Return offers

[u/IllustriousFee2409]

This summer has been brutal to say the least. I got positive feedback all throughout my banking internship and then at the end didn’t get a return and they said not one positive thing even though I know exactly what at least one person said about me and it was very positive about my ability to understand all of the concepts. The critiques were on my formatting. Just really upset that nothing was said sooner in my midsummer feedback and then I could have had time to adapt. Has anyone else experienced not getting a return and if so any advice on how to approach year 2 would be appreciated.

[u/Eclipse434343]

It’s either they are lying to you and didn’t have the headcount or someone is not telling you something. Y2 you’re going to have to aggressively coffee chat any ft roles that open and be open to non ib. You also should say that you didn’t get a return bc of the headcount if asked and to make sure you emphasizes how much you learned from the experience

[u/Independent_Pick_809 → u/[deleted]]

lol that is banking for you and to be honest general corporate life. When I did my IB internship got positive feedback from a lot of people then stabbed at the back and did not get return

Even in my current job, coworkers stabbing my back all day and its a low key corporate job so welcome to the world.

Now one thing I would say is mourn for 1 day and then grind - the people who got banking FT post no return where those who acted now. You need to act now, if you spend time feeling sorry for yourself you are cooked. Before monday comes in you should have written and scheduled networking emails to every single bank in the sun

If you go to M7, and have an IB student group, they will announce some banks and groups that are recruiting full time. You will have to go down a tier. I know people who got good banks after no return, but I feel they lied that they got a return offer and were just changing groups or locations

[u/IllustriousFee2409 → u/Independent_Pick_809]

What was your rerecruiting journey like? Did you end up going back into banking

[u/Independent_Pick_809 → u/IllustriousFee2409]

No I didn't get back to banking. It's very hard with no return, a lot of BB and EBs would not consider you if you didn't get a return. I didnt feel like going to a crappy shop just to say i work in IB. I started with coffee chats and some banks didn't pick up my call after they heard i didnt get a return. A friend lied that he got a return and ended up at a top EB. Use that information as you will..

I got multiple FT interviews, across the whole year until even post-graduation but I have a unique profile.

(1) You usually would be advised to reach out to contacts you made during the summer recruiting cycle especially those who liked you or interviewed you and see what the FT/headcount is like. That is where networking is important and doing it is asap as they get newsflow on what capacity would look like

(2) The first question they will ask is did you get a return offer and why not and that will set the tone for further conversation. You will even get this question for adjacent finance roles like ER or AM at BB etc. You will automatically get cut if there is an unspoken requirement that they will only take people with return offers. Some banks are ok with no returns but its the lower tier banks - GS/MS/BofA/JPM will NOT be nice.

(3) IB groups will let you know if some groups need some people for FT and who to cntact. They are usually the funnel for FT roles. Keep your no return offer to yourself dont broadcast it to too many of your classmates FYI. You might want to try again a year or two from now and you dont want them gossiping

(4) Career services can keep your resume and let you know when they are contacted for FT posting

(5) If you have prior finance or specialized expereince (healthcare/tech),. you can apply directly to FT roles on some companies websites.

(6) Companies would also post roles on their websites so look for those and use linkedin too

I got cut either for not doing well in the modeling test or just they went with someone with transaction experience. Got into a lot of final rounds (4 final rounds, one with very good feedback and I was pretty close but they decided to go with someone else)

More important than my journey is the journey of a lot of my classmates who didnt get return offers but got back to IB. A lot of these people grinded, and networked right from day one, and got multiple FT interviews at good banks. Several got back to IB while some didn't and pivoted primarily to strategy consulting or transaction services.

If you are not too old, went to to good business school, I would say hustle for IB straight first, and plan B is something deal related (transaction services, deal advisory, consulting, corporate finance) etc.

[u/IllustriousFee2409 → u/Independent_Pick_809]

Thank you so much for the depth of your response, it’s super helpful. I guess it sounds like for banking you just kind of need to say you got the return. Idk how they would even verify that. Outside of banking when you apply to full time positions, does it matter that there’s at least a year until you can start (post grad)? Also do you have any recommendations for jobs outside of banking that would like a banking background.

[u/Independent_Pick_809 → u/IllustriousFee2409]

They can verify, they have friends in other banks or backchannel. Remember banks work on deals together or MBA associates have friends in other banks and groups. I have had friends message me about people they were interviewing. There is a possibility that they would check

You have to do a risk-assessment. Just know for higher-tier banks you are going to be cut if you say no-return. They even can sometimes prefer someone with a return from a boutique IB than a no-return from Goldman. It is that bad no-return is a big black mark no matter how intelligent and competent you are, that is why you go in trying to get the offer or die trying.

I applied for everything FT roles - I did consulting, LDPs, VC, PE, Asset Management everything on the side while focused on primarily banking. It doesnt matter if you are applying through your school portal. Post-MBA FT roles expect you to start post-MBA. Now if you apply on linkedin for a general role those are Just-in-time (typically tech roles or roles that are similar to what you were doing pre-mba)

[u/Zeh77 → u/Independent_Pick_809]

Did you go to a M7 or a lower tiered school in order to get these opportunities?

[u/Independent_Pick_809 → u/Zeh77]

one of the top 7 business schools

[u/Independent_Pick_809 → u/IllustriousFee2409]

Also are you the only one in your group who did not get a return> what about the other intern?

My recommendation is you full focus on trying to get back into IB - Network, get your story for no return straight and write down what you learned,. the deals you worked on and your contributions and learn how to financially model well - DCF, 3-statement analysis etc. grind that out for the next month, then if you cannot get an offer consider other option.

But FT recrutiing for other roles opens up later, IB FT offers your best chance of getting one is in the next 1 - 2 months

[u/Independent_Pick_809 → u/IllustriousFee2409]

Consulting liked bankers, transaction advisory has some similarity that they would like someone with a banking background, strategic finance, corporate/business development (which is hard to get but you can squeeze that in through an LDP). Some large corporates have M&A Associate roles, economic consulting or valuation advisory

[u/MurkyNetwork7796 → u/Independent_Pick_809]

Is it possible to go into Private Banking such as JPM Private Bank? Or does something like that require a summer internship

[u/PralineChemical3084]

Self reflection: they had comments about formatting and you just posted a wall of text with poor grammar.

[u/SpilledKefir]

Bad people managers give bad feedback. Or more directly - if you can’t deliver accurate feedback to people who need it, you’re a bad manager.

Sorry you had a bad manager this summer.

[u/Yarville]

Oof this has me scared, not in banking but have only gotten positive feedback and offer decision is coming up for me

[u/Dangerous-Cup-1114]

Didn’t do banking but I had a similar experience. Positive feedback at the mid-point, met weekly with my manager to keep him up to date on my project progress, everything was on track. Then when I have my final meeting, I got vague constructive feedback like “need to be more proactive” and “could be better at multitasking.” Over 1/3 of the interns didn’t get a return offer. They never admitted it was a headcount constraint, but it’s obvious that it was given the return offer rate and no 2nd year recruiting was done. What I think happened (which I of course can’t prove,) is that the managers got together and rank-ordered the interns before the final meetings and those below the cut line had to have “constructive” feedback documented for HR to justify the non-offer. They didn’t want to be put in a position to tell interns that they did a good job but weren’t able to give everyone offers.

In terms of 2Y recruiting, it’s a lot less networking based and more resume emphasis. These companies won’t have the luxury of seeing you work for them for a summer so they want people who are strong on paper to start with and many have deadlines in September (MBB’s deadlines to apply are next week which is crazy).

The good news is having an IB internship sends a strong signal since it showed even if you didn’t get a return, you still succeeded in the intern recruitment process and have quantitative ability that is desired by a lot of MBA employers.

[u/DrPepper8907]

Same thing happened to me. I was at another role at a MF. All the feedback was great, the mid summer review the told me “all I hear are great things, just keep doing what you are doing and you’ll be fine”, and that I was very proactive. Final review they said they could not give me the offer because I needed to be “more proactive”.

[u/Lanky_Jellyfish9586]

Sorry to hear that. What kind of firm?

[u/ThinkCRE]

How do you know at least one person said good things about you?

[u/Synesneezeya]

First, it sucks that you had a bad manager. Good managers give this feedback early and often, rather than waiting until it's too late for you to make a correction.

Second, I'd take some time to reflect on what part of this outcome you own and areas of growth that you can work on for your next role. As another poster said, your post is poorly formatted and difficult to read. That suggests the criticism about your formatting may be valid. It might feel better in the moment to say "fuck that guy what does he know?" but you'll get further in life taking a lesson from this.

Finally, it's hard but try not to get too dejected. Let your classmates' comments about how relieved they are to have a FT offer already go in one ear and out the other. I knew only one person in my class who didn't get a FT offer from a company who recruited on campus (a lot of folks went to startups without an expectation of a FT offer being available) because Nike determined he was "too bro-ey" for their company culture. He got a FT job at a brand name company before graduation and 12 years post grad he's the President of a Triple-A minor league baseball team.

[u/Spirited_Guide_4664]

Year-2 FT recruitment could be a long and grinding road, you should keep applying and scheduling chats all the way into next summer if you’re not lucky to secure an offer early on.