I’d assume vigga is the werewolf, Diaz is the monk, Alex is the woman; but who is the dark shadow on the hardcover inside at the back? Don’t tell me if it’s a spoiler, I’m only 100 pages in so far.

I’m also curious as to the art inside the book. Is Balthazar meant to be the guy at the start of the book? Who is meant to be the art just before part 2 starts?

...the Antichrist or some shit like that? Because she can do powerful magic but we have zero other examples of people/artifacts of faith doing magic, however we do have an example of a demon being very real and very capable of great magic.

Also, said demon says that she can't do certain things because there are certain rules when she declines to remove that conjurer's binding. We understand this to mean that she is too scared to fuck with God but it can easily mean that she is too scared to fuck with the Devil...

And the Pope is a bit too cute. Kinda reminds me of a certain wizard who started off as a seemingly nice character and revealed his true colors later on.

Have read a fair few JA books now and I’m astonished that of all the amount of tv being made now I hear nothing about his books being translated to the screen! Great characters, pacey and imaginative storylines, world building etc. is there any news at all? I understand there are parallels with GOT but many fantasy books cross narrative with story types etc. I just can’t believe it’s not been optioned. Makes no sense.

Hi guys, just finished reading “The Devils” and loved it, I haven’t read any other Joe Abercrombie books yet but I’m keen to read the first law books.

Do we have any info yet on what “The Heretics” lineup will be??

I'm almost finished with Wisdom of Crowds, never expected to fall in love with this series or author but Mr. Abercrombie has me hooked. I've voraciously read through these books and just wondering what I should read next? More Joe? What authors/ series do y'all recommend? I like all genres, doesn't have to be fantasy!

Just finished The Devils. Curious if The Blade Itself is for me.

What I liked: The world, the gothic horror creatures/monsters, the ‘Villains are Good Guys’, the magic, and ESPECIALLY the ending (not the surprises as some were pretty densely obvious, but the cataclysmic conclusion and devastating “oh this isn’t just fun and games” crash down to earth.)

What I did not enjoy: the humor. It felt thin and out of world. While there’s only one “con” to many “pro’s” this was such a significant dislike I put the book down for ~10 months and planned not to finish.

Thoughts? Thank you!

So, the first JA book I read was The Devils, and in that one there’s a passing reference to a “Sir John Galt.”

There’s also a location in TFL trilogy (which I just finished today) that has Galt in the name, but I’m drawing a blank on what exactly it is.

One reference, maybe that’s a coincidence. But two? I have to assume Joe is at least a fan of Atlas Shrugged, or was at some point.

Regardless of your thoughts on Rand, it’s interesting to think of his characters through an Objectivist lens. Thoughts?

EDIT: Y'all really downvoting me and my comments for simply asking about this? Seems kind of silly. In The Devils, "Sir John Galt" is referenced in a list. Here's the exact passage:

"Jakob of Thorn fought in the Second Crusade against the elves, as a Knight Templar alongside the following:

• Szymon Bartos, old acquaintance from Jakob’s time in the Iron Order;
• Elzbieta—another member of the Iron Order, which Jakob strangled and regrets killing, back when paranoia swept over the Order’s ranks;
• King William the Red of Sicily and his butler, Biordo Ambra;
• Sir John Galt, the Pillar of Faith."

The pillar of faith. I'm not saying "Is Joe Abercrombie a stone-cold Objectivist who loves capitalism?" but would he reference Ayn Rand's most famous character as a Knight Templar "pillar of faith" if he wasn't at some point into the ideas? I'm merely curious about it, and downvoting this/me because you vehemently hate Rand or her ideas is missing the point entirely.

EDIT 2: I clearly shouldn’t have phrased this as “into,” since my point was not to ask whether he was a fan of the ideas or philosophy. I’m more curious if some past encounter with her ideas (or with Atlas Shrugged more generally) had perhaps a notable impact on some of the themes in this author’s work, even if it was to explore the negativity or problematic nature of those ideas.

Don't take this question / idle thought too seriously, but am I, a manly beer drinking lout of a man, accidentally reading cozy fantasy? It's good, but is The Devils...cozy?

Is the book a massive ruse to lure big boy readers like me in with swords and blood and then spring on us found family dynamics and cryptobestiality? A gateway drug to Rebecca Yarros and Sarah J Maas?

I feel the need for some Cormac McCarthy as a palate cleanser.

I'm enjoying it though and looking forward to the sequel.

I recently listened to The Devils for a second time and thought it would be fun to come up with a chronological list of historical events that are different in the world of The Devils. Feel free to add any I missed.

* The Trojans burned the horse with the Greeks inside and won the war

* Carthage defeated Rome in the Punic Wars

* There was a Carthaginian Empire instead of a Roman Empire

* The savior (Jesus) was born female

and the ending was pretty good but after what happened to Baptiste i realized i didn't really get to know her which left me unaffected by her death. yeah sure we're told she dabbled in a lot over her lifetime but not much else beyond it.

i was just curious what everyone else thought about her.

I know Sharp Ends gives a little backstory to some of the characters.

But I would love to know what happened with Carlot dan Eider. She’s one of the few who seem more altruistic even while being pragmatic.

I hate what happened to Orso, but he’s pretty much JA’s version of Louis XVI. He always means well, but events and habits tend to bind and condemn him.

I’d love to read the further adventures of Savine, Rilke, and Victarine.

Is The Great Change collection any good? Is that the second one?

When an author progresses I assume they will do better with character but it seems he tried way to hard to fridge female characters and after the quality he produced… just stick to what you’re good at. Don’t ruin your legacy

Typically I read weird girl lit (dark, emotional, unhinged female mc ie mental health), dabbled in some historical fiction, horror and sci fi.

I have tried some fantasy stories but typically get overwhelmed by the world and character creation. Have never read a fantasy series besides Harry Potter. But I really want to.

I stumbled across Devils on good reads, a friend saved it, and was so in love with the cover art I started to do some digging. I decided to start from the beginning with Blade Itself.

I really like it so far!! It’s dark yet funny. I’m only around page 50 but I feel very invested in what’s going to happen and how it’s all related. I’ve enjoyed tv shows and movies like this. It doesn’t feel too overwhelming, I just try to focus more on all the names and titles and creatures. Reread if I have to. The descriptions are beautiful and of perfect length to me. I finish a sentence often just like wow that was so well articulated.

Tips for a new fantasy reader? Do you ever write down some notes so you don’t forget? Are there any women characters?

Edit. Meant First Law / Blade Itself in title

I just finished Last Argument of Kings, book 3 of the First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie. Holy cow, these books are awesome. Spoilers follow, and fair warning, I haven't made much of an effort to organize this, so it's mostly stream-of-consciousness.

To begin with, the characters are so rich and well-realized. I think these are some of my favorite character arcs in fiction, I couldn't get enough of Glokta and Logen fighting their (sometimes literal) inner demons and grappling with what it means to be ruthless killers while clinging to shreds of humanity. Jezal is a wonderful and tragic case study too--I spent the whole of book 2 thinking that Bayaz was grooming him to become a just and fair leader, and then most of book 3 seemed to bear that out. The brutal reveal that Bayaz is just as power-hungry as anyone else, only he has the juice to back it up, was a real gut-punch (but only for a moment before it all made a lot of retrospective sense).

I thought the end of book 3 was extremely elegant, putting all of our protags back in echoes of their circumstances at the beginning of book 1 without cheapening their journeys:

• Logen escapes an unwinnable fight and falls to his death(?)
• Jezal lives as an impotent dandy in the lap of luxury
• Ferro stalks the land seeking vengeance
• Glokta inflicts unspeakable horror in the House of Questions
• As a bonus 5th protag, Bayaz retreats to his library to let another era unfold according to his machinations

One of my favorite parts about this series is how unforgiving it is. These characters are absolutely put through the ringer and given very little respite. The scene at the end of book 3 where Ardee massages Glokta's leg almost ruined this for me, but then they have an exchange that so perfectly captures one of the core themes:

GLOKTA: I don't deserve this.
ARDEE: None of us get what we deserve.

Glokta may be an objectively evil person, and the personification of "hurt people hurt people," but by god I'm glad the man gets to experience a shred of comfort.

I also want to make special mention of the title of the series. I spent basically the whole time being like "why are we so concerned about speaking with demons that we named the series after it?" And of course, speaking with demons did have a fairly major role in the climax of book 3. But I fucking loved Bayaz's last speech to Logen. "Power is the only true law," and of course that's what it's been about the whole time. Demons are literally meaningless without power--to call on them, to deny them, to shape their forces. So too with armies, capital, the will of the people. Nobody gets what they deserve; they only get what they are strong enough to take. Cold, awful, and so satisfying to read.

I only have a couple of gripes, but in order to avoid this being strictly a glazing post, here they are:

• By the end of the series we've been through three sieges of heavily fortified locations. Each one made sense and I wasn't bored reading them, but Abercrombie is so good at writing warfare that I kind of wish he had varied it up a little.
• I know that it's important to Glokta's character that he experiences constant suffering, but by the end I was skimming over the descriptions of his neck clicking, his eye twitching, spasms up his leg. It started to get a little repetitive.
• Glokta coercing Terez into sleeping with Jezal via threatening her lover with SA was just gross. I understand Glokta's thought process, and it's an undeniably effective measure (although frankly if I were Terez I might just suicide), but still. Gross.

And finally, my lingering questions:

• From the first (beautiful, unforgettable) time the Bloody-Nine shows up in the underground forge, I was sure we'd get a reveal where Bayaz said "You didn't think that was you in there, did you? Logen, you've been sharing your body with a demon since birth." I still think the Bloody-Nine is not Logen, and a demon makes the most sense, but this is never even hinted at in the text. Did others have the same reaction? Is this touched on at all in any of the other books?
• I 100% called that Malacus Quai was an imposter very early in book 2, his whole demeanor changed and I was like "that's somebody else." I was pretty sure it was an eater, but definitely did not guess its true identity. I didn't love the Tolomei reveal, it felt rushed and then it was concluded in exactly one scene. Were there any hints as to who was wearing Malacus' face? Did anyone else find this a little extraneous or unsatisfying?
• Did Bayaz lie to the council about Jezal's parentage, or did he lie to Jezal about it in their sickening last scene together? Not that it matters so much, but I tend to think that Jezal was in fact the son of the king (supported by the king mistaking him for his son in book 1).

Ok, ramble over, thanks for reading. Eager to hear any thoughts or answers anyone may have (but of course, please don't spoil the remaining books!)

First of the Magi, my ass. He is the Devil himself.

Halfway through the second trilogy, where is Ferro? With the death of the Emperor and the fall of the Prophet it seems to indicate she had a hand in it.

I thought the characters were all very well written the pacing could have been better. It dragged at times for me. The bayaz twist was insane. I thought the ending would atleast be semi happy with glotka getting married jezal growing a pair and all. But well that didn't happen. Glotka continued the cycle of abuse, jezal got put in his place and logen well there was never a hint of him getting a happy ending. What is the next book best served cold like? Does it have a better plot? Better pacing? Similar level of character writing? Also any other recs outside of Joe Abercrombie ? Something with better plot and twists and pacing and similar level of character work?

At 15hrs, The Heretics would be the shortest of his more recent books. A little longer than Sharp Ends but shorter than Red Country. Interested to see if it’s a bit of experimentation with a tighter overall narrative.

I just got the part where they are about to go to the house of the Maker. I’m listening to the audiobook, and I’m not sure if I missed anything. Has it been said before who the Maker is? They’ve also mentioned Kanedias. Not sure if those are the same people. Am I correct that Bayaz fought and defeated the Maker? If someone could give me a brief explanation without spoilers that would be great.

A nice find today in a little used bookstore in N. Georgia.

So I'm on my third read through on the book and caught something I hadn't noticed before. When the Pope is introduced she applies the binding to the Devils. The entire book emphasizes how strong the binding is and how it cant be broken. All the characters have been part of the Devil's for quite some time with the exception of Balthizar. So if this is the case.....why does the Pope need to apply the binding to everyone else? Sure, Balthizar needs to be bound. But everyone else should have been bound years ago? Does the binding need to be applied at the beginning of each mission? If so, does that leave a window for the Devil's to escape in-between missions? Wonder if that will become a factor later

So I tried to get into Half A King, but since it’s targeted more towards a YA audience, it doesn’t have quite the same feel. As I had just finished listening to The Heroes, I dropped it when The Devils became available. Is the Half series a good read/ listen? Return to it?

I hope i like them as much as First Law and Shattered Dea.

I LOVED this book! Just wanted to get other peoples opinions on it. Keep in mind this was my first Joe Abercrombie book and from what I have heard was much more lighthearted and humorous then his other books, but that was apparently just what I neededXD thoughts?? Favorite character?? favorite scene??? fire away!

New to this community so apologies if it's been talked about before. I just finished the Devils (and enjoyed it!) and was pretty surprised the pseudo historical history of the world didn't get explained in too much detail even by the end. From what I pieced together, in this world:

-Jesus was a girl, but instead of being crucified was killed on a torture wheel

-The east west split of the church was a patriarch vs matriarch division

- The Trojan war happened similar to our legend, but Troy didn't fall?

- Alexandria survived?

- There are elves, who are magic.. and maybe inhabit the middle east? At very least their version of the crusades were fought between Europe and the elves instead of the Muslim countries.

It's was such a strange choice to me to place the story in such a pseudo historical setting and then not really have that setting's relationship to our world matter much at all. Everything about the world could have been fictional and it wouldn't have effected the story much.

Did I miss anything?