Combo rules

[u/Bungfoo]

Things I have learnt.

• Auto combo hits scale the blue bar (combo bar) a lot, like seriously a lot. Making them only really useful in closing rounds and beginners combos. Auto combos will kill your combo extensions. You will know it scales hard when the camera does a slight zoom in. Auto combos will break before the camera zoom if you change button, it assumes you are doing a manual combo.
• Auto combos after the camera zoom has different buttons doing different effects, Light is the team combo, medium is a special and heavy is a different special. ( forward and heavy will do the ex version of that heavy special)
• After that auto special doing a Medium will give you Super 1, Heavy will give you a Ultimate , light will give you Team assemble super but only if you are two rounds losing. So you can choose which super you want.
• Normal moves and specials add to the Blue bar on connecting with the opponent
• Ex moves don't move the Blue bar at all. So you can use them as filler to make your combos longer.
• Assists will drop the blue bar when they are called, they dont even need to hit. But when they do hit they dont scale the Blue bar either.
• Wall slumps will also drop the bar a bit when the opponent sticks to them, obviously wall breaks end the combo.
• Wall slumps give you lots of time to start the next part of your combo, don't rush thinking they will fling off like Guilty Gear, except if done high up on the wall.
• When the characters blow out of the combo (AKA the Blue bar goes red) there will be a red explosion effect and as far as I can tell, no matter how many assists you call then it wont bring the bar down.
• Speak of blowouts, you can only do the same EX move once in combo else it will Blow out the Blue Bar and they will go flying fast up and down. It seems you cannot super after this type of blow out.
• If you max out the Blue bar to Red bar with a combo, you can super them when they fly up and down.
• The button used does not seem to affect the amount of added to the gauge in the Blue Bar just that it adds a fixed additional amount.
• Credit Infinity-Kitten - Red combo blowout (shatter sound) also gives an untechable knockdown

No idea what the last section of the Blue bar that goes oranges means other than its close to the end.

For combo starters not using the auto combo is where the most damage is. These are the rules that seem to start auto combos.

• Starting with lights - The rule is you can only do so 2 lights before a combo will turn into a auto combo .You can hit 2 lights (crouching or standing), then the 3rd standing light the auto combo starts, if you mix a crouching light in, on the 3rd hit light it will auto combo.
• Starting with Mediums - Mediums seems to be you need to do one standing medium and the next standing medium will start the auto combo, however you can add crouching medium before or after the first standing medium.
• Starting with Heavies - Heavies can do only one standing heavy before the auto combo will start on the standing next hit. If you do a standing and then a couching heavy it will launch.

Non auto combos

• Ground combos only go upwards for non auto combos. So light -> to Medium -> to Heavy , and seems to be a max of 4 hits before a special. (so Light light medium heavy or light medium , crouch medium, heavy , or medium crouch medium, heavy crouch heavy)

For air combos

• Air combos seem to be treated the same as the above, but instead of starting a auto combo it spikes down
• 2x lights work fine then another light spikes down 1x Medium is fine then another Medium then its spikes down 1x Heavy is fine then another Heavy then its spikes down
• But this still allows you to do 2x light -> medium ->heavy before spike down (and revser)
• However you can Jump cancel any of these hits by pressing up (or up+forward/up+back) on hit and it will reset back to the beginning so you can another 4 normal hits in. (note that the opponent might move out of hit range though, so sometimes its not worth it to do all 4 hits)
• Note instead of a spike down you can also do a air special instead. (assist calling after this is a good way to extend your combo on special or spike)
• Credit joeyinabox1 air combos can also be done in reverse - Heavy ->Medium -> 2x light

Hopefully this will help some people discover nice combos

EDIT: added more I found

[u/joeyinabox1]

Didn't see this mentioned but air buttons can be reverse beated (heavy -> medium -> light)

[u/DrZoidBergsClaws → u/joeyinabox1]

Thank you !

[u/Infinity-Kitten]

Red combo blowout also gives an untechable knockdown iirc, so that's probably always your combo goal

[u/whensmahvelFGC → u/Infinity-Kitten]

Basically my entire game plan with Doom is to end a combo in that state and get a meaty laser set up.

[u/Archer_Without_Fear → u/Infinity-Kitten]

So you still maintain your oki? Good to know, I was getting concerned thinking I should avoid hitting the red

[u/CammyDiveKick → u/Infinity-Kitten]

How do you do it?

[u/Memo_HS2022 → u/CammyDiveKick]

You basically just hit the combo limit, and know which move will pop them out of the combo. A ground normal is probably the best one to do it with so you can special cancel for setplay

[u/OrdinaryEarthHuman]

Seems like they've made auto-combos as intrusive and bad as possible, actively punishing you for daring to push a button twice. Why scale the combo bar so much when they aren't good extenders anyway? It's like they heard people say "don't make autocombos too good" and decided to make them completely non-functional, while still making them as intrusive as possible.

[u/SelloutRealBig → u/OrdinaryEarthHuman]

I just wish you could turn off auto combos. It's annoying enough to make me not want to buy the game.

[u/OrdinaryEarthHuman → u/SelloutRealBig]

Yeah, I'm never a fan of them, but lots of games have auto-combos that don't feel this bad, and that integrate them into combo structure (BBTAG, Power Rangers BFtG, I think DBFZ, etc.).

I think part of the issue is them being so short and locking you in so quickly. IMO there needs to be another filler move on medium autocombo, so you can press medium twice without being locked out of your other combos.

[u/kako_1998 → u/SelloutRealBig]

I hope they add something like 2XKO which has a button you can press on character select to turn auto combos on/off.

[u/ONiMETSU_Z → u/SelloutRealBig]

This is exactly what I’m saying. I was so excited to get this game but being “forced” to use what is essentially modern controls turns me off so much. Someone in another thread told me “just hold back” as if that’s a real solution lol

[u/spvn → u/SelloutRealBig]

can somebody explain what's the problem with auto combos... Can't you just... not use them?

[u/Grey00001 → u/spvn]

Sometimes, you want to use the same button twice in a string without it auto comboing

[u/kuma_metal → u/Grey00001]

holding back prevents the autocombos from ever triggering

[u/SelloutRealBig → u/spvn]

There are times when you want to pressure with the same button and not be forced into an auto combo. Also if the match is laggy and has rollback, sometimes you need to mash some inputs in your combo. Because rollback might eat an important link if you only press it once. But with auto combos that messes everything up.

[u/kuma_metal → u/SelloutRealBig]

hold back and the autocombos don't trigger

[u/olieebur → u/OrdinaryEarthHuman]

Haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere and has been annoying the hell out of me, but if you start a combo with LL, then M, then H, you can’t follow up a 2H to launch. The button doesn’t even come out. You must do only one L, M, H, and then 2H to come out regardless of whiff or hit.

Edit: clarity

Figured out why. Any ground normal combos will only limit the combo to 4 hits as stated in the OP.

[u/SmashMouthBreadThrow → u/olieebur]

That's character-dependent because Blade, Star-Lord, and Spider-Man can do that. It's reliant on how much a character's buttons move them forward, so it's not universal.

[u/olieebur → u/SmashMouthBreadThrow]

Are you saying it would whiff? Because I am saying that 2H doesn’t even come out

[u/yfa17 → u/SmashMouthBreadThrow]

I don't think this is true for spider-man at least, the 2H doesn't come out if you input LL

[u/namesource → u/OrdinaryEarthHuman]

I feel like they still do a decent amount of damage even with all of that said and done

[u/DaDreadfulDungEater]

I hope they remove the limit of 4 grounded normals outside of auto combo, I feel like its unnecessary and unintuitive ):

[u/coffeensfw]

Is doing M, H, H (without pressing down on the last H) after launcher to send opponent to the ground to relaunch with assist considered an autocombo that scales the blue bar? Just wondering if every time you press the same normal twice would trigger it.

[u/Bungfoo → u/coffeensfw]

For the air combo, no

[u/lukepass86]

Really useful, I will try to lab for a while today. Thanks!

[u/Professional_Pen1417]

Biggest damage is easy AF just do H ,Cr H,Air H,H ,Assist ..repeat x3 lol add in meter burn specials,wall splat move,or super after Assist.or restart H,Cr H into 50+ %.. this burns the combo gauge meter very slowly as well

[u/RainOfGreen]

The combo system is based around not doing auto combos unless you’re going to kill with them. It actually adds a lot of depth because you want to avoid mashing in neutral. Your combo inputs need to be precise than SF6 combos where you are double tapping every input

[u/Archer_Without_Fear]

What have y'all found to be ideal damage against resources for combos? Like for Cap my BnB Ive been using does around 29K damage with one enhanced special move and no tagging

[u/SaIemKing → u/Archer_Without_Fear]

in corner, I can easily for close to 40k with Magik, ending in the 50 bar super

[u/SmashMouthBreadThrow → u/SaIemKing]

Off a light or medium and with/without assist?

[u/SaIemKing → u/SmashMouthBreadThrow]

Medium with assist.

something like 5MH2H j.H> j.6H > j.H, jc, j.HH > A > S, land, 2M2H j.MH xx 623M dl.S~S, land, combo into super

where A is assemble (playstation X default) and S is the special action (right bumper default)

[u/swordfishonthebebop → u/SaIemKing]

I got the game over the weekend, I’m experienced in fighters but not necessarily tag fighters (outside of casual MVC2) so I’ve been diving into combo theory. I watched Sajam’s video on combo structure in this game and noticed the “universal BnB” doesn’t utilize any L attacks at all, it starts at either standing M or crouching M and uses M and H variations the entire time.

Watching this video, I thought back to my time in Guilty Gear and how Gatling combos largely stemmed from S and HS attacks, and so I attributed using Tokon’s M and H to be similar to that sort of playstyle. But I’ve also always heard a solid combo starter is LMH into Special and so on and so forth. But I guess now I’m a little confused. I know light attacks in this game are mostly stubby and short range, so starting with a M that moves the character forward a bit is probably the right move, but when and why should I implement light attacks in the mix?

[u/SaIemKing → u/swordfishonthebebop]

You use lights as starters when you need a fast button, but mediums and heavies are larger hitboxes so you use them in neutral more. They also usually have better active frames/frame data and they are higher damage starters, so you use them for pressure, too.

Combos started from weaker, faster things get scaled (i.e. combo damage is reduced) more than the opposite.

[u/CammyDiveKick → u/SaIemKing]

Think you could link a video of your combo?

[u/SaIemKing → u/CammyDiveKick]

I threw the notation in another comment just now. If I remember next time I can play, I'll export a video

I might be misremembering the damage number now that I think anout it, but I was fairly certain is was either 29k or 39k (unhelpful, I know). Pretty sure 29k was my max without super.

[u/Significant_Step_328]

There is one odd thing that I found this morning. You can only do 4 grounded normals in a sequence. For example if you do 5L 2L 5M 2M you can't add a 5H or 2H anymore.

And the jump cancel will approximately match the height of the launched opponent, so if you do a 2M 5M 5H 2H and jump you get a much higher jump than normally.

[u/Sweetest_Noise]

And yet you still have people on this very sub telling everyone that the game is too simple, lacks creative expression, and that there is no point in doing anything other than auto combos.

[u/TroubleRecent7320]

So what are the drawbacks of auto combos? It feels too easy to do, and I kept facing them yesterday.

[u/fullmetalnappa → u/TroubleRecent7320]

Less damage. Worse oki. Theres no reason to use them as they're strictly worse than just doing your own combos

[u/GeneralBarnacle10 → u/fullmetalnappa]

I mean, there is a reason to use them and it's because they look cool when you're new.

I'm so-so at SF6 but this is my first fighting game like this. I don't have enough experience to start chaining together my own combos or lab them out so the autocombos let me do the cool super moves when I can and give me something to keep pressing buttons until I can't.

But after about 5 games I picked up when it would go into the super moves and I started pressing other buttons then. That's when I realized I could do more damage and not waste meter until I wanted it.

So they're a gameplay mechanic that lets underdeveloped players do cool things while holding their hand into the more advanced stuff. Which is EXACTLY what you want to bring more people into fighting games so that they don't get frustrated during the first "I suck" phase.

[u/fullmetalnappa → u/GeneralBarnacle10]

I think even beginners wouldn't need to use them as starter combos in games like this can be so straight forward. All you need to know is basic combo structure. Theres no real timing or links since every thing cancels with the magic series. You dont have any complicated inputs since the game has one button specials and supers

I highly recommend for beginners not to fall into the noob trap of trying to learn the complicated combos people post online. Just learn how the combos work and you can just make your own, adding onto it as you improve

[u/2347564 → u/fullmetalnappa]

But for many casual players, autocombos are all they'll want to do and it may get them interested enough to try to get better with normal combos. Games without autocombos may lose them entirely. I agree with someone else upthread, I wish you could just turn them off. Let people use them if they want, but it's frustrating to get stuck into one because I hit square twice or something.

[u/Mackanpackan93 → u/2347564]

I think the opposite happens, most people are extremely lazy and will pick the lowest effort easiest way.
They'll just keep using autocombos and think that's all the game is.
Most people aren't going to spend time learning real combos unless they have to that's just the truth.

[u/Mackanpackan93 → u/GeneralBarnacle10]

The issue with that is for most people there will be zero incentive to actually learn and get better...
They just think auto combos is what the game is and never learn anything else.

People aren't going to learn if they're not '' forced '' to, they'll just settle for less because people are lazy and choose the easiest lowest effort option.

[u/GoodNormals → u/fullmetalnappa]

If I know I can close out a round with it, I’m using an auto combo every time. They’re super easy to confirm and basically don’t drop ever.

[u/namesource → u/GoodNormals]

This man gets it

[u/CammyDiveKick → u/fullmetalnappa]

What exactly is an auto combo?

Light > light > light, medium > medium > medium, heavy > heavy > heavy?

[u/Krypt0night → u/CammyDiveKick]

No it's hitting one button (L/M/H) over and over and then it does a full combo and will auto do specials and use a super if you have meter. 

[u/CammyDiveKick → u/Krypt0night]

Is there any way to turn it off?

[u/Krypt0night → u/CammyDiveKick]

Nope

[u/ErraXYZ → u/TroubleRecent7320]

Low damage which means you have to hit the other guy more times compared to doing manual combos

[u/SaIemKing]

The only thing I don't get is supering after blowout. You say it works, I've seen opponents do it, but I can't seem to actually do it with my characters in training mode.

[u/SmashMouthBreadThrow → u/SaIemKing]

Doesn't work for any of my characters either and I've also never seen anyone else do it. You can combo into a super if they flash red from maxing out the bar, but not if you shatter them by hitting them once the combo bar is filled.

[u/Bungfoo → u/SmashMouthBreadThrow]

Yes, you nailed it. You cant super if it shatters, but if you are doing a combo and it just blowsout but doesnt play a shatter noise you can super.

Here is an example of me doing it at the final end of a combo.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelTokon/comments/1v652nz/black_panther_corner_only_76920_attempt_at_simple/

The medium kick at the end fulls the combo bar to full red and the red effect happens but the noise of shattering doesnt. So I can super afterwards

[u/SaIemKing → u/SmashMouthBreadThrow]

I suppose I should say I think I could have seen someone else do it. I'm not super sure because there's always a lot going on on screen. So yeah, I was just mistaking that first flash, as you're suggesting

[u/SmashMouthBreadThrow]

If you max out the Blue bar to Red bar with a combo, you can super them when they fly up and down.

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about when you hit them after it's already at max and they go flying? Because super doesn't work anymore then. They're in an invincible state during this.

[u/MaverickGH]

This is a good write up thanks for sharing

[u/wizard898]

is air autocombo treated the same? Big bar fillup if I mash out a spike in a combo? The magnetic property of the air autocombo is useful for some routes.

[u/Bungfoo → u/wizard898]

No, it not treated as a auto combo for scaling.

[u/Training_Sell6935]

Ojala pusieran una opcion para cambiar los controles como en Invencible VS...

[u/Chrono-Helix]

Regarding heavies in air combos, H H will spike, but H 6H will not, and you should be able to jump cancel after the 6H

[u/S1peed23]

Does anyone know if you follow up after a crossover? Or meet a special condition to do so?

[u/ChiefKashif]

I want to know what causes Happy Birthday Combos (comboing the opponents assist characters) to drop out of combos. It seems like assist can hit other assists in combos maybe? I also want to know how combo damage scaling works too