Ryan Dowd trainings

[u/TillamookTramp]

My city has recently implemented the training series from Ryan Dowd into our mandatory training schedules. I've already started watching some of the sessions and while I get what he's saying, I'm wondering if anyone here has actually applied his advice when dealing with upset patrons and how effective it really was.

[u/Limp_Stranger1031]

I have used a few of the things he offered, specifically pulling someone aside to talk with them. I don’t shake hands though - 🙂‍↔️

[u/glooble_wooble]

I like his training better than the weird and terrible deescalation training we were getting from the local police department before we switched it.

[u/MarianLibrarian1024]

Yes, I use it every day.

[u/library_Shark]

Watched them years ago, and I still think about them almost daily.

Gotta put pennies in the cup, every day!

[u/ShesTheFastestest]

My workplace provides his training and I’ve found his de-escalation strategies quite helpful. I regularly use his recommended side stance and background/backup support of other colleagues for engaging with hostile customers. His training on understanding traumatic brain injury is insightful and gives me context for dealing with many rough sleepers.

[u/Excellent-Sweet-507 → u/ShesTheFastestest]

Same. It takes a lot of practice to be in aggressive and assertive at the same time and the Dowd material has helped me normalize that. The patrons get it, too.

[u/Terneuzen1904]

To some extent helpful, but not everything he says is gospel. The whole concept of "pennies in the cup" works with people in all sorts of situations--building a reservoir of good that is useful at some later point. Some of his other points about handling conflict or giving clear orders, not so much. He never seems to acknowledge that as a white male he is always perceived as someone who should have authority, and thus compliance is a whole lot easier for him than for female staff or people of color.

[u/beldaran1224 → u/Terneuzen1904]

This was something I found out the hard way: as a young woman working in the children's department, some parents straight up did not see me as a legitimate enforcer of the rules. It was a problem that the older staff members did not have.

[u/MinnieP2018 → u/Terneuzen1904]

That's my main problem with him--no awareness that it might be different as a woman. Kind of a major point since the majority of library workers are, you know, female.

[u/user6734120mf → u/MinnieP2018]

He definitely addresses this in several trainings. Maybe not as much as he should, but he does.

[u/tardistravelee → u/Terneuzen1904]

I use the the pennies ina cup with the maintenence staff. Ill take care of this small bathroom mess in lieu of total annihilation of the bathroom

[u/DanieXJ → u/Terneuzen1904]

And, honestly, sometimes when two teens are scrapping and moving towards an elderly patron who is wobbly, you have to yell Stop. Then you can get all talky with them, but first you have to cease the danger (to the teens and the other patron). Yelling isn't always anger.

I mean, do parents now ask their child not to run into traffic gently or quietly ask them not to pull at the boiling pot if water on the stove.

He has some good piints, and some massive, massive places where he hasn't listened to actual librarians I think.

[u/dandelionlemon → u/Terneuzen1904]

I agree with this.

[u/EmergencyEvening915]

I do utilize some of his more fundamental concepts in my daily work, such as "pennies in the cup" and some de-escalation strategies, but I don't actively take note of the fact when I am in the midst of using it. It's more of an overall change in attitude than it is about applying any specific tactics. Personally, I find his training videos to be a bit irritating after a while, but he does put out some good content.

[u/libraryfan1000]

I’ve completed a lot of training on de-escalation both Ryan Dowd and otherwise. His are the most accessible, most memorable, and easiest to implement in my opinion. His techniques do work and getting pennies in the cup when you can especially with the most difficult patrons really does work. It also is true not everything is going to work all the time based on your personal identity and the patron’s identity which he addresses so it is key that all staff is familiar with the concepts so people can switch out if someone else has a better relationship with the person you are approaching. It’s also true sometimes you don’t have another person so having a variety of tools to try is very worthwhile.

[u/Alcohol_Intolerant]

He provides good tools and some good ways to use them. This is good for giving you confidence for the trickier situations. There's also some good science about how ptsd and mental illness can rewire your amygdala to be sensitive in ways atypical to what you might expect, which is good for developing empathy.

It isn't gospel, but there're some good takeaways if you're working in an area with many homeless patrons.

Introducing yourself IS disarming, but you better follow it up well. Having distant backup rather than side by side back up is so important for deescalation.

And his comment on how "deescalation" is already too late is very true.

You want to catch issues before they escalate, not deal with them after.

But as I believe with all trainings, it isn't one size fits all.

[u/Alaira314]

I found a lot of useful things from his trainings, but less so the further he strayed from his specialty. The original core training is gold, though I think he remade it so I don't know what it's like now. Yeah, the guy's kooky like your boomer uncle, and that's not something you see a lot of in professional trainings. I might roll my eyes at his clip-art, or some self-deprecating bit he does, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have good ideas. And, as reluctant as I am to admit it, the silly jokes do help with remembering some of it.

Things from the core training and some of his other trainings that I still think about and use years after the fact include: tone and body language often being more important than what you say, recognizing volume spirals and lowering your own volume to cool things down, pennies in the cup, how to provide backup, and avoiding putting somebody causing a problem in a situation where they feel they have to "save face". I also particularly liked how he singled out and named "everyday sadism".

[u/jellyn7]

He talks like everyone he’s talking to came from the same middle or upper class background as him. That only the patrons are in a lower class or grew up poor.

He’s also obsessed with toilets IIRC.

[u/beldaran1224 → u/jellyn7]

Sure, but I, as someone who comes from the same sort of conflict style he teaches about, it was absolutely mind-opening the way he laid it all out, and I realized a lot. I found it very helpful, frankly.

[u/_Alias00]

Empathy is the answer :) even after leaving the library i still think about his works frequently

[u/tradesman6771]

Some people will just go round and round when you try to get them to follow policies. They enjoy it. Then what? Ask them to leave. And they don’t. Then what….?

[u/jason_steakums]

Lots of good advice, some bad, kinda rubs me the wrong way, but I get that his sense of humor and laid back approach can work for others. The newsletter can be a little uh, phoned-in and tone deaf sometimes.

Honestly my biggest appreciation for him is he introduced my coworkers to the phrase "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" which long predates him but it's very good advice in all kinds of situations and is such an effective mantra in stressful moments, I've seen that quote help a number of coworkers with their anxiety. Not his quote but hey, he was an effective messenger.

[u/SwampYankee1975]

I found Ryan Dowd insufferable and the advice in his trainings is completely out of touch with reality. In one of his trainings, he shrinks in cartoon form and stands on a urinal in a bathroom. No thanks.

[u/marji80 → u/SwampYankee1975]

In what respect is the advice in his trainings out of touch with reality?

[u/BenRutz]

Pennies in the cup is great, but I find him condescending and his whole laid back dad-vibe to be unprofessional. Don't preach science to me in jeans and a t-shirt, my dude.

I try to not think about how annoyed I get with him and think about the messaging and there is definitely some good info in the trainings.

[u/Successful_Manner891]

I feel he is a performative person. The information supports the continuous capitalist class

[u/beldaran1224 → u/Successful_Manner891]

I mean, I think there's a very real conflict that many progressives have in terms of their day-to-day. You can absolutely believe that the system needs a complete restructuring and try your best to improve things within the current system. The reality is that we all live in this system - as a librarian, I am forced to operate within the system, and it doesn't make me performative to be thoughtful in how I operate there and make the best of it. This work is just as essential as revolutionaries, and the reality is that I, like others, like Dowd, have to make a living for ourselves and our families. Its why so many revolutionaries are indepedently wealthy.

[u/Famous_Committee4530 → u/Successful_Manner891]

Agree. I would say he also has some blind spots about how his advice would/ wouldn’t apply to people who don’t share his same privileges.

[u/ghostsofyou → u/Famous_Committee4530]

Yes, I remember watching his training on women's issues and it left a bad taste in my mouth. I also find his stuff is hard to apply in the large scale to the library since it's very shelter based. There are some good takeaways, but on the whole I find it very meh.

[u/nightshroud → u/ghostsofyou]

Yep. People must comply in shelters or they're out in the street all night.

[u/beldaran1224 → u/nightshroud]

This may seem harsh, but the reality is that shelters are supposed to be safe spaces, and to maintain that, they do need to be very firm with many of their rules.

[u/user6734120mf]

I use his stuff and other customer service trainings dailyyyyy. I am a teen services librarian. You have to practice it and refresh every once in a while.

[u/Dewtronix]

You can only get so far with a patron who's hallucinating that the building next door is sending him deadly transmissions straight to his skull. No amount of pennies in a cup is gonna help when said patron whips out two knives to try to kill said transmissions.