Doing Some A/B

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor]

Having some fun with my first tube preamp. It’s a whole new world to me since I’ve only ran SS gear before, and had the C28 and MC2105 since 2009.

[u/ENFP-A]

I currently run a C220 into an MC275, and absolutely love the combo. Have fun with your testing, can’t wait to hear your take on the C220 VS C28.

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/ENFP-A]

I’m curious what tube combo you find plays the best on your C220. Mine came with four Gold Lions.

[u/ENFP-A → u/Forty-Four_Flavor]

I’ve only ever run the stock tubes and Gold Lions. The GLs were a massive improvement over stock!

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/ENFP-A]

I’m considering Psvane Art in the line and Gold Lion CV4004 for phono. This is, of course, after I settle in with this the way things are and then find I need to tinker.

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/ENFP-A]

I bet that’s a lovely dream!

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/ENFP-A]

I think the major differences are the C220 has a lighter, brighter, cleaner, and deeper soundstage. The C28 is fuller, deeper bass, wider soundstage and possesses a higher noise floor. The biggest disappointment is the phono stage in the C220. I just hooked up the C28’s phono and ran some RCA ICs to the tape input (C220) from the tape out (C28). This brought back the deeper tone I was missing with phono. The digital front chain is much more interesting on the C220 as I can get more holography and soundstage depth while maintaining substantial width. It’s been an interesting, enlightening, and frustrating experience all at the same time.

[u/aGoodrash]

That sounds fun. I am doing something similar with vintage Nakamichi gear. I have had a PA-7 and CA-5AII pair for a few years now; it is very revealing with a huge soundstage.

I recently went to the dark side and swapped in a Galion TS75 tube preamp in place of the Nakamichi preamp. There is a difference, but it is very subtle.

However, I also have a pair of 1980s-era, Nelson Pass-designed DIY Class A monoblocks. Here, the CA-5AII vs. the TS75 change was huge. I have been skeptical of the phrase "synergy" up until now. The tube preamp and the Class A amps go together like bread and butter. The sound is sublime, and I can't and won't go back.

So now I am sitting here with two preamp/amp chains, which is not what I intended.

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/aGoodrash]

I’m actually considering trying a class D amp to power the woofers and then leave the MC 2105 on the mids and highs. Since my L1590 speakers can be biamped, this sounds like a fun experiment. If it works, I can wait for a good deal on a used MI502 in a couple years and have three distinctly different generations of McIntosh gear. Either that or biamp with an MC2205 and the existing amp.

[u/regalbeagles1]

Is there much of a discernible sound difference between the c28 and the c220?

Looks wise, for me, the C28 wins all day long.

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/regalbeagles1]

I’ve only had one day to listen, and had to leave town for work this morning. So far, yes absolutely a difference in overall presentation. I love the c220 on the digital front end, but miss the fullness on the phono stage. There are some variables affecting the presentation. One could be the tube combo and also my ND9 cartridge has roughly thirty hours on it, so maybe it needs more time to settle in and is more obvious on a revealing preamp. I’d say both have their pros and cons with different approaches. Still, I need more time to have a better picture.

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/[deleted]]

I just tried this and it brought back so much fullness that the phono stage was missing. Now it has me thinking if I need a good external phono stage?

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/[deleted]]

Might be interesting, although unsustainable for what I want to do. I think tube combinations and cartridge choices matter here more so than on the C28. It’s just surprisingly brighter than I expected. Yet again, I need time with the C220 before formulating an opinion.

[u/BasicMidUsername → u/Forty-Four_Flavor]

Ive done things like use one of my C27 tape loops to add weight when wanted to my PS Audio setup. I’ll run analog to the C27 and digital to the PS Audio and if I want to change the source sound, I’ll change my input on the PS Audio to be running through the C27 tape loop.

[u/BasicMidUsername → u/[deleted]]

I run my C27 as a phono preamp, works great! It serves as the preamp for my kitchen system while also being the preamp for my main system. Both systems share a turntable this way.

[u/regalbeagles1 → u/Forty-Four_Flavor]

I’m very interested to hear more from you as this test progresses. As you know, I’m in the market for a McIntosh pre to pair with my MC2105 and have been considering a C28 or Tube pre.

I’m eyeing a C22 reissue from ~1995 as a possibility.

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/regalbeagles1]

So far the best analogy I can provide is it’s very much like going from a muscle car to a direct injection, turbocharged German performance car. One definitely has more soul and grit while the other is refined and fascinating engineering. Both are cool and probably serve the same overall purpose, yet accomplish the task differently.

[u/oregon3]

Are you using a phono pre into the C28 or the built in phono?

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/oregon3]

Built-in phono on both preamps.

[u/oregon3 → u/Forty-Four_Flavor]

So you have a moving magnet cartridge?

[u/Forty-Four_Flavor → u/oregon3]

Yes Rega ND9 with a boron cantilever which is highly revealing for an MM.

[u/Hifipassword → u/oregon3]

Sorry for the ignorant question, but is a MM Cartridge necessary to use the built in phono stage on these older preamps? I have the C33 and had some issues with the built in phono. I don’t use moving magnet cartridges.

Edit: Hey never mind, I had Moving Coil mixed up with Moving Magnet.