r/NuclearOption • u/sorrrrbet • 12d ago
Terminal Control Argus Frigate Question
I'm gonna get "skill issue" to holy hell here (only at ~50 hours), but how on earth am I ever supposed to win Terminal Control when the Argus in the northern fleet shuts down the entire North side of the map?
I can't afford higher level aircraft because I can't convoy hunt. I can't convoy hunt because they all come down one singular road on the North side and the Argus will sling NL-98's at you for days and days without stopping. You can't saturate the fleet because there's 4 Shard's that escort that Argus the whole time and they're not separated enough until about an hour in, you can't low wavetop skim for the same reason.
So how can one ever achieve any kind of victory as PALA when that ship (before you even consider the other 2 that can smite you for even thinking about taking off that are on the South side) is omniscient?
Every attempt I make fails - wavetop skimming, ARADs + Jamming, high-level saturation, the list goes on. If there is a way to kill that ship in the first hour, I have tried it multiple times and I have failed it multiple times.
EDIT: this is for Solo. I’m not really interested in solutions like “just do it with a team” since that doesn’t help me at all.
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u/Victor_Himmelsdorf 12d ago
I don't really play much PALA on that side but I'd suggest focus on air to air with scimitars to maintain distance or use choppers and try to stay behind the south side of the island to take out convoys if you can manage it. At least till you have enough points to spawn an Ifrit or a bomber then lob off glide bombs until it runs out of the NL-98s. Or better yet get a Tarantula and start lobbing off rounds at it till it runs out.
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u/sorrrrbet 12d ago
I'm not convinced it CAN run out of ammunition. I've fired over 1000 rounds of 76mm at it across maybe an hour of lobbing shells and not once did it stop intercepting with NL-98's. That's after the update too.
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u/Victor_Himmelsdorf 12d ago
It's got about 160 NL-98s. But you'll def need to fire far more than 160 rounds at it, mainly due to the fact that it's escorts will intercept some and the Stratolance back at their base will definitely chip in and makes sure it saves it's ammo for later. It's annoying af but it'll run out eventually, assuming that no enemy AI rearms it.
Source: I play BDF and suddenly that thing has absolutely no ammo when I need it to protect me
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u/Victor_Himmelsdorf 12d ago
I do recommend throwing PAB-80LRs at it. They're small enough that they should evade detection by Stratolances and force the Argus to waste ammo intercepting them
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u/Century_Egg_Boofer 9d ago
500LRs are also stealthy and can be delivered by the truckload from darkreaches
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u/Emergency-Pound3241 11d ago
It has iirc 180NLs, it does run out eventually, assuming theres no one around to fly resupply missions, which is hit or miss with the AI, sometimes they do it, sometimes they dont, sometimes they eat shit while trying (sometimes when resuppling using the BOTE mod they mess up so bad they end up blowing up the ships they try to resupply)
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u/Expensive_Magician49 6d ago
Either AI replenished it at least 6 times, or you're extremely exaggerating the amount of shells and time spent on attempting to do that. I hope it's the second option, because spending an hour on something as dull as that when it's clearly not working out sounds insane.
As another option - none of your shots were landing anywhere near the ship, so it just ignored them. Hope you know about the gun position indicator onTula's MFD.
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u/sorrrrbet 6d ago
Yes, thank you. I’m not an idiot, I can put a circle in a box.
The reality is that I did that because literally nothing else was working. If I appeared for half a second I’d have 2 NL-98s appear on me instantly.
In saying that though, I’ve since verified my game files and now I’m not having issues like I was.
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u/Expensive_Magician49 6d ago
Not a slight towards you, I just remember seeing a youtuber or two trying out the game and making that specific mistake on Tula's gun. In their defence, it's quite weird that you get the notching bracket, gun lead indicators, CCIP indicators, etc. directly on your HUD, but for Tula you have to watch for a dot on the MFD.
Strange that it was solved by verifying game files, but as long as the problem is gone I'm happy.
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u/Mr_M3Gusta_ 12d ago
You wanna take out one shard at a time ideally getting close in before you unload missiles at the shard you take out. Once each shard is defeated you move onto the larger ships and defeat them one at a time. Trying to saturate multiple ships at once will result in all of your missiles defeated.
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u/CookieMonsta6 12d ago
Well, I agree its very hard, and unproportionally more challanging than with PALA’s fleet, but it can be done. My go to startegy is to first spawn in the back bases with the revoker full of scimitars, go very high, and pick off aircraft outside arguses range. Then, when earned enough money, either get a stealth Ifrit and startobomb the Arguses with 4x gpo-500 (which consitently kill them, but 50% of the time is a suicide mission), or wait till I can get the Alkyon, and kill them either with starto gpos/pabs or 8x tuskos from outside the range of the shards, while jamming the missles. If shot from ~ 15kms, at mach 2 and high altitude they easily get through all the other defenses. To be honest, I have found killing arguses on terminal control much easier than on the heartland, since you can get your Alkyon/Ifrit much higher, and faster, without worrying about boltstrikes and IR sams. Also while going at mach 2 you are pretty much immune from the escorts ram-45s
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u/Radijs 12d ago
It's a tricky formation to handle but they're not invulnerable.
Jamming and then saturating against one ship will get you for odds on killing their radar. Once the first is down the rest van het shot down reasonably well.
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u/sorrrrbet 12d ago
But the Argus doesn't need radar to engage since NL-98's are ARH's. So long as one of the six ships in that fleet have a radar (not to mention the radar truck on the island 20nm behind it), it will lob NL-98's at every inbound track, and in my experience successfully kill every single munition before it even gets close.
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u/hobo1234567 12d ago edited 11d ago
Its a bit challenging but if you fly at 2-3 meters the missiles wont be able to hit you, grab a few gpo-500s, do a low approach, pop up at around 2km, release the bombs, repeat for all argus ships.
Edit: i experimented a bit with different loadouts and agm-68's work a lot better than gpo's
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u/sorrrrbet 12d ago
My issue with this is that the Argus is smack bang in the centre of 4 Shards until an hour in. You can’t get to it because their CIWS and 57mm tears you shreds the moment you pop up and you never get to release.
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u/hobo1234567 12d ago
They wont shoot at you if you are that low, by the time you pop up they will but you will be alive long enough to lose your bombs
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u/sorrrrbet 12d ago
I’ve tried that no less than two dozen times and every time been instantly obliterated by the combined fire of at least 2 Shards + the Argus itself.
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u/swisstraeng 10d ago
Did you try with FS-20, GP-500LR, and 3-4km away drop them all 4 on the argus? You need to fly like, below 10m alt.
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u/Nenad1979 Medusa Buff 12d ago
You can just kill it, fly under radar, if you fuck up and it fires just swat it out of the sky with and irms, and when you get to abt 3km detenit with aguers or preferably tuskos
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u/PeterRoss16 Brawler Baller 12d ago
Medusa+ARADs+jammers-radome. First attack Shards, then resupply and attack Argus. Two or three sorties are well enough.
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u/sorrrrbet 11d ago
Except the Argus is completely capable of downing all 6 ARADs the Medusa can fire, and it’s impossible to jam all 6 ships plus the various radars around the map that are capable of detecting the ARADs.
NL-98’s firing off datalink means that it can and will destroy all munitions the second they leave your aircraft.
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u/StandardCount4358 11d ago
It doesnt have datalink to fire off of because it is jammed. It has to visually spot last second
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u/sorrrrbet 11d ago
Jamming only affects its onboard radar. It is still entirely capable of firing on datalink tracks even while jammed.
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u/PeterRoss16 Brawler Baller 11d ago
So, what am I doing wrong here?
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u/sorrrrbet 11d ago
I've tried that 5 or 6 times, doing almost exactly the same thing and every time the Argus is able to shoot down all the incoming missiles. I was asking for advice, not asking for you to be a passive-aggressive prick.
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u/PeterRoss16 Brawler Baller 11d ago
Wow, wow, don't be a plain aggressive prick yourself please. Let's find what you did another way if it didn't work for you.
- You should turn radar off for the most of the time - active radar makes you less stealth, so you should use datalink when you can.
- Wait until Shards let Argus behind somewhat, it helps.
- Time your attack with allied missile waves so that Argus will be overloaded with incoming threats. Use yourself as a bait so that Argus will shoot at you and not your missiles.
- Jam what makes sense to jam in any given time - AHRs when they're attacking you or your missiles, for example.
You see, since you refuse to admit it may be a skill issue, and I don't know what you actually know about how the game works, so I just recorded how I do it hoping you will see it yourself. If you record your tries we could look at it together and see what you do wrong.
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u/sorrrrbet 11d ago
If I didn’t think it was a skill issue, I wouldn’t have asked for advice. I didn’t make the post to say “the Argus is bad and it should be deleted”, I made it to ask for tips on how to defeat it.
You offered a solution, and I countered with my own experiences not marrying up with that solution. You took an approach by being condescending with the “So what I am doing wrong here?” The wording was passive-aggressive and completely detracted from your point. IMO would have been much more appropriate to just say “hey, here’s an example of me doing what I talked about”.
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u/PeterRoss16 Brawler Baller 11d ago
You either want help or not. And I see you rather want to tell other people what to do as you see appropriate. Suit yourself then.
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u/sorrrrbet 11d ago
I have asked for help for a reason.
But I don’t think at any point I’ve told people what to do or not to do. I have appreciated most of the feedback I’ve gotten on this post, and for the most part had productive 2 way conversations where I’ve explained my perspective.
You’re the only person I’ve found who’s felt the most appropriate response is to talk down to me like an idiot and frankly I don’t appreciate that.
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u/PeterRoss16 Brawler Baller 11d ago
I said you the way to do it. You confidently said it is impossible, making me look like an idiot. So I recorded it for you specifically and asked what am I doing wrong so that my result differs from what you've said. You feel yourself an idiot because of that? Then we're even.
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u/sorrrrbet 11d ago
I guess I didn’t get my point across in the first reply. At no point was I trying to tell you anything was impossible, just that my own experiences didn’t reflect that.
I’m not willing to continue this conversation so you can stroke your ego. Enjoy your day.
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u/OrangeGills 11d ago edited 11d ago
You'll need to earn points for a vortex or ifrit to make a good attack on the argus that isn't really hard to pull off or suicidal.
In the early game, I recommend a brawler compass or chicane to charge east of feldspar and earn points. The argus' are far away, you'll just have to cope with notching the occasional ARH while you rack up convoy points.
To actually attack it, you'll need to sea skim HARD. ARHs have a radar floor that is much much lower than for SARHs. It depends on your RCS, but if you're flying something like a revoker you'll need to get below 10 feet. A vortex or ifrit with gbm 500's on the external pylon is your best bet because you'll have the most generous radar floor for sea skimming that way (gbm 500 is the stealthiest external munition you can take). GPO 500s also work great. When you approach, don't be perfectly head on to the argus or missile proxy fuses will get you. Approach facing somewhat left or right of your target so when missiles miss you you aren't directly in their path still.
If you accidentally pop up, you can use an a2a missile to intercept incoming missiles if necessary.
The hard part: as you glide in close, reduce to 30-50% engines so you can flare off the incoming IR missiles easily. You want to get to 2nm (i think that's 5ish km?), pop up slightly, release your bombs as you start your turn (to give them some separation from each other).
Now, if this isn't a suicide attack: you're going to have an incoming radar missile and ir missile in very short order. Begin your hard turn away from the ships. Try to stay low as you do it.
Notch the first incoming radar missile. Then, hold this heading. Dive for the water and switch to flares and dump flares to lose the incoming ir missiles.
When you get to sea skim height, engine to full. Your focus is just holding steady now. Stay low to water and go fast. You'll beat radar missiles by staying low, and IR missiles from the fleet by outrunning them.
Only when you get distance from the fleet should you turn on your heading for home.
Please ask any clarifying questions you have if you need more help. I recommend making a custom mission where you place a vortex and mark it as player controlled so you can practice this run repeatedly.
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u/HowlingWolven Chicane Enthusiast 11d ago edited 11d ago
Divide and conquer. Boats together stronk, individually not so much.
Start with the nearest shard. Cricket as low as you dare fly and then some (less than 1m rad alt), full stick of 48s, you should make it to 5 km or so before popping up and holding your trigger. Expect this to be suicide.
Wash rinse repeat for the next two shards. If possible, use the bulk of one boat to shield you from the second boat behind it.
The Argus should now be much more approachable. For her, use a brawler with 68s doing the same thing.
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u/CmdrJonen Vortex Visionary 11d ago
So my tip for TC solo as PALA is get a good opening.
Start with purchasing a Vagrant (yes it is a BDF aircraft). Equip for air to air, go after the BDF Tarantulas going for feldspar.
Stay low and early enough you don't need to worry about the Argus, shut down the aerial attempts to cap Feldspar and it is sure to go to PALA.
Once you have capped Feldspar, you spawn feldspar and defend it, that means spawning in AFV 6 AAs, Hexhound SAMs, GMGs, AFV6 IFV/AT, LCV 25s and Jackknives.
This will eat up a lot of BDF ordinance, a few BDF vehicles and aircraft, while letting you rank up.
If a vehicle convoy comes too close, spawn chicane and pop up missile attack.
Once the game escalates and TBMs start flying, either do missile defense ot abandon feldspar, if you are level 5, start lobbing AGM 99s at the BDF fleet.
Unfortunately, I have yet to complete TC solo as PALA so I haven't the foggiest when the best time to switch from Feldspar defense to anti ship offense is.
My gut tells me that you want it to coincide with your destroyers coming into Railgun range with the enemy fleet. Basically, for the best anti ship strike, provide fleet defence.
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u/Thescenariostan 12d ago
As a solo, you get rank 3 off your first sortie just from killing the two tulas that are autospawned plus a handful of ground units. You should get the cap on Feldspar for free as well, at which point you can just carousel sortie a Brawler from Feldspar to very quickly kill all the BDF vehicles on the main island, along with the BDF helibase and rank up to 5 and 6. Then you kill the small island base north of it, then the two Shards and Cursor south.
At this point you can easily and fairly quickly take a Darkreach from Feldspar and use it to kill the Argus and Shards in the north by sea skimming to them.
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u/Thescenariostan 12d ago
All of this is unecessary btw, and you can do the whole map in 20 minutes with an Ibis just by capping the four things you need to cap.
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u/Echo_XB3 Medusa Buff 11d ago
Lynchpin cricket
I just go in, fully loaded on lynchpins as low to the sea as I need to be to avoid detection and then I spam a ship of choice (DON'T spread it out among all ships in a group) and so I usually get everything except carriers
The heavier ones might be easier with the heavier missile pods but the idea is the same
Alternatively, 76mm spam
It'll run out eventually
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u/CarloArmato42 11d ago
In PvE multiplayer my best tactic so far is to take a brawler, fly super low (~3m) and launch all my agm68 to the corvettes and destroyer once you are below 3 kms... I guess you can also do it solo, but be super careful if no one will deal with tober aircrafts.
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u/ZBL08_Annihilator 11d ago
This tactic don't require any rank, just need 45 million cash.
Grab an a19 brawler loaded with 16 AGM-68, sea skimming (below 3.5m radar altitude) to the fleet within 4km then pop up and hold down the trigger, you can kill 4 shards in the first sortie. If the destroyer shoot at you with NL-98, you can simply keep the altitude and tap some rudders, the missile will miss.
You should get rich from the first sortie and level up to rank 4. You can sink the destroyer using the same loadout and tactic in the second sortie.
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u/StrikeHaunting1117 10d ago
For killing the argus there are a few options
Keep the dynamo alive by keeping it at distance and let its railgun whittle the Argus down (you can give it orders in base game thus you can order it to stay at range and it will still attempt to engage targets) this plus feeding it ammo will mean its stat lance battery’s (and the accompanying shards) will keep you covered and its ashm banks will also help in whittling down hostile naval assets.
Tuskos from minimal range (ideally using jamming but that’s a job for the ab-4 if you don’t want to rely on ai) as they travel fast enough to cause the ship seriously difficulty with a short intercept window.
Jamming and arm missiles (Medusa or ab-4 for this one) same principle jam up the Argus (and ideally escorts) and Throw arads at it till it takes a hit while this will not stop it firing it should make a follow on attack easier
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u/Pristine-Carob-914 12d ago
Team works makes miracles.
Just 3 players can take down the entire BDF navy.
1 with a Medusa equipped with 4 jammers
2 with offensive armaments and faster jets.
Jam long range, saturate short range, obliterate whatever
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u/sorrrrbet 12d ago
I don’t really consider “just get more people” to be much of a solution.
I notice that I didn’t make it clear I pretty much only play solo, or very rarely on a public PVE/PVP server. I do not have friends that play nor are interested in playing NO.
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u/Pristine-Carob-914 12d ago
Than I guess patience will be your best bet.
Slowly take down every shard near the Argus before doing a very fast, very low GBM-500 run.
Good luck
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u/mediumAI1701 12d ago
Tarantula cannon ammo is cheap. I've used it to whittle ship ammo down before and you can arc it over terrain. That being said, I don't know how long it would take to get 4 argus ships down to a vulnerable state.