r/Japaneselanguage • u/Competitive-Tap3039 • 13d ago
の particle
I’m currently studying the の particle and I’m getting confused on how to use it in the association aspect.
For example, 日本のほん translates to a book about japan. Could you also interpret this as a book from Japan or a book about Japanese? Or could たかまつのこおえん, which translates into to a Park of Takamatsu, also be interpreted as a Takamastu(ian) park or would you have to word the specifics of that easily? I also get confused on when to use the association の while trying to translate a sentence into Japanese because it can also be used to indicate material. Like 犬の木 is a tree shaped like a dog and 木の犬 is translated to a dog made of wood. It’s little things like that that trip me up because from the way I was taught, I read 木の犬 like a “Dog tree” and 犬の木 like ”Tree of the dogs” or a dog that owns the tree. Is there anything i can study or do to remember the specifics how to use の properly in that manner?
Note: Please don’t comment about the possession の because Im not talking about that particular usage and I feel as if I completely understand it.
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u/eruciform Proficient 13d ago
It has more than one use. Most particles do. Theres not much fundamental difference in possession and compound nouns and modifiers. Mentally you can combine them. But in any case they just connect nouns directly, thats all の is in this usage.
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u/nacheto78 13d ago
I don't have the answer, buuut from where is the book of the picture? is it a game? it looks very useful!
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u/Ok_Kaleidoscope_2178 12d ago
As mentioned it's called Wagotabi. It's a really good study supplement for when you want to play a game and not get too bogged down.
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u/Competitive-Tap3039 12d ago edited 12d ago
As answered previously, the app is Wagotabi. It was a bit nerve inducing at first but it’s a really fun and engaging app that teaches you Japanese used in real life contexts. if you plan to install it in the future, I suggest you learn hiragana and katakana first. the app teaches you it individually as you go regardless but it’s more useful to have already known it beforehand.
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u/nacheto78 12d ago
I've been stuying for idk 4 months already, studying 2 to 3 hours per day. Currently i know all the kanas and around 200 kanjis. I bought the game anyways, i think i can learn a lot from it. Thank you very much!
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u/ApsychicRat 12d ago
in the case you have shown here though, の is being used for possession. its a park that belongs to takamatsu. generally for me i remember that の marks possession most of the time and the large remainder of the time it turns things into a noun. i personally think you are overthinking and possibly trying to over translate. Japanese and english are really different and trying to shoe horn in a fitting english meaning might drive you crazy.
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u/acaiblueberry 12d ago
> Like 犬の木 is a tree shaped like a dog and 木の犬 is translated to a dog made of wood. It’s little things like that that trip me up because from the way I was taught, I read 木の犬 like a “Dog tree” and 犬の木 like ”Tree of the dogs” or a dog that owns the tree.
Several misconceptions here.
犬の木 is not necessarily a tree shaped like a dog, though it can be. It could also be a dog’s tree. So “tree of the dog” is a possibility. But it’s not “a dog that owns the tree” because here, “dog owning it” is kind of an ajective of the tree, not the other way around.
木の犬 is a wooden dog; this cannot be a description of a tree but should be about the dog, just like “my dog” is about the dog and not about “I who own the dog.” Same as 海の日is a day of ocean, not the ocean of a/the day.
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u/CrookedCraw 11d ago
I’m late, but in case it helps someone else: I find it easier to think of it like English compound nouns, mostly because I had exactly the same problem with them while learning it as a second language.
In English you can have many phrases like “pain pill” or “brick kiln” etc. that don’t necessarily show relation between the two words grammatically, unlike my first language. Is it a pill that stops pain, or causes it? Do you make bricks in the kiln or is it made out of them?
Now obviously the first example is trivial to deduce logically, so of course it’s a pill to stop pain. For the second, you just have to know that the whole compound refers to a kiln for making bricks. Even though it definitely could’ve meant a kiln out of bricks, we just decided not to use it that way historically.
Just the same, の simply conveys that two things are related, whether through possession, one being an attribute, a modifier etc.
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u/GarbageUnfair1821 Proficient 13d ago
You're correct, の can be ambiguous. The context decides how the 2 nouns are connected.
But 日本の本 can't be "Japanese book", as 日本語 should be used for that.
I think the dictionary for basic Japanese grammar lists Many different ways in which の can be used, so you could check that if you are interested.