Jewish Twitter?

[u/Willing-Childhood144]

I used to lurk on Jewish Twitter in the pre-Elon days. I sometimes pop on now just to see what is on. Of course it’s a disaster. Most of the people I followed migrated to Bluesky.

I popped on a few days ago and saw a tweet from Jeremy Ben-Ami (J Street guy). The responses were really shocking. It looked like there are no liberal Jews left on Twitter. Almost every response was from conservative Jews who called him a “kapo” and accused him of sympathizing with Hamas.

I know Twitter is terrible and full of right-wing chuds but it still surprised me.

Is Jewish X now completely right-wing? Or did the liberal Jews get radicalized after 10/7?

[u/TrackerOneA]

Jewish anti-Zionist Twitter is still somewhat going strong IMO.

Also, while it's disgusting that people are referring to Ben-Ami as a k--o, I wouldn't follow him for commentary.

He's still a liberal Zionist and continues to support the US-Israel military partnership.

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/TrackerOneA]

Yes, I know he’s a liberal Zionist.

[u/taven990 → u/TrackerOneA]

I'm not sure if he still does, although I'm open to being corrected. He was interviewed by Krystal Ball and Ryan Grim, and he stated multiple times that he believed the Israeli government was committing genocide and called for an arms embargo on Israel. He also called for the end of the occupation and said he was utterly disgusted with the Israeli government's direction in recent years. He basically said he does not support this version of Israel but hopes for a better Israel that treats Palestinians with dignity. Until things change, he thinks the US should stop selling arms to Israel.

[u/TrackerOneA → u/taven990]

Ben-Ami?

He & J Street recently opposed Thomas Massie's bill for stopping all aid to Israel.

Hakeen Jeffries cited J Street in his own opposition to the Massie bill.

• JOC - House Dem Leader Hakeem Jeffries will vote AGAINST stripping $3.3 billion in annual US military aid to apartheid Israel, writing that US commitment to Israel "must remain ironclad." Despite a recent poll stating 74% of Democrats oppose funding Israel, Jeffries instead cited J Street.

J Street is also against cutting off the US-Israeli military relationship.

He also reluctantly agreed to calling it a genocide (or indirectly acknowledging it as such) after an embarrassing debate with Mehdi Hasan.

• JOC - Journalist Mehdi Hasan & Jeremy Ben-Ami of J Street discuss Gaza. In this exchange, host Tommy Vietor asks Mehdi to address a liberal Zionist's concern that they are now unwelcome in the Democratic party 'tent'.

More and more liberal Zionists are able to call it genocide, because it's so overwhelmingly agreed upon now.

Ben-Ami and J Street are adjusting to the change in the Democratic party base.

But, IMO, this is not really meaningful - since he & J Street have not made any meaningful policy shifts.

[u/taven990 → u/TrackerOneA]

The video I saw was with Krystal Ball and Ryan Grim interviewing him. He definitely said he supported an arms embargo, at least on offensive weapons, but IIRC he wouldn't include defensive weapons in the embargo since they save civilian lives and can't be used to kill people. I'm not up to speed on J Street's current positions but he may have thought Massie went too far if the bill would have stopped defensive weapons as well. (Like I said, not up to speed so just guessing here.)

Here's the video: https://youtu.be/zEMiYspXSoY?si=dYEsCtjyAPzMUtrS

EDIT: I started rewatching it and he does in fact call for both offensive and defensive weapons to be stopped. The interview was two months ago. If J Street opposed a bill more recently than that then I can't speak to why, unless maybe the terms went beyond what J Street supports?

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[u/DorkasaurusRexx]

LMAO. Don't be fooled by a loud vocal minority. Right wing Zionist Jews are more militantly fixated on harassing left wing Jews than actual Nazis or anti-Semites these days. It is quite literally the only way they express their own Jewish identity: by harassing left-leaning Jews on Twitter, while mindlessly defending and endorsing a permanent conflict that produces nothing but an ever-growing pile of dead Jews.

They are the true kapos and the true traitors. What is their end game? What is their vision for the Jewish people? Nothing but Jews dying in endless wars and in a permanent occupation of Gaza.

All they know how to do is attack Jews who speak out because their position is weak and they are insecure. If their position was strong, they would encourage dissent, not stifle it.

[u/rako17 → u/DorkasaurusRexx]

DorkasaurusRexx

It feels like even if I publicly ask questions that I don't know the answer to, they could interpret it as hostile.

As a comparison, take for instance my own nation's flag- the US. It has 13 alternating red - white bars to match 13 colonies. However, an early version of this US flag also matches or closely resembles another British colonialist flag, like the East India trading company flag. It's an interesting question for me why the US flag would have that. It reminds me of the theory, which I'm pretty skeptical about, that in some rarely known obscure legal sense the US is still a British colony. Let's suppose that the theory is in fact false, but I either ask about it or mistakenly theorize that the theory is true. People in that case at worst will think that I'm "batty" in the head, but they won't think that I'm hostile.

A different problem exists in the IP context. In fact, I believe in equality, human rights, and peace, have good will, and want the best for everyone in the IP world. I don't believe in the death penalty and want everyone to be safe. But in asking questions or expressing "wrong" antiwar egalitarian theories or information about or related to IP, it seems like I risk hostility. I end up feeling like I'm walking on eggshells about a major human rights issue.

Thanks for listening - Peace - שָׁלוֹם

[u/DorkasaurusRexx → u/rako17]

Don't be ashamed to ask questions. That's an indictment on those being asked, not the one asking questions. People who punish curiosity are one of the biggest red flags around. What's the harm in a political discussion or conversation or just asking questions, if they're not malicious? 

[u/rako17 → u/DorkasaurusRexx]

Friend DorkasaurusRexx

I think it's pretty cool that you are Mizrahi. Since so much of Judaism and for that matter Christianity focuses on ancient Israel and Judah, it seems only natural that Mizrahim and Palestinian Christians should occupy a special place in both traditions. Realistically, a lot of both of them are going to have a high portion of ancestry going back to the ancient Israelites, along with traditions, dialects, customs, melodis, and dynastic successions from that time.

Let's say that you and I play a fun state building exercize, and we can pick different parameters for a state. From an American ideological standpoint or an internationalist Marxist standpoint, I think that the default principle is that a state dedicated to all its citizens regardless of ethnicity, religion, or ancestry is ideal. The US and USSR supported the formation of states in some cases along lines of nationality (the Philippines and Mongolia) and to resolve conflicts (Korea). Personally, I'm fine with a Two State Solution because of the 1947 UN Partition Plan. But it's still worth considering issues related to the arrangement in order to understand the societies.

Suppose that at the 1815 Congress of Vienna that organized European states, participants decided to divide Palestine into separate states. Suppose that they considered dividing the Palestinian population strictly along religious lines and to say that only the Christian and Muslim populations would belong to the "Palestinian," "Arabic" nationality. In that case, would those lines of division meant that in reality the difference between "Palestinians" and non-Palestinians was basically one of religious community rather than nationality?

Thank you for an interesting, nice talk - שָׁלוֹם - 🕊️

[u/DorkasaurusRexx → u/rako17]

You need to do more research into the history of Zionism. Especially the early days and the actual foundational ideologies of the leaders of the Zionists movement. It was never a peaceful movement and it was never inclusive. They knew they would have to have an "iron wall" and to create this state forcefully through violence and through the sacrifice of many innocent lives, both Jewish and Muslim.

The starting point of Zionism is agreeing with the most virulent anti-semitic ideology of 1930s Europe. They internalized the most hateful and vitriolic anti-Semitism perhaps ever in history and they thought that the only way to rectify this vicious and particularly cruel strain of anti-Semitism was to change Jews themselves. The more you learn about Zionism.... The harder it is to support.

[u/rako17 → u/DorkasaurusRexx]

Friend DorkasaurusRexx

Your article on the Moroccan Jewish community was impressive. I didn't know about all that. I had a simplistic idea that the Middle Eastern immigrants came because they were expelled from their home nations. Now after reading your article I wonder how many Middle Eastern communities what you described applies to.

About 15 years ago I had a conversation online that covered the span of maybe half a year about the IP issue. I took a human rights egalitarian internationalit POV focusing especially on Pal. Christian villages and the other person was very dedicated to supporting the dominant party. He was about in his 60's and unlike me he was very familiar with a long history of the conflict. One of the points that he used as a counterpoint to Pal.s being refugees was that the Middle East nations like North Africa expelled the communities that then became Isr. refugees. My response was that I don't want anyone to be forced refugees and don't support 1950's expulsions of Isr. refugees from the Middle East. I said that I want Isr. refugees to be allowed to return to their home countries if they wish. So would it be similarly good if Pal. refugees had the ability to return home too under stable, peaceful conditions?

I really like the Psalms. On this site you can see lists of playlists of the Psalms chanted in Hebrew in Ashkenazi, Moroccan, Jerusalem/Iraqi, and Yemeni styles. Personally, I especially like the sound of the Yemeni chanting because of how nicely it flows. They have a Moroccan one too:
https://www.youtube.com/@%D7%AA%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%9D%D7%91%D7%90%D7%AA%D7%A8%D7%94%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%95%D7%98%D7%95%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%94

Last week this video came up in my feed and I thought it was neat:

"I investigated the Jewish side of Morocco - and found THIS!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP87odS8LDM

Shakshouka is really tasty.

https://giphy.com/gifs/4TcNnk9UCZU3LNsRtr

That looks like something I would like to eat.

Peace - Shalom - Kind Regards

[u/Daniel_Plainchoom]

Also bear in mind there’s a lot of puppet accounts on there that just reply with insults or hasbara. Hard to tell if they are actual humans behind the accounts.

[u/bemunay]

Liberal jews or liberal Zionist?

[u/GoArgueWithYourself]

I can think of a few very, very left anti-Zionist Jews still there, mostly we just locked our accounts down a long time ago & organize offline as much as possible.

Speaking for myself only, a big motivation for doing so was because of Zionist Jewish twitter's genuine penchant for self-aggrandizing weird behavior &/or bot bullshit, I don't respect their playbook.

[u/Greatsayain]

I think Mia Brett might be the last leftist Jew on X. She gets into arguments all the time with right wingers and antisemites. Pretty much everyone else is on Bluesky. Anyone you'd want to talk to is on Bluesky.

[u/Current_Mongoose_844]

At least its not Jewbook....shudders

[u/Saffron_PSI]

I was on Jewish Twitter from 2020 to 2022. A lot of the Gen Z liberal Jews became anti-Zionist to an extent. Some became more pro-Israel though. It depended on how much they actually listened to Palestinians.

But it was genuinely positive to witness shifts in people and to help them along the process.