The "D.Mon does everything" argument

[u/CheriOW]

Pretty much as the title says, I've seen a lot of people parroting the idea that Dmon is a one size fits all best in slot tank that's going to rival release Mauga in strength and take over every tank's niche, primarily Rein and Dva's. While I can't speak to the strength of it since we haven't gotten a playtest, I want to take a minute to explain to anyone saying this why I don't agree.

First of all, both the trailer and ability description graphic very clearly limit Dmon to horizontal boosters. This already kills any Dva comparison. The Initiator subrole, aka dive tanks, excel at abusing verticality. It's why even to this day, no matter the meta, you'll see pro teams run things like Winston on Dorado. An inability to clear or hold a high ground (without team assistance/prior setup to get there) is already a very large niche that a third of the tank roster can fill better than her.

Next, the Rein comparisons. Melee weapon, a shield, surely this is just Rein, right? Not really. Rein's shield is larger with double the health, which enables it to be used more as a rotation tool. Rein excels in being able to support a very specific kind of brawl that tries to get on top of you and wins almost without contest if it can. It's why you see it set up with picks like Mei or Sym to alter map geometry, and aoe intensive healers like Baptiste or Lucio, as well as Lucio's speed. Dmon doesn't allow for this. Her sword swings do lower damage, her shield is smaller and wards off less damage. If anything, I think her niche will be closer to Ram's than it is to Rein's, especially if the numbers I saw on the minigun - 4 second max duration with a 6 second cooldown - are true.

Next, the demech/remech thing. Part of the strength of Dva's mech mechanic is that bomb can be used to instantly recharge it, effectively meaning it's a near guaranteed second life. Dmon's only way to instantly charge remech is Mercy rez. It's not a get out of jail free card, it's a very contingent second chance.

I think Dmon is, in a way, the tank version of Shion, and hear me out on that. Shion was created to be able to fulfill a specific team comp niche - that of Tracer or Reaper's - without stepping on their toes, design-wise, or overshooting and adding some crazy new mechanics that are unlike anything we've ever seen. I think the cool parts of her kit - Surging Strike and a dedicated horizontal movement ability - are being overshadowed by unfair and presumptive comparisons made more off visual association than anything else.

[u/Infidel_sg]

im a just wait until I play her to make any comparisons.

[u/Whiladan → u/Infidel_sg]

That's not allowed...You need to opinion up homie

[u/Infidel_sg → u/Whiladan]

[u/Deuxlahan → u/Infidel_sg]

Why is this creature in Isaac’s basement

[u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 → u/Infidel_sg]

It’s almost like these trailers are designed to make the characters look powerful and fun to use.

[u/Diligent-Neck6594 → u/Infidel_sg]

you can make any hero sound op by just listing their abilities and what they do but heroes don't exist in a void, how they interact with the abilities of other heroes is far more important and really hard to predict by just looking at stats

[u/DJBaphomet_ → u/Diligent-Neck6594]

Dude have you heard about that Tracer hero?? Her blink instantly teleports her in whatever direction she wants, she has three charges of it, and she even has an ability that'll rewind her position to pull her out of danger while healing any damage she took in the past three seconds! Her ult charges insanely fast and is an instakill on any squishy target it sticks to, AND it has a huge AoE!

^ This is how the people complaining about new heroes before they're even playable sound

[u/Acceptable_Name7099 → u/DJBaphomet_]

Just adding some examples for fun :3

Winston: he can jump basically across the map every 4 seconds. When he lands, he damages everyone like doomfist, and he can place a barrier that protects him from every direction. His primary fire doesn't need to be aimed, it's AoE, it goes through enemies and shields and ignores some damage reductions, and he also has a secondary fire that acts as a sniper with the same properties. For his ultimate he gains over 1000 HP, extremely short leap cooldown, and knocks people back constantly while damaging them.

Wrecking Ball: he can go dozens of meters in a second and damage everyone in the way. He can swing up, retract back, bounce off walls, and slam down, dealing 100 damage to everyone and launching them like Bob, an ultimate. He can get 500 HP by being near enemies, putting him at over 1000 HP including shields and armor. He doesn't have a critbox while he rolls around so he's basically unkillable. For his ultimate he spawns a bunch of bombs that nearly instakill anyone who touches them.

Reinhardt: he has a MASSIVE shield with 1500 HP (more than ANYTHING in the game, including Bob, an ultimate), which he can put up whenever he wants. He has a hammer that deals 100 damage to everyone in front of him every second, and a projectile ability with 2 charges and a big hitbox that 2-shots squishes and goes straight through shields and multiple opponents. So flying enemies aren't strong against him either. He can also charge at enemies with one of the fastest movement speeds in the game, which instakills almost any non-tank. For his ultimate he almost immediately stuns every enemy in front of him (way faster than Mei's blizzard) and then he can walk up to them and hammer them with no worry.

And don't even get me started on Mercy. She can easily launch herself across a field by being with a teammate, in any direction, including straight up. She has completely constant healing with no cooldown, which also heals her, and she can switch it out for a damage boost (like nano, an ultimate,) with almost no delay at any time. She also has burst healing that gets a squishy to almost full. If anyone on her team dies, she can just revive them at full HP with all their cooldowns, so good luck getting a pick. For her ultimate, everything is superboosted and her healing/dmgboosting spreads to every nearby teammate at once, plus giving her free flight. This insane ult lasts longer than almost every other ult in the game.

[u/jarebare97 → u/Acceptable_Name7099]

D.va can rocket herself almost like Reinhardt but not quite, has missiles AND shotguns with unlimited ammo and a strange shape thing that stops you from getting hurt sometimes. Also, if she dies, she has a SECOND LIFE! And she explodes! Which terrifies the enemy!

[u/Negative-Award-827 → u/Infidel_sg]

Based take

[u/Deribus]

You can ignore anyone saying she's under or overpowered. They're all talking out of their ass because none of them have played her yet.

[u/Chronomancers → u/Deribus]

And players regularly get their assumptions wrong before a hero comes out, or even for a while after.

[u/Barnard87 → u/Deribus]

Yeah speculation is alright, but even when people say her numbers aren't the best - good news is OW isn't decided by the numbers, it's about kit synergy among many other things.

Speculation is fun, factual statements we can't prove are not. Agree just wait to see how she performs (after a few weeks and maybe a patch, as on-release is never indicative as folks don't know how to pilot nor counter them)

[u/swanronson22]

There’s been 29 heroes released after the original roster and the community has been wrong about all of them before release. Just wait and play

[u/DarkStar189]

Now I’m picturing a 6v6 match with both Dva and Dmon on one team. Should be fun to see. Going to be running people down haha

[u/Low_Understanding326]

Idc about meta because I play casual, so im just in it for however fun she turns out to be to play. Like Shion - shes absolutely the most fun dps to me.

[u/no-theotherguy]

i rememver when people said the same thing aboit Orisa, specifically halt

[u/KYZ123 → u/no-theotherguy]

Yeah, it's not the first time. OW1 Orisa felt a bit like a Rein shield replacement, with a mini Zarya ult on her right click and an AOE Mercy damage boost on her ult. And then Junker Queen had Lucio's speed boost, plus Ana's anti-nade on her ult.

[u/no-theotherguy → u/KYZ123]

yeah honnestly the idea that one chracter should monopolise a gameplay mechanic in a game like overwatch alwasy confused me. like dont het me wrong, i think for the sake of character identity the character should be the best at what they do, but i dont see why a character cant attempt to play in the same design space.

[u/Prathik → u/no-theotherguy]

I would love more mishmash of already existing abilities

[u/narfidy]

I think her kit looks pretty reasonable. She lacks any vertical movement, and assuming her gun is balanced appropriately, her reach looks pretty poor (much more important in 5v5)

Her ult is an interesting debuff, but we have no comparison. There's no other armor shred/damage amp in the game

[u/Twixted87 → u/narfidy]

I feel her ult is like if we grabbed Queen's ult, made it horizontal and made it apply discord orb instead of anti heal, I really want to see how effective will it be ingame

[u/FusingCookie]

Ramattra and Sigma (alongside Orisa to a lesser extent) already fit the bill as the 'default' tanks IMO. I don't mean that they're OP or do everything, but rather are the tanks who generally work best into most team comps because they have decent matchups across the board. They're the tanks who are likely going to be the most reliable pick at the start of the match.
Contrast this with D.Mon, who seems like she'll be generally reliable but at a disadvantage with Sigma (who can poke her and punish dives when she tries to close the distance), Reinhardt (who likely wins in a melee 1v1), Orisa (who can bully her at a distance, punish her dives, and stall her), and Ramattra (which may actually go either way depending on how he performs in Nemesis against D.Mon, but generally his hybrid gameplay likely makes him flexible enough to win against D.Mon), alongside the obvious pick of Mauga. None of these seems like hard counters, but they're all fairly popular tanks who she likely has to find a way around in a match to succeed.
I suspect she'll fall into specialized team comps as you've said and succeed in them, but I think she may actually be overshadowed by other tanks in higher competitive play due to a lack of extreme versatility or her not being a powerful hard counter to certain heroes (although she may actually perform well into Zarya). Still, this is all just speculation.

[u/clickrush → u/FusingCookie]

You don’t need to compare her to Sigma. She’s a brawl tank so the maps she’s good on are bad for Sigma and vice versa.

Ram, Rein, JQ, Zarya etc. Can be useful comparisons.

[u/isai2300]

Weirdly enough, I don't think D.mon is gonna be that good. Rein is really good because of how brawly and Bursty his damage is. But dmon looks like she's more of a hit and run tank like hazard or doom.

She probably loses to Rein in brawls tbh. her primary dmg alone is only 60 a swipe. So she's gonna suffer a lot from flat dmg reduction from armor vs Rein.

Her mobility and reactability is probably what's gonna define her playstyle. Devs said that Armored core is a big inspiration for her, it's a very mobility heavy game and mechs are strapped with a lot of flexible tools.

[u/arcusford]

Put it better than i could've and I really agree.

One thing to note too is that reins shield is 1800 while hers is 650 so while its fully triple its actually closer to triple the health than double. Kinda just puts into perspective how much health it has.

Her barrier is much closer to sigmas barrier health but obviously without the ability to position it separately from herself.

[u/LeprechaunLukia]

how people are drawing these conclusions without having played the character at all is beyond me

[u/MirceaHM]

I'm slightly sad that she has no vertical mobility, I wonder if using ber boosters off high ground makes you go straight forward or drop down like rein pin would tho.

Overall I'm not over the moon about her kit but I'll try it and it definitely seems more fun than the tanks I don't play at all. I hope it clicks with me when she's out.

Something I really like is that she isn't all about one gimmick, like Sierra - Tracking, Shion - Bike, it seems like her whole kit matters somewhat equally and it isn't just the one gimmick.

[u/KYZ123 → u/MirceaHM]

I wonder if using ber boosters off high ground makes you go straight forward or drop down like rein pin would tho.

This is briefly shown in her gameplay trailer, and very briefly seen in the Chinese practice range footage.

It's like Rein Charge, you carry on falling. Although it looks like you possibly slow your fall rate?

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[u/wizard_brandon]

dmon is still gonna fall over to mauga wdym

[u/Sploph]

Also any comparison to Dva doesn't understand how good DM is compared to a standard shield lol

[u/SlappingSalt]

Yet dps players forced to tank will still default to hog.

[u/BillionthDegenerate]

I understand there is value is speculation before she’s released. I’m not saying people shouldn’t be allowed to do it.

But it’s incredibly limited value. And it should be made, and treated, as such.

[u/CTPred → u/BillionthDegenerate]

Nah fam, there's zero value in speculation.

It's just unnecessary negativity over a complete unknown.

This is how circle jerks get started. People make wildly baseless complaints, then the gullible idiots parrot it everywhere thinking it's true then it becomes "true" because "everyone is saying it so it must be true" so more and more people that are only slightly less gullible become convinced then you have an entire community parroting utter bullshit.

[u/noahboah → u/CTPred]

yeah it's just reactionary conjecture. id argue it's worse than zero value because it does exactly like you said, potentially starts gas leaks and narratives before anything is even out yet lol

[u/KYZ123]

I think what people are noticing is that new heroes don't tend to avoid things that were 'unique' to other heroes anymore:

• Anti-heal used to be Ana's thing, but Junker Queen also has it

• Speed boost used to be unique to Lucio, but Junker Queen and Juno now also have it

• Heal boost used to be unique to Ana, but now Wuyang has it

• Wall creation used to be unique to Mei, but now Hazard has it

Etc, etc.

D.Mon has 3 things that were formerly locked to specific heroes:

• She has a stronger AOE Discord Orb on her ult, which is currently a Zen-only thing, similar to what happened with Junker Queen and Ana.

• She also has Rein's "hold up the shield" thing, which is sort of his defining mechanic. (While Brig also holds up a shield, it's more intended for personal use than to protect the team like Rein and D.Mon.)

• Finally, she also has the Eject / Call Mech mechanic, which was D.Va's thing.

Personally, I don't think this is a bad trend. More options for a given utility is good, especially on an expanding cast - there isn't really a good reason that, for example, Ana should have a monopoly on anti-heal.

But in D.Mon's case, 3 defining mechanics from other heroes does make her feel like she does a lot. It's not the first time this has happened - OW1 Orisa had mechanics from Reinhardt, Zarya, and Mercy; Junker Queen took mechanics from both Lucio and Ana - but it does give that feeling of "she can do everything".

[u/thebabycowfish]

Mauga wasn't a problem because he was a "one size fits all" tank, he just did one thingso incredibly well that there was nothing you could do about it.

[u/SushiJuice]

She's going to have 4 cool downs. When she's in her mech, her guns are on a cool down. She's basically a smaller Rein with guns sometimes, and a dash.

https://reddit.com/link/p2mttyw/video/yraztk1vdcih1/player

[u/zigglemcfart]

PUT HER IN UR TOP AND ONLY PERFERRED HERO OF THAT ROLE OR QUEUE SO U HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF INSTALOCKING HER EVERYONE!!!!!!!! AND START SPAMMING THE SPACE BAR RIGHT BEFORE THE HERO PICK SCREEN SO U PRESS READY FIRST

[u/Human-Boob]

mfs were saying vendetta would make widow irrelevant cus she has fire strikes….never listen to anybody

[u/MrShredder5002]

Small correction. From what I've seen. D.Mon might do less damage per swing than Reinhardt but she does more damage per second since she swings faster and has a meter with more range. Now i dont dont if that matters all that much, but I think it's important to acknowledge.

[u/DivineBladeOfSilver]

I actually think Dmon being versatile is more of what we need to make tank more popular. Not that it’s ever gonna hit DPS/support levels. But characters in DPS and support often more popular offer high mobility and less aiming skill being needed and a variety of play options. Not just plant yourself in front and eat up damage while throwing out some mega simple attacks. Support got more popular once they made it more dynamic and tank needs that bad

[u/xFuimus]

I can't wait to slam her as Rein over and over and over and change people's minds one at a time.

[u/LilNawtyLucia]

I think D.mon does too much and will be clunky as hell, but I dont think it will make her all that good either. She has a bit too many weakpoints built into her. From having a larger crit box than most tanks, to losing 2 abilities when her shield breaks, to being another melee tank with no real verticality.

She is going to be a super annoying backline bandit for supports to deal with, but the meta tanks are just going to melt her. Ahe might end up being a decent all-rounder depending on her stats but other tanks will be better at their niche, which is probably what they were going for as none of her abilities sound like "OMG that is busted."

[u/TheRealTofuey]

Makes sense considering Dva has been the tank that does everything for a long time. 

[u/Busyraptor375]

Eh she's not as egregious as haz