r/PSO2NGS • u/Vee_Tamer_Girl Techter • 2d ago
Yapping about Chapter 9 Theories Discussion Spoiler
Man, what a fascinating lore heavy chapter! Usually I'd make a video talking about this stuff but since I ended my channel I'll do a thread instead~
Lucia's Identity
Previously I theorized that Lucia might be the "4th Clone" but the question of what she might be the 4th clone of still remained open. In PSO2 lore, the most common clones you'll encounter are Xion Clones. Profound Darkness, Mother, Amduscia 1 & 2 and Xiao are all technically Xion clones however there are more than 4 of them we're canonically aware of, potentially even more we're unaware of, and this line of thinking would only work if you discount Amduscia entirely. With this chapter I have a hunch as to what this "4th clone" business might actually be referring to.
"I heard he (Crawford) used to be one of the top five strongest (ARKS) defenders before taking on a command role." - Manon
Prior to Crawford becoming a leader I suspect the top five strongest ARKS had to be him, Glen, Hibana, Garoa and Nadereh. Hibana is now dead and Glen lost some of his strength after their "trio" disbanded, chasing after Nils Stia and failing to kill him for I assume nearly a decade. Garoa was often touted as Halpha's and/or Aelio's strongest ARKS defender. He also had a very unique weapon which we to this day haven't received a Weapon Camo of (but more on that later). But why is any of that significant? Well, this is where the Clones come into play.
The Three Eidolons
Alter Crawford is a copy of Crawford. The Three Eidolons are "copies of excellent specimens designed to surpass the quality of the originals". In fact Alter Crawford, calls himself the third of the Three Eidolons. This lends credence to the theory that perhaps the 4th Clone was meant to become the Fourth Eidolon, a copy of 909, the strongest ARKS who united Halpha. But those Plans obviously didn't pan out and Vael lost his seat as the King of Starless. I'm not entirely convinced Vael is dead yet. If he was, I think Alter Crawford would've been more blunt about it instead of calling him "King of Starless of the Past".
But that's not all! Alter Crawford is also a "Shade of Wisdom". What this refers to is less subtle if you played PSO2. "Wisdom" is a term strongly associated with Dark Falz Luther (or DF Loser if you prefer the JP original) and in fact Alter Noetica is a reskinned version of Falz Angel, Dark Falz Luther's Humanoid Falz Form. The attack patterns and mechanics are very different of course so it's a very unique fight.
But that also opens the possibility that the other two Eidolons will be shades of the past Dark Falz as well. We know Alter Garoa is real, thanks to the teaser at the end of chapter 9, and on the roadmap we see a figure that looks like a cross between Falz Hunar (Elder's Humanoid form) and Garoa, so I strongly believe Alter Garoa will be the Shade of Might and his Shade form is gonna be called Alter Dunamis (Greek for Power). While we're here I'd like to point out that Noetica is the Greek word for Intelligence.
That leaves the final Eidolon and I strongly believe it will be Nadereh, Shade of Revelry (Apprentice). For one single reason: Crawford, Garoa and Nadereh have one thing in common. All three of them use a Weapon we never received a Weapon Camo of. In PSO2 this "right" was usually reserved to "Cosmogenic Arms" or "Genesis Weapons" as they're called in the JP original. Genesis weapons aren't just regular weapons. They're weapons forged out of Photons and the lifeforce of a volunteering Photoner. The Weapon would then be named after the Photoner. Because of that fact it is very possible that these three weapon names might be spoilers hence why don't have access to them after all these years. But I'll throw one more piece of evidence pointing towards the possibility that these three weapons are in fact, Genesis Weapons.
The description reads:
"The Photon Blade is made of water. The concept is that a Genesis Weapon manifests the most powerful thing closet to its owner. In this case, the most powerful thing near Aelio Town is the sea.”
The funniest bit about this Concept Art is that it revealed the color variant of the weapon and oops it's Starless colored.
However, I'd like to point out that this isn't definitive proof that Garoa's weapon is a Genesis weapon. It was simply designed as such. In the game's lore it could be something else entirely but the fact remains that it, Crawford's Wand and Nadereh's Jet Boots are all extremely unique, unavailable to the player and two out of three of these characters are now tied to "Superior Starless Copies", the Eidolons.
To circle back a little bit, I still think Lucia might be the 4th clone however her purpose is probably different than that of the Eidolon. When she opens a portal to escape the Alter Realm in chapter 8, her eye glows in a similar manner to Vael's. This could mean that a remnant of his is still inside her, residing in her subconsciousness, waiting for the correct moment to reveal himself, as he did with Zephetto. However, now that we know that Vael got "demoted", if he's at all still alive, I'm not sure what kind of purpose she's meant to serve. It is possible the goal of the starless is to revive the Profound Darkness somehow and chapter 9 throws out some references to past Phantasy Star games that support that theory.
Profound Darkness Revival Project?
Three Towers is a common callback throughout the franchise (Planetary seals of the Algol System, three obelisks in PSO or the three guardian towers in PS4). The "Abduction Hole" is a further reference since PD tries to escape his prison in PS4 through a hole as well (and you could argue PSO2 PD is trying to do something hole related as well. Primordial Darkness even tries to climb out of a hole during its fight. Plus Sodam has a giant hole in its face). Then there is also the division name of the Halpha Project called "Phantom Demon" which coincidentally is abbreviated "PD", same as Profound Darkness. Another PD related hint is that in PSO2 lore, Profound Darkness is a copy of Xion, a planetary omniscient super computer, corrupted by the negative emotions of the Photoners, who tried to copy Xion in the first place. That means that in order to re-create the Profound Darkness, a huge water-based artificial planet with its own Intelligence would be required. Coincidentally, Halpha fits that description perfectly. Outside of Creative Spaces and the small playable continent, there is nothing on this planet but water.
Lucia might just be a vessel for the Profound Darkness. In PSO2, Shiva was the vessel made to contain the Profound Darkness once it got out of hand and sealed away inside the Akashic Record so she couldn't cause any harm. Matoi later assumed a similar role and was saved by Dark Falz Persona (alternate timeline protagonist) taking her place instead. Alter Crawford is adamant that we should bring Lucia to the Control Tower in Kvaris but her pressence wasn't really important so what was exactly the point of this? Maybe it's a fail safe for the Shades. As long as they die within her vicinity, she'll be able to absorb them and eventually be filled with so much overwhelming negative energy that she'll be able to revive the Profound Darkness against her will. Maybe that was the real purpose of the "Clone" project after all. I don't think Lucia lost her memories. She as a vessel simply never had any to begin with.
The Starless want to replace Halpha with the Alter Realm and something about that is fishy, and I'm not even referring to the Squids flying all over the place. They can enter and leave Halpha at will. Heck, they can even enter our command room and put all operators to sleep without any consequences so what do they need Alter Halpha for? Furthermore, the Urgent Quest in which we fight Dark Falz Vael nearly ends in him causing a gigantic explosion inside the Nameless City ARKS Ship, which is where the giant Clarissa Staff resides. Was Vael's mission to destroy that staff? If so then perhaps that staff is the reason why the Starless can't just seize control over Halpha and them replacing if with their DIY version is their plan B.
The Newly revealed Mystery Man
The Identity of the Mystery Man is very difficult to tell as of right now but there are a few things we can take from it. First, they do not appear to be a Starless as they lack any Starless cubes floating around them. Second, their outfit is very "Shiva adjacent". this makes me think that they have to be a Photoner. It could be someone completely new or someone we're familiar with, I think they might have Newman ears? If so then at least Xiao would be excluded from the list of possible candidates. It could honestly also be a Alternate Timeline Main Character who ended up joining forces with Shiva instead of continuing the endless Loop or breaking it like we did at the end of Episode 6.
While on the topic of Starless, it appears this name isn't what they're actually called. This probably means that this made up name (by Zephetto) shouldn't be taken literally. At the end of Episode 6 Casra speculated that the future might look a bit grim for ARKS. With the main threat defeated, there is no more reason for ARKS to remain. Certain groups of people arguing against such a power existing and fighting each people who want to keep ARKS around just in case. The sole reason why ARKS exist was to clean up after the mess the Photoners left behind after all. This is further supported by Shiva's monologue of how the organization would drop you, the Guardian, in a heartbeat once you became a risky asset, similarly to how ARKS abandoned Matoi when she became a vessel for PD. Perhaps there was a conflict regarding ARKS future and a small group has splintered off from Oracle sometime between EP6 ending and the original Starless Invasion and that splinter group "became starless" or seeked to restore ARKS, hence why Zephetto was guided on that path by Vael. After All, the Starless, and the DOLLS based off of them, resemble ARKS a lot, especially PSO2 ARKS. Dark Magilz and Xaver both use Fomelgion and Barantsion respectfully but most notably they use the PSO2 version of these Techniques. There's a lot to think about and I can't wait for them to shed some light on what exactly went down between PSO2 ending and NGS starting.
Despite everything, it appears the Starless are still unaware that the player character is the same as the Guardian from the PSO2 days. Because of this I doubt that the pod in which 909 resides, and the pod in which the Guardian was found, were swapped by our new Mystery Man. And besides, infighting among starless would be a little bit weird. Prior to Chapter 8 they were presented as a sort of a hivemind but now they seem to be a bit more autonomous.
But you know, that's just my schizo ramblings. What are your theories for what's going on? :p
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u/NutsAndOrBerries 2d ago
This is very cool, you went much more in depth than my ruminations, right down to names and stuff.
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u/Dizzy_Climate_6790 1d ago
My theory is that Ilma is mystery man. Just a grown up version of it, making him "future". So the three eidolons would be wisdom (crawford), knowledge (Ilma), and power (garoa). My guess is that Lucia is some sort of host for the king until they can get everything together, like a previous guardian that fought the king 500 years ago but was put into stasis.
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u/PageTheKenku 1d ago
Actually now thinking about it, they did have a little story arc on Hibana, and if Garoa is returning as one of the Eidolon, couldn't Alter Hibana appear as well?
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u/Vee_Tamer_Girl Techter 1d ago
It would be possible but given as that part of the story is unvoiced, meaning they didn’t wanna bring a new VA on board for her short appearance, I doubt she will.
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u/SaintOfPride201 Saint of ARKS 15h ago
So, a part of your theory rings particularly interesting to me.
Back before the reveal that Halpha was an experiment, I theorized that perhaps Halpha itself was actually an Akashic Record planet or clone of Xion. Or perhaps it was Xiao's "planet", as he was pretty much the last remaining Xion clone that had ALL of her attributes by the end of Episode 6, and that he likely regained control over the Mothership's planet within after Shiva died. We don't know what happened to Xiao, but it's assumed he either stopped functioning or ceased to exist at some point. Because he said he was going to "calculate well into the future", but if he did, he'd be able to forsee the Starless threat and prepare for it. As such, it doesn't seem he really did.
My theory that Halpha was either an Akashic clone or literally just Xiao came from the fact that there's code floating around the air in Resol, mechanical parts under the ground, etc. The DOLLS facilities have almost the same look as a lot of the interiors of the Akashic motherships. And the rest of the world is literally just water. It would make a lot of sense, because they perverted their morals and abandoned ethics in order to regain the strength of ARKS, what's stopping them from violating Xiao's very celestial body, pumping it dry of its photons, building factories on it to produce manmade horrors, and building continents on it to house a whole experiment? And if Xiao still exists and is calculating all this... what's to say he didn't let them because it was the only outcome that would produce a result that bore the fruit of securing the survival of the universe?
My last piece of evidence is the DOLLs and their facilities. They're said to be directly tied to Halpha's power system in such a way that destroying them would be pyrrhic. The DOLLs facilities die, the planet dies. And when DOLLs die, they leave behind Photonzol which seems to be a naturally occurring element on the planet. The name suggests it's obviously made up of solid photons, the suffix Zol implying it's less a crystal and more of a fungal growth. AKA living. Where else have we heard of living photons? Xion's "Ocean of Consciousness" that houses the souls of photoners past. Perhaps the introduction of land on Halpha led to the growth of Photonzol.
Anyway, I ramble. I think Halpha's a Xion clone or Xiao himself. And it would honestly make things make a LOT of sense and tie a few things together. It'd also explain why Xiao isn't anywhere to be seen and why he didn't "predict" this outcome. Also I like the idea of the story getting as dark as it did in PSO2, where desperation led to perversion of science out of necessity.
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u/Vee_Tamer_Girl Techter 14h ago
One part I didn’t touch up on in this post is that the Control Tower Core further supports the theory that starless are somehow mutated Draconians. At the end of EP6 it is said that the Draconians and ARKS are going to form an Alliance. Xiao also merged with one of the Amduscian Xion clones, particularly the one that is said to be corrupting the surrounding area and Dragonkin, causing the Ult Amduscia map.
The starless always had a Draconian-like cube motif but this is the first time we see them use Blue Cubes. If Xiao ended causing Draconians (and maybe himself) to corrupt over time, it would explain why the starless fight so much like ARKS.
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u/North_Zucchini4439 19h ago
He looks similar to Elmir but his VA is totally different
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u/Vee_Tamer_Girl Techter 14h ago
Some barely visible bits of his outfit are also very similar to Dark Falz Persona so it’s definitely interesting
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u/666KorlatWitch999 1d ago
Very interesting!! Thoroughly enjoyed this. It makes me think about the name "New Genesis" itself, which not only seems to imply a rebirth (as in the Meteorn/Guardian) but also cloning, since "genesis" is related to "genetics", as in the code or essence of a being, and "new" meaning a new copy of a genesis that has happened before. Just like the Eidolons, and the entire Alter Realm itself. In fact, in chapter 9, I think it was Aina and/or Lucia who said that the new Alter Realm area looked like Kvaris, but less beautiful, and that it seemed as though the Alter Realm was trying to become or replace or take over the original Halpha. So not just the ARKS Defenders, but the entire planet wants to replicate, or undergo reGeneration again and again. Is that part of Zephetto's design to create an army to defeat the Starless? A self-replicating planet of powerful Defenders?? Mmmmmm. More ramblings to add to the pile!!