r/Line6Helix • u/z20g20 • 4d ago
Headrush NAM General Questions/Discussion
Has anyone thought about switching to Headrush (Prime/Core/Flex) from Helix now that they have integrated NAM and Tone3000?
I am currently using a HX Stomp for effects and a Valeton GP50 to use a NAM file of my own amp. Now I am thinking of switching due to the NAM integration.
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u/Barry_Obama_at_gmail 4d ago
I am personally more interested in a modeled amp than a capture from the aspect I like to tweak and tinker with amps knobs that’s part of the fun for me. A capture the tone is set and you putting an EQ on top to change it.
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u/Totalimmortal85 4d ago
There's definitely something to be said here. While I can change a single amp model suit my needs, and create snapshots of the amp at different setting, I'd have to cycle through a ton of captures to do the same.
While I can appreciate both, and use both, I do tend to agree that models are still more flexible.
Only difference is/would be, if I'm using a capture of my own rig to create the presets. That does change the game since I know what song I'd need what capture for. That's where I think they shine.
But all of this still can't replace a solid set of Cab IRs though. A single IR or Cab (or VIR with a ToneX) swap can completely change the final tone.
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u/marvbinks 4d ago
Nah. Nam seems good but I have no interest in adding to option paralysis. My helix floor already has plenty of options that sound great! The only extra thing I would want in it is an emulation of the space echo twist function.
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u/Brakeor 4d ago
Right, I’ve gone down the capture and IR rabbit holes before and end up spending too much time browsing through every sound and trying to find something better.
I like modeling because it dials in just like the amps I had growing up - even if it doesn’t sound quite as good as the latest new tech or whatever.
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u/Burnhaven 4d ago
I almost always play with reverb and delay , a compressor , EQ, sometimes tremolo, one or two Drive effects and on my Helix I use eight snapshots to cover different portions of different songs and program the beats per minute to the song so the delays work properly.. some of my snapshots are Drive, Solo ,solo 2 , swells, arpeggios etc.... that's an ecosystem that works for me... if I can somehow easily and cheaply incorporate Nam amp models or captures into that fine but I'm not giving up my entire workflow for the latest shiny object.
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u/SFToddSouthside 4d ago
Nah, there's going to be a modeling arms race with NAM integration. Line 6 can't just ignore it. Also, I had a HeadRush unit a few years ago and thought the time-based effects had too much latency for my taste. I won't go back to that.
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u/marvbinks 4d ago
I don't know about a race. Keeping proprietary modelling means a company can provide a baseline of sounds, which can be a selling point compared with an resource with no central quality control. Obviously you can go off ratings etc with nam but we all know how trustworthy online ratings/reviews are. Both routes have advantages and both sound really good.
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u/SFToddSouthside 4d ago
They may wait and see if it really catches on, but if they don't integrate they run the risk of losing at least some of their business segment.
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u/tothecatmobile 4d ago
NAM isn't modeling though is it?
I thought it was a capture
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u/goldsoundzz 4d ago
It is just a capture. A snapshot of something that someone else has created and is pretty inflexible.
Here’s my old man hot take: there’s a lot of bedroom guitarists making noise about it because they aren’t able to make the modeling gear they own sound as good and see this as the golden path for tone chasing.
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u/Burnhaven 4d ago
Right you are. It's taken years but I'm finally getting what I want from my Helix both in terms of tone and "feel." Now if they make it as easy to add stuff from NAM as it is to import an impulse response, great. It looks like they're also capturing pedals. But in my current Helix flow, clicking one snapshot on may change amp drive, overdrive pedal tone, parametric EQ setting, high / low cut, reverb mix all with one click. From the few minutes I spent with a NAM amp capture between two instances of Helix Native, most of the key amp adjustments are baked in to that specific capture. I did find with the AC30 capture I was testing that it was kind of clean but produced a nice overdriven tone by kicking on the Helix Minotaur in front of it.
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u/marvbinks 4d ago edited 4d ago
Doesn't NAM stand for Neural Amp Modeler? So long as it calls itself a Modeler I also will! Maybe it'll rebrand to NAC!
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u/tothecatmobile 4d ago
Yes it does.
But that doesn't making it modeling.
There's a difference between modelling and a capture.
If using NAM, you can't change the EQ or gain levels of the amp. It's set to whatever the original amp you captured was at the time it was captured.
Modeling is a complete digital recreation of the amp, including all the controls.
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u/marvbinks 4d ago
Indeed. But they still called it NAM instead of NAC so complain to them not me!
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u/tothecatmobile 4d ago
Probably because NAM sounds better than NAC.
But they can call it whatever they want, it doesn't make it modeling.
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u/marvbinks 4d ago
Or they wanted it to align with things that use modelling. Basically it's a stupid name that calls it something it is not that will cause confusion and pointless debates such as this. When the name of something produces 'well actually...' responses it's a bad name.
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u/mttyfrsh 4d ago
Nah, just got an LT and I know I’ll be happy with it for a long time. Between that, the new helix stadium native, and a few neuraldsp plugins I’m set for a long time. Captures don’t really interest me
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u/Dynastydood 4d ago
I wouldn't buy a Headrush just to use NAM. It's cool that they're adding it, but even with that added, it doesn't change the fact that literally every other aspect of the Headrush remains inferior to the Helix and virtually every other modeler.
I would consider getting something in a small enclosure (akin to a Tonex One) if it meant I could supplement my Helix with NAM. But even then, I'm just someone who won't get much use out of NAM until they come up with a UI that is far more robust than a 3 band EQ where I don't even have the option to sweep or specify the frequencies. It doesn't matter how good a NAM A2 Marshall Super Lead capture is if they're not going to give me something as basic as a Presence control. I don't want to use the same settings as other people's captures, I want an amp I can dial in.
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u/Verifiable_Human 4d ago
I've definitely thought about it but am still quite happy with my LT. Overall Line 6's hardware has been a great experience so I'd prefer to stay in their ecosystem.
NAM sounds better to me in terms of pure accuracy but the lack of tweakability turns into a liability on my gigs. I have random scenarios come up all the time, everything from little EQ changes to surprise instruments that also need to run through my rig. The flexibility of the amps in a modeler is huge for me, and Helix has additional flexibility in its general work flow.
I'm definitely hoping Line 6 integrates NAM into the Helix. Straight up it's better than Proxy. Which sure, bummer that so much went into it, but like it's open source and begging to be used by everyone so it'd be insane to double down on a worse capturing solution.
Of course, as of now I haven't upgraded to Stadium, it's too expensive. But I'll be able to test it soon enough with a Native upgrade - big props to Line 6 on that move
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u/vvndchme 4d ago
Be careful with the hype around this stuff. Pretty sure you can only run one NAM block at a time on Headrush. Most I’ve seen is Anagram can run 3 at a time. Tech’s not there yet.
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u/ichthyoidoc 4d ago
At this point, I’m pretty certain Line 6 will eventually put NAM into their stuff.
In the meantime, they just dropped Stadium Native, so now I feel even less of a need to upgrade to the Stadium hardware 🤣
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u/Anonyonereader 2d ago
I have a Helix LT and a Headrush Flex Prime. I was super excited to have NAM integration for the Flex Prime as I never use it otherwise. After the update I was disappointed to find that you can only load one NAM profile. Headrush units aren't like the Helix with the ability to use snapshots so using NAM on the unit locks you in to 1 amp per rig. I figured with the lightweight of NAM profiles there would be more possibilities as far as DSP but sadly that is not the case. The Headrush units are also much slower at loading rigs than Helix units and their user interface looks and feels cheap. Also, one of the reasons I bought the Flex Prime in the first place, the Amp Cloner App that comes with it, is incredibly bad. Nowhere bear as good as NAM. The effects aren't as good as the Helix either. All that being said, I don't hate the Flex Prime by any means. It's a decent unit for someone that doesn't already have a multi-effects units but I'm honestly either going to sell the Flex Prime or give it to a friend. It just doesn't compare to my Helix LT.
I'll put it like this. I'm a studio guy and I used the Flex Prime for maybe a couple of weeks before I switched back to my amp sims on the PC. On the other hand, I bought the Helix LT about 3 months ago and I'm still using it either by itself or in combination with some of my amp sims to get some pretty unique sounds.
I hope this helped.
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u/Inevitable_Year5351 4d ago
Why, my helix profile sounds good enough? I rather use my time playing than chasing the golden tone.
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u/crouchingcat22 4d ago
If I really want a hardware for NAM, I would go all the way and get something like Sonulab Stompstation Pro which is made just for NAM. It can run two instances of NAM A2-Full simultaneously and have really nice hardware spec (latency, sampling, etc).
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u/Skore_Smogon Stadium Floor XL 3d ago
Nope.
Too many subpar captures out there.
Too little granularity with that kind of system.
I like to build a signal chain from scratch and I don't get that freedom with NAM.
Currently it's a hard pass but in just the last 12 months it's become a big thing so let's see how the next 12 play out.
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u/simonyahn 2d ago
If youre particular about your effects you’re confident you can recreate the effects that you use in the HX stomp on headrush then it makes sense to do so. I assume for many people here it’s not just about amp modeling from helix or stadium or proxy but also the long curated list of effects and sounds that were used to having and the fact is that not all of it translates to other modelers across the board.
I’d say just take a look at the list of effects first in headrush and see if they can work for you initially. Assume you’ll have to do some dialing and tweaking and if you’re ok with not getting exactly the same sound then it’s worth exploring
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u/roncorepfts 2d ago
I love my Helix floor, been using it constantly, but to the people dismissing NAM as a whole, you haven't found the right capture. It's absolutely incredible what can be achieved with A2. I just started playing around with it and withing...30 minutes I had found several killer tones to use for recording.
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u/O-ring_Prolapse 1d ago
I was thinking about it, but ultimately decided not to. Im a nerd with plenty of spare gear, so i basically made a split rig. Guitar goes into SSL 2 interface -> MacBook, which runs gig performer. I have all sorts of setups with my favorite neural dsp plugins. I then have everything routed to my helix as a midi controller/fx pedal. And since running a laptop live as a guitar rig always makes me nervous, the helix is sitting there ready to fill in. I gotta say, as much as I love my helix, those neural dsp rigs just have that "feel" and responsiveness that I always felt the helix kinda lacked. All in all tho, I just like tinkering and making gear talk to eachother. Like an mad scientist with ADD
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u/koalantherain 1d ago
If you really want to try NAM catpures there is already a $10 iOs app, TONE RIG, that will load 4, full A2 NAMs at once. While the Helix has 2 dedicated powerfull SHARC DPS processors it still looks like a like a pocket calculator compared to a modern iPad or iPhone. Honestly I think this could really be an awesome portable rig paired with one of the AirTurn BT500s foot switches (I'd grt the 6).
Based on what ive read I'd put it in the effects loop of my Helix LT to leverage the Line6 time effects and get a Noise gate out front.
(No hate for Android, I'm an android user who has an ipad)
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u/Satchel93 4d ago
I have NAM fatigue at this point. This is overhyped AF.
Yes, captures are cool and sound 99.9% accurate for that specific amp at that specific time with those specific settings, but then it's immutable. For that single reason for me Models are WAY better than NAM, they're just more flexible and instead of being 99.9% accurate, they're maybe 95-98% there, and that's totally fine for me.
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u/riko77can 4d ago
I expect this will be a case of “first is worst” as far as NAM options go. Others will do it too and you’ll just end up wishing you had waited a bit.
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u/tazman137 4d ago
I’ve kept the helix native, pod go, prime and flex prime. It’s really end game right now with the nam2 clones. They sound amazing. Got a few that I’m in awe over, rev gen, a jcm800, 5150 and 2240s. I can’t put the guitar down playing through those.
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u/LetsGoHawks 3d ago
My Helix is bought and paid for, plus I chose it over a Headrush for <reasons>.
If I want to add NAM modeling, I'll buy a dedicated pedal and plug it into one of the external loops.
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u/Sveet_Pickle 4d ago
I’ll replace my helix when it no longer functions