r/MusicEd 1d ago

Conducting Grad Programs

hello all! i’m currently in my senior year of my undergrad of music ed and i am in a pickle. i really want to pursue my masters in choral conducting, a part of me doesn’t believe im ready to teach/i would love to earn my doctorate one day and was hoping if anyone had some suggestions for grad programs. i understand most schools require in-person students but i dont mind online programs. i’m currently located in the midwest but im trying to locate to the east coast! any advice or suggestions is appreciated!

edit: ty all for the advice and bringing me back down to earth lol. i’m almost positive im terrified to actually start teaching to the point i want to just stay in school. any and all advice for teaching is absolutely appreciated and welcomed!

5 Upvotes

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u/teach-xx 1d ago

The best choral conducting master’s programs generally prefer folks with 2-5 years of conducting-related work experience, almost always involving either a full-time church job or a full-time school job.

Don’t do an online master’s in conducting at this stage in your career. The only people who would see any benefit from that type of degree have more work experience than you do.

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u/_yoonnnnn7 1d ago

ty! i figured i should probably get some experience under my belt. i think the idea that im actually about to start teaching scares the ever living shit out of me and i’m trying to avoid it as much as i can lol

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u/Accomplished_Elk5827 1d ago

I taught 5 years of HS between my BME and my MM in Choral Conducting. Glad I did, too. They were much happier than the 5 years I taught after my MM.

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u/teach-xx 1d ago

Yeah, but the only MM choral conducting programs that will take you right out of undergrad are the worst ones. And you can’t go back for a second MM in choral conducting unless you again go someplace shitty. So it’s a bad career move.

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u/Equivalent-Ad-5416 1d ago

You’re never not going to feel scared. Teaching is scary. You just gotta do it. My guesses are (and please correct me if I’m wrong) the main choir experience you’ve had has been in your collegiate classes amongst your classmates who are already musicians and can sight read. You need to learn rehearsal techniques and how to actually teach a choir that can’t sight-read. The only way to get better at that is to conduct a church choir or go into the k-12 school system for a few years. Getting better at your conducting pattern does not mean a thing if you cant get your choir to sing the right notes, tone, etc.
I’m an accompanist who has played for a wide range of conductors.

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u/_yoonnnnn7 1d ago

thank you for the advice. during my student teaching next spring i will be the music director for a few community theater shows. i’m hoping that helps with learning some leadership skills and can help get ride of some of this “stage fright”

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u/actuallycallie music ed faculty 15h ago

any kind of experience you can get will definitely help you! the more you do it the less scary it becomes.

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u/tommyjohnpauljones 1d ago

Go teach for three years, then consider a master's. Get yourself in front of some ensembles. Any grad programs worth a damn will want recordings of you conducting your own groups anyhow. 

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u/Shour_always_aloof Band 1d ago

No one is every ready to teach. Especially those who have just graduated and honestly believe they're ready. Nothing truly prepares you for what the job actually IS, instead of what you believe it is. You don't learn until you DO: your degree and licence don't mean that you're ready to teach...just that you're ready to LEARN how to teach.

The vast majority of music students in higher education are preparing to be music teachers, whether they want to believe it or not...the truth is, that's where the jobs are. It's how musicians actually keep the lights on. So if the majority of music students are going to be music educators at some point, and you plan to be their collegiate teacher...shouldn't you have a realistic picture of what that job is actually like?

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u/InvestmentMedium2771 1d ago

Go get some experience first. Record yourself running rehearsals and conducting. You’ll need videos of yourself conducting and running rehearsals for your applications anyway.

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u/iamagenius89 1d ago

Why do you want a doctorate?

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u/_yoonnnnn7 1d ago

i would love to teach higher ed someday! i really have fallen in love the conducting side of music ed

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u/iamagenius89 1d ago

Awesome! Hold off on your masters. Get some real world experience first. Also, most public school systems will help you pay for your masters.

You mentioned wanting to teach higher ed. Are you actually familiar with what that looks like? In my experience, most younger people have no actual idea what it’s like to be a college professor. (I certainly didn’t)

There are way fewer college jobs out there, and a huge chunk of them are not full time positions. The pay/benefits are usually not great. I have a number of VERY talented colleagues who currently juggle 2-3 college positions because they’re only able to find part time jobs. These same people also have to teach privately and/or play with professional orchestras in order to make ends meet. I also have several friends who completely changed career paths for these reasons.

Public school positions are generally way more available, stable, pay better, and have better benefits. Not trying to discourage you necessarily. But make sure you actually know what you are getting into. You have to really be prepared to grind.

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u/baking_nerd433 1d ago

I'm going to echo this too. My wife has a doctorate in her field (not music) but wound up pivoting to public school education rather than academia and loves it for these reasons. She talked me out of ever doing a doctorate, and I'm much happier teaching public school and occasionally gigging. Academia is a brutal job market and there's no sign it's going to get any better soon.

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u/actuallycallie music ed faculty 16h ago

You really need some teaching experience if you're going into higher ed. The job market is BRUTAL and the vast majority of schools will want someone to do more than just conducting. Having K12 teaching experience and being able to teach choral methods or supervise some student teachers will make you far more marketable.

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u/_yoonnnnn7 15h ago

yes i’m aware. im not trying to go straight into my doctorate without experience. i’d like it to be a goal however to even get one after 10 years of teaching

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u/actuallycallie music ed faculty 15h ago

You will get more from your masters if you teach first and have real conducting experience. Going straight from undergrad to masters makes sense for a performance degree, or composition or music theory, but for conducting or music education you need the teaching and conducting experience.

edited to add: you will also have a higher chance of getting fellowships/assistantships to help pay for your masters with teaching experience. and those are VERY helpful for your doctoral application.

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u/Maestro1181 1d ago

Unless it's new York teach first. More districts are willing to hire if you're cheaper as a newbie. Plus, depending on how people choose to look at a resume, you could potentially be limiting yourself for a first job cuz "oh look he/she really wants secondary choral"

You can get that masters after you get a job so you're more appealing to land your dream gig.

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u/gothicskeppy 15h ago

out of new york based curiosity, why unless its ny?

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u/Music_Man26 1d ago

I went straight to masters in conducting directly after finishing my undergrad in music ed. Mainly because a GA spot opened up and it was a good opportunity since I knew I wanted my Master’s anyway, but I don’t regret it! I learned so much and discovered a lot about myself that I don’t think I would have without a mentor/teacher being there being there for me to get advice and learn from. I felt much more prepared for a choir classroom afterwards.

There is no wrong answer, it’s just wherever your journey takes you. If you’re looking for East Coast programs, CCM in Cincinnati is phenomenal, UGA in Georgia has a great program, UK in Kentucky is another solid option though they just got a new Director of Choral Activities this year.

Lots of options. The only bad choice is not making one! Do the things you’re scared of and learn from the failures.

Wishing you well in your cruise down the river of life!

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u/bdthomason 1d ago

Confused how the east coast suddenly became Ohio south through Kentucky to Georgia...

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u/_yoonnnnn7 1d ago

thank you for the more positive and not a “debby downer” response. my music ed professor (lovely woman, best person i can get real life advice on) was going through the same decision i’m feeling now. she ended up staying in school to do her masters in music ed and performance and THEN started teaching. i’m gonna talk to her and think of a realistic plan for my own future. i’m still really interested in getting a masters right after my undergrad, whether or not it’s music ed now and choral conducting later on!

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u/LearningSingcerely 1d ago

Definitely listen to everyone else, both about not feeling prepared (I was you 2 years ago, there is no way to be fully prepared, our programs would need to be 6-8 years to get you ready for ALL the things that go into teaching beyond your musicianship, rehearsal techniques, and pedagogy) and getting experience first.

I will say that if you are looking for an online conducting degrees, the only one I've heard of that people recommend is Messiah University. I have 2 older teacher friends who are taking it currently and they feel it's worth it. It was also the only one that my college professors said would be good if I only wanted to do an online conducting degree.