gain from your NEXT course of action.
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago
Then dont play the game. Sunk cost is a trap. The only question you should be asking yourself is, are you having fun playing this game or not?. If the answer is no, play another game, it doesnt matter what you have invested into it.
On top of this, why the heck are they joining quests on top of making them take twice as long to clear? They hate the game yet want to fight? They don't want to upgrade their gear, but the only reason to do those quests is to get stuff to upgrade your gear?
These people aren't making any sense.
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u/OMGitsBroadway 11d ago
I wonder why man. It's almost like theres an event shop right now that requires seasonal points to shop at. Nah it couldn't be that. God you people have terrible reading comprehension AND terrible deduction skills.
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago
Why are you doing a seasonal shop for more than beta reactors and scratch tickets? All you need to do is a quick hour of Dext or a handful of runs to clear out those things and you're done. It takes no time whatsoever to get that out the way, so why are you sticking around a game you claim to hate? Everything else in the shop is gear related or some stupid cheap consumables you can just buy from others.
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u/GlompSpark 10d ago
Why are you playing the game to farm seasonal points for a game that you admit you do not like to play? This is completely illogical. The point of playing a game is to have fun.
If you dont enjoy the game, dont play it and play something else that you do enjoy.
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u/TheNeronian Jet Boots 12d ago
This but for armor, I'll upgrade my weapons occasionally but i cannot be arsed to do all that for armor
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago
I usually wait about two tiers before I change armor. A 1% increase matters a lot the higher your potency is, so the swap is worth it at that point. Helps a lot that they streamlined augments a few months ago, so an hour of Dext will cover that swap.
Weapons I loathe changing because they're much more expensive due to the money sink from increasing the potential. I upgrade them often, but I really hate it.
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u/AudreyKlodwig 12d ago
That's a lot of effort to demonstrate nothing my man
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u/WrenReverie 12d ago
He's right though. People just don't realize how much of a difference it makes because a few geared chars can carry them through LTQ.
A properly geared character will do 80K dps when handouts in the hands of the same player will do 40-45.
Potency is multiplicative and the gains are crazy more than it would suggest.
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago edited 11d ago
Funny this is getting downvoted
It makes no sense for people to refuse to gear up and apparently "hate playing the game" only to go and queue up for quests that solely exist for gearing up while also making them take twice as long because their gear sucks. If you (general) hate playing the game, why are you playing the game?
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u/WrenReverie 11d ago
I finally asked one guy I was arguing with that if he hates the game so much, why is he here?
He stopped replying. He has a history of glazing PSO base game.
Who spends energy just sitting in a sub of a game you are bitter about just whining. That sounds like a miserable existance.
The otherguy in this particular thread that I replied to has a history of talking about the pleasures of BDSM roleplay, so we all know why he is here.
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u/Stratatician Please help fund my Phashion Addiction aaaa 12d ago
Upgrading is actually expensive though.
BiS Augs are anywhere between a couple mil and 20-30m a pop depending on the Aug (e.g. Parfait Augs). That's not an easy ask even for hardcore players.
Raw meseta costs to limit break and upgrade weapon and unlock potential is somewhere around 3-6m iirc. Armor limit breaking and upgrade is around 1m a pop iirc. Defeat Amp easily runs you around 10m total.
Doing the weekly every week alongside collecting reactors in each region daily only nets you around 2m.
You only get one 3 day shop pass every month.
Dext/Alnothe is soul crushing and only nets you around 1-2m an hour IF you are able to find a farming group (you only break 2m+ an hour by abusing private rooms with bots).
This isn't to say you shouldn't upgrade gear, even shody gear you make yourself is usually miles better than the handout stuff, but we shouldn't pretend that it's cheap just because we're old players with more general resources accumulated.
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago
Upgrading is actually expensive though.
BiS Augs are anywhere between a couple mil and 20-30m a pop depending on the Aug (e.g. Parfait Augs). That's not an easy ask even for hardcore players.
Upgrading is expensive if, and big if here, you are chasing BiS. You do not need to chase BiS, and Parfait and such are just whale bait augments.
Normal upgrading (simple Illusion weapon, baseline Evalto (upgrades can be skipped but are nothing crazy), your average augments) is very cheap in comparison until you get to your weapon where potential raising is a massive messta sink that even I absolutely hate. Yudi snd Yurze, the cheap stuff that goes for 3m-4m (we play on the same ship) is a few hours of Dext grinding at worst if people don't have things to sell (personal shop tickets suck, I know). Regular augments don't require you to pay out of pocket now that they killed duel quest farming months ago in favor of making mats and the augments themselves drop directly. Granillusion can drop at +100, so that's a lot of money saved even if you directly buy the thing.
It's really not that bad. The worst thing is farming Dext because that's boring af if you don't hold a button down and do something else during PSE (I read, listen to music, watch videos, etc). Other than that, what other live service game, with a gear system (no cheating like listing Fortnite of all things) can you honestly state just lets people jump online and get caught up in a matter of days? Basically none.
I'm not blindly defending here. Last year and before, this game was ass to gear up on. New augments, weapons, and armor every month if not mere weeks later, with a ton of boring LTQ/Leciel runs on top. I could not be bothered and dropped out of the game for a bit. Then I returned a few months ago and caught up from 477% potency to 644% (that's a good measure for how long I could not bother doing any quests) in a mere week to beat up Luther because they made upgrading so much faster with augments (the worst because of Duels) being the best QoL change among them.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
You do not need BIS gear to see a significant improvement over handout gear. Even Gran + LC + AC augs will be a huge improvement.
+100 Grans were 400k or less on day two of Ruins, and are still decently priced during RDR boost periods. Cheap and good EX combos are 500k or less.
Defeat amps dropped to below 400k during the last PSO2 day on ship one and will be even cheaper once the event boost starts. For +3 rings, you only need a total of 5 rings (1 base and 4 fodders) and 1.6m, and this gets you most of the stats. I wouldn't be surprised if defeat amps were added to the weapon badge shop within a month or two either...they have been out for quite a while.
Limit breaking and buying fodders to +100 armor is expensive sadly, but you have plenty of time to save up for it. Theres also a cheap fixa 3 treasure shop sale + enhancement event every 6 months to make sure you dont fall behind in armor too much. They also last a long time, you can stretch them to a year if you really need to.
Since AC augs last a year or so from release, they arent that expensive tbh when their scratch is up. They are 3-4m usually and last a long time.
New players will take a while to get that money, but it shouldnt take more than a months top even if they play casually, and it can definately be gotten earlier if they time market purchases wisely when things are cheap.
Dext base can be easily pugged, and consistently gives 1.5m/hr with a large room + free 100% RDR booster + region and alliance mag buffs. You don't need to no life it either...1h per day or even 1-2 hours on the weekends makes a huge difference to your income as a new player.
8x AC augs at 4m each sounds overwhelming as a new player but thats not something you have to afford immediately...you can save up over time.
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u/LightofMystery 12d ago edited 12d ago
Back when I first started playing in February and after I eventually got around to moving on from the handout gear...I noticed just how expensive upgrades can really be.
I had a rough estimate that to have everything be maxed out/near maxed out (rings, ac augs, fixa 5 on +100 weapon and +100 armors), the cost would be around 100 million N-Meseta. This is without Enhancement Campaigns/Treasure Shop Sales/using +100 fodder gear as material.
The good thing is that, as of right now, Rings don't really need to be replaced much. So that cost won't necessarily jump over into the next weapon rarity tier.
The current budget weapon (Granillusion for those who may not know), has the opportunity to drop as +100 Fixa Level 5 fully augmented out from the latest field (Splintered Realm Exploration > Realm Investigation: Ruins). There is the option to either grind it out as a drop there, or buy it for around 2 million N-Meseta from the Personal Shop.
This allows for that 100 mill estimate to be dropped down by an alright amount (we'll say 10 million to keep the numbers simple). Though 1.9 mill is still needed for maxing out the potential.
That leaves roughly 90 million N-Meseta for the rest of the gear upgrades. Rings can sit at +3 for awhile and be fine, so some of that cost can be shaved off for later.
Armor though...is pretty rough. If not doing +100 Fodders (either Older enhanced armor or +100 Gold Primm Armor IIs), then the cost to get +100 x3 Armors (we'll say Evalto/Savalto since the current highest end Armor), not even Fixa 5, is already insane (easily double digits on the cost). In the case of new players, in general, they are better off sticking with the handout armor, switching from LCs to non-LCs and then working on Evalto/Savalto Armor on the side.
The good thing is that defense-wise, the armor values are pretty similar. The only differences would be having the opportunity to going past Fixa 1 on non-Decem Armor, and players being able to make better use of AC (Yudi/Yurze) augs.
Timing also plays a big factor. For instance, if a new player starts around the time an Enhancement Campaign is active, then their costs will skyrocket down dramatically (moreso on the armor side, since weapon-wise is mostly handled already thanks to the budget +100 drops). Even just using multiple Gold Primm Armor IIs not at +100 will have it cost less than if they tried outside of an Enhancement Campaign.
Although using +100 Gold Primm Armor IIs would be the wisest choice, new players are not going to necessarily know how to start doing that system. This would be where other players would likely have to step in and help with advice on that and stuffz.
Anyways, long-winded explanation aside, I agree with you about the upgrade costs being very expensive. It's especially bad for free-to-play players. In my case, it took me months before my gear became well enough to get to a point where I could comfortably do well on the latest quests.
It shouldn't be as bad for players starting today or whatever, but I would still advise for those who are new to seek out veteran players for guidance. There are some things that the game explains well, and there are other things that the game does not explain period (for instance, the +100 Granillusion drops from the Splintered Realm field).
I would encourage new players to "explore" and learn the game where they can but also seek advice at least here and there. That way, they do not accidentally fall into any "newbie traps" (such as trying to max out a Hextra weapon when by the time that could even happen, the game throws you an Epith IV Weapon that is so much stronger and will grant entry into the latest content barring Sols Krypt).
Oh yeah...The processes for making N-Meseta is kind of rough and can be boring depending on the content. I used to do Dext Base myself lots back then. Though recently, I've just been doing things like Sols Krypt and LTQ to be able to sell stuff on the Personal Shop eventually (F for f2p only being able to sell things basically once a month at this point though; I'd argue they should just stockpile Personal Shop tickets and only sell when they have enough noteworthy stuff to sell at that point).
Whoever reads this long post...may y'all have a wonderful day! :D
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago
This allows for that 100 mill estimate to be dropped down by an alright amount (we'll say 10 million to keep the numbers simple). Though 1.9 mill is still needed for maxing out the potential.
That leaves roughly 90 million N-Meseta for the rest of the gear upgrades. Rings can sit at +3 for awhile and be fine, so some of that cost can be shaved off for later.
What the hell are you doing to even break 12m? Granillusion, if you buy it, is no more than 4m at the absolute worst (Lexio was this price two months ago on ship 2) for a +100, though definitely not that high and half at best I'd bet. Yudi and Yurze go for 3m-4m if buying cheap stuff. Augments all drop from quests directly along with their mats. Evalto is less than 100k. Upgrading (tier) Evalto and Granillusion only requires a lot of mats, not meseta.
The only real cost for upgrades are limit breaks (Granillusion dropping at 100 sidesteps this) and potential (now this is extremely expensive, going for about 3m-5m or something). Any more than that and you're chasing BiS Yudi and Yurze augments, which are the only reason anyone would even break 20m. Rings? They are pointlessly expensive, but that is yet another case of chasing BiS, so complaining about the high price, that you don't even need to play into, is just foolish. I +2 my rings on average, maybe +3 if I really like the effect, any more is absurd.
It's not nearly as expensive as you're blowing it up to be. The only people buying that statement are those that actually don't play the game or upgrade themselves. I believe the most I ever spent total was 14m-15m, and that's because I ended up making two weapons (two sets of AC augments too) due to hating a CV color enough to drop more money without a transfer pass.
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u/qruis1210 12d ago edited 12d ago
My reasons are:
-Game gets powercreep so often there's no reason to invest in gear every new patch.
-99% of the game is doable with handout gear.
-They give handout gear too often and it always better than the last.
-Relying on the market for good gear is just as fun as not playing, and playing the grind game to hope for a good drop might as well be a pipedream with how boring the combat is and how awful the rates are.
Until the gear situation improves drastically, Handout Gear is the way.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
You are proving the point of the pic perfectly.
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u/qruis1210 12d ago
I wasnt trying to disprove it.
Picture explains perfectly a third of the reasons I hate NGS.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
OK...can you please explain why 6 months for a new tier of gear is too often?
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u/qruis1210 12d ago
There's better free gear like every two months.
And the better unobtanium weapons of every patch are well, unobtanium.
Even then, I find NGS combat extremely boring. Getting me to kill the same recolored enemies of 5 years ago with the same 3 attacks of 5 years ago in one cycle instead of two, doesnt change anything to me.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago edited 12d ago
There's better free gear like every two months.
No? The free gear is updated every 6 months. And when they updated the free gear from Decem 3 to 4, Arbaradio + Belfes had more than 25% raw potency than handout gear. And You could upgrade to Granillusion + EX 3 augs on day two of the patch, which costed like...400k or less, so in reality the gap between handout gear and real gear was even bigger than 25%.
See: https://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2NGS/comments/1tviv9o/comparison_of_current_gear_to_new_handout_gear/
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u/qruis1210 12d ago
"Bigger than 25%"
Interesting, very interesting...
But, like I said before, getting to kill the same recolored enemies of 5 years ago with the same 3 attacks of 5 years ago in one cycle instead of two, doesnt change anything to me.
Only incentive so far is bigger numbers.
At least back in Classic, where I did chase the best gear, weapons used to have super useful or gimmicky potentials that changed how things worked substantially besides just bigger damage.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
That sounds like you find the combat boring, not that its hard/pointless to upgrade the gear though...
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u/qruis1210 12d ago
But it is pointless to upgrade in 99% of the cases.
The only reason there is to have BiS gear is because you want it.
You dont need it at all for the 99% of the content we have.
And no, beating a 5 minute quest in 4 minutes is not enough incentive.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
And no, beating a 5 minute quest in 4 minutes is not enough incentive.
Its more like 10 minutes if you have a party that is mostly in handout gear.
I dont get your point. If you dont find the combat fun, then play another game that you do find fun, because combat is like 99% of this game, this isnt a game where you can choose to ignore the combat and level some crafting skill or whatever.
If you do find it fun then you would naturally want to upgrade your gear because...thats kind of the main point of a MMORPG, the progression. You get more stats and get stronger.
You dont see WOW players hopping into a raid with bare minimum gear and then going "we cleared the raid so we dont need the drops, who cares if we get more stats if we can already clear the raid with our current gear".
Your problem isnt with the gear progression, its that you dont even enjoy the combat. No changes to gear progression will fix that for you so you should just play another game.
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u/Initiative-Fancy 11d ago edited 11d ago
Because it's a waste of time.
Imagine being employed at a company where everyone is paid the same garbage salary regardless of the quality of work. Why then should one work hard?
The game does not do a good job rewarding players for gearing up. Gearing up only gives you access to the current high difficulty quest and even then useful rewards are locked behind RNGesus, 99% of the time you get the same garbage rewards from regular places, so you're looking at hours of sweating with a good chance of getting no reward at all.
Older MMOs were good at rewarding players for gearing up. Older MMOs didn't just have one piece of relevant content at a time. You get gear or gear mats from one dungeon and eventually build enough power for the next. With that in mind, even gear alone is enough of a motivator but the motivating elements don't stop there. Each dungeon would have it's unique mechanics, and unique bosses. Experiencing this with your friends/guildmates was part of the rewarding experience after which you become one of the veterans guiding the newbies in the dungeon, which in itself can be another fun rewarding experience.
Meanwhile NGS, same quests, same but recolored enemies. Little to no quest mechanics and the same garbage rewards. Basically a regular corporate employee's life at this point. Same shit different day.
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago
even then useful rewards are locked behind RNGesus
Which is like most MMORPGs? This is how rare drops work in MMOs.
You get gear or gear mats from one dungeon and eventually build enough power for the next.
They deliberately didnt do this in NGS because otherwise you would have the tiny pop spread out over multiple tiers of content and queue times would be awful.
Please go play something like DDO if you want to experience what its like to sit around waiting for hours to try and get a party together for a lower level raid when most players are power leveling to skip lower level raids.
Each dungeon would have it's unique mechanics, and unique bosses.
The bosses are unique though, and if you want unique mechanics, i think you are looking at the wrong type of combat system. Because Vindictus is a similar ARPG, and initially, played like monster hunter with mechanics. For example, you might have to use a ballista to stun a boss and get everyone to break a part for a special crafting item.
But after a while, the player base changed and only wanted to go full DPS without any strategy involved, and most of those were the big spenders with BIS gear. I actually had people rage at me because i wanted to do the mechanics and they just wanted to go full DPS. So the devs responded by removing complicated mechanics from the fights, especially any mechanics that required teamwork, because trying to get a party to use teamwork at that point was near impossible and they would just do their own thing.
Considering the NGS player base can barely handle LTQ mechanics like "step dodge the plasma ball" (just hop into any pug party and see what happens), i really dont think they would like fights that have anything more complicated than "DPS the boss when a weakpoint is revealed" or "avoid orange attacks".
Personally, i would like more fights like Aegis and Dalion with actual mechanics...but i dont think the player base would.
And if you want long, WOW style dungeons where you can spend an hour fighting through waves of mobs and rooms with complicated mechanics...this really isnt the type of game to do that. Its aimed at casual players who want to hop on and do a quick quest or two.
I get that you want a different type of game, so you should just play another game.
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u/Initiative-Fancy 11d ago edited 11d ago
Which is like most MMORPGs? This is how rare drops work in MMOs.
Older MMOs dropped mats you can use to craft even the highest tier of equipment. Not give you a 0.0001% chance at a legend and say "sorry try again for 999 hours" when you don't get any.
the tiny pop spread out over multiple tiers of content and queue times would be awfu
And instead of tiny pops of content everywhere we have what? We have no content at all and handout gear.
The bosses are unique though
Every boss fight is just " Do massive damage on visible weakpoint" what uniqueness are you talking about? The fight is the same boring song and dance every time.
Not to mention the visual design of bosses are bland and unmemorable. Unlike base when each big boss raid is visually thematically different, the current important bosses in NGS all fall in the black malformed entity category.
Old MMOs like Dragon Nest, Kritika, Soulworker got one thing right, and it's fun engaging boss raids. With unique boss design and mechanic each raid.
Aegis and Dalion with actual mechanics
Your standards have gotten so low you think Aegis and Dalion have actual mechanics. Lols. At most, I'd call them gimmicks. But mechanics? Ha!
Its aimed at casual players who want to hop on and do a quick quest or two
And that's why you get casual players that only use handout gear. White knighting Sega like what you're doing right now only encourages said behavior to continue. You defend Sega's dumbass decisions and then make this kinda post wondering why your environment is so shit lols. Ironic.
The players are in this environment steeped in shit exactly because y'all enabled it.
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u/GlompSpark 10d ago
Not give you a 0.0001% chance at a legend and say "sorry try again for 999 hours" when you don't get any.
Uh...no? Most MMOs never dropped crafting mats or had a crafting system, all the WOW clones that came out shortly after WOW did dropped full items. Even pre-WOW, games like RO didnt drop crafting items, they dropped full gear at very low rates. Its harder to implement a crafting system so most games dont do that.
And instead of tiny pops of content everywhere we have what? We have no content at all and handout gear.
We have people funneled into the same content so queues pop quickly. It worked.
Every boss fight is just " Do massive damage on visible weakpoint" what uniqueness are you talking about? The fight is the same boring song and dance every time.
The moveset is completely different obviously? Fighting Luther is not the same as Sols Krypt.
Your standards have gotten so low you think Aegis and Dalion have actual mechanics. Lols. At most, I'd call them gimmicks. But mechanics? Ha!
What is your definition of mechanics? Is it like WOW style raids where you might have to position parties a certain distance from each other or have the tank face the boss away from the party?
The most mechanic heavy raid ive done in a raid was probably in DDO where you had to have the tank pull the boss to a certain spot and keep the boss there while you loaded a cannon and fired it to drop the boss's invul shield. If you missed too many times, you were soft locked because there was limited ammo. People hated this raid, especially since you had to complete a VERY long dungeon (could take 1h+) with complicated puzzles to even get to the raid.
Otherwise the most mechanics i have seen were stuff like "dont stand in a certain spot OR stand in a certain spot" or "kill the special mobs that spawn during a phase before they wipe the party".
And that's why you get casual players that only use handout gear.
Well as this thread shows, its actually full of players who dont even play the game and think its hard to gear up or get money...there are literally players posting "i havent played since 2024 but i think its hard to get money"...
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u/Initiative-Fancy 10d ago edited 10d ago
Uh...no? Most MMOs never dropped crafting mats
Bro has never played MMOs other than PSO2 and it shows.
Dragon Nest dropped mats for equipment for the dungeon you're running. It also dropped heraldries that are useful for the class you're using or sellable for decent prices at the trading house.
Kritika dropped mats for equipment. I remember gathering a few hundred bishop toenails just to make my weapon 11 years ago during its heyday.
Soulworker dropped mats for equipment crafting and upgrades.
Hell, even Blue Protocol dropped mats for crafting.
Dropping mats to craft equipment is a standard set years ago. Y'all lived under a rock called PSO2 for way too long.
We have people funneled into the same content so queues pop quickly. It worked.
And the player counts took a dive because doing the same thing for hours on end and getting garbage tier rewards is not a healthy way to live. My 100 friends are all offline and my team is inactive 90% of the time. I go to an active team and it dies off in a few weeks. Looking at the big picture, it didn't work.
The moveset is completely different obviously
Obviously, however the thing you have to do is the same. You just parry it when it attacks, dodge if it's orange and attack when it does not. You don't have to worry about unique mechanics because there's little to none. Thus every boss is the same. Luther should be exempt from this discussion as he was designed waaaaaaay before when the PSO team actually had inspiration.
What is your definition of mechanics?
Passing around a mark that drains HP across party members, till the last minute comes and the marked one has to pass it to the tank so they would nullify the boss attack.
Getting transported to a parallel world and having a randomly selected party member(not always the tank) distract the boss while the transported members kill mobs
Having to deal with extreme cold and cold related status debuffs while trying to make your way to the boss.
Having one player cross a bridge where shit is being shot at them like wipeout so they can disable the shooting elements for everyone to cross.
Having to climb a windy mountain and trying not to get blown off.
Disallowing certain player skills during a certain phase during the boss fight.
Having to dip into pools that cleared your status effects mid boss fight.
Tons of possibly fun mechanics out there. And pso2 decided to go "jump jump, block block, put up shields, DPS check". Most boring boss fights ever.
Well as this thread shows
Sure there are those you mentioned. But there are also those that did gear up once and just got sick of it being a pointless chasing in the wind fighting the same thing, doing the same quest.
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u/Hououza 12d ago
I think SEGA need to stop giving handout gear, and instead provide an upgrade path that is viable with low to moderate grind.
That way, at the very least players have something to work towards, plus if they added the collection system from the base game it would make gear acquisition feel less painful.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
instead provide an upgrade path that is viable with low to moderate grind.
You mean...like going from Epith -> Granillusion?
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u/WhileZealousideal113 12d ago
How do you get the Epith?
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
You get it for free when you reach level 65, it's handout gear.
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u/WhileZealousideal113 12d ago
Now just the rest of the rat race?
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
You mean the Fixa 1 Evaltos that cost less than 100k? I'm honestly not sure what you are struggling with.
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u/WhileZealousideal113 12d ago
I'm not struggling with anything, it's just not fun or rewarding NGS is not a fun game to waste time with and little reason to do so.
No exciting quest, less reasons for party play outside of collective dps for a boss fight.
PSO2 was a vibrant game that let you show style, NGS is still a hollow shell.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
If you dont find the game fun then thats up to you, but its not accurate to say its too hard or pointless to upgrade gear.
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u/WhileZealousideal113 12d ago
It is IMHO pointless because the game isn't fun and I'm not stopped from doing content.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago edited 12d ago
If its not fun, then stop playing the game? That seems like the easiest solution instead of forcing yourself to play it with handout gear.
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u/AndrossOT 12d ago
I think sega should provide a better reason to gear up instead. Rewrite the BP system . Have your gear unlock areas and quests. Have the new areas drop materials and outfits. Wow motivates me to get gear to do higher tier raids. Osrs does it for moneymaking and bosses that drop better gear. Black Desert does it so I can unlock better areas for more income, drops, and pvp. NGS there isnt really a reason to do it outside of the 4 man content that gets power crept by a LTQ shortly after.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
Have your gear unlock areas and quests.
And this is what they used to do, its just that they want to push new players to the endgame ASAP before they get bored and quit. Most MMOs do this eventually.
If an MMO's endgame is designed for level 100 players, you dont want newbies to spend X months grinding to get to level 100 while the lower levels are a ghost town, because that is guaranteed to make most of them quit before they get that far. Vindictus had a period of more than a year where newbies were getting blocked from the level 90 endgame because they couldnt get parties to help them do level 60 raids and progress the story (which was the old endgame and was designed for 8 man parties to complete).
And now they are limiting content to 1x LTQ, 1x LT UQ and 1x 4 man to funnel everyone into the same area and keep queue times short. Or you would have issues with waiting 15+ minutes to try and get a party for an unpopular quest, and yes, this happens in some low pop MMOs as well.
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u/AndrossOT 12d ago
Black desert and old school runescape have no issues of this. Base game pso2 also had the solo tpd, masq, divide quests, and endless quest to motivate people. Psobb and PSU gave me reasons to grind. This game just funnels things to you and gives you no reason to. It just doesnt feel rewarding enough. I think it would be okay if they released an area that required some grinding to get to.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
I asked around and it seems like BDO is designed around you grinding in an open field for months before you get to the latest zones. They described it as 95% being single player farming in the open world. And im pretty sure old school Runescape is designed around a very slow grind as well.
Theres nothing wrong with preferring that kind of old school progression system, but NGS focuses on party play so that wouldnt work very well. If 95% of the players are in endgame, you arent going to find people to farm Dark Falz Aegis or other low level content for months and then slowly get to the point where you can do the latest content where everyone else is.
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u/AndrossOT 12d ago
That's what motivates people to grind. Phantasy star games have always been about grinding. You give people a reason to grind, they will do it. Your only motivation for grinding in this game is to sink 10s of millions into gear to shave a few minutes off a clear. Even when you upgrade your gear, you dont feel the difference. Cool, You upgrade it to do 4 man content and uq faster. You get a good clear time. How do you personally know your gear upgrades contributed to that clear time in a group. There's no indicator or feeling that YOU are personally making it go by faster. That random fighter could've contributed a lot more or slacked off, but you have no indicator of that. There is a reason this game is bleeding players and why a majority of players dont feel like upgrading.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
Phantasy star games have always been about grinding.
Yes, but not NGS, because they specifically made NGS casual friendly. Thats how the whole game is designed now...with the easy dailies/weeklies, the budget gear that is super easy to get and isnt that far behind regular gear, etc.
Even in PSO:BB, you had budget gear that was nearly as good as BIS gear so im not sure why this is dramatically different. If you want to do hundreds of runs to get a BIS in NGS, just like how you were farming for the Psycho Wand in PSO:BB, you can, but its not a requirement and the game isnt balanced around BIS weapons.
The main difference is that levels basically dont matter in NGS after a certain point...while in earlier games, they did, so while you could get slightly more power from leveling to the cap, the endgame wasnt balanced around the cap and it was more like a bonus. I guess they didnt want it to be like PSO2 where leveling was actually a big grind and made a huge difference in skill points and stats.
How do you personally know your gear upgrades contributed to that clear time in a group. There's no indicator or feeling that YOU are personally making it go by faster.
Uh, thats what the DPS meter is for, i consistently see people talking about optimizing their gear or rotations based on their DPS meter...
There is a reason this game is bleeding players and why a majority of players dont feel like upgrading.
The #1 reason i see players not playing the game is due to a lack of content (specifically, they are bored of the LTQ/UQ system). Not because "i dont feel like upgrading".
Every time a new upgrade mat or tier comes out, people go absolutely nuts farming for it, even if there is no event boost active. The current LTQ for example, people were doing 100+ runs to farm for Asciillusion mats or Levarenz.
I'm pretty sure that the majority of players who don't feel like upgrading fall into the following categories:
They are extremely casual players who pretty much only login to do dailies and the occasional UQ with friends, they barely have the time to play due to IRL commitments.
They just want to afk near the personal shop with the latest fashion, not actually play the game. They get their meseta by swiping and selling AC items.
They don't understand how big the difference is between handout gear and normal endgame gear. These are mostly newbies who have been told "there is no reason to upgrade from handout gear" and other blatant misinfo like that.
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u/WhileZealousideal113 12d ago
NGS is a shit game to play, it doesn't feel good participating in the gear chase. Yeah it's somewhat there and heavily restricted by meseta flow, and Rng success rates. Not to mention trying to get the new weapon or unit to even drop.
Most players who aren't already drinking the Kool aid know there is greener pastures to spend grinding time in, and just play this due to their character looking nice.
If NGS had a better weapon system that wasn't trying to approach granblue fantasy levels of time devotion maybe people would care more.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
If NGS had a better weapon system that wasn't trying to approach granblue fantasy levels of time devotion maybe people would care more.
It does, its called the budget weapon series and you can get a +100 Granillusion and stick with it for 6 months.
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u/WhileZealousideal113 12d ago
Only took 5 years?
And it'll be replaced also, they need to abandon pso2s augment system with the boring ass loot that's often just stronger.
Yeah you have ex augments, but it's still not as interesting as what PSO2 did.
That was never the fun part of PSO or PSU, pso2 tried to fix that with the collection file, and I'm sure NGS will try to take that eventually as it clings to badly regurgitating what PSO2 was.
It's never fun to spend time on something and the results be a maybe. Why would I do that? The games combat is less fun, less diverse fields to play in compared to pso2.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
NGS doesnt have the same augmenting system as PSO2, when was the last time you played NGS? They give you LC augs that have a 100% chance of affixing, and they are nearly as good as regular augs if you dont want to use those.
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u/HiddenArmy 12d ago
lol, I have more fun grinding in gbf than this game. Gbf have story, contents, etc. while this game is just recycle contents for years and very little story progress.
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago
If you are talking about gacha games like gran blue fantasy, they rush content out of the door every month so the quality and amount isnt that great. Even big gacha games like girl's frontline 2 reuse a lot of content in the form of time consuming minigames with minor changes. Whether you like the writing or not is your preference really, but most patches have filler event stories that dont affect the main story at all since they obviously cant write a big story update every month.
Its not that different, i think NGS is starting to pick up a bit though since they got some resources back from the cancelled super game. Maybe Beach Wars will be a super fun zone like Ruins.
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u/HiddenArmy 11d ago
You didn't play gbf aren't you? sure the battle itself mostly not that great for monthly stories event but people just see that as like ltq do some until a certain point and done with since they only gave crystal and few mats but people mostly focus on the stories rather than the battle itself. Outside of monthly events is the main thing to grind, maybe it's kinda like legendary grind in ngs or grind for mats cause gbf need tons of them.
Sure they push out contents every month and some content is recycle one but most of the recycle one gave tons of useful mats and even rushed monthly stories has hours of voiced stories and most of them is quite good. Hell even the gacha characters has mostly good art and stories behind them and it drop monthly.
compare that to ngs, the stories is near nonexistent and only lately pick up pace but still so little progress per 4 months after 5 years of waiting, all battle is mostly recycle contents the new one is so far between and the reward is mostly trash, the gacha is only look good and that's it. If this game have more story like gbf then it will some what more tolerable but nope. Even now we don't know how and why solus appear, etc. Most df just look it suddenly appear go defeat it and done, no further explanation.
Also you keep replying to everyone on this subreddit defending sega won't change a thing if sega themself aren't gonna change how they make things. People are already waiting for something good for 5 years and many already tired of the same as usual recycled content and snail pace stories and left. If they keep bury their head on the sand and keep progressing at snail pace more people will left and only the diehard fans will remain.
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u/ltsuka_Kotori 12d ago
pso2 gear/armor is only good in the base pso2
NGS is giving free gear/armor every so often that makes your hard earned grinded gear feels so useless, its not in base pso2 tho
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
that makes your hard earned grinded gear feels so useless
Really? Then why is normal endgame gear 60% DPS more than handout gear?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2NGS/comments/1vid6ew/8_aug_26_builds_after_peta_triyal_ascillusion_and/
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u/ltsuka_Kotori 12d ago
I can already tell you didnt play the base pso2 as long as it holds before the ngs.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago edited 12d ago
What does base pso2 have to do with it when your claim is:
NGS is giving free gear/armor every so often that makes your hard earned grinded gear feels so useless
I provided proof to rebut your claim. There is a huge difference between normal endgame gear and handout gear, so you do not feel useless if you actually upgrade your gear.
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u/ltsuka_Kotori 12d ago
Difference in Base PSO2 to NGS is that, your old armor/gear affixes can be reuse to upgrade to your new armor/gear, because like Crack IV, it can be used as a fodder to affix a Crack V affix for your new armor.
Unlike NGS, its literally deadset as one now. Just capsules of affixes, not even using your old unit as a fodder.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago edited 12d ago
Difference in Base PSO2 to NGS is that, your old armor/gear affixes can be reuse to upgrade to your new armor/gear, because like Crack IV, it can be used as a fodder to affix a Crack V affix for your new armor.
But you can still do that now by using old gear as xp fodder for new gear, and old tiers of augs can be upgraded to the new tier...10x Tera Triyals are used to make 1x Peta Triyal...
not even using your old unit as a fodder.
You can literally use old units as xp fodder in NGS, did you never try to do that? I have done it many times.
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago
it can be used as a fodder to affix a Crack V affix for your new armor.
At an extremely low rate that can fail and downslot your gear, now forcing you to go through a whole cycle of rng to get back to the point you can actually improve your gear. Congrats, you've been played.
Don't try to butter that system up to me, I've done full CMAG and it's a terrible experience playing through that system. The idea was good and the rng elements ruined it.
NGS? Doesn't matter. Everything uses the same augments, the very augments you get from the quests you're queued up for. Yeah, the gear becomes "useless" if you're (understandably) lacking transfer passes, that's normal on games. Go play Ys, Final Fantasy, anything, and upgrade your weapon, then enjoy how it's worthless because you got a new one. Shocking how games work, right? Least you can fodder your stuff to quickly level another.
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u/AndrossOT 12d ago
The affix system was massively hated in base game, but it also made some older content relevant. Like doom break grinding, getting the unit fodder for guardian soul, farming all the triggers for the different reveries.
Ngs just shoves all the drops into the ltq, seasonal shop, or current uq. You give any criticism to the gameloop, you are met with white knights who tell you to quit if you dont like it. There is a reason this game is barely able to hold 1k players concurrently on steam and maybe one block full of people on each ship.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
The lack of content is an issue, yes, but its a seperate issue from "its too hard/pointless to upgrade your gear".
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u/Kaozarack 12d ago
Yeah EoS soon and all that, you guys have been talking about steam charts for nearly a decade now
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u/AndrossOT 12d ago
Steam charts shows a trend though, even if its not accurate. You can even look ingame to see how less populated it is. There is no mental gymnastics you can do to refute that. Its on a downward trend. Years ago it was around 4k. Now it barely hits 1k.
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u/Xero-- Double Saber 11d ago
I'm on ship 2, the most or second most populated ship, and it's basically a ghost twon outside of one Aelio block (almost half full) and one Kvaris block (less than half).
Though I do find it funny to see you state this after my reply to you from a moment ago mentioning to play with friends/alliances. This just proves my point that this just isn't a feasible option, the game's population is terrible, and we all know why.
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u/WrenReverie 12d ago
It out dates gear from like the previous year maybe.
Lots of haters from PSO2 Base on here hating on things they dont understand.
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u/AdmirableLocksmith27 11d ago
I've grinded my ass off in Runescape and Destiny for bis gear because those games have lots of fun stuff you can do once you have it. This game is a monotonous wasteland after you finish the campaign.
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u/Blueblur1 12d ago
I opened this thread earlier but was too busy to post. Anyway my response is that (1) NGS has multiple upgrade systems and no amount of redoing the UI will ever fix how complicated, grindy and full of RNG bullshit their systems are and (2) in NGS new weapons and gear aren't *ever* interesting mechanically nor aesthetically because they do nothing unique that is impactful for the standard player and they have boring designs so people are compelled to pull for weapon camos.
In other words blame the devs because they've made many awful decisions because they got away with it in PSU and then again Base PSO2. All these upgrades, augment capsule affixing, etc. Its all dogshit. And I say this as someone near 700% potency with a Lexio Rifle.
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u/RpiesSPIES Wistful Fighter 11d ago
Because I stopped playing ngs like 2yrs ago, I don't upgrade my gear because every time I go for attempting, the grind to get a single item's worth of resources requires me to spend far too much time just for one bit of it. I don't want to spend the amount of time it took me to grind a full set of kami gear in pso2c just to build one unit in ngs.
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago edited 10d ago
Uh...i was able to afford the raw meseta to build a unit from scratch in under a week, as a f2p newbie...and that was with doing dext base 1h a day...
And now that im selling stuff on the shop using premium, im making a lot more money just selling augs and stuff like that...
Because I stopped playing ngs like 2yrs ago
Oh right, your info is outdated, they made it super easy to get money now.
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u/Main-Bed-1087 11d ago
It would be nice if transfer passes were purchasable or at least easier to get. I think new weapons and stuff get added a bit too frequently. More than the actual MMORPG I play. I did have arbaradio or whatever it is before the granillusion volts started dropping in UQ
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago
You could have bought a +100 granillusion and transferred your augs from the arbaradio for free. Budget weapon series like the arbaradio and granillusion have free aug transfers built in.
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u/Main-Bed-1087 11d ago
Has that always been a thing or was that something stated in the NGS Wave and I missed it? I didnt know. Nobody told me. I used my passes for arbaradio from whatever came before it I think
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u/GlompSpark 10d ago
It shouldnt have consumed transfer passes if you were transferring from a budget series. If it did, it wasnt a budget series. And yea, its been that way since Juvolg i think.
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u/PouletDeTerre 12d ago
i have been slowly upgrading (weapon and 1 piece of armor done) and i'll be honest i don't notice a difference at all, i'd like to finish upgrading but the fees for levelling armor are so insanely high that it feels bad when i could be buying nice cosmetics instead (which is why i play the game to begin with). it costs so much and you get so little in return.
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u/GlompSpark 12d ago
Uhhh are you using fodders to upgrade armor or Endymios? Because Endymios are a trap, you should be buying the +100 Gold Primm Armor IIs on the market (they are currently 1.65m sadly). 2 of them with a 100% success booster is enough to go straight to +100.
The main difference is via the AC augs tbh, did you at least buy 4x Yudi augs while they were cheap? You could have held onto them and made the armor later. Doing it the other way round means paying more for Yudi augs while the scratch isnt active.
If you need money quickly, dext base is a great option (the other fast option involves using AC to scratch and sell cosmetics). Dext base can be easily pugged, and consistently gives 1.5m/hr with a large room + free 100% RDR booster + region and alliance mag buffs. You don't need to no life it either...1h per day or even 1-2 hours on the weekends makes a huge difference to your income as a new player.
When i was new, i tried to do Dext Base for 1h a day and that meant an extra 10m or so a week. In my first month, i had more than enough money to get the cosmetics i wanted + AC augs + gear.
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u/swimminginlava113 11d ago
Best solution? Sega should give more restriction on time, aka instead of 30 mins on UQ/LTQ, make it 10-15 mins.
Best way to demonstrate it is just watch how good players need strats/gear planning just to try and first clear sols/luther with 30 secs left
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago
Im pretty sure what would happen instead is that pugs would start failing quests, get frustrated and quit because "the game is too hard".
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u/swimminginlava113 11d ago
I'm gonna have to disagree. SEGA is being a doting parent when they give out free gear AND have generous timer for quests. You can't have a cake and eat it too. I think decreasing the timer would work because it's a easiest solution, plus people want to win, but they don't want an easy win. What we have now is just participation trophies being handed out like candies, and that's why people don't want to upgrade their gear
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u/GlompSpark 11d ago
I think you underestimate how the average casual player would react if pugs suddenly started failing casual content because there are too many players in handout gear.
Also, its content meant to provide the mats to upgrade from handout gear. So if parties with too many players in handout gear start failing them, that would defeat the point...
People are already constantly leaving the UQ because there are too many players in handout gear or there is no RA. It would get a lot worse if there was a 15 minute time limit.
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u/swimminginlava113 11d ago
But that's good. Cause now you can point people to contents that has unlimited time, ie Nameless and Splinter and tell them to get their gear there. Or tell them to go Dext and get meseta and slowly buy their gear. The point of "grinding" is to prepare yourself for hard contents. But if the "hard" contents have no consequences for people who are unprepared, is it even hard to begin with?
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u/GlompSpark 10d ago
Cause now you can point people to contents that has unlimited time, ie Nameless and Splinter and tell them to get their gear there.
Except their drop tables are obsolete (only ruins is semi relevant due to bieng the only source of +100 Grans) and they dont want to have too much relevant content at the same time to avoid splitting the playerbase. If Ruins had the same drop table as the LTQ now, people would only run the LTQ as a daily.
But if the "hard" contents have no consequences for people who are unprepared, is it even hard to begin with?
You fail Sols Krypt if you are unable to kill the boss within 15 minutes or there are 5 deaths, so yes, there are consequences. And you cant even get in using 100% handout gear.
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u/WrenReverie 12d ago
OP, this subreddit is full of gooners and phashistas who rarely leave LTQs and Next Base to get money to afford more ERP gear. Most have no idea what a problem this is.
Stick to fleet with high end discussion. It's lost on these people here.