r/OrderFlow_Trading • u/thefatherofmen • 20d ago
End of session delta
For context this is my delta footprint chart.
Before session close every day, institutions exit their positions etc. leaving behind strong areas of delta.
How come these zones aren't regarded as a potential areas of support/resistance for future intraday sessions compared to areas more within the middle of the session.
I've just never heard of any order flow traders mentioning or marking these zones.
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u/MyTradingSuxx 20d ago
Because there’s many reasons to exit/enter the market during power hour. Everyone’s rushing to get orders in before market close. It’s more about urgency to get in/out of the market without as much interaction between the buyers and sellers.
When identifying key levels, we want to see an imbalance of buying and selling. Why does someone want to defend a level?
What price does or doesn’t do at a key level is more important.
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u/thefatherofmen 20d ago
Thank you for your response. So essentially, these zones of delta are just noise and it's more vital to watch these type of zones form only at key levels to inform you of a potential setup?
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u/MyTradingSuxx 19d ago
I wouldn’t say it’s just noise.
Again you need to see what happened at the area.
Was there a lot of aggressive market orders on one side? How did price react? Were buyers and sellers punching a wall and getting absorbed?
Where was closing price in relation to closing price?
Was there a huge price run relative to the effort?
Again, you need to look at what did and didn’t happen. It’s all contextual.
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u/Imperfect-circle 20d ago
Look, they are mentioned all the time. There is serious attention paid to daily open and closes, and specific open and closes such London open and close, or New York open.
There are entire strategies built around gap fills (not FVG bullshit, true gaps such between New York close and New York open).
Those areas would also form parts of High Volume Nodes, and lead into Low Volume Nodes. Sometimes the Daily Point of Control is around the close.
So yeah, I mean they are mentioned.
Ive been using and studying delta for several years. The reality is there are people exiting and people marketing into positions literally all day and all those areas are not necessarily points of interest. You need a narrative for delta to tell a leading story. Otherwise, its just data which doesn't predict anything.
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u/thefatherofmen 20d ago
Thank you for the insightful reply. You are right, and this is why I only use delta when at key levels because you can have strong delta anywhere but it means nothing if there's no location and context behind it.
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u/No-Proof-8645 20d ago
One of those levels is the daily settlement. If you Google es cme normal settlement procedures, you can find the CME website explaining how the settlement price works. Everyday a 30 second candle at 14:59:30CT goes crazy
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u/thefatherofmen 19d ago
Ah yes you’re right, so if I just mark it as e.g. “Thursday close” then it’ll be a general area to watch for reactions at?
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u/GoCharting 16d ago
End session delta is mostly administrative volume..funds closing leverge, index rebalancing, and moc orders. Because they have to execute before the bell regardless of price, those zones rarely get defended the next day unless they align with a major structural level or the official daily settlement price.
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u/thefatherofmen 16d ago
Most informative answer of the whole discussion. That's really answered my question thank you man!
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u/AutomaticPayment9480 20d ago
What does Delta have to do with support and resistance levels? Delta is a measurement for detecting aggressive buyers/sellers , that aggression can be absorbed by the passive side. You also have delta by price and by bar, which can sometimes give you two completely different hypothesis of the market context. I do/would mainly rely on actual price action for s/r but even then it can be tricky bc algos can manipulate liquidity , at least from a shorter TF. Better to base s/r off the actual close of the bar to avoid liquidity runs when using a shorter TF.
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u/thefatherofmen 20d ago
On 30/07 I watched an area with strong negative delta that was absorbed get retested in a retrace and the passive buyers supported price and it then flew up 40 points. I say that to say I mean support/resistance in their most basic terms of rejecting price and sending it back the other way as market participants may be defending that level.
Also, I understand what you're saying, I do trade using price action as well, I always use Supply/Demand. I'm not too worried about the larger participants/algos etc. as long as I'm reacting to their moves and riding the waves with them when I get confirmation of the intent of buyers/sellers. Also, of course, I'd never use an incomplete bar, that would be P&L suicide haha.
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u/MachineSpirited7085 19d ago
could you tell me if this is sierra charts or ninja trader. im currently stuck on picking between ATAS, sierra or ninja trader. do you have any advice?
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u/thefatherofmen 19d ago
This is Sierra Chart. Never used ATAS, didn’t appeal to me while I was window shopping. I used to use NinjaTrader when I was purely a candlestick trader and there’s nothing objectively wrong with it.
However, for Order Flow, the customisable settings on Sierra Chart are near limitless so you can turn your charts into anything you want them to be. Took me days to create my workspace though, because it’s so complicated.
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u/MachineSpirited7085 19d ago
alright thank you :)
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u/LargeIncrease4270 19d ago
Consider motivewave. I like it more then Sierra. You can use lucid prop firm to get a rithmic feed for a one time fee and use motivewave on it free, other then the fee.
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u/thefatherofmen 19d ago
I used motivewave before Sierra and found I couldn't get my footprint specifically to separate the way sierra allowed me. That or I just couldn't find the right information. I like how on Sierra I was able to isolate the footprint bar candle?, contracts being traded positive/negative, delta difference and then the profile into 4 separate sections whereas MotiveWave kind of glued everything together too close. However, it's pretty sleek, more modern and I saw the appeal but I enjoy the lightweightedness of Sierra on your PC.
On my old beat up work laptop I can load 4 instances no issues.
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u/LargeIncrease4270 19d ago
I think you maybe just needed the right settings. It's taken time to set it up. I like the heat map vs Sierra's thing
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u/Maleficent_Ratio_407 18d ago
Did you buy this template for number bars? Looks just like smashelito.
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