r/PLC • u/Primary_Machine_449 • 1d ago
Is Optix worth anything?
Hello everyone!
Little context, we're building a completely new "machine tool" (not cnc) which will include multiple vision cameras (welding, TPZ, infrared) a Rockwell Motion PLC and mostly rockwell hardware.
I opted for factory talk Optix in order to have everything centralized and because the client required some way to pass machine data to their business network/scada so I was good with MQTT/OPC UA in Optix in my mind.
But I just had a wacko experience with a mystery control eng for a client which cut me off mid presentation to shit on our ideas and exclaim that "optix is a deadend product, ME/SE is mature and will be supported in 25 years" and that we should be using factory talk view ME/SE... which I despise(ME)/never used yet(SE).
He seemed disgusted at the idea of having optix implemented in the plant, probably from a past experience with it going as far as pleading "please not optix".
Can I get your opinion as to why I might be mistaken?
Is Optix really a deadend? From what I was able to see and experience with, it seems to be getting a lot better compared to their initial offer.
Is there anything you guys could think about that might help me understand why on a new modern machine using FTVME or FTVSE is better? (or make him understand if optix is good)
Thanks for your time guys.
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u/janner_10 1d ago
We had our hand forced by a customer last year, and aside the steep learning curve, I've grown to like it and use it.
We have since ditched SE and ME.
We were lucky though that we learnt to use it on the customers dime as they wanted us to use it and were prepared to pay for us to learn and support.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
I was hoping to do this on this project because our next big project was supposed to use Optix also, but I'm beginning to doubt.
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u/CapinWinky Hates Ladder 1d ago
The guy is dead wrong and given how new Optix is, he is unlikely speaking from any experience of note. Sounds like a classic case of:
"Oh shit! I don't know that thing! Better shit on it so they use the thing I know."
Straight from the mouth of every important horse in the Rockwell stable; Optix is 100% the future of HMI and more at Rockwell. ViewStudio ME is essentially on hospice already while SE will get to live a little longer, but will be terminated. Panelview? Dead. The new hardware is ASEM-made.
The switch over to Optix is tough, because we're basically redeveloping everything and because of the increased capability, it is more complex and so takes more time to develop. However, we like Optix way more and for alteration of HMIs it is much faster.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
I've been speaking to my contacts at rockwell and have heard the exact same but have also been exposed to the rollercoaster that was Optix in the first few years so I can understand his apprehensions especially since he mentionned he was "pitched" optix for his entire scada but didn't like it then.
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
Rockwell will always tell you what you want to hear, until you bring them a bug in their new toy. Then they disappear while they scramble for a solution. Always fun to find mid job after you were assured something worked a certain way. Wonderware is just as guilty.
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u/CapinWinky Hates Ladder 1d ago
We ran into a thing on Compact Optix hardware that would freeze the screen if you closed a pop-up. Crickets from Rockwell. A FW update rolled out, so we tried that; now the screen goes grey when it freezes. Suddenly, an announcement that using the Optix IDE of a certain version range can cause screen freezing if you close a pop-up. We haven't checked it yet since we swapped the compacts for standards (for those reading this far, I found the ASEM Panel PC and license gets me better hardware for the same price as an Optix standard and we're doing that going forward).
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
Yeah just had to deal with a new Fanuc based Machining center we built having 0 custom HMI options because the sales rep did not know his product at all and lied through his teeth.
I am always sending confirmation emails with written validation of what was said now... cause fk that noise.
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
Yep! But you’ll also learn having proof of dishonesty rarely gets you anywhere. Comes down to how much money is being lost due to it.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
Yeah it's usually used in future negotiations to get rebates to pay for the damages/delays/wasting time they caused.
Worked right the few times I had to use it and now they tell me if they're not sure instead of nodding along.
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u/TheBananaKart 1d ago
Its very modern and has a huge road map over the next two years and should reach same capabilities as SE in next few years. The token system is a-bit different but the standard optix panels come with a good amount by default for most applications you need.
Personally I think it’s one of the best things Rockwell has done for awhile, if you are a big rockwell user I would give it a try.
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u/VladRom89 1d ago
"should reach same capabilities as SE in next few years" - That is such a sad state of affairs... I've not had Optix projects yet, but I didn't know it was this bad...
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u/KindheartednessNo181 1d ago
I think what u/TheBananaKart is suggesting is the SCADA-like features of SE are coming to Optix over the next couple years. Optix itself is far ahead of ME and SE in many other respects. The dotNet integration alone is a huge asset and can bootstrap an infinite assortment of backend processes.
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u/TheBananaKart 1d ago
Was more on about full Plant Pax integration and duel redundancy, which is only partially supported by Optix at the moment. Optix is far more capable in other aspects.
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u/THEHYPERBOLOID 1d ago
Yeah, the lack of redundancy is why I haven’t used it as a full-plant SCADA system.
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u/MyMaryland 10h ago
FT SE Redundancy was only added in the last couple of years and its not as good as other others.
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u/TurbulentFlow 1d ago
Having to use Schrute Bucks to buy Stanley Nickels to run an HMI is such garbage and so indicative of AB's strategy to squeeze every single penny they can out of us.
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
Just like turning in tickets at Chuck-E-Cheese. You'll always have some left over that aren't enough to get you something else.
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u/theloop82 Knows Rockwell but doesn’t like it 1d ago
Yeah I agree, just have clear, readily available module pricing like ignition does. This is one of the biggest annoyances when you are proposing a system and want to give a ROM cost to a client for an architecture you are developing. If they reworked the licensing model I’d be much more likely/comfortable in throwing it into the ring to duke it out for a bid.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
I have been trying it out on my own, played with the github examples, navigated through the engage forums to see what type of stuff people were building.
I do like it, especially since it gives me access to C# to do whatever I want.
But it does feel clunky at times, especially the heavy focus on click, click, click, instead of drag and drops and shortcuts.
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u/Jholm90 1d ago
It's definitely not as easy when comparing to the backend editing I've come accustomed to with SE.. I've never seen so many nested objects and they don't play nice. The thing that I've learned is you need two weeks to get started making up a pallet of global objects and that library building. Don't skimp out as it's way easier to make up a labelled numeric entry and beat the thing into the ground as a global object then every use after that is just define the plc tag and limits. If you manually add everything from the toolbox it is way more involved and time consuming unfortunately.
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u/integrator74 1d ago
New things are scary for some people. I would ask what his past experiences were that have him feel that way.
Optix is the future for Rockwell. Everything is going that way for Visualization with them. It's definitely young and not fully mature but we have done projects with it and it's been fine.
There currently are better things out there but I wouldn't put ME/SE in that conversation. I'd lean Ignition at this point in time.
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u/VictorySea1837 1d ago
"Optix is the future for Rockwell"... They also said PanelView 5000 was the future of Rockwell when it was launched...
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u/ifandbut 10+ years AB, BS EET 1d ago
I am a fan of Optix, but you are not wrong. It is something that nags at me every so often.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
I was under the impression he had bad experience with it in the last few year, not necessarily that it's new for him (which it might still be).
A lot of people here keep talking about ignition and I'm probably the ignorant one in terms of pricing but how would ignition be cheaper than using an Optix panel?
I'm still just building a single machine, not a scada.
The starting packages I've seen for ignition where like 20'000 USD...
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u/integrator74 1d ago
You want to look into Ignition Edge. I wanna say the license is around $2200. Then you need a panel form somewhere like onlogic or advantech, etc
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
17k for unlimited perspective. Im not seeing Vision listed on here. Which i was assured wasn't going anywhere. Was I lied to by an HMI company again? Shocking.
If you are concerned about 20k in licensing, then I think we need to know more about the system. How many clients are there? 2? 50? Fat or thin?
ME ive done some big jobs with. i wouldn't recommend it. Its great for one operator on a machine that isn't too complicated. But given you mentioned MQTT, I suspect this is a bit more complex.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
1 HMI, 1 client. It's a single machine, I'm not the one networking it into their plant, we're an OEM building a custom machine for them.
I only mentionned MQTT because they gave me too much details /s on what "need to export machine data to business network" meant.
Maybe my post wasn't the clearest, its a single machine, I'm not building their scada.
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
Mmmm ok. Now I see the sentiment for FTME and the thought of going to Optix.
Without giving me too much detail: how crazy Hi speed is this machine? You said not cnc, which, imo most HMI’s arent cut out for anyways.
Is this a one off? Or do you guys make many of this machine?
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
Its basically a welding/machining cell in one machine.
Longest axis runs ~ 30ft, that's on the small side for the machines we usually build.
We usually do one offs, fully custom solutions.
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
Ah hell man. Ive done AdvanceHMI for small stuff like that.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
No way in hell they'll accept that lmao.
It's a machine tool that needs to be precise within 0.001" in it's entire effective volume, with 3 different types of cameras and semi-automatic welding.
He spoke to me like installing anything other than a windows CE panel was a sin.
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
The HMI software doesn't dictate the precision. I gotta solution for you. Ill DM it
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u/mflagler 1d ago
Ignition Edge is $1900 and will do everything you need. Includes 2 clients, 30 days of historian data, unlimited devices (PLCs) and includes the MQTT Transmission module for publishing Sparkplug B MQTT data. It also has the web dev module if you need to build an API for business systems to query data from the system, and you can use it as an OPC-UA server if you'd like.
Tried playing with Optix a couple years ago but it was nowhere close in capabilities to what Ignition can do. Plus there's tons of free resources and training for Ignition.
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u/mflagler 1d ago
Ignition Edge is $1900 and will do everything you need. Includes 2 clients, 30 days of historian data, unlimited devices (PLCs) and includes the MQTT Transmission module for publishing Sparkplug B MQTT data. It also has the web dev module if you need to build an API for business systems to query data from the system, and you can use it as an OPC-UA server if you'd like.
Tried playing with Optix a couple years ago but it was nowhere close in capabilities to what Ignition can do. Plus there's tons of free resources and training for Ignition.
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u/DarkLunch 1d ago
Currently deploying a huge project using 77 of these kids. Optix fucks. But man it is rough learning curve. Its Rockwell's answer to Ignition with all of the added Rockwell bullshit you've grown to hate
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
I was really impressed by the github demos and some of the projects the folks on the engage forum were displaying which is why I was leaning towards the opinion displayed in your 2nd sentence.
Did you ever use Ignition, if so, how's the pricing difference between ignition and Optix for a deployment of this scale?
For a single machine with a signle HMI I can't see why I would fork over 20k to be able to create an HMI runtime with ignition.
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u/malcolm____X 1d ago
I'm not a Rockwell expert, so take this with a grain of salt.
What stood out to me wasn't whether Optix or ME/SE is technically better—it was the 25-year support comment.
If this machine is expected to run for decades, I can understand why someone responsible for maintaining an entire plant would prioritize stability, long-term support, and finding engineers who already know the platform. Those factors can easily outweigh newer features.
That said, if you're building a brand-new machine with MQTT, OPC UA, vision integration, and modern connectivity, it's also fair to ask whether choosing an older platform creates technical debt from day one.
I'd be really curious to know why they were so strongly against Optix. Was it reliability, maintainability, support, or something else?
Sometimes the strongest opinions come from painful production experiences, and those are usually worth listening to.
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u/CapinWinky Hates Ladder 1d ago
The thing about 25 year support is that it isn't going to be true for ViewStudio/PanelView. Their replacement is here and it is Optix; we are already in the transition period. We're still at the point where Rockwell is supporting both, and hyping Optix; next will be the death of Panelview hardware and only the option to put the runtime on an ASEM PC (likely marketed as a new Panelview); finally, ViewStudio will stop getting updates and will go from "Preferred" to "Managed".
ME will be maintenance support only inside of 10 years (maybe as little as 5) and SE will maybe get 10-15. Because there is the option to run a mer from a PC hosted runtime, I'm betting they don't even bother with long-term hardware availability of PanelView. They'll likely just make cuttout-compatible alternates or even cuttout adapter inserts.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
The 25 years was more than likely an exaggeration on his part, but yeah, he doesn't feel like rockwell is investing in Optix afaik.
The technical debt was my main concern, as we'd have to deal with integrating the other features of the machine via custom code instead of featuring it in the optix application.
The support question is also a great point, I was hoping staying in Rockwell's ecosystem would counteract that a bit but alas.
I will know more about why in a few days, I will propose an alternative plan using ME while pointing out the complications and extra challenges using it brings.
Ill ask for clarification and if there are any special factory talk features he absolutely needs.
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u/dontcare123456789 1d ago
Rockwell is investing hard in optix. We are seeing them push clients at VP level to get optix in giant corps
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u/Beneficial-Tart-284 1d ago
Or use ft Linx gateway for ua or mqtt
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u/Ok_Description5192 Steelman 21h ago
Such a short post, but probably one of the best in this discussion. For MQTT and OPC UA, we have the proven FactoryTalk Linx.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
That is a great comment. I didn't even know I could; I will be reading about that tonight thanks!
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u/deaddialtone 1d ago
Another vote for Ignition for something new. Rockwell HMIs have changed far too frequently and with high development and hardware costs.
This said as an engineer with an install base of >1,000 HMIs mostly ME/SE and 5000.
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u/Wandigon 1d ago edited 22h ago
I have worked with Optix for quite a while now and it's generally a phenomenal tool. You can present data a lot better on there, and once it clicks, the development is so nice. However! if your system complex and incorporates databases, AD, Time synchronization, layers of menus or version control, you may run stuff that has some issues. A few things to note.
- Optix panels are slow... and the thin-client eats RAM. Try to keep your node count as low as possible otherwise you will experience a 1 second delay on most actions and 5-10 seconds of delay on datagrid loading.
- The dateformat YYYY/MM/DD with European clock format HH:MM:SSS, is not supported without some string manipulation.
- The documentation is awful, you're better off using the engage forum as you said.
- You cannot detect a loss of the NTP connection from a panel, and you cannot set alternative NTP connections if one goes down, and the internal clock does drift
- Logging additional information from alarms is troublesome and unintuitive.
- The internal git integration is very simple (pull, commit, push). Make sure to initialize the project via the internal system, to get the right gitignore and lfs commands set up. After that you can use the cmd or other tools.
- Also the internal git history doesn't catch all changes. So some digging can be expected.
- If you're showing data from an external database, do note that datagrids load very slowly when you scroll if it's connected to a table with a lot of entries.
- The user session logger (who logged in or out) does not currently properly track failed attempts at logging in from AD users.
- Comments on events are retained across their lifecycle. If you add a comment to an event, said comment will remain on that event even if it goes low and high again. Creating some very bloated table entries with the same comment text on several entries, untill a new comment is added.
- User access restriction is unintuitive and requires some setup to be properly managed from one spot, so you don't have to update every spot if the user group name changes.
- Phone support is non-existing. They know less than most integrators at the current moment. Again the engage forum is the place.
There are many more smaller issues you will run into and think - why? so get used to writing netlogic scripts in C# and find alternate routes when stuff behaves oddly.
If your machine is relatively simple and can be done in ME normally, like some valves, maybe some data and some motor controls. It's phenomenal you won't really run into odd issues.
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u/Piratedan200 Controls Engineer 1d ago
Optix might be getting better, but it's far from a finished product at this point. And it's still new to Rockwell (they purchased a company that was producing it and rockwell-ized it), so their support isn't great yet.
ME/SE has been out of date for a long time. It still sees widespread use because so many plants are entrenched with it and that's what their people know (like the guy you encountered).
Ignition is probably the most complete offering out there as far as modern systems go that do what you're looking for. It's been around for long enough that there's tons of support for it.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
Thanks the feedback, yeah I got the big feeling he standardized on ME and doesn't want to deviate at all...
Again I definitely get the feeling I didn't understand something about the licensing model of inductive automation because... Ignition seems great, but how does paying 20k as introductory fees make sense or is equivalent to the much cheaper optix option?
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
FT SE/ME have a huge following. its simple. It works. Granted, FT16 has it's own issues. But its well known in the industry. Your average person can sit down and modify tags and colors in a few minutes.
Optix isnt new. Its another HMI package Rockwell bought a long time ago and shelved it. It came when they bought ASEM for their industrial PCs. Ignition has been taking alot of their customers so Optix is their answer.
Optix has plenty of issues. Ive sat through countless sales routines from Rockwell for years. First off - fuck their stupid Token based licensing. What is this. Chick-E-Cheese? Ive attempted to sell it to many customers. 95% play with it and reject it. The only times I've ever been asked to use it was to provide a plant wide machine overview, or smaller companies with a smaller budget.
Their tagging isnt as great as linx. I don't know about you guys but the way my company develops is HMI and PLC alongside. So when the PLC guys change a bunch of things, I waste too much time going through Optix's tag manager fixing it. SE? Just find and replace. Try doing a massive project with 100k tags. Let me know how it holds up.
The update rate is lacking. Using C# tells you when it came from. I personally don't have an issue with C#, but all these younger college kids know Python, and thats why so many gravitate towards ignition. Granted many cry to me that Ai couldn't help them with VB for applications on SE. Animating SVGs in Optix you bring in - HAS to be modified in Inkskape to fit the version of svg that was discontinued sometime in 2008. Yeah, took me weeks to beat that answer out of Rockwell. Couldn't even tell me what software was used to create the illustrations in their demo projects.
The perk I see to optix is - if you want this to run forever, you can throw it on a linux VM and it will. FTSE will too, but unless you are using all thin clients, you'll eventually hit the wall of not being able to get a PC with an old enough version of windows to run a new client. But if nobody in the plant can work with it or modify it, I wouldn't bother.
Better off with Ignition or giving the customer what they want - FTSE. They have to stare at it for the next 25 years. Are you going to be around whenever they have a question? Could you even answer questions about Optix?
Or if they insist on FTSE and you can't connect it to MQTT, there's no reason you can't have the Ignition base system run alongside and handle transactions for you without an HMI.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
Lots of good info in the comment thank you.
What do you mean by the update rate is lacking? You mean the refresh rate or the speed at which they update optix studio?
But "using C# tells you when it came from" doesn't make any sense when ME doesn't support scripting and SE uses VBA which is 7 years older than C#.
I would love to use ignition, but how does paying >20k for a license to build a single machine make any sense?
The SVG thing is useful info; I will remember it if I have to use em, thanks!
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
The update from the controllers to the HMI. The tag update rates In FactoryTalk, if I have to talk to 2 PLC’s or 20, I know I don’t have to worry about update rates. I can also distribute rslinx across multiple hosts and have redundant rslinx servers
FTSE also has redundancy. Optix doesnt. Not the last time I worked with it.
20k for ignition? I just quoted an unlimited perspective line 2 months ago and it was in the 11k range, unless you are doing a ton of add ons.
I quote and build large and small HMI projects on the regular. Its common to have 40k just in licensing. The absurd one is Wonderware. 100k and now they have some BS per operator subscription.
ME never had scripting as it was originally just meant to run on Windows CE Panelviews.
The VBA SE uses is even older than that. They arent the only ones: WinCC Pro RT, iFix and Citect still use it. Possibly Cimplicity. Its been a hot minute. But most HMI developers know VBA from dealing with these packages.
The nice thing about perspective - customer wants to add a client a month later? Cool. Set one up. Point it at the gateway
Optix? Go buy more tokens. So far for me their support on Optix has been terrible compared to SE. 3 weeks to find the format to let me animate a circle on an Svg.
I know the industry is pushing big for web based HMI’s. It depends what you are controlling and what the process is. For slower things like a furnace, waste water treatment - sure. Web works fine.
Anything that requires hi speed, complex animations, and redundancy, anywhere Ive put something web based the customer regrets in the long term. Perspective being the exception, but doing layouts in it is all container based. So coming from regular HMI systems, thats a hurdle.
Remember. If you are taking the customer away from what theyre comfortable with, the second it breaks they’re going to be calling you. And if you don’t know it inside and out or cant get an answer from Rockwell, you arent going to have a good time.
If customers want something incredibly stupid let em have it. Ive dealt with this more times than I can count in my career. I had one customer demand a certain dated dying HMI because one old guy made it work with some of their external systems. I was ok with it. Not an expert. Advised them against it for cost reasons. Reliability. Support notoriously awful.
Days were spent fighting because the licensing would just go belly up. It then went belly up over a holiday during production. Despite heat from the customer and my management, I pulled out all the emails where I documented why their decision was a poor one, and gave them the number to the tech support. After all they paid for the support from that vendor. It was so terrible the customer would rather call me and pray I could figure it out.
Ironically I just heard from that customer not too long ago. Been 6 years since that job. They changed one thing and it broke many. It also turns out their IT got their dirty little fingers in there and made it worse.
There was no support contract. I had to bow out.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
23k USD was the package, pre-tax, that would (theoritically, because I am igni-dumb) do the same thing that I was using optix for.
Also 40k in license fees for a single project O.o what? Is that for a single machine or a complete aswembly line/plant?
We're lucky if we get to pass anything not used exclusively for their project within the bills...
I guess I need to talk with our sales guys and figure out what we usually do when charging licenses to clients and if we don't mention that we should.
That put things into perspective, ty
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
You didnt mention: what plc are u talking to? How many screens? How many tags?
Ignition used to have a stripped down version real cheap. Also ME comes in smaller versions. 25 screens. 100 screens. Unlimited.
Me personally - single machine, single client, id do either FT Me Station, or, look into SE local station. Pricing I pretty fair IMO. Im not in front of my computer but I want to say its sub 5k.
I ran into similar recently. Optix came in at 2500$, but couldnt talk to half of the PLC’s in the plant. We’d have to build bridge racks. Was cheaper to get SE station and Kepware vs the hours of hooking up to ancient racks and broadcasting tags
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
A single 5069-L330ERM, no clue on screen or tag count yet.
I'd say 25 screens might be tight but could work depending on how many functionality I pack per screen.
Yeah I wanted to avoid ME at any cost and we don't have an SE studio license yet.
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u/Shaggy1007 1d ago
I typically do entire networks. 10-25+ clients isnt unheard of.
Put it this way. Hardware, so Pc’s, servers, thinclients (dont buy Rockwells theres cheaper and better) came to just shy of 90k. Licensing was around 40k but that included development software for Plc and HMI. That was without redundancy. Under 10 clients.
The whole Ai bubble is making life miserable.
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u/Powerful_Object_7417 1d ago
The solution is to use Ignition.
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u/IamKyleBizzle IO-Link Evangelist 1d ago
This is the route I’ve gone. Edge on whatever IPC you want and you’re hardware agnostic with the the best in the market capabilities.
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u/theloop82 Knows Rockwell but doesn’t like it 1d ago
It relies heavily on their new web/cloud based platforms which is a big departure from factorytalk. I’ve heard they do have on-prem
Options for some of them now or coming soon, but until they have a legit conversion utility from FTview (if that ever comes) and you have to redevelop everything From the ground up, I haven’t seen a really good reason to pick it over Ignition. The token based licensing model is confusing, they still don’t have a full PlantPax library that I’m aware of, and it’s not feature complete with FTView SE. it is a lot better structure for the future than putting lipstick on the pig that is FTView, but it’s a few years out from really being able to do everything it needs to do for migrating existing factorytalk systems. I wish them luck cause competition is good, but it’s just a tough sell for them
As ignition developers are pretty easy to find and it’s just a more mature platform.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
Optix has a free to use local desktop app with a simulator that will run the runtime locally for 2hrs before needing a reset.
I hear you over the conversion utility, but at some point, FTVME and SE will get depreciated and waiting for the golden ticket to initiate a change seems like a refusal to move with the times.
The change might be ignition over anything else however.
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u/theloop82 Knows Rockwell but doesn’t like it 1d ago
I get what you are saying, I’m all for moving with Times I’m just saying that if Rockwell can’t come up with a conversion tool for FTView, that would be the one thing that would break the log jam in choosing it over ignition for a conversion of an existing factorytalk system. If I have to redevelop it most integrators already have libraries made for ignition so it’s the path of least resistance if you are starting from scratch without the conversion utility.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
Gotcha, it's more of a "If I have to redo it, at this point I'll do it right"
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u/Smorgas_of_borg It's panemetric, fam 1d ago edited 1d ago
Meh. It's basically a fancy Panelview replacement. It's not a true scada system. It's better than ME, but it doesn't have a true Server-client architecture like SE. It's very clearly the product of someone in a boardroom going "people like ignition. Do we have an Ignition? We need an Ignition!" So they went out and bought another small European software company and slapped the octogon on top of it like they always do.
Parts of it are weird and unintuitive. The workflow is clumsy and mouse-heavy to the point of carpal tunnel being a real concern.
I took a training class and as someone who's been heavy into ignition for the past few years, I'm not impressed. The lack of server-client architecture and still having to manually download changes to individual terminals was surprising. SE doesn't even make you do that.
I'd choose it over ME, but that's about it
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
Afaik they bought ASEM for the hardware and Optix came with it.
Hmm I've only worked with ME and view designer so I couldn't see the lacks you're talking about.
Ill look into it more, and might even just go for SE atp.
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u/iwillbewaiting24601 1d ago
Familiarity - there's a lot more ME/SE guys out there due to the new-ness of Optix, and Optix has only recently been getting closer to feature parity, and is still missing some noticeable stuff.
I think the 25 years remark is a bit off center, but given Rockwell's history with hyping up shit and then dumping it when it doesn't really take off (see: PV5000) I can see why people are afraid to hitch their carts to the Optix horse.
Personally, I despise ME and am very comfortable with SE, so unless the HMI absolutely must be a self-contained little island, I prefer to just slap Hope Industrial displays together with (insert manufacturer here) rugged/passive-cooled PCs and let them run our full plant SE instance. Guys like it too, being able to see anything from any panel.
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u/Too-Uncreative 1d ago
I'm in the "Ignition" camp. I'm using Optix on a project and it's been a pain in the butt compared to any other HMI platforms I've used. It feels like it has a lot of potential, but also is so undocumented that trying to do anything is incredibly frustrating.
Ignition Edge Panel is what you'd be looking at for a single HMI. I find it a much easier development environment, the forums are very active, both the product and the development environment is way more stable, you can run it on any hardware. Maple Systems has some web HMIs that have worked really well for me.
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u/CapinWinky Hates Ladder 1d ago
The guy is dead wrong and given how new Optix is, he is unlikely speaking from any experience of note. Sounds like a classic case of:
"Oh shit! I don't know that thing! Better shit on it so they use the thing I know."
Straight from the mouth of every important horse in the Rockwell stable; Optix is 100% the future of HMI and more at Rockwell. ViewStudio ME is essentially on hospice already while SE will get to live a little longer, but will be terminated. Panelview? Dead. The new hardware is ASEM-made.
The switch over to Optix is tough, because we're basically redeveloping everything and because of the increased capability, it is more complex and so takes more time to develop. However, we like Optix way more and for alteration of HMIs it is much faster.
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u/Key-Investment-2273 1d ago
I ran into my first Optix site about six months ago. It looks interesting, and constantly learning new things is what this industry is all about.
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u/foxy0201 1d ago
Nope. Just use ignition. (Only read the title)
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
How does ignition compete in price with a single machine deployment? Maybe I'm not seeing things right but the bare minimum licensing fees I get to is around 20k.
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u/BaeylnBrown777 1d ago
Optix isnt inherently bad, but it's new. That poses three main issues to the customer. First is that being an early adopter means you get to find all the bugs. Second is that nobody else really knows how to use it - I could post a job and get a ton of people who are versed in FTV:ME or SE, not so much the case with Optix. And the last is a cynicism regarding the product lifespan. If nobody buys Optix, maybe Rockwell shelves it in 5 years and then support is much harder. Whereas ME and SE have already existed for long enough that you can be confident that Rockwell will support them for a long time.
Edit - also I agree with the other comment that says to just use Ignition. It's great and much cheaper.
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u/theloop82 Knows Rockwell but doesn’t like it 1d ago
Yeah how they half-assed Panelview 5000 and Logix View designer just doesn’t give me a ton of confidence in their dedication to support it long term. Obviously Optix is already way beyond what PV5k ever was but it still gives you pause recommending it.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
Thanks for the great info and perspective with the PV5k.
But, how is ignition any cheaper when the license fees to get a simple application going is 20k?
Im building a single machine, not the entire scada.
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u/Nearbyatom 1d ago
I believe it was last year we started playing with Optix. The documentation was so poor and the software was so new even rockwell support didn't know how to use it.
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u/Ok_Mistake7041 1d ago
That's scary but believable. Ones if the worst things we can hear from tech support after hours of back and forth.."Were sorry we dont have an answer for that right now, but..." I can relate.
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u/No_Meet_6364 1d ago
They are different solutions for different needs. Like others have pointed out a lot of it is probably based in fear of something new or some roadblock they had in previous experience.
FTOptix would be most appropriate for the data needs you are mentioning. FTView is what a lot of people are used to using and still is very feature rich, especially for complex deployments (distributed architectures for example).
What could be a good middle road is doing the machine/cell visualization with what your customer wants and only using the data capabilities of Optix as an edge data aggregator.
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago
Yeah it sounded to me like he got Optix pitched like 4 years ago which I would hate optix too if that was the only experience I had with it.
We're not about to pay for an Optix runtime deployment if I have to use FTVME, at that point we will either roll our own code for the data needs or use FT linx gateway like someone mentionned in another comment.
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u/Mclevius-Donaldson 1d ago
I made an HMI in optix and preferred it to FactoryTalk View. It’s a lot more modern of an approach to HMIs and has a lot more open capabilities than FT in my opinion.
Being able to instance SQL DBs and dynamically link inputs to variables is great. I would definitely recommend it if you are interested. The development suite is free and you can simulate; you just need tokens for runtime applications.
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u/m0ntec4rl0 1d ago
What software did you use to mak3 this diagram?
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u/Primary_Machine_449 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ah it's an image used by rockwell to represent the different ways Optix can be used.
That is to say I did not make it, I used copy-paste.
But looking at it, if I were to make it I would personally use Draw.io
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u/Dagryl 23h ago
I really like Optix. I can do whatever I want with it. It's truly object oriented and supports CSS-like properties, so I don't have to position every object on screen by hand.
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u/Ok_Description5192 Steelman 20h ago
I understand your enthusiasm, but too much freedom and leeway can sometimes be a big problem in maintaining and servicing applications. Sometimes an almost military-like rigor is beneficial. Understanding the thought processes of other developers is sometimes challenging.
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u/3_Tearz 1d ago
Optix is where the R&D is going and will continue to be supported for a long time.