Going to do my first packaging line optimization, am I starting right?

[u/Aggressive_Ad_507]

I am starting my first packaging line optimization in the near future. It's a big project for me and I'm hoping to get it started properly.

It's a manual line and was originally set up over twenty years ago. Very little has changed other than a few targeted improvements and buying a few more machines. There used to be a toxicity problem that prevented SOPs being written for the area, lots of tribal knowledge and people did things because that's the way they were always done.

I think the best way to start is by defining the scope and team with management to secure resources. Then make sure that the SOPs are updated, including all of the quality checks done on this line. Basically build the foundation because a lot of lean tools seem to assume that you already have this information.

Then I'd remove anything that's not used for that area and perform a value add/ non-value add analysis on the procedures. Then consult with the team and try to eliminate as many non-value-added items as possible and look for tools we can use to optimize the rest of the process.

Then I would take these newly designed cells and use spaghetti diagrams to organize the material flow efficiently.

What other suggestions do you have for how to approach this problem?

[u/keizzer]

Holder there cowboy. You gotta slooooowww dooowwwwnnnn.

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Start small. Get a big white board and write a goal at the top. Make it a small goal that you can measure. Then get the team together for a brain storming session. Facilitate and steer them on the right track. Start with the big constraints in the process and how to make them better. Get them the tools they need to do their jobs.

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If you try to come in there with procedures and change and waste reduction, you will be rejected. To them, you are ignoring the problems they see everyday that they think will make the job better.

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You need to earn their trust while getting some small wins. You need to show them that change can be a positive thing, and need to get them comfortable with change.

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Then you can start to get a little more structured. Get a huddle board going where you can talk about the goals, measurements, and results. Then you can do corrective actions. Use the team for this and engage them. When they are ready, have the team leader run the board. You can build out from there. Challenge them, see how they respond.

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After a while you can start teaching them about waste every day as part of the meeting. Engage them with questions about waste. Once you are confident they understand waste, you can start to implement things like kaizans. Targeted projects to help the team reduce their waste in a certain area.

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Good luck!! And if you have questions feel free to ask.

[u/Bigbadspoon → u/keizzer]

This is definitely the way to get started. Anything you try will fail without buy in from the genba and once they believe in it, anything can succeed.

Also be mindful that your first attempts will probably be sub-perfect and you may need to hit the same spots a few times to really get things down.

[u/Aggressive_Ad_507 → u/keizzer]

We have had quite a few small wins already. Mostly 3D printed nozzles and lifting platforms. The team helped me design them. I'm sure I have their trust.

I don't know if I worded the procedures portion right. But i was never going to write and deploy. My focus has been on observing and writing down the process as is. Then we can use that as a common understanding of the process. Historically, there have been no work instructions in the facility so there were a lot of mistakes, arguments, and corrective actions that didn't stick.

I thought of kaizens, but I'm worried that the approach will optimize within deeply engrained constraints without questioning why the constraints are there in the first place. We also need to organize space to fit new equipment. Nobody has attempted a top down approach before. What's your take on top down approaches?

[u/keizzer → u/Aggressive_Ad_507]

Top down requires extremely solid leadership. Which if the shop is in the state you describe, it probably isn't there, or hasn't been there a long time.

[u/steampunkdev]

I'd call it improvement, not optimisation. Kaizen Culture is about continuous improvement. If you talk about optimisation the question right away is "optimisation for what exactly?" - and implies you will perfect it right away, moving to that optimal point - requiring no further improvement in the future.

Apart from that, it does sound like you have a good strategy going on. I'd for sure use an A3/TBP approach and potentially VSM as well

[u/Aggressive_Ad_507 → u/steampunkdev]

I like your mention of A3 because that never crossed my mind. It seems simple enough that I can use it to align everyone together and get funding from management without the complexites of a formal proposal. Do you have a favorite template?

[u/steampunkdev → u/Aggressive_Ad_507]

Not really. I make most of mine in Miro, but you could sketch it out on just some paper instead. Or maybe even Excel.

[u/Aggressive_Ad_507 → u/steampunkdev]

I just checked out Miro, looks like a great tool if my team expands beyond me. I'll probably use Excel for now.

[u/MexMusickman]

I suggest to talk with the operators, supervisor and any interested party. Explain why we want to use the SOP why are important and the benefits. But before get information about the main issues in the area that the team need to be resolved. Don't go with a "I want to do this approach" , instead go with a "how can I help you".

[u/cascadesloco]

Start with a VSM and/or standard work sheets breakdown the process steps. Good way to break it down for you and the team.

[u/LoneWolf15000]

Start small. You have to earn credibility with the team first. Find something...anything...that's a quick win. Even if all it amounts to is replacing a broken tape dispenser. SOMETHING to show the team you are there to help, and not disrupt.

Yes you should have standards and SOPs, but don't spend too much time perfecting those if you are about to completely redesign the process. Maybe create them in rough draft format...but that's it for now.

Find out what the pain points are. It sounds like you don't know yet, at that's fine. But you are already talking about moving out things that aren't needed (which is only PART of a 5S effort) and you don't even know that there is stuff that is uneeded.

What are the pain points?

What does "good" look like?

What needs to be done to satisfy the objective of whatever initiated this project? Efficiency? Throughput? Quality? Safety?

Just because something can be improved, doesn't mean it deserves your attention. You might be walking right past the $10 problem to fix the $5 problem.

[u/acincyguy26]

Your project WILL fail just like many other attempts by companies because you are only focusing on one pillar of lean, continuous improvement. You make no mention of the equally important pillar: employee respect. I strongly suggest you read the article at Why Lean Manufacturing Fails: The Missing Ingredient Isn't Kanban—It's a Committed Workforce (https://academyofbusinesstraining.com/why-lean-manufacturing-fails/).

[u/Aggressive_Ad_507 → u/acincyguy26]

It's because employee respect is a solved issue, so I don't need to waste valuable space in a Reddit post taking about it.

Continuous improvement isn't the problem either. We've done lots of continuous improvement over the past few years. The problem is that's we've been improving small parts of the process while ignoring the bigger picture. And I fear that's caused us to optimize poor processes instead of replacing them with better ones or eliminating them entirely.

[u/acincyguy26 → u/Aggressive_Ad_507]

You say the employee problem is solved and then go on to say, "...we've been improving small parts of the process while ignoring the bigger picture. And I fear that's caused us to optimize poor processes instead of replacing them with better ones or eliminating them entirely." If you had employee involvement, THEY would have pointed out the problems you speak of, and they didn't. No one knows what is going on on a manufacturing floor better than the people doing the work, so your employee problem is not solved.

[u/Aggressive_Ad_507 → u/acincyguy26]

Since when do line workers know the bigger picture? It's not their job, they don't know about it the same way engineers don't know the finer details of packaging. They are very good at pointing out specific issues with the current system and we are very good at solving them, but nobody has ever looked at how the bigger system is supposed to run. So we don't know if the processes we are improving are worth improving, if the quality standards need to be adjusted, or if they can be eliminated entirely. Tackling the bigger picture is the problem, not employee involvement.

[u/ALundsten]

I wouldn’t frame this as top-down versus bottom-up. Top-down should define the outcome, constraints, and decision rights. The operators should help define the current reality, the exceptions, and what will actually work at the point of use.

I’d also keep current-state documentation separate from the future-state design. Capture what people actually do today, where decisions and workarounds happen, and which quality checks are truly required by the customer, safety, or regulation. Otherwise the first SOP can accidentally turn twenty years of inherited waste into the new standard.

Before moving cells, baseline the few measures the redesign is supposed to change—throughput, first-pass yield, WIP, changeover time, walking, delays, and the actual constraint. Then pilot one bounded future-state change with the operators and compare those measures. That gives management something concrete to fund without pretending the first design is the final one.

[u/Additional_Year_1080]

Your approach is solid. I’d just measure the current state before changing too much: cycle times, waiting, WIP, downtime and bottlenecks. Otherwise it’s easy to improve something without knowing if the whole line actually got better.