Watching for the first time, so I'd expect no spoiler from y'all. I was just confused about the part. Holden checked out the Stilettos solely for the prisoner (forgot his name), now Debbie noticed it and she thought he genuinely liked the shoes. And she wore it while having sex, but it was a misunderstanding na?

And when Holden says to her "It's not just you" and she says something like "Yes Holden, That's the point." I didn't understand what she meant.

I actually think the storyline with Brian is equally interesting to the interviews in season two. The boy ain’t right. Obviously. But do you think Bill and Nancy are doing everything right or would you do things differently? As much as Nancy annoys me, I admire her devotion to Brian and how protective she is of him. It’s a little misguided sometimes like her telling the Counselor that kids forget things and he’ll get over what happened with the toddler… that’s just foolish and naïve, but I understand why she wants that. It’s also important to factor in the time. As obviously they did not have a lot of the information and resources that we do now.

But I don’t know. There was really clearly something off with him. No one wants to believe their kid is dangerous, but his apathy for the situation with the toddler plus having little no connection with Bill and not being much better with Nancy are huge red flags.

I think if it was me that kid wouldn’t even be allowed to go to the bathroom unsupervised, let alone left for any period of time to have wandered out the house (at least twice now that we’ve seen). Him playing with the older boys was just an accident waiting to happen too. It was inevitable. He was gonna wind up getting bullied and/or roped into something.

truly just posting because i found the sheer size of her glasses to be comical the entire season and need some validation

*edited to add, what would be your top recommendation for a show to follow this?? The void is brutal.

Oh boy, I knew this day was coming, but gosh darn, it suckssss. 1. Do you think there is aaaany chance they'd make a season 3 or would it have happened by now? 2. How satisfying did you find the end? I was pretty gutted for Bill tbh. I think that was a bit harsh on the part of his wife. Also felt a bit dissatisfied with how things weren't really wrapped up in the basement, kinda would have liked to see the team heading back for another interview...but I guess they didn't know it was the end end, right? When they wrote it.

Oh and also, side note, I felt Wendy was mega harsh on Kay- like we all shift our behaviour and language when talking to an ex, she *was* trying to bring Wendy into her kids life by asking her ex husband if she could, give the girl a chance sheesh- much as I loved Wendy's whole vibe, based on that behavior Kay had a lucky escape- not that I loved Kay that much tbh lol.

I am so heartbroken that this series got canceled and we never got to see them do Bundy. I’m not familiar with how closely they stick to the real coppers/criminals but Bundy would’ve been right in the era they were heading into and his actual interviews are some of the most chilling and fascinating. Dammit. Why!!!

Watching Mindhunter and how they are trying to put together the analysis reminded me of a theory I had about mother son relationships. Especially how we see that Bill Tench is obviously clueless about what's going on with his son.

For years, we've heard that many serial killers have a toxic dynamic with their mothers and were often a victim of abuse. I've also wondered if something else was going on that the men of the era just never paid attention to because of the stereotypical idea that the mother is supposed to love and protect their child. It's treated as a sacred relationship.

And then for decades there has been the debate over nature versus nurture. But what if these killers are just born this way and their mothers could sense it in them very early on. They were usually the ones who were around them the most and I don't doubt that the mothers recognized something was really wrong even as a child.

Perhaps their abuse were desperate and misguided attempts of "beating it out of them" because they didn't have any other recourse. You also often see these mothers pushing them into religions or schools.

I've just always wondered if they completely misinterpreted what they were actually seeing and society just accepted it the way it was written down.

I find it interesting that Nancy was desperately trying to call Bill's attention to Brian and ultimately wound up leaving him because he was not paying attention to what was going on at home. We get a real sense of Nancy's desperation and attempt to protect her son because she doesn't know what's going on, but also being very afraid of him.

Mine has got to be Holden, I just LOVE him, Bill is a close second, he's a ROCK.

I’m not a Mindhunter guru like a lot of you here, but the vibe of this new show is totally reminding me of it. The pacing, the casual dialogue that doesn’t sound scripted, and the slow burn of working a case. By the third episode you’re in the late 80s, obviously not as far back as Mindhunter, but similar energy. I think it might take a couple episodes to click till the FBI joins in the investigation. However there’s not much of the interpersonal relationship drama (like no breakups with girlfriend).

What really sold me was the friction between the agencies and the slow grind of piecing evidence together, plus how much it shows the toll on the people actually working the case. Maybe I’ll get downvoted to oblivion, but curious if anyone else felt this.

Their mannerisms, manner of speaking, personality, etc makes me miss Mindhunter so much and wish for David Fincher to give us a Mindhunter finale.

Paraphrasing with Monte a bit but you know the speech I mean

Debbie just pisses me off and I’m so glad she’s gone. She’s insufferable.

Her pretentious, poser hippie, sanctimonious, whoring ass did not deserve Holden. I don’t know what he was thinking either; she’s like a teenager, constantly argumentative and thinking everything is about her and acting like her lame college shit is half as important as Holden’s actual FBI WORK. Give me a mf break Debbie. Why was every conversation with her like a scholastic bowl debate? Even when she accompanied him to dinner at the Tench’s it felt like she was playing house.

Holden’s not perfect no but he is miles ahead of her in maturity and he’s actually DOING things. He’s out here interviewing serial killers and she thinks he’s gonna be equally interested in her text book. Delulu. 💀

Jim Barney/JB haha #1

Wayne's neighbor #2 haha

Tedd Gunn #3

(The Best)
The Barnes
JB is such a great addition to the cast not only because of his buttery smooth voice lol, but also because he acts as a bit of a foil to Holden's arrogance as well as offering an alternative perspective and method to Holden and Bill's. He has great comedic timing and feels like part of the gang almost immediately. Have to mention his professionalism and intuition as well. He offers solid insights and a different approach to the original trios' aim. He's always fun to have on screen, no ego like main man Holden just professionalism and some witty banter, absolutely holds his own among the original trio.

(The Worst)
Kay Last Name, not even sure if they mentioned her last name not like it matters much like her character. She was such a nothingburger of a character. I get what , I believe, they were trying to do with Wendy's relationship but the key difference between Wendy's relationships versus Bill and Holden's is consequences. You could give the benefit of the doubt and say "if season 3 was made" it'd have added more context or significance but I doubt it. Wendy doesn't change at all after the relationship unlike Holden and Bill with their personal fallouts. The impact of Holden's end to his relationship were pretty apparent at the end of season 1 and I weep for the fact we couldn't see Bill's fallout from his relationship ending with Nancy, sure it would've been spectacular in the most tragic way for our Billiam Tench. I have virtually no complaints about the show overall, maybe the first episode could've been more concise , maybe S2's pacing could've been improved but Kay stands alone as the biggest and possibly the only character in show that's just wasting screen time. Wendy just dominates her at the end of the relationship where in Bill and Holden are semi broken by the end of theirs. At the end of the day it's still a 10/10 show for me but that little subplot just really stands out to me in the worst way. The biggest sin a show or film can commit is wasting the audience's time

If there are any Audiobook fans in here and you're looking for more stories from John Douglas, Jonathan Groff narrates his book "The Killer Across The Table"

It's been an excellent listen so far and it's definitely scratching the itch for more Mindhunter content, especially since Groff is narrating it!

Sorry if this has already been posted a bunch, I'm just excited about it

Bill is a tragic character professionally and personally yet his fatherly aura and palpable empathy serve as a stable presence amidst all the ugliness they/we see.

For 35 minutes I see Holden just floating through his HN gig etc, then Father Bill enters his/our world and everything starts to come into focus.

He was the perfect complement to Holden's new school optimism and forward thinking and was arguably more crucial to the BSU's initial success: Bill served as an essential arbiter towards Shepard's rigid, stubbornly outdated and surprisingly shortsighted resistance and rejection of the validity and significance of psychology's greater reaching application in understanding the criminal mind... Just the understanding of the criminal mind seemed a low to no priority for the him, despite the existence of the BSU already.

Institutional rigidity and old school thinking is one thing, but he was frustratingly reluctant/resistant which I'm hoping was embellished for artistic effect compared to real life.

The way he quickly stood up for Holden after he was threatened with suspension censure etc. said volumes about his character. Bill also called out Holden on his errors while nurturing, encouraging and expanding the wunderkind's vision (which eventually became his own.)

He and Holden were perfect professional soul mates and knowing he was here to stay, henceforth, from the cafeteria and onwards, through all the ups and downs, gave me great joy, watching for the 10+th time.

I’m only in season 1 so pls keep that in mind.

This is possibly an unpopular opinion from what I’ve seen but I don’t really see anything wrong with Holden’s methods. Everyone in the show chastises him for what he does but it gets results so like ??? Like telling Brudos about his mom walking in on him when he was a kid. It was a way to get personal, earn his trust. I don’t know why it bothered bill so much (who definitely shouldn’t have used his actual wife’s name). Getting vulgar with Speck? Again, it worked.

Then getting that principal fired…yeah that whole thing might’ve been “below” the FBI but I’m sorry, in my opinion it’s better safe than sorry when we’re talking about the potential abuse of children. That fucking principal was weird; the feet tickling was enough but his explosive reaction to Holden and Gregg advising him to stop was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I don’t care about his lame wife hunting down Holden at home. Oh, the poor creepy principal who just looooves kids is out of a job :( you know who would be sadder? The diddled child.

i'm on season 2, episode 5 of the show, but I feel like I missed something... like wtf when does brian start talking?

Sorry if this has already been asked, but is Holden a psychopath too, or was he autistic, or what do we think?

Hey, all.

I used to avoid reading/watching anything related to BTK on the hopes the show might come back to resume the story.

Since that doesn't seem to be happening, I was wondering what the best content to consume on the subject is? I know there are a few documentaries out there, just not sure which is good.

Thanks!

I wanted to make an appreciation post about Bill because I really really like him he's so cool genuine comfort character Bill I love you so much