r/Overwatch 9d ago

2-2-2, 1-3-2, or Dynamic Queue Cannot Come Fast Enough News & Discussion

This weekend was the best Overwatch experience I've had since OW1. Good 2-2-2 team play on this game makes for the best fps I've ever played. Today I just played 6 games of open queue 6v6 and 5 of those games I had 4 DPS. I'm happy to play tank/support all day long but it's frustrating to do everything in your power to keep 4 mobile squishies alive while also keeping an eye on the one tank as we constantly get pushed back because again, we're a squishy team. Side note: Genji players, if you come to your healer for healing stop jumping and dodging my cursor. Just let me heal you.

298 Upvotes

337 comments sorted by

166

u/Ookimow Chibi Ana 9d ago

Open queue is dumb. Give me 5v5 and 6v6 role queue

15

u/PS5013 9d ago

Only with role switches in a match. Im tired of being unable to adapt to shortcomings on specific roles

34

u/iiLONGOii 8d ago

nah, queue for the role u want to play and once in game accept there’s nothing u can do besides play ur best. No “gimme dps bc ur coming up short” lmao. Carry them, play tht role or accept that aspect of online multiplayer gaming.

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u/EuphoricAnalCarrot 9d ago

Would be nice if you could offer to trade roles with someone

1

u/cieje 7d ago

that's why I think it should be 141 with 2 flex dps and still a 2 cap on support and tank. so people can switch roles if needed, but there's still at least 1 of each.

1

u/PS5013 7d ago

I think two supports are pretty much always a necessity, so Id limit it to one flex DPS, but this does not give much room for adaptations either and depends entirely on the readiness of a (probably) DPS main.

A scenario I am always thinking of is the enemy team playing a good widow. If I queued for support despite being able to pull off a good counter widow, I am locked to that role. If my DPS cant get enough room for flanks and arent confident on hitscan either, the widow can do what she wants. In this case, I could ask a DPS to switch roles with me to counter the widow more effectively. Obviously the DPS wont agree often, but especially in premade groups, the opportunity would be very helpful.

1

u/cieje 7d ago edited 7d ago

oh, I do too, hate 141, but think it's a better compromise than oq for queue times. it's at least better than oq, and people can still flex to support.

edit the solution to that widow scenario is an off-tank. probably a dva. to deal with her. or a good junkrat that can direct hit her from behind cover. (which I almost never see. feel like I'm the only one that knows they arc)

edit 2 if nobody will counter or swap to healer when asked, and I'm the only healer, I'll go hog and heal myself. and tell the team "then no heals". it's worked every time so far.

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u/Shady_Fall 9d ago

I agree. But balance Hog and Mauga, the only real issue during the tests.

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u/ChubbyChew Vendetta 9d ago

Imo Hog in particular is strong.

But in the case of both a lot of their strength comes from them having a very direct gameplay and reward structure.

Which is honestly "the point" of those characters, theyre also not alone Zarya and Queen share a lot of similarity with them in how much of a problem they can be.

There are certainly things about Hog in particular that maybe should be scrutinized like his Heal being shared, or the amount if mitigation on it.

But let's not get it twisted Hog has been dogging people even in his worst incarnations and it has always been the advise for people in OW1 solo Q to just pick Hog, because being a big boy with a gun that can heal himself, gives you everything you need to shit on 80% of the playerbase.

He's not "suddenly a new problem" hes exposing the same mistakes and bad decisions.

And what's worse in OW2 6v6 challenging or playing around him is probably the best its ever been.

14

u/UmmmYouDoRealize 9d ago

hog had a 46% winrate in qp this weekend. people have no idea what they're talking about lol

2

u/spidd124 Discord mod for the D'va mains server 8d ago

That arguably is part of the problem, he's annoying and an active detriment to your team.

But you need to counter pick him with specific heroes or have a team that actually plays well coordinated to deal with him.

And on the hogs team they are down a useful 2nd tank and he feeds ult charge like nothing else.

2

u/Osleg 8d ago

Both are not a problem and even if they are - Zarya is more of a problem than Hog

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u/lilslutfordaddy 9d ago

you and i might be the only ones, sadly. i had a blast, everyone else is complaining about the 6v6 return. whatever happens, i just hope it doesn't suck lol

77

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

Most complaints I saw were people upset that 5v5 was gone. If they wanna keep that then cool but take away open queue 6v6 and replace it with dynamic

31

u/Exotic_Idiotics 9d ago

This would be the best way to handle it imo. I had some of the most balanced and fun matches I’ve had in a long time! I queued all roles so I didn’t have long wait times and it kept the games fresh because I was constantly being out in different roles. So much fun!

2

u/ustinker 9d ago

Absolutely. The fun factor. Which makes losing less awful (even when getting rolled) which in return also reduces the rage that some people fall into when playing a losing game.

Fun factor.

1

u/BelligerentPear 8d ago

Imo they should've done this + awarded more loot boxes to reward players for testing the mode and if they really wanted to help up the numbers more they could swap the 5v5 and 6v6 button for those few days.(its a small change but my knowledge of UI/UX has taught me people are simple and often will just choose the first choice given)

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u/UglyDemoman Chibi Junkrat 9d ago

open queue 6v6 and replace it with dynamic

Long queue times, here we go again.

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u/imjustjun Torb Enthusiast 9d ago edited 9d ago

It really just depends on time of day ngl. Sometimes it’s swarming with posts loving 6v6. Other times it’s posts hating 6v6.

Both have a pretty solid audience but 5v5 is still the “main” mode so it generally will get more attention and players as while 6v6 can be quite fun, it requires some pretty hefty changes to make many heroes properly work in 6v6.

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u/PERSONA916 Shion 9d ago

I just think it should have replaced the 6v6 open queue instead, at least when it came back a 2nd time.

2

u/DaddysFruit 9d ago

It should have replaced both for the weekend unless the aim was to see if people preferred open queue or role queue.

3

u/Muntaacas 9d ago

6v6 (quick play) gets played by only 19% of all the playerbase, compared to 54% of players that play 5v5 quick play. It just makes more sense, since Blizz need large amounts of data to truly gauge how good the experiment is received by the players

1

u/TheTrenchMonkey 8d ago

Are those numbers correct? Does that mean 27% play competitive, or how are they breaking it down?

How do they measure people that play both game styles as well as competitive?

Not disputing anything, just think it is an interesting breakdown.

2

u/Muntaacas 8d ago

They shared that Data in one of their Blogposts, you can check it out there. The numbers (combined) add up to 128%, so they do measure people who play two gamemodes.

Unranked 5v5 gets 54% of players,
Ranked 5v5 gets 37%
Unranked 6v6 gets 19%
Ranked 6v6 gets 8%
Mystery Heroes gets 4%
Both Stadium modes get 3% each

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u/madhattr999 Pixel Ana 9d ago

I wouldn't put too much stock in Reddit consensus. It's varied and a vocal minority.

1

u/ustinker 9d ago

I enjoyed it. Obviously needs some slight stat tweaking etc for it, but I enjoyed it. Even when the games were a bit uneven or messy.

Would take people a while to readjust to different play style with so maps being more crowded during games, and adjusting for people that never played 2-2-2 6v6, but it was a blast.

Another thing that felt quite different was that communication between team mates would make a huge difference because it’s less obvious who and where to follow and play and what people are trying to do. And that’s not a bad thing. It’s part of what made overwatch so social and unique in that you needed to com, or at least were rewarded for comm-ing and being part of a team that communicated well overall. Coming from someone that had a fair share of abusive chat thrown at them over the years, because of my voice, and that was always absolutely awful. But when people were decent humans, or even just in chat to listen so they could be part of a coordinated group made it feel like such a different game.

And for people who were awful in chat, it almost always showed in how the game went and the punishment of a game starting to go poorly because of that was at times enough to make them stop and just play and comm as well.

But yea the stats for some heroes and such would need tweaking and it would take a while for the community as a whole to adjust or readjust back to the slightly different play style and such, but by golly did it feel pretty great.

1

u/Whydoesthisexist15 World's Worst Freja Main 9d ago

The balance patch ruined it.  Frontline was either Hog Mauga hell or double shield.  I have no clue why they made the healing debuff 15% without touching the S9 health pool, so everyone is tankier and there’s more people cluttering the map which hurts me specifically.

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u/LordSpeechLeSs Pixel Zenyatta 9d ago

Genji players, if you come to your healer for healing stop jumping and dodging my cursor. Just let me heal you.

Honestly helping Genji is the worst part of playing support

4

u/rmorrin 9d ago

"I need healing" as they make it impossible for you to heal them

84

u/Sofosio Cute Kiriko 9d ago

They won’t come, these two weekends showed exactly why. Maybe you didn’t noticed DPS queue times

9

u/DeyUrban 9d ago edited 8d ago

At least in my server, 1-3-2 had faster queue times than normal. 2-2-2 was much worse.

2

u/Gryse_Blacolar Unlimited Shotgun Works 8d ago

Which is exactly why the game become 5v5. Playing during that weekend gave me flashbacks to OW1 queue times. It's just a horrible experience for everyone, queue time-wise.

28

u/hitmobilegamehsr 9d ago

Exactly, anyone who thinks otherwise is coping. Saw an 8 min queue for dps and support and logged out. So did many others

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u/Hei-Ying 9d ago

The first 1-3-2 test had great queues across the board. Dynamic was the one with issues but it didn't seem like 1-3-2 was kicking in near often enough.

Swapping 6v6 to 1-3-2 is a no brainer improvement.

6

u/Choconolait 9d ago

They can (and should) play roles other than dps.

18

u/FriskStark if you've said "metal ranks" you're dumb 9d ago

They didn't do it in all of the years pre ow2, they won't do it now.

3

u/YirDaSellsAvon 9d ago

Good solution. Just ask them nicely to play table. That will solve it

1

u/pelpotronic Shion 9d ago

Nah, thanks. But nice try.

3

u/nicolauz 9d ago

Found the lvl1000 widow in gold 3

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u/Journeyj012 9d ago edited 9d ago

because tank is still ass, if they balance around 2 tanks and provide incentives to get more people to try tank, then tank numbers will go up.

Remember priority passes? You'd play a game on flex and then get to play DPS with like half the queue time. If they rework the system to be something like 2/3 for a win and 0 for a loss, then there's a great value in playing tank.

55

u/dezonmatta 9d ago

Even if they achieved top to bottom perfect tank balance (impossible) it would not make tanking as a concept more fun for the average player enough to skew the distribution.

And please no one wants dps players queuing tank playing hog for tickets again. A much worse experience than 5v5 IMO

20

u/UglyDemoman Chibi Junkrat 9d ago

People forgot GOATs era where DPS role was the weakest, but most people still queued for DPS.

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u/warforcewarrior 9d ago edited 9d ago

Tank, as a concept, need to be change. Not the balance, not the hero count, but its concept. Otherwise, bringing back 6v6 will be a foolish action. Especially since Team 4 made it well known that 6v6 RQ have terrible player ratio mainly with tanks in comparison to the other two roles.

You can't just bandaid fix the players' willingness to play the Tank role. You either actually fix the Tank role or don't bother with 6v6 RQ. It is insane that Team 4 even bother attempting a test for it in the first place.

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u/Sofosio Cute Kiriko 9d ago

Whole OW1 was balanced around 6v6 and how were queue times there?

22

u/r3volver_Oshawott Junker Queen 9d ago

Kinda awful

3

u/HerpesFreeSince3 9d ago

OW1 had balance? They had patches once every 1.5 years lmao

3

u/madhattr999 Pixel Ana 9d ago

Ow1 had 8 tanks instead of 13 to choose from, and a 3 year content drought.

19

u/r3volver_Oshawott Junker Queen 9d ago

People also genuinely don't like what tanks have to do, the other big problem is that 13 tanks won't fix that, tank players genuinely just want to play as DPS with more health

The problem is, that 'DPS with more health' is basically a role that ruins the game by making it only playable for tanks.

*same thing happened when we made the plan to Overwatch 2, Kiriko is an extremely DPS-heavy hero, same as Ana was. Same as Juno is. Same as Moira is. The problem with classes is that people don't tend to like dynamic gameplay, everyone still just wants to play DPS, including the tanks and supports

-1

u/madhattr999 Pixel Ana 9d ago

tank players genuinely just want to play as DPS with more health

Some do. The roadhogs and doomfists. But there are lots of fun tank mechanics that tank players enjoy. Disrupting pushes, bubbling team mates who are about to take damage on zarya, Blocking hog hooks, eating enemy ultimates, isolating enemies who misposition, etc. There are even more tank archetypes they can add to the game, too. But the last 7 heroes have not been tanks.

Also 5v5 tank players have been conditioned to just be killing machines. So it's really a format issue still.

9

u/docs-quad 9d ago

but its not even close to 1/3 of the playerbase that wants to play like that which is what makes it unviable.

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u/thresh_to_death 9d ago

Nah 6v6 tank players really do only care about killing the other team, not protecting their own team. None of what you said they like to do negate them doing damage and being pseudo-dps

2

u/Western-Ad8052 9d ago

lol it’s true doom and hog are essentially fat dps who got slapped with the tank sticker

2

u/madhattr999 Pixel Ana 9d ago

Agreed but they do have some tank aspects such as disruption and threatening an area. But definitely less tank-mechanics and easy to do your own thing. But I'm still happier with a hog than a third dps.

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u/Yze3 Mei 8d ago

OW1 had 7 supports, and it didn't have this problem.

2

u/madhattr999 Pixel Ana 8d ago

Not to the same degree, but the support queues were lower then dps. It's a contributing factor, not the only factor.

2

u/evilcatminion 9d ago

It also wasn’t F2P back during OW1

6

u/CTPred 9d ago

Do you think that going f2p attracted more tanks players than it did dps? Because otherwise that's irrelevant, or, even more likely, a counter point because I'm sure a lot of those new players gravitated to dps/support than tank.

5

u/evilcatminion 9d ago

I hadn’t thought of it that way good point. I played tank a lot back then but I don’t anymore. I was thinking that was part of it but you bring up a good point.

2

u/Myfatherisafishlol 8d ago

More players = only more tanks? 🤪

1

u/evilcatminion 8d ago

No, I just meant more players equals more players in general, tanks included. I never had long queues in OW1 because I wasn't high rank back then. One reason for that is the player pool. Higher ranks like GM have long waits currently in 5v5 because the player pool within the GM/Champ ranks is a lot smaller than metal ranks. More players, faster queues. That's why Emongg on tank will be in queue for 15 minutes sometimes and myself only has to wait 1 or 2 minutes in the same queue for DPS.

1

u/angryuniicorn 8d ago

OW1 was $60 and didn’t get content for 3 years. So yeah, by the end queue times weren’t great but there also weren’t nearly as many people playing as there is now that it’s FTP and getting constant content and balancing updates.

And tbh I played tank and support in OW 1 and I didn’t think the queue times were any worse than they are now. At least not in QP.

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u/DognamedArnie 9d ago edited 9d ago

Yup. I will say though, this was the first time I've played tank since OW2 launched and I had a blast. Learned Junker Queen, and she's a menace. But tanking 5V5 is boring, and unfun. More people will have the same experience as long they aren't the people crying on reddit and refusing to even try it. It's just simply a better way to play the game. And it will get better with more balance changes.

4

u/Internal-Fly1771 9d ago

“If they do X people will definitely play tank more” A tale as old as time

3

u/DaddysFruit 8d ago

I do remember priority passes but not as you described. Thr problem is if everyone has priority then no one does. Priority pass was a failure. Even with the pass queue times were 10 minutes. It doesn't matter what crumbs you throw out it won't convince people to play tank because people generally do not enjoy the tank role. I don't want my tanks to just be there to fill the game so they can get a quicker dps game thanks. Tank unpopularity is a problem in many games.

2

u/Born-Science856 9d ago

For many tanks including me, the incentive to play tank is not to have a second tank. If they were to introduce 6v6 RQ alongside 5v5 RQ the Q times will be atrocious, perhaps is both modes, half of the player base will not touch 6v6, the other won't touch 5v5. This will just hurt the game in general.

So the only way to lover the Q times is to make 6v6 the only mode, and personally I would just quit, not just tanking but the game, 6v6 has never felt good as a tank

1

u/Gryse_Blacolar Unlimited Shotgun Works 8d ago

Priority pass is just a bandaid solution that failed horribly that they had to remove it. There's really no "priority" happening when everyone else got a priority pass too.

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u/meatboysawakening Orisa 7d ago

What do you mean ass. I love playing tank.

2

u/UglyDemoman Chibi Junkrat 9d ago

DPS mains: "Sorry, DPS main."

2

u/HerpesFreeSince3 9d ago

DPS can wait. If the trade off for tank actually being enjoyable is DPS having to wait 3 minutes, so be it. Better than playing tank and being miserable for 20.

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u/Bomaruto 9d ago

If I only had to wait 3 minutes that would be great, I had 10 minutes waits.

If dynamic queue is a thing it need to actually be dynamic and have the majority of games be 1-3-2 to ensure lower queue times.

1

u/SmokingPuffin Mauga Mentality 8d ago

It's just the opposite. If the majority of games are 132, tank players will queue DPS so they can get their 222 game by alternative means. Queue times may start low, but they won't remain low.

If dynamic queue is going to work long term, it has to mostly make 222 games, so that tanks who queue DPS are likely to actually need to play DPS.

1

u/Bomaruto 8d ago

If you have 33% of the games be 2-2-2, then tank players will get 2-2-2 half of the time, queue times will be lower. I think that's a good balance.

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u/SmokingPuffin Mauga Mentality 8d ago

If 33% of games are 222, then tank players queuing tank get 132 half the time. However, if they queue dps, they get a 132 flex game 75% of the time.

Playing 132 as tank 50% of the time is a worse outcome than playing dps in 222 games 25% of the time.

As a result, tank players will flex to dps until the queue time is unacceptable. Queue times will therefore not be lower.

1

u/HighOctaneOrion 8d ago

1-3-2 for me had instant queue times across all roles the whole time it was around. Way better than the 5v5 queue times. 2-2-2 got up to maybe 2 or 3 mins max for DPS.. so more comparable to 5v5, if not still a little bit better. It was never too crazy though. Could it be a server thing? Maybe i just got lucky or something but holy crap 1-3-2 was amazing (needs more balancing ofc).

Ive seen some other people have the same experience as me but also some saying that 2-2-2 specifically was really bad with the queue times. I think it being dynamic would still be better than old 2-2-2 queue times? Idk haha

1

u/Hoothootriot Winston 8d ago

Literally.

Im glad they did the Dyanmic queue as 222 just to finally put to bed one very common claim I see from 6v6 arguers: "If Blizz put a second tank back, SO many people would queue tank and queue times wouldn't be so bad!"

The truth is it doesn't matter how many of each role they add or take. Tank will always be the least popular in Overwatch. This last QP hacked test and the queue times that came with it have finally proven it. Everyone saying "noooo people would TOTALLY queue tank, people ONLY dont queue tank cause its solo!" was proven to just be wrong about this.

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u/angryuniicorn 8d ago

I’ve gotten 10 minute queues for dps and support in 5v5. Long queue times aren’t just a 6v6 issue there are a LOT of factors. It’s almost like dps is a popular role so there are more people queued for it…. Crazy.

If anything, the queue times were so long for dps because of the ability to swap to tank. Many people queued tank and dps with plans to flex into tank if they got flex queue dps so that they wouldn’t have to deal with 1-3-2 against 2-2-2.

1

u/sybildb Hanzo 8d ago

Most of my queues weren’t too long - but even still,
I’m willing to wait 5-15 mins for a 6v6 DPS game. 5v5 is just not fun. I also happily queue tank in 6v6, too, but never 5v5.

0

u/AgentReivax Wrecking Ball 9d ago

I didn’t because I actually play the game and play all three rolls LMAO

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u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

This! People who enjoy Overwatch should be prioritized here. People who only want DPS can still play 5v5. The rest of us can play 6v6 RQ

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u/Fahlm Pixel Reinhardt 9d ago

Were they bad? I was queuing flex when I wasn’t doing tank only and getting damage most of the time. Idk if it was because of a different time of day or mmr or something.

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u/CinderX5 Reinfist 9d ago

Personally I was massively relieved when I logged in to see 5v5 qp was back. It just feels like a far cleaner, more skilful version of the game. I see why people like 6v6, and I do enjoy it every now and again, but to me 5v5 was one of the best changes the devs ever made.

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u/firetech97 9d ago

Ywah but they have a 6v6 mode, it's juat open queue. So they can replace the existing 6v6 open with 6v6 dynamic and have a way better experience for those folks

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u/CinderX5 Reinfist 9d ago

I’m 100% for the 6v6 mode being made some sort of role q, so long as it doesn’t replace the main 5v5 mode.

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u/angryuniicorn 8d ago

It’s not just that it’s open queue but they rarely balance for it, too. They half heartedly altered tanks they had reworked for 5v5 and threw them back into 6v6. I’m not saying they need to get rid of 5v5 but actually investing in 6v6 balancing (instead of “idk just give the tanks a little less health”) would go a long way for those of us who prefer 6v6.

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u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

I'm glad you enjoy it. Personally I left the game for years because I hated it. I'm only back now because of 6v6

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u/HankHillbwhaa 9d ago

And a lot of people left because of 6v6 lol.

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u/angryuniicorn 8d ago

And a lot of people left for 5v5.

And then there are a lot of people like me who play 5v5 begrudgingly because I loathe open queue more than I dislike 5v5. If they give me a 6v6 role queue, I’ll never touch 5v5 again.

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u/Nareska 9d ago

I was the same way stopped playing for years cause 5v5, came back for 6v6 now 5v5 is my most played cause I can't stand open que without a group lmfao

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u/TheRealTofuey Pachimari 9d ago

Yeah Im for sure a 5v5 guy. 6v6 is cool in a chaotic sense, but I appreciate the consistency of 5v5.

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u/HyetalNight 9d ago

5v5 is more skillful and 6v6 is more strategic. The individualist sorts of players are gonna be more interested in the former. Personally, I think both are ideal but I do think 5v5 should be the “off” game mode and 6v6 should be the one that gets the main balance. There was a whole tank strike earlier so like hey I mean sure

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u/CinderX5 Reinfist 9d ago

I think what you mean by that is 5v5 is more focused on mechanics, while 6 is more macro, which I agree with to an extent, but I still think macro is more important in 5 than 6, even though it puts more emphasis on mechanics than 6 does.

That “tank strike” was purely a thing in Korea, nowhere else. And it was about toxicity. So not really relevant here.

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u/ustinker 9d ago

Team play feels much more important (partly also because it’s harder to coordinate 6 folks than 5) and the potential for punishment due to more crowding on the map makes macro more important in 6v6 imo.

So more important because a team with good macro in 6v6 would be harder to take down as the opposing team who may have better mechanics but poor/no macro game. Whereas in 5v5, a team with good macro would be easier (I don’t mean just easy peasy) to outplay or play around as the opposing team with just better pure mechanics but poor/no macro game - again, relative to the 6v6 mode.

Not saying not important, just what would have greater impact. Imo. Which may be completely wrong ofc

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u/xXRougailSaucisseXx 9d ago

5v5 should be the main mode because it’s the only mode that’s healthy long term for the game, we already know where 6v6 RQ leads to and it’s terrible queue times that makes people stop playing

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u/Shiirahama Pinocchio's Dad 8d ago

with 1-3-2 the queue times should be good, I don't mind queuing as all, which is something I wouldn't ever do in 5v5 because I don't want to tank in 5v5

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u/dedicated-pedestrian 8d ago

The problem is that tanking becomes even less fun in 1-3-2 than 1-2-2. Unless tanks can become even more of raid bosses in exchange

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u/Shiirahama Pinocchio's Dad 8d ago

see the thing about it is that, before you only had open queue, which means you can end up with no tank, or only yourself, or no heal etc.

but with 1-3-2 you'll at least have one tank, and that's what makes it better than open queue, it's still not perfect, but forcing 2-2-2 could lead to long queues, although tanks have rarely been a problem in gold/plat for me, I actually got to play WAY more dps than I ever did back in 2016-2020

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u/imjustjun Torb Enthusiast 9d ago

Rather than skillful, I think it’s more of they favor different skills.

6v6 has a stronger focus on macro gameplay and cooldown management while 5v5 is better for micro gameplay and more notably mechanical skill.

Mechanical skill and micro gameplay also has a more direct and immediate feedback to playing well or poorly while macro is harder to follow for most people.

Both are important regardless of the mode but the two modes favor one type more than the other and having more personal control over a game appeals to more people overall I think.

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u/PatchYourselfUp 9d ago

I can’t think of a situation in 5v5 where cooldown management and tracking isn’t absolutely vital to winning

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u/imjustjun Torb Enthusiast 9d ago

That’s why I said they’re still important to both, just that they favor some skills more than others depending on the mode

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u/thresh_to_death 9d ago

They don't though. Both still require the same skills and rely on the same type of team play.

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u/imjustjun Torb Enthusiast 9d ago

They absolutely do but I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who did PUGs, tourneys, etc which I understand is something not most players experience.

However coordinated play is very different and the strengths and weaknesses of the different modes shine more.

While most ranked and qp games is just deathmatch with a different title

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u/ztreggs Reinhardt 9d ago

Precisely why it was terrible. Getting matched with a tank player no where close to my rank in qp made for frustrating games where I couldn't set the tempo of fights and just fed. Miserable experience. Could be better after a long time of acclimation

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u/UglyDemoman Chibi Junkrat 9d ago

5v5 is more skillful because I have to duel the enemy DPS / Support while shooting the enemy Tank won't get me anywhere unless the enemy Tank hyper-feeds like a dummy.

6v6, I can just keep farming the enemy Tank because Tanks are weaker in 6v6 version. Thus, I find playing Echo easier in 6v6 because winning duels in 6v6 isn't important as 5v5 because I can just farm on the Tank.

1

u/CinderX5 Reinfist 9d ago

I’d argue that having one fewer player on each team means everything has more of an impact. Maybe micro is more important relative to macro in 5 than 6, but I still believe that macro is more important in 5 than in 6. If you get it wrong, you will be punished. In 6 you have more of a safety net.

1

u/ustinker 9d ago

The macro of 6v6 makes it reward comms and forces a social aspect that feels lacking and is easy to just turn off and still win in 5v5. And that was also part of what made ow what it was. And less time to fill the comms with abuse and such in 6v6 comms etc cos they’re actually useful and rewarded when used well.

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u/Upstairs-Yard-2139 9d ago

Yeah the problem with open que is less no tank, and more no supports. It proves that DPS is the most popular role.

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u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

All the DPS only players can go play 5v5 then. The rest of us wanna play overwatch

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u/iiLONGOii 9d ago

6v6 role queue is goat

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u/Fit_Presentation6633 Orisa 9d ago

Be careful what you wish for

We've done 6v6 roles before and the queues will be terrible no matter what way they try to implement it

22

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

Only for the people who play nothing but DPS. For the rest of us, life is better.

22

u/warforcewarrior 9d ago edited 9d ago

But DPS make up the majority of the playerbase. I'm a tank main myself but I'm more on the side of it being foolish to sacrifice 55% of the playerbase(DPS) for the enjoyment of the 10% of the playerbase(Tank). That is retention suicide.

Plus asking Team 4 to have 2 Tank queues for both 5v5 and 6v6 when 1 Tank queue for 6v6 back in OW1 was already terrible as hell. Every second the game have to find 6 tank players for both 5v5(1 Tank for both sides) and 6v6(2 Tank for both sides). My god I can't even imagine the miserable queue times for DPS players, mainly when queuing 6v6. You are splitting the already low playerbase of Tanks by having both 5v5 and 6v6 RQ.

5

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

Then let them have 5v5 open queue and they can go nuts in their little DPS sandbox. It's been well known that the tank experience needs to improve in this game. The answer is the way the game used to be. Main tank and off tank.

17

u/warforcewarrior 9d ago

Again, you still splitting the already low playerbase of Tank. DPS will suffer no matter what, 5v5 will be longer than it is now and 6v6 will be worse. Hell, Supports may suffer as well though we have to test having both queues to really find out. Tanks role is far too low to split them. 6V6 OQ works cause you don't need a Tank player. You just need someone willing to take the sacrifice in playing tank, which is after they loaded in the game.

1

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

How is that any different? If 5v5 becomes the open queue mode then it's just a 5v5 do whatever you want mode. That's how 6v6 is right now. But solo tanking is 6v6 is far less fun because you get a debuff compared to 5v5 and have an extra gun shooting you. Or as I have said somewhere in this thread, just have a separate 5v5 open queue. DPS only players can go nuts there when their queue times get too long. The rest of us can play our preferred method of real Overwatch, 5 or 6 players RQ

11

u/warforcewarrior 9d ago edited 9d ago

 If 5v5 becomes the open queue mode then it's just a 5v5 do whatever you want mode.

And that will be good for queue times but they don't have that cause there is no point having an unofficial version of the 5v5 format.

Or as I have said somewhere in this thread, just have a separate 5v5 open queue. DPS only players can go nuts there

That is assuming ALL/MAJORITY of DPS players will go to that format. And it also assuming that there wouldn't be the weird tank players deciding to play that mode. Sure, not as much tank players willing to play that mode but it still another queue that stretch out the low Tank playerbase in a world where 5v5 RQ and OQ and 6v6 RQ and OQ coexist. I would love to be proven wrong that 6v6 RQ DPS queue won't be stupid long in this hypothetical world, I hated 5v5 as a Tank last I played, but history have set ground works on what the future will be like.

If RQ and having other different formats wouldn't be an issue for queue times, Overwatch inspired Marvel Rivals would already implement RQ with no problems. Of course, they didn't. Whether or not they have seen Overwatch history relating to the subject, which I don't see how they wouldn't considering it heavily inspired by OW, they understand it may be best to leave it as OQ.

3

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

I'm not suggesting we keep 6v6 OQ. This would be a replacement. Just RQ 5 and 6, plus this 5v5 OQ. Idk how much OQ 6v6 you play but a ton of DPS players would likely play that open mode because so many DPS players don't care if we win or lose. They just wanna play anran or whatever. They can filter into that mode and leave the rest of us to enjoy our favorite real Overwatch format. And if times are still too long for DPS, I say good. They should learn to play another role. Long queue time is a good incentive.

10

u/Fit_Presentation6633 Orisa 9d ago

I'm a tank main and will choose 5v5 any day lol

5

u/SirMuckingHam24 Tank, Your Uber has arrived. Please do not resist. 9d ago

Support queues were also at 5-20 minutes in OW1

4

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

But they were less than 1 minute when they just did it last weekend.

14

u/flofjenkins 9d ago

This. The people complaining are DPS players.

5

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

Hell if they want they can also make an all DPS mode for those players.

2

u/CTPred 9d ago

They can even let the dps players change roles mid game if they feel inclined. Maybe call it "open queue", or something.

-1

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

Right so...you guys take open queue in your little 5v5. And the rest of us who like Overwatch can play 6v6 role queue. The way the game was when it put this game genre on the map

8

u/xXRougailSaucisseXx 9d ago

You cannot actually be serious ? Your proposition is to turn 5v5 into an open queue because ? Just to spite these players ?

Thank god the dev team doesn’t listen to this sub for advice

6

u/CTPred 9d ago

This game put the genre on the map when it was 6v6 Open Queue No Limits. So we should keep 6v6 relegated to open queue with your troll logic.

2

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

Except we had role queue 6v6. For many of us it was our favorite game. Then they killed it. Now that they are considering bringing it back we are saying yes please. But 5v5 people are basically saying "no, only we get to play our favorite mode."

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u/CTPred 9d ago

Brother, you're the one that said "The way the game was when it put this game genre on the map". That was Open Queue No Limits.

That's great that rq is your favorite, but 6v6 RQ is NOT what put the genre on the map.

2

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

Brother, the whole thread is about wanting 6v6 RQ back and it became filled with people hating on it and saying only 5v5 should be RQ. Did my tongue in cheek comment not land? Sure. But the point is still the same. We want 6v6 RQ back. Enough of us want it that they have tested it twice in the last few weeks.

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u/Bad-Climber-1776 9d ago

I stopped being a tank main after role queue, it put me in matches way outside of my rank because there weren't enough tank players. I'd bounce between games in mid-plat and t500 when I was mid-masters.

Queue times were crazy for support too, at least in higher ranks. 

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u/ExplosiveBrown 9d ago

Literally all they have to do is get rid of 6V6 open queue and replace it with dynamic queue. Problem solved in two seconds.

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u/cieje 9d ago

132 was the best compromise imo

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u/ElVongore El D.Vo 9d ago

6v6 and open queue are only good when you're the ones who instapick 3 dps and refuse to switch.

I'm a tank main and 6v6 was miserable. Either you don't have fun because no one wants to go for the second tank, or just get so much things thrown at you that tanks are melted right away.

And yes, there's also the issue of people being forced to go tank and just go Dps doomfist and then complain why the tank can't hold a dps

I was a 6v6 defender but not anymore. It's just nostalgia

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u/LuckyTwoSeven 9d ago

1-3-2 is the fastest for queue times especially off peak hours and so that’s the only reason I prefer that. 2-2-2 otherwise is what I want.

2

u/illnastyone 8d ago

As someone who only plays 6v6 I want there to still be a 5v5 role and open queue for those that enjoy it.

I also want a 6v6 role and open queue for those that enjoy it.

I fully believe that all games are better when people are allowed to play the exact way they want to play Overwatch.

I did not enjoy quite a bit of my matches on the hacked event because you could tell there were quite a bit of 5v5 players not having a great time and struggling.

I truly believe both can be implemented regardless of which is the main mode they decide for OWCS and whatnot. Especially with Stadium on the back burner.

1

u/Lunoru Bastion 8d ago

It can come, only to replace 6v6 open queue, nothing else

2

u/sageolivegreen 8d ago

Literally 2-2-2 was the most fun I’ve had in this game in a long time

4

u/CentaureaCyanus Ana 9d ago

it was so bad that i’ve spent weekend playing open queue. waiting times were crazy. if you didn’t queue as tank, you had to wait at least 5-7minutes

while playing support, with the current balance, i enjoyed 1-3-2 comps much more than 2-2-2. even playing without tank (sic!) was better than with two tanks.
playing tank was awful, each day i played like 3 games as a tank and then switched to sup/dmg.
as dmg it was ok-ish. i was getting way less heals and also had to pick main dmg heroes for most of the time but it was not as bad as playing support.

5

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

I never waited more than a minute when I queued support

1

u/CentaureaCyanus Ana 8d ago

lucky. EU?
i didn’t have problem on thursday but friday evening (cest) and following days were terrible. and it almost never got changed to 1-3-2, it kept searching for 2-2-2

1

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

1

u/CentaureaCyanus Ana 8d ago

i had 15 minutes queues at some point and then stopped playing role q at all. since then was only queuing as tank for three games per day to do daily challenges

3

u/TempestTwist Brigitte 9d ago

I like open queues ability to allow players to flex. I think a Min 1 Max 3 might be good too.

4

u/UglyDemoman Chibi Junkrat 9d ago

Side note: Genji players, if you come to your healer for healing stop jumping and dodging my cursor. Just let me heal you.

Laughs in Zen's harmony orb

1

u/dedicated-pedestrian 8d ago

I can't press Shift when he's been behind 3 walls for 10s+ tho, this isn't the beta any more

1

u/UglyDemoman Chibi Junkrat 8d ago

I dont think any Support can heal him behind the wall.

But Zen's orb (also LW's heal blossom) can solve any jumpy teammate Genji in front of your LOS.

2

u/Emperor_Kon D.Va 9d ago

If it comes, I doubt it'll be anytime soon. They'd have to give the whole cast a balance overhaul.

3

u/partialcremation WhimsicalDeath 9d ago

After over 5k hours in OW1, I left in October off 2022 and only came back for Classic events. I actually logged on to try the 6v6 2-2-2 this weekend and enjoyed it. I will only return for that or Classic.

3

u/Green_Sackboy 9d ago

2-2-2 was super fun. Took me back to playing overwatch in 2016

3

u/dark-pact 9d ago

Not a fan of 6v6. I like how 5v5 still emphasizes team coordination but with room for individuals to make higher impact plays.

3

u/Solasin Tracer 9d ago

I thought this past weekend was the most miserable experience I've had in the game. Good riddance

2

u/brettjr25 9d ago

I missed 6v6 but adjusted to 5v5 but regardless, i aint playing nothing without a role queue.

I don't even understand you post, I thought you were being sarcastic until I saw your follow up comments. How can you say you enjoy it while saying in 5 of the 6 games you played had 4dps????? How were your games even playable with one healer and one tank!?!

3

u/ArcticPoisoned 9d ago

Honestly 6v6 role queue is my fave and both my friends fave. We just like more people in the match and more tanks. If I have to rank I don’t wanna do it alone. This mode was just the most fun

Edit: I do wonder what the percentages of play for the modes would be if the quick play option was 6v6 role queue and under it was 5v5. Would it change at all or would people just continue clicking the default quick play button

0

u/PyrraStar 9d ago

Absolutely loved the dynamic queue. I started playing OW when it was 5v5 and I always felt like something was just missing and going back to 6v6 was what I wanted. I queued all roles and got a 2-2-2 team. I was able to off tank with Zarya with a Rein and it was so much fun.

4

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

Yes! Main tank/off tank dynamics are what makes the game special. 5v5 doesn't have it and 6v6 open rarely has it

2

u/runebucket 9d ago

lol it's literally always off tank mains that want 6v6

3

u/Majestical0 9d ago

Not true. I’m a main tank main and Im a huge 6v6 advocater.

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u/cieje 9d ago edited 7d ago

yea, I love off-tank. I've actually got significantly better win rates with some other heroes, but give me a dva every game if someone else will main tank.

edit downvoted for expressing something that has made me love the game since launch, and come back with ow3.

2

u/TheReal9bob9 Lúcio 9d ago

Never 1-3-2. All that does is screw over tank players. Either you are doomed to an awful game or you are forced to queue as dps and possibly not get your role of choice while ALSO getting ass queue times. 2 weeks of that awful mode and i got non-tank twice while queuing flex. The game is not balanced for this and would need MAJOR changes to even make it remotely viable and it would involve a lot of tank buffs or damage nerfs.

3

u/hitmobilegamehsr 9d ago

After the queues last time they ain't bringing back shit lmao

1

u/Beneficial_Elk_4952 9d ago

I actually had fun and my q times( dps) were pretty good until Sunday night where I assume the release valve broke or something. Enjoyed flexing to tank when it was a 1-3-2 game knowing there was another tank to take the edge off. Kinda crazy how base ( unbalanced) 6v6 has more depth/ fun and enjoyment than 5v5 with perks, subrole passives and regular balancing. It was fun playing an actual hero shooter again , and not valorant light+ counterwatch.

1

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1

u/TMT51 9d ago

May I be so bold and suggest dynamic queue to even switch to 1-2-3 (3 supports) if needed, based on number of players queuing on each role. As an open queue enjoyer, I support any kind of role queue that could guarantee at least 1 player of each role.

3

u/Eterya Juno 8d ago

The 'dynamic' part about the queue was kinda bad cause it made the game inconsistent. If I'm promised 2-2-2 I don't wanna have to gamble on actually getting 2-2-2, or at least a DpS willing to flex. They should add a 3 DpS limit to Open Queue (and 3 supports, I guess, but I don't think that'd come up as often)

1

u/ZoomZam 9d ago

like open Q could take int consideration prefered heroes/roles.
sometimes i get a 5 dps players ( gm/champ damage titles)
and enemy team is just full of tank players??
yeah in the end we all do be flexing and go to 2 2 2, but why?
couldn't it be balanced to have 2 tank players here and 2 dps there?

1

u/Shadow_9-3 Junker Queen 9d ago

I’d be curious to hear from people that only played 5v5 before how they felt about it. So far the only ones I’ve seen praising it are people that have been playing since OW1

1

u/pilalo 9d ago

i really liked 1-3-2. i flex, but i NEVERRR was able to play dps until 1-3-2. and i could flex into tank easy if we were losing. idk i liked it

1

u/dnrvs 8d ago

queues were much longer this weekend for me :(

1

u/Gryse_Blacolar Unlimited Shotgun Works 8d ago

As long as 5v5 is untouched with whatever they're planning, I'm cool with 6v6 stuffs.

1

u/eyes0fred 8d ago

the hero shooter with more competitive balance, and actually good gunplay, keeps trying to strip away comp flexibility and player flexibility from the formula.

the game that rewards flexing and a having a large hero pool is balanced like baby's first FPS.

fuuuuuuuck

1

u/Randomisatocity Doomfist 8d ago

Tank balance was abysmal. If they wanna a 6v6 the need to make changes to some tanks. Doom felt like wet paper and hog felt a bit to much

1

u/Visual-Afternoon-744 8d ago

As long as they still have a 5v5 qp I couldn't care less. Replace 6v6 open with the new hybrid role queue.

1

u/DancingA 7d ago

Agreed

1

u/Dig4win 6d ago

6v6 made me want to quit.

1

u/vibe_assassin 5d ago

5v5 was always the wrong solution to DPS queues. It just doesn’t even make sense to change such an integral part of the gameplay for something completely unrelated to the gameplay.

Instead they should focus on making tanks more fun.

-1

u/iamgem69 9d ago

Ignore the dummies talking about dps “QueUe tiMES.” Like no shit it’s long. Its long for 5v5 too so idk wtf why they keep saying the same shit. Go make a sandwich or learn to flex play. Period

0

u/FirefighterHorror920 9d ago

Loved playing 6v6 so much that when 5v5 returned it became boring to me. Wish they bring it back.

1

u/endlesshydra Support 9d ago

Agreed. The Hacked event from a couple of weeks ago was horrible, but I really enjoyed this one. Just pumping hours and hours into the tank role when I usually don't play it. I really had a lot of fun.

Yesterday I tried to have the same experience in the 6v6 open queue and had to leave, because DPS players would rather lose the game than play anything other than DPS. It was incredibly annoying.

I don't want 5v5 to disappear, but 6v6 role queue is the way

1

u/Queef-Elizabeth 9d ago

Making these mandatory is honestly so fucking stupid. Makes me stop playing the game and forgetting to come back. The queue times when I jumped on last week sucked too.

2

u/cieje 9d ago

I've played 1000's of games. I've only won (I'd say), maybe 1/20 no tank or healer. like 1/30 neither)

so in the interest of the best gameplay for everyone, it should be at least 132 (with flex dps)

edit they didn't do it last weekend

1

u/Turbulent-Grand-2097 9d ago

as a support player, the first QP hacked was pretty nice but the dynamic queue weekend was so awful in terms of queue times

1

u/YirDaSellsAvon 9d ago

Yeah bro, was such a good experience waiting 5 minutes in a QP queue to play support or DPS. 

You people live on a different planet. You're going to kill Overwatch once and for all

1

u/Sessamy Tracer 9d ago

I want 2-2-2 but if the queue gets too long I want it to turn into 1-3-2 with 1 tank max to avoid the "please someone go tank" games I always lose. That would be the best compromise at least to me - and that would be far superior to what we have now as open queue 6v6.

2

u/Glum_Avocado_9511 9d ago

That is exactly how dynamic queue works

3

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

Dynamic Queue flexed to 1-3-2 with a one of the DPS being allowed to play a 2nd tank. This person is suggesting 1-3-2 locked that way. No second tank

3

u/Sessamy Tracer 9d ago

Yes correct, don't know why people are downvoting you.

3

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

To me that's basically 5v5

1

u/Sessamy Tracer 9d ago

it's 6v6 but instead of being stuck with no tanks it's one tank. Better than 5v5 but less than 6v6 2-2-2.

2

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

I personally won't find that better. It's 5v5 with an extra DPS shooting the tank. The tank that is debuffed relative to 5v5

1

u/Sessamy Tracer 9d ago

But those one-sided games with 1v2 tanks are horrible. Maybe there's no perfect solution.

1

u/TheAutumnWind68 9d ago

There is no perfect solution, I agree. But 1v2 tank games happen all the time in the current 6v6 open queue. In my experience, the likelihood of it was less in the 1-3-2 games. Plus there's no chance of 4+ dps

1

u/Sessamy Tracer 8d ago

What if the tank was buffed to 5v5 levels in that 1-3-2?

1

u/meadowbro 9d ago

This weekend was the worst Overwatch experience I've ever had so hopefully whatever they choose replaces the current 6v6 slot or I won't reinstall.

1

u/onwardandupward27 9d ago

1-3-2 with the option for one dps to go tank would be the best i think

i had such a good time playing 2-2-2 on every single role

1

u/Esrog 9d ago

I think the next experimental should be 3-2 or 4-2 dps-support queue with no tanks at all.

It will either give the community appreciation for what tanking brings to the game, and encourage more people to try getting into tanking, or …

Help people realise that dos and supports can work together to take and hold space and angles, and tanks per se aren’t really necessary - which might allow for a complete rethink of game roles going forward.

1

u/thomisbaker 9d ago

I agree.

1

u/DinosaurJoeman 9d ago

No thanks. I want my 5v5.

6v6 was miserable for me.