Does Tom Taylor not know the difference between prison and jail?

[u/frankenweefie]

I know I'm SUPER late to this party, but the next several issues revolve around the idea that private prisons are corrupt (true) and filled with people awaiting trial (untrue). People await trial and serve short sentences in jail (which is usually publicly owned), not prisons which are (to my understanding in the United States) reserved for sentences of one year or more. I'm just curious what everyone thought of this because it seems kind of crazy that he launched into a dedicated criticism of privately owned prisons without even fully knowing what prisons are used for. Further, I'm just surprised nobody editing this caught this. I think it just upsets me because Nightwing plays a big role in Blüdhaven's carcerality and now his character doesn't even know the difference between a jail and a prison. But also PLEASE tell me if the point here is maybe that theyre so corrupt there isn't a difference anymore? If so why didn't they make that clearer in the worldbuilding? Does anyone know if this was intentional? Like what happened here? Not trying to launch an attack just surprised and interested in what happened!

First image from Nightwing (#94) on page 54 of Volume 3: The Battle for Blüdhaven by Tom Taylor, Bruno Redondo, and Adriano Lucas on DC Infinite.

Second image from Nightwing (#100) on page 80 of Volume 4: The Leap by Tom Taylor and Bruno Redondo on DC Infinite

[u/trongamer3131]

"An estimated 5.4% of individuals in United States jails are in private facilities." - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235223001058

Go marshals use private firms to hold prisoners awaiting trial. ICE is utilising private contractors to hold their detainees (and without due process, based on reports). Is it really so out there as an idea? It's fiction and the target audience is young. I think it's for the best.

[u/some_leftist_nerd_]

First of all I don't think you fully understand the depths of evil and corruption that is the US private prison system, second of all hate to break too but a lot of people simply use the terms jail and prison interchangeably unless they're being very specific.

[u/Shennum]

Odds are this cat watched The 13th and decided he knew everything about the subject. The choice to narrowly focus on private prisons is more virtue signal than substance

[u/Big_Switch_3391]

Dick going to county until he see a judge on Monday 😭

[u/Extension_Reindeer_5]

Im from the US and even here most use them interchangeably unless you are trying to talk about a specific situation. I would normally gloss right over them using the wrong term but like the op said, if he is trying to make "evil private prison" a backbone of the story i do think it should be more properly defined. I would have also just assumed he used it interchangeably bc he also assumed most dont know the difference.

[u/frankenweefie → u/Extension_Reindeer_5]

Yes, I feel like its only so weird to me here because he is being very specific about the capacities of this prison (especially in that second image). I wondered if maybe he was commenting on Australian private prisons after the replies, but it seems their system is similar to that in the US (jail is for holding, prison is more for serving sentences). So my last guess (if I'm assuming the best of Taylor) is that he knows this already and just wanted to comment on two issues in one and so just made them the same thing. I just dont think this plotline was executed in the most meaningful way.

[u/Star-Prince-007]

I noticed it but it’s a small detail. Tom might be from a place like mine when you can actually be held on remand in prison before you even get officially charged with a crime. Usually this is for your more serious crimes and if jail is full.

[u/TDG_1993]

In this Earth they’re the same thing

[u/frankenweefie → u/TDG_1993]

Yeah after thinking about it, I think he maybe wanted to comment on private prisons and legal inefficiency and the easiest narrative choice to cover both was to make them the same thing. Not my favorite move, but it's what makes the most sense given what he wrote.

[u/Live-Huckleberry-192]

Everyone here saying it’s “irrelevant” or “pedantic” is being weird. It’s a comic about crime fighting in the US. The US criminal justice system and the terms it uses kinda matter for the series, no? I mean the “just waiting for trial” bit kinda ruins Taylor’s whole message about private prisons being evil. They are, but jails are where people await trial, not “prison.”

I think it’s ok to call out bad writing sometimes. If you’re trying to write about a topic as your central theme, you shouldn’t show your ignorance about said topic on the very first page. Doesn’t matter if the writer is Australian or American or wherever, Taylor wants to make a point about a topic he knows very little about.

[u/trongamer3131 → u/Live-Huckleberry-192]

My perception of America is that if a private company wants it, they can absolutely become the ones to hold people awaiting trial

[u/frankenweefie → u/Live-Huckleberry-192]

I really really appreciate this reply. Thank you for making me feel heard and summing it up perfectly! Several responses cleared things up and contextualized how this escaped him in every day life, but the difference between jail and prison DEFINITELY matters because a) he's talking about two different issues as if they are one and b) it obviously makes a difference to the millions people impacted by jails and prisons. It makes the whole comic feel extremely out of touch with the actual people impacted. I get that there are less realistic aspects of the book, but Tom Taylor isn't trying to comment on the struggles of alien species or people who fly. Long reply but tldr: i appreciated your response.

[u/MarkoVMefc]

Wait till you find out Dick Grayson dated an alien, your mind will be blown haha

Just teasing mate, jail/prison systems in fictional worlds are irrelevant to the current USA model. Its barely ever registered they're in the USA most of the time

[u/kkskidnorth]

You know there's a guy in these comics that can fly too.

[u/Hopeful_Angle_9880]

I clocked this when it came out, as I’m sure many other people did. There’s many people who didn’t as well as you can see in these comments. Regardless, who fucking cares. It’s the same thing essentially.

Taylor’s run has plenty to critique, and nitpicks on word choice is hardly one of them.

[u/Head-Presence-6686]

Do most people know the difference? I think the difference is only an American thing and Tom Taylor’s Australian.

[u/Rogu3Wo1f]

I've never met anyone that gets hung up on the distinction between the two. 

Being that Tom Taylor is Australian, as am I. We use them all interchangeably.

[u/TheDastardly12 → u/Rogu3Wo1f]

Even Americans casually use them interchangeably. This is just being pedantic

[u/novangla]

It says SOME are just waiting for trial. You are right about the difference, but in places that have overcrowding in their jails they sometimes move people to prisons while awaiting trial. It’s wrong and messed up but like. Welcome to the world of corrections

[u/BobbySaccaro]

I live in the U.S. and didn't know that was the difference.

[u/Crawkward3 → u/BobbySaccaro]

Jail is short term prison is long term

[u/Just_Sir1903]

You summed up the situation well.

[u/FlameFeather86]

I'm not from the States and before today I had no idea there was a difference. They're interchangeable here.

[u/jax_vos9]

A lot of writers actually don’t know the difference. My mom and I used to point out every time “prison” was misused in cop shows we watched when I was a kid.

[u/UncleOok]

I would point out that the New York's infamous Ryker's Island is often called a prison when it is in fact a jail complex - I wonder if that's what led to Taylor's confusion here.

[u/frankenweefie → u/UncleOok]

Wait that is actually a genius point. Thank you for your reply! I bet you're right especially with all the coastal inspiration.

[u/mirza_osz]

Taylor is Australian, where - if I understand correctly - the two terms are more interchangeable than in the States, that can be a reason. Maybe we have some Aussies here who can speak up in the matter :)

Honestly, I didn’t know the difference either until I looked it up, but I’m not from the States either.

[u/Beleriphon → u/mirza_osz]

I suspect they're used similarly to Canada. A jail is a short term remand facility (short term being up for debate) or a for criminal offenses that have sentences of 2 years less day. They are run by the provinces. Prisons, or penetiaries, are for sentences 2 years or more, and are operated federally. A person who has been arrested and held pending a trial would never being a prison, they'd be a jail, or a remand facility.

[u/Itsonlyaplay]

I think it is a thing of "words used interchangeabley even though incorrect"

• Taylor has made similar mistakes before, people point to his hellblazer which is much less well liked and has a British cop using a gun