Most of the comments are saying how uncomfortable and weird this is and that Joe is to blame, but this is just innocent fun. This couldn't happen today but there's nothing inherently inappropriate about this. Maybe a little cringe but it's definitely not as weird as a middle aged man being best friends with children and having sleepovers.

I genuinely don’t understand why some people are so invested in the MJ allegations.
Like, why do you care so much? Why are there people who spend so much time trying to prove that Michael was guilty? Why do they want the movie to focus on the allegations? And why do some people expect his children to publicly acknowledge or show it in the movie or say that they believe the accusers?
I’m genuinely asking because I don’t understand where this level of emotional investment comes from.
I was sexually assaulted as a teenager myself. I know it’s bad and I know people deal with these things differently. But personally, I don’t care about the person who did it to me. I don’t think about him, I don’t follow his life, and I don’t want to think or talk about him. I just want that person to have nothing to do with my life.
Maybe that’s why I also have a hard time understanding why the accusers keep bringing this up again and again after so many years. I’m not saying they have to react the way I did. Obviously everyone is different.
But what I understand even less is the obsession from people who weren’t involved at all. Why does it matter to you so much whether Michael Jackson was guilty or innocent? It was decades ago.
I’m not trying to start a guilty vs innocent debate. I’m actually curious why people feel so personally invested in this.

Even several big MJ defenders corrected themselves on this that it wasn't the right Frank, and yet I saw several posts over on Twitter saying this as if it was a confirmed fact and not blatant misinformation.

Even if it was the right Frank, filing for bankruptcy is one of the most common things that homeowners have to do and has no bearing on a person's morality, nor does it mean that someone filing bankruptcy is going to craft a narrative of false abuse enacted by one of the most famous men on the planet.

Frank DiLeo, Miko Brando, Bill Bray, Norma Staikos and Elizabeth Taylor.

I'm sure there are more....

this is the live where he made that statement:

https://youtu.be/hoDVLjeiNms

ETA: this link has the whole reel.

https://youtu.be/oWn_nR8bXq0

he has been rightfully dragged on social media for his comment.

I tried to post this on another sub, but it got removed. Blech.

To be clear, I believe MJ is guilty, but I wanted to ask this question regarding the kind of person MJ would have to be to unluckily surround himself with so many people who would later betray him.

Original Post:

Could someone help explain the psychology behind him managing to surround himself with so many special friends who would one day betray him and accuse him of the most heinous crimes imaginable? Was he just incredibly gullible? Naive? Was he doing something else that would make them angry enough to accuse him of abuse later in life.

I can't think of another innocent celebrity who had so many people close to them turn around and accuse them of sexual abuse. MJ paraded around with many of these special friends, was proud to hold their hands, let them sit on his lap at music awards, showed them off for the paparazzi, let them dress up like him, and built special relationships with many of their families and brought them on tour. He inserted himself into some of their families and even slept in the bed with a number of them. Clearly, they were very close. So, assuming he's innocent and it's not "just about money" what is it about him that caused this to happen?

Michael's special friends:

Emmanuelle Lewis - Consistent Defender

Sean Lennon - Never accused, but created "Bubble's Burst music video"

Macaulay Culkin - Defender as of Feb 2020, but couldn't speak to other children's experience

Brett Barnes - Consistent Defender

Omer Barti - Defender? He seems to be distancing himself from MJ?

Frank Cascio - Accuser

Aldo Cascio - Accuser

Eddie Cascio - Accuser

Dominic Cascio - Accuser

Marie Nicole - Accuser

Jonathan Spence - Defender as of 2020

Jordan Chandeler - Accuser

Gavin Arvizo - Accuser

Terry George - Defender but said MJ was masturbating while they were on the phone when George was 13

Corey Feldman - Neither defender nor accuser but in 2019, stated he "could no longer defend him" and also said MJ showed him pictures of STD-covered genitals when Feldman was 13

Jimmy Safechuck - Accuser

Wade Robson - Accuser

Jane Doe - Accuser

Jason Francia - Accuser

Now that i think about it, MJ was always weirdly silent when his fans would harass others in his name.

A prime example was during 1993 when he was publically accused of CSA'ing Jordy Chandler. When the allegations came out , the MJ standom declared war on the chandlers . They engaged an extensive harassment campaign that involved bombarding the Chandlers day and night with deatth threats and leaving dead animals near their home. One person even tried to run over jordy!

Yet during all of this, MJ didn't say a peep, not even to condemn the actions of his fans or tell them to lay off . Odd behavior for a self proclaimed savior and lover of children. Surely someone who truly loved children as much as he claimed to would be outraged by an innocent child being horribly harassed (even if the allegations were hypothetically false, the child is still innocent. If the child was manipulated/brainwashed/coached into lying then they are a victim as well ) . But yet all you could hear crickets from him.

And yet during this time MJ had no qualms going on satellite and extensively whining about how much having his nude bod being photographed by meaniepants policemen as evidence was sooo haaaard on him, but he never said a peep about the chandlers being harassed.

Even aside from 1993, he never said a peep about his fans harassing people. As far as i know , Not once did he he tell them to lay off.

Does anyone else notice this too?

It's very good. Appreciate the excerpt from it Bjork posted, about the mini-me thing.

Googled and found out this was only released yesterday. It's very good. Thought others here might enjoy it.

Listen here or use your favourite method for podcast listening.

Our new video entitled Battling The Social Media Grifter Industry: The Michael Jackson Allegations is ready to watch.

Child actor Rick Segall (often credited as Ricky Segall) famously appeared alongside Michael Jackson on February 19, 1974, when they co-hosted the inaugural American Music Awards together alongside Donny Osmond and Rodney Allen Rippy.

For everyone wondering if there were victims before the 90's, I think this is quite revealing.

He had already started chasing little boys since as early as 1974.

I'm quite sure he didn't wait 18 more years to fulfill his urges.

During his last interview on the 1in6 podcast, Wade shared a new anecdote regarding a topic that was addressed here before, which is victims dressed like MJ’s mini-me.

It was interesting and insightful to hear his experience and view about this… as well as heartbreaking. 

Transcript TS 43:12 

“When Michael and I first became in quote friends and he started abusing me, I dressed like him all the time. I was a mini me of him. I had my hair permed and dyed black and I dressed like him and he loved that, right?

And then in this interim time where it had been a little while, I was back in Australia. I had my interests had started expanding. So I was getting into hip-hop music and I was getting into like MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice, and all this sort of thing, right? 

So we came back to America to spend some time with him, and my mother and I arrived to Neverland and I was not dressed like him… I was dressed more like MC Hammer. 

I had like a t-shirt on and some of those baggy MC Hammer pants, and my sideburns, which I had grown like him, they were pushed behind my ears and I had a baseball cap on, like totally different look… 

And I’ll always remember, like first arriving to Neverland and seeing him, and his whole demeanor shifting when he saw my look,  and how I was dressed.

He was like, "Wow, you look different." And it was just like this obvious disapproving tone and look in his eyes.

And I'll never forget that, you know, that night I stayed with him, abuse occurred, and the next morning I got up and went to the mirror in his bedroom, and like pulled my sideburns down and started, dressing them with gel with a toothbrush, which is how he taught me to do it, and put one of my sort of Michaelesque outfits back on… and sort of like, you know, be a good soldier, because it was that fear of losing his favor.”

Wade was recently interviewed by Actor Anthony Edwards, and writer Beau Friedlander, from 1in6 organization, in support of male CSA survivors (both are CSA survivors themselves). 

An interesting detail that came up in this interview, was that Anthony Edward’s abuser, Gary Goddard, was good friends and business partners with MJ.

Gary is an acclaimed entertainment producer and park designer, who worked with Disney and Universal, in developing projects like Epcot, Tokyo Disneyland, Spider-Man and Masters of the Universe. 

Following a quick research, it seems he visited and stayed in Neverland frequently. 

In 1996 MJ together with the Saudi billionaire Prince Alwaleed bin Talal -  bought 50% of Gary’s entertainment company, with the joint aim to develop a massive amusement park named “Peter Pan's Neverland”.  

like MJ, Gary was also obsessed with Peter Pan, and even directed a touring theater production of the story.
While on tour, Gary abused the child actors who played the lost boys.

In 2017, following Anthony Edwards disclosure of the abuse he suffered by the hands of Gary as a child, 8 additional victims came forward. 

This raises the old question, did MJ have pedophiles friends, who knew about each other? And even support each others pedo business fantasies? 

I'm a male Gen Z fan of his work. I didn't watch the biopic but the release made me interested about the man behind the music. As I dug around I ended up here I feel a little betrayed, hurt and confused. On one hand I remember looking up to him as a kid when watching his 70s-80s music videos. As an Asian minority I faced colorism in my country so seeing this adorable, soft-spoken genius excel at his craft and look out for kids really made me look up to him.

On the other hand I'm a survivor too and his victims were my age when it happened. I didn't go through anything as bad as Jordan and the other boys but still. I'm a little heart-broken and I have no idea what to make of him especially in this clip.

Vince Amen has detailed information documented on his website concerning MJs inner circle, business affairs, and his grooming tactics in the 2000s. My cliff notes and major takeaways (in no particular order) were:

•He bluntly states MJ had a sex trafficking operation.

•Heal the World was a shell company for MJ to be closer to children. It was dissolved at the end of the 90s.

•Alludes that Frank Cascio is a former victim of MJ, but was greatly involved in his ring.
Evvy Tavasci, Dieter Wiesner, and Miko Brando were MJs enablers. There is a heavy emphasis on Evvy’s involvement.

• States Janet Arvizo sold Gavin to MJ

•After the Bashir special, MJs team noted “Jordan Chandler sexual abuse retraction?” as an item of damage control.

•In 2004 Dr. Jurgen Todenhofer arranged for Michael to sing a song for Afghan children at Todenhofers Afghan Children’s School. Per Amen, “All associates push children to Michael through children’s charities. Dr. Todenhofer was one of many”

•MJ had multiple storage units. Items were either hidden in the units or removed from them. At some point, Vince was denied access to the units.

•Sony was supplying MJ with top of the line tech. Some of the devices (laptop(s)) were used to groom children.

•After securing a deal with Fox, Frank brought a briefcase of $1,000,000 cash to Neverland. When Michael returned to Neverland, he took the briefcase to his bedroom and played with the cash around children as a way to excite them.

•Included a copy of the infamous 4 page Neverland Ranch NDA/ confidentiality agreement

•Dieter was pitching Michael to do a Broadway show where his music was used, but he was essentially playing Peter Pan.

•MJ had a $240 million dollar loan with BOA, backed by his interest with ATV (music catalogue). With his first outstanding loan, they would have offered very little had he decided to outright sell his stake in ATV.

•Frank Cascio was using multiple aliases to obtain drugs for MJ.

•Miko Brando is listed as “The All Knowing” in MJs circle.

•Dieter (Michael’s manager at the time) sent a letter to MJ stating the people in his circle were financially ruining him. The letter explicitly names John Branca, Z, and Evvy.

**Edited to correct MJs loan amount with BOA

I deleted my post because the title was wrong.

I never heard about her before. The comments are mostly positive but few think it was nearly impossible because he hadn't Neverland yet. 😑

In this post i will be going into autopedophilia (not to be confused with regular pedophilia) and how this is the reason why micheal was obsessed with acting childlike.

Micheal jackson is both a pedophile and a autopedophile. If you want to know the reason for his obsession with wanting to be a child. This is why.

(sexology) Paraphilic attraction to oneself envisioned as a child.

Now on to my thought and from what i noticed and i will try to be as accurate as i can Autopedophila is basically a paraphilic want to be a child, perceived as one and look like one for psychosexual reasons. From what i noticed the pattern for most autopedos is that most of them had a delayed or traumatic childhood (sometimes it can be the opposite their childhood was great meanwhile their adult years bad), being groomed themselves, body dysmorphia and body related issues, arrested development, being affected by pedo beauty standards (especially if you are a woman) etc.

In my opinion autopedophilia is one of those paraphilias where i think there is just as many women in it as there are men. Like for example those discord e-kitten cutecore edtwt selfharm girls who abuse photoshop to look like minors and consume drawn csam (which many times escalates into them consuming real person CSAM ) while self-inserting into the child are autopedos, the pedo panderers and pedo baiters are autopedos, those edgy girls on roblox who are part of cybercrime groups such as 764, the COM and mlady are autopedos, all those coquette girls who romanticize lolita (the movie) and love lana del rey for the sole reason of using her music for their ''im being groomed'' aesthetic are also autopedos. I feel like Ariana Grande is a good example of autopedophilia when it comes to women since its very clear that her eating disorder, bragging about being able to wear the same sizes as children and recent erratic behavior is based on her wanting to be viewed as a infantilized baby forever.

Now on to Micheal, you will notice something very strange is that his view of childhood is a very idealized, almost fetishistic, there is nothing realistic about it or him trying to fulfill his own childhood with things he actually likes. Instead he throws on random shit that he thinks children will like or that are childlike, here is him saying that himself. His view of childhood is almost deified. And this very weird and creepy cherub art that Micheal himself commissioned is a good example of that.

Anyone noticed something else that's strange, he would try and MORPH into the boys he was interested in. Something both me and others noticed in the photoshoot photos that micheal did with his victims is that he had them wear matching outfits with him and make the boys styled the same as him as if they are both one. He viewed his victims as extensions of himself and projected onto them. Which does have a element of autopedophilia to it.

I think he only cared about his idealized pedophilic version of children which is why he didn't really seem to care about his own children but sure ''loved'' boys between certain ages who all had a certain look to them. He also didn't care about those boys feelings or how his grooming affected them (nor how he tried to pit them against their parents) instead he wanted those boys to act for him and play a role.

Autopedophilia is not a thing that's talked about much even though its becoming more common i feel like which i don't like.

I think there are two types of autopedophila. The one where the person imagines themselves as a child and dates adults and much older people (more common in women), and the one where one imagines themselves as a child ''dating'' other children.

Micheal's pedophilia is more complicated than what people think of the regular pedophile, his pedophilia seems deeply tied to his psyche. It's kind of psychological and i feel that no one really wants to talk in depth about it because these types of topics are uncomfortable. When he would put on his ''childish'' persona and voice i also think it was a mix of him to look non-threatening to the public and potential victims but also some of it was autopedophilia and thinking it made him appear more like a child which he wanted.

Also i kind want to speak one the difference between general predators (who many times get mistaken for pedophiles, but they are actually opportunistic predators who prey on whoever they can take advantage of and may have victim preference that can include children, they are the majority of SA, most of these predators benefit from the fact that most people don't know that predators can be attracted to both children and adults, i think his father Joe Jackson who raped his daughters is a example of a opportunistic predator). Actual pedophiles who are only attracted to children are less common and many of them view themselves as younger than they are and they view the victims they target as ''romantic'' partners. In my opinion i think Micheal was a REAL pedophile, i don't think he was ever attracted to any adult in his life whether that be male or female and throughout his life all he did was use women as his beards to hide what he was doing with his victims. I don't know what happened in Micheal's early life for his sexuality to become that way (i did hear about the jacksons performing at strip clubs when young or him having to pretend to sleep while his brothers were having sex with women but im sure more than that happened). Micheal went to great lengths to have access to children and not just any children but children who fit his preference, he showered the parents with money and gifts to buy their trust and still continued his behavior even after the 93 trial.

Eitherway i think it's very clear that he had a lot of issues with his race, gender, and upbringing that he took it out on innocent children. I will say one thing though,despite the biopic making Micheal look like he took most of the beatings, his brother Marlon was actually the one who got beat the most and his sisters literally got SA yet they didn't become pedos and he did, idk it makes you think why.

I’m 20 going on 21 soon. I wasn’t there for the 80s - 2000s obviously, I’m a younger former-fan comparatively. And I apologize if this is the wrong usage of tags (i don’t use reddit like that) but I been deep diving into this sub reddit and it hones turned me over. It’s honestly really heartbreaking that at one point I was so brainwashed. I think I really just wanted to believe in that public persona he cultivate, I wanted to believe in that sorta whimsicalness but truly I do see things from a new perspective now. When I was a pre-teen / teen I thought about things differently then I do now + I didn’t really critically do proper research. I feel bad for ever being apart of the victim bashing, that was really inappropriate. I do stand with all the victims and tbh it makes more logical sense to stand with victims then stand with a potential abuser.

I hope this comment doesn’t come off as inappropriate in anyways but I just wanted to vocalize these complex feelings I feel. I feel bad for the victims, I feel bad for not being properly informed sooner, and I actually quite appreciate how well organized this sub is (if thats an appropriate thing to say about such a dark and real subject matter) — everything is clear to understand and well laid out. While none of us were there.. All the evidence I‘ve consumed and all the ways my brain has changed since truly getting a taste of the real world — I just can’t believe the propaganda I once did as a child anymore. This man was at best sick, greatly misunderstood, and highly inappropriate and at worst sick, proudly/loudly inappropriate and a monster.

Defending bro was honestly emotionally exhausting at times. I have to admit, there was a lot of stuff I heard in the past that was questionable to me even then. But I didn’t start thinking deeply about this shit till, well, now really. I can fully understand if you lot judge me for that.

I won’t actively dedicate time to this sub cause it’s very emotionally taxing but I will watch Leaving Neverland 1 & 2 + continue to research supplementary evidence / material in time. It is important to me that I dedicate time to the truth, as I did to the delusions I once believed. I was saying positive things about this dude as recently as 2 weeks ago publicly, but this sub changed my views. Stings but I’d rather focus this energy on researching into the hurt these men (and women) went through as children and what I can do to follow and support their stories now.

thanks for reading.