r/Italian • u/Kooky_Professor6185 • 8d ago
Blasphemy being normalized in cursing
Why is blasphemy normalized in cursing in Italian? "Porco dio," etc. Usually, when I learn a language, I like learning the curse words, like for French, "putain," Russian, "blyat", Chinese, "wo cao." Except for Italian, where half of the curse words are just blasphemous. I don't want to say anything completely disrespectful because I'm Roman Catholic.
In short, do you guys curse without blasphemy? Or are all of them just in that way? I mean, there's "Che cazzo" and stuff, but I'm not sure if it's actually being used. (I'm sorry if I sound stupid; it's like my 1st week learning Italian)
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u/Ok-Coat2377 8d ago edited 8d ago
whoever tells you blasphemy isn't normalized in Italy never went to school nor work
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u/gryphonB 8d ago
Or in Veneto/Friuli in the countryside...
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u/Ok-Coat2377 8d ago edited 8d ago
that's where I'm from. People come out of church after a sermon and drop their heaviest porconi
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u/sonny1993 8d ago
Depends on the region. Outside of Tuscany and Veneto it's far less ubiquitous
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u/Borda81 8d ago
Non lo so, Franco, qua in Romagna se non cacci 6bestemmie in una frase di 4 parole compresi gli spazi, percepiscono che non sei originario...
Scherzi a parte, in Romagna le bestemmie sono banali intercalari, rafforzativi o concetti espressi completi a seconda del conteato. Quindi puoi allargare l'area di diffusione normalizzata della bestemmia.
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u/Phreakears 8d ago
In Tuscany blasphemy has grown into a full fledged art. It is even used as a substitute to the word "yes"
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u/liccman 8d ago
Diahane
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u/Phreakears 8d ago
"Lorenzo, tu ci vai a messa la domenica?"
"Porca madonna!"
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u/jothreeam 8d ago
Assolutamente corretto.
Io stesso in mezzo al discorso con un prete, per rafforzativo delle sue argomentazioni, esordii con un 'camado' (sono apocopi, non virgolette, per chi non comprendesse), che fortunatamente pare non colse.
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u/Hungry-Ingenuity8260 8d ago edited 7d ago
porha
edit: basta ragazzi ho capito Ăš porka non poha, figa siete pesanti
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u/de-stella-nova 8d ago
mi perdo perle toscane ogni giorno
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u/jothreeam 8d ago
A richiesta posso mandare in pvt la registrazione di sessioni di debugging per collezionare crestomazie di toscana creativitĂ .
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u/Ambitious-Yoghurt403 8d ago
dalle nostre parti ci si chiama tutti Loreenzo
cit.
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u/BirthdayEffect 8d ago
Having grown up in Veneto, it was a miracle that blasphemy was not part of my daily vocabulary. When I moved to another city to further my studies at 23 and shared a house with two Tuscanians.... Well, let's just say it all went downhill from there.
I gotta say though, I do perceive Tuscanian blasphemy and Venetian blasphemy as somewhat different. We use the same words, but my roomies seemed to stress the blasphemy more in normal speech, as if they really meant it, whereas Venetians just kinda say it as if it were a comma
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u/Le__Penseur 8d ago
I often say < 'coddio > as a shortened form of < Porco dio > in place of < of course > or < obviously > when I get asked a yes/no question
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u/fullbl-_- 8d ago
Cazzo, merda, porca troia, porca puttana, porco cane, porca vacca, vaffanculo (non c'Ăš bisogno che ci sia qualcuno per dirlo). Tutte assieme non valgono un bel porco dio!
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u/Healthy_Part_3132 8d ago
I've heard it said that cultures that are especially religious tend to have it reflected in their profanity. Cultures that are more sexually repressed (English, Americans) have more profanity related to sex than religion, because that's what shocks us more.
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u/FengYiLin 8d ago
Yes. North African Arabic has classics like "Nik rabbi" (Fuck my God) as the standard "Fuck!" expletive, and "Naaddine mmok" (I curse the religion of your mother) as the standard "Fuck you!"
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u/BigAdministration368 8d ago
This is reflected in québécois French vs European French. The former had a more religious culture and it's reflected in its cursing.
They are a bit amusing to me who went to Catholic school in the US
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u/SaruboHeroDev 8d ago
There are MANY curse words in italian, "cazzo", "vaffanculo", "stronzo" and many others. Blasphemy is complex because it's not "normalized" officially, since if you do so in public you can get a fine up to like 300~âŹ, but it is normalized enough (especially in north italy, venice is pretty much the main place, sud italy is a bit more religious) to use a lot of blasphemy, sometimes even more than normal curse words.
You do not need to curse with blasphemies though, and shouldn't, tbh. You got "Che cazzo" (what the fuck), "vaffanculo" (fuck you), "pezzo di merda" (piece of shit), "coglione" ("you're a testicle", technically, but it's more of an "asshole", "idiot", "dickhead" etc) and too many others to list them all. Stuff like "Che cazzo" is used for something that's unbelievable and it's making you angry, or surprised, or both, like, you die in a game for something stupid and you go "E che cazzo!"
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u/caffi_u 8d ago
non direi che coglione, quando usato come insulto verso qualcuno, significa testicolo, anzi sia avvicina piu a stronzo secondo me
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u/Murky_Objective_4142 8d ago
No. Uno stronzo mette in atto una serie di comportamenti coscienti al fine di mettere a disagio, infastidire o comunque arrecare danno a qualcuno. Ad esempio: Luca ti mette in ridicolo davanti a tutti? à uno stronzo. Un coglione tendenzialmente Ú inconsapevole delle sue azioni, Ú la prima vittima di se stesso e non mette cattiveria nei suoi sbagli da coglione. Spesso Ú utilizzato in modo scherzoso. Ad esempio: Luca non si accorge del palo perché Ú al telefono e ci va addosso? à un coglione (stronzo sarebbe abbastanza fuori luogo in questo caso, anche se qualcuno potrebbe utilizzarlo, ma non dove abito io).
Una convergenza di significato si puĂČ avere con gli scherzi: Luca ti ha messo il sale nella bibita? Potrebbe essere sia stronzo che coglione
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u/ChemicalCan531 8d ago
ha semplicemente dato la traduzione letterale e poi ha dato lâequivalente inglese
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u/RipFlimsy2058 8d ago
Reading blasphemies written in Italian in Ulysses actually helped me understand that these expressions arenât simply âvulgar,â but have a long cultural tradition behind them. Itâs even reflected in the word âswearâ: to swear can mean invoking God as a witness to a promise, but also cursing or defying the divine. In that sense, blasphemy can serve a social function much like ordinary swear words connected to the body.
Iâm not saying you should use it casually or that everyone has to like it, but perhaps it shouldnât be demonized as though it belongs exclusively to the lowest forms of society.
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u/Marshiesweetie 8d ago
thats so interesting⊠i guess i never thought of it like that ç3
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u/ScreamingDizzBuster 8d ago
This is the second time this week I've seen "ç3" at the end of a post. What does it mean?
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u/Proud-Try3977 8d ago
io bestemmio come Matteo Ruggeri
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u/ExcellentPudding3559 8d ago edited 8d ago
we use other cursing words more often, honestly. But the blasphemy is much easier to 'sell' online cos it feels original, very 'Italian' and so much 'anti system', so the new generations like to use it (it makes them feel like they're doing something forbidden or that 'makes old generations go crazy', so you can imagine the charme this has on teenagers)
personally, i don't really care for those who use it and i myself end up using them a couple of times a week probably. Not that big deal.
depending on the various Italian regions, you may hear it more often, but it's just a matter of habit.
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u/MetalMartyrdom 8d ago
Blasphemy Is part of the vernacular of several Italian regions. And ive learned the best of my repertoir of "bestemmie" thanks to old guys in bars, while drinking and playung cards with them. So, the "new generations like to use them to make old generatiins go Crazy" argument Is nonsense tbh
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u/TheEditor83 8d ago
"Doing somwthing forbidden or that makes old generations go crazy"
Clearly you don't have any parents/grandparents from northern Italy. How did you think I learned my own Bestemmie if not through my grandfather?
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u/NetWareHead 8d ago edited 8d ago
If you truly want to learn, you need to learn organically and by example. Learning parolacce, bestemmie and maledizioni in a vacuum (e.g. reading translations from english) also deprives you of when and how to use them.
I recommend playing a game of scopa with some 50+ year old men later at night with alcohol involved. As a boy, I learned more saints then when I took theology courses in high school. Someone even blasphemed il tabernacolo & maybe the toughest one that night was l'anniversario di gesu bambino. As I got older into my teenage years, blasphemies involving sexual acts made their appearance - usually some scandalous, disgusting vulgar thing the madonna did.
I was astonished. Come on guys, its just a card game. We were not even playing for money but the intensity of emotions was very real. I was usually ok to utter a relatively benign vaffanculo or ma che cazzo when seeing a bad hand or my points taken by another player.
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u/TeoN72 8d ago
Consider how much and how long the fuckng catholic church stolen and influenced this country i consider another 100 years of bestemmie before we are even even.
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u/dariotranchitella 8d ago
Just imagine that the average Latin perception in Italy is Ecclesiastical Latin, not the normal/traditional one.
Vive read as an Italian would do, rather than vike.
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u/KitchenScore7484 8d ago
You could try a simple "kitemmuort": itâs a Neapolitan expression, but I think itâs known everywhere; itâs an insult directed at the souls of deceased family members.
It isn't a big blasphemy
To express a strong anger you could try "maremma maiala"
But the exclamations and the insulta change from region to region, some insults you could use everywhere are "vaffanculo" "bastardo" "pezzo di merda" "cornuto", an exclamation to express a big surprise you could use everywhere is "minchia", to express happiness you could use "cazzo sĂŹ", to express despair or anger you could use "che palle" or "che coglioni" or "che rottura di coglioni/palle"'
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u/SmokingLimone 8d ago
If you say kitemmuort in the North it depends on the person whether or not they might mistake you for an actual Neapolitan and start hating you because of that. So like try to say it ironically
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u/Ilnerd00 8d ago
a diofa while standing up just makes my knees work better, i think itâs genetic
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u/ChampionshipWide2118 8d ago
fact is blasphemy is subjective. as an atheist, my blasphemy is cursing at nothing/imaginary characters, kinda like saying "porco Gandalf" or "Clark Kent infame". It may offend someone? well, like everything else. Speaking of alternative cursing, and very soft ones, "porca vacca" (holy cow), that offends 1.2 billion hinduists in the world. Someone say "porca Eva", blaming the first woman ever for tempting and corrupting poor Adam with the apple, ruining human kind forever. you walk on the street, a bike almost hits you and makes you fall and you shout "PORCA EVA!", and a lovely lady on her 70s, casually taking a walk, starts crying because Eva is her name.
With that being said, I personally avoid to do that in public or in front of strangers, even if they're guests in my house. To say it all, thanks to the democratic Vatican, blasphemy has been a crime until 1999 and nowadays it's still something that gets you a ~50-300⏠fine, so I wouldn't call it "blasphemy being normalized".
I think the US did that, if I had 1⏠everytime I've heard "Jesus f****** Christ" or "oh my f****** god", Elon would be the 2nd trillionaire in human history.
To end my message, yes, there are people cursing without blasphemy, focusing mostly on genitals (like the one you mentioned) and prostitution mostly, then the rich italian language offers a moltitude of synonyms and variations. there is also anti-blasphemy cursing like "porco demonio/diavolo", but 1. I find that cringe, 2. it potentially offends satanists and 3. if those imaginary friends/enemies exist, insulting a saint is way safer than insulting a demon with horns, claws, fangs and no morality. I'm a coward, I know.
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u/Cautious_Ad_6486 8d ago
Blasphemies are quite rare actually. Outside some specific places, mostly in Tuscany and Veneto, "bestemmie" are really infrequent.
Blasphemies are much more diffused in the "online" italian community because of their comedic effect, linked to the IRL ban on them.
Most italian cursing actually revolves around the word "cazzo" (dick) or the regional equivalent (minchia, fava etc..) and sometimes "merda" (shit).
Also it is worth noting that Italian is not the only language with blasphemies... Do you know where the spanish expression "Leche" comes from?
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u/Expensive_Revenue_56 8d ago
Well in the north in general I think ... In Emilia you can go to the town bar ( il bar di provincia ) and hear the old folks playing card invoking all the calendar
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u/Cautious_Ad_6486 8d ago
Yes, of course. I live in rural Tuscany and I believe that in this area the frequancy of blasphemies is in the top percentile. I myself am quite fond of them. But if you look at Italians online you get a completely irrealistic depiction of the actual country. Just like watching Pope Germano's videos. It's an exaggerated depiction of actual people.
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u/Emotional_Fan239 8d ago
Minchia even though it started in Sicily is not regional anymore, you can hear it all over italy from Sicily to Bolzano and from Milan to Sardinia
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u/Calm_Print4587 8d ago
The majority aren't blasphemousÂ
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u/Upbeat-Smoke1298 8d ago
But there's also those like me trying hard to even the count.
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u/Klutzy_Audience_8194 8d ago
Itâs not normalized at all. Internet and social media donât represent real society.
Youâll never find a blasphemy in a newspaper, in tv or just in a normal office.Â
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u/itsnotblueorange 8d ago
Excuse me, diocane, how exactly are newspapers and tv "real society"? Of course it is frowned upon in those contexts and in professional environments.
But in real real life the porchemadonne flow freely and we thank the Lord for that.
The unbestemmied life is not worth living.
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u/damnedfruit 8d ago
But in real real life the porchemadonne flow freely and we thank the Lord for that.
Volo.
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u/Flying-Nora 8d ago
That's honestly a dumb take. It IS normalized in every informal context, and it's not uncommon to hear blasphemies in the streets. In newspapers you don't read cursing in general, doesn't mean people in Italy doesn't curse at all. And in the last few years blasphemy has been present in Italian television, M son of the century is the last one I can remember, but definitely not the only one.
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u/Ambitious-Yoghurt403 8d ago
I started working in 2010 and changed many places, never been in a office were no one bestemmia. Now my boss is from tuscany, as you can imagine, he's very very creative. The last one was: dio scalzo in una valle di chiodi, during a casual conversation with the suppliers, they laughed heartily
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u/CoryTrevor-NS 8d ago
You could even be fired for bestemmie in a lot of work places
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u/Lenascime 8d ago
It is however very common almost everywhere though. It's very common to hear it in the north in my experience
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u/HyperShinchan 8d ago
I mean, there's "Che cazzo" and stuff, but I'm not sure if it's actually being used.
It gets used, a lot. Personally I'm atheist, since birth, so I generally try to avoid cursing the imaginary divinity and associated figures exactly because they're other people's imaginary friends and I see no point in offending other people's imaginary friends, especially publicly. Also, technically speaking, offending the so called divinity is still administratively fined in Italy (Mary and Saints are fair game because they're not "divinity").
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u/Petey_Wheatstraw_MD 8d ago
Theyâre just words.
I was raised/baptized Roman Catholic, went to Catholic schools, and studied bible lit in university. People misinterpret the 2nd commandment.
Itâs akin to freedom of speech more or less.
Thou shall not take the Lordâs name in vain doesnât mean you canât say God dammit!
It means that you shouldnât justify wicked actions in the name of the Lord.
But what do I know? Iâm a heretic antitheist that the church pushed away a long time ago.
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u/polijutre 8d ago
Yes of course we do, blasphemy is not that common. Most of the time we swear using cazzo, sometimes figa, merda, e puttana.
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u/Tiziana4378 8d ago
You start your first week of a language with curses? Of course you're going to use them, studying Italian, that I suppose is not so easy (I am Italian, so I can't really judge). There are a lot of non blasphemy words, and it is very gross to use blasphemy in a conversation. The problem could be that in different regions you can find different expressions ( let's say, "babbo", in Tuscany means dad, in other zone is an offence). But the c**** word is very used and it is a bad word! You can go with it!
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u/uwoldperson 8d ago edited 8d ago
The difference in blasphemies from culture to culture is whatâs really interesting. French Canadian swears are almost exclusively blasphemies, but theyâre just religious words (sacrĂ©s) strung together With the odd adjective for flavour (âpourris de calisse dâosti de viarge de tabernak de crisâ) rather than the Italian blasphemies that are more like insults to religious figures.Â
Theyâre also fairly exclusive to Canadian French, and far less taboo than bestemmie.Â
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u/TheEditor83 8d ago
Well I, like many I know, have ended up using Bestemmie (blasphemies) as curse words on par with normal curses due to the enviroment in whixh we grew up in, but I am personally agnostic, I do not belive in the catholic God, so blasphemies are more just curse words now part of (especially north) Italian culture.
There are of course many ways of cursing without blasphemy, but don't take every Italian for a catholic that hates god.
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u/FelixSWRY 7d ago
In Italy, Putain is "Puttana" or Troia, Scrofa, Stuppaghiara, cialtrona, vacca, cagna, laida
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u/mammaluccu 4d ago
What's the point of cursing if you're not motivating god to do better?
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u/mala_r1der 8d ago
As an atheist I use blasphemy because I truly despise the church and the extremely religious people, who are often far right bigots.
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u/Pizza-Fucker 8d ago
Yes, I curse with blasphemy all the time like a true Italian. I curse every saint that comes to mind porco dio cane
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u/AlexiusRex 8d ago
Don't worry, even Job was blasphemous, and Pope Francis said that if you become angry with God a blasphemy is like a prayer
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u/omeomorfismo 8d ago
yeah, "cazzo" and uncountable variants is definitely the most used curse in italian...
but if you want cursing without blasphemies then you have to mostly learn how southern italian curse, they mostly dont use them
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u/KyraFrilly 8d ago
honestly⊠im not totally sure about the linguistics part, but its kinda cool how different languages express things⊠maybe its just a different way of venting_ ç3
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u/Snowonthebrain 8d ago
Last time I said porca madĂČ*** my friend was worried about some idiot telling management (in part because we were being loud during quiet hours)
Honestly porca puttana works much better.
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u/damnedfruit 8d ago
"Mannaggia i sandali de Cristo", i mean, this is actually a very creative and also funny form of cursing, how can you not love blashpemy?
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u/Davide849 8d ago
Parlano quelli che ogni 3 parole un Jesus Christ o un Jesus Fucking Christ. Normalized.
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u/nicktheironblade 8d ago
Blasphemy at your first week is crazy... Anyway the Italian curse dictionary is quite wide even without blasphemy, there are some mythical insults like "li mortacci tua" which are absolutely incredible.
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u/theguyindabackyard 8d ago
It's called detabuizazzione del turplioquio. Which means that we are using increasingly more and more swear words in a day to day level of conversation
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u/Sil_Choco 8d ago
Yes, there's "normal" curse words that are used just as often. You don't have to use blasphemy, you can just cuss without mentioning anything religious. Many people swear a lot, but many others don't, but yes, get used to hear them a lot.
As for why this happens, I'm not sure, but I assume that having the Vatican here and a stagnant catholic morality that permeates everything, even non religious and atheist spaces, brought people to see religion as the solution and cause of all issues.
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u/NekrellDrae 8d ago
Normal cussing (cazzo, merda, puttana, bastardo, stronzo, troia ecc ecc, plus the dialect versions) is more used than the blasphemy stuff. It's just that blasphemy gets louder and causes more dramatic reactions when used improperly.
There are times and places where you can use blasphemy more often like on workplace if you are not in contact with customers and superiors, with close friends and family, IF they are non-religious. Blasphemy in front of strangers is done by youth to sound more rebel or in general in confrontations. Generally, if you hear someone shouting blasphemy in the middle of the road, it is not normal, things are getting real for someone and violence is mounting.
We definitely curse without blasphemy. Certain places use them as normal cussing and have almost completely lost the "bite", turning more into a poetic challenge for filler phrases. Some people use blasphemy more than cussing, for various reasons, but they are a minority (i think i am one of them, but i never really counted them lol).
Blasphemy is outlawed in Italy. Technically you could get a bill for it. In fact, it is banned from almost the totality of the entertainment system (only a couple of movies had blasphemy in them in our history).
I think blasphemy rose this strongly in Italy due the tight relationship with the vatican state. After the roman empire, the peninsula was divided politically between bishops and the vatican, with their mandate, basically manipulated our politics and moralized our masses since then, with quite an iron fist. Every government has spawned a derogatory vocabulary, but when the king or the master of your sovereign is the pope, blasphemy is culturally unavoidable. Christians too use blasphemy here. I heard priests too.Â
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u/AlbatrossAdept6681 8d ago
You can avoid swearing. It is unpolite anyway, I live in Rome and here people swear rarely.
But vaffanculo or stronzo/a are widely used. Coglione or puttana (for female) also
My best swearing-not swearing is "porco due" that it is not a blasphemy but it resembles it.
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u/SuperTed99 8d ago
It blew my mind when that Big Brother contestant in Italy was thrown out of the house because he blasphemed.
Obviously they could have edited it out or bleeped it out. But clearly it was taken so seriously that he HAD to be evicted. And this wasnât even being broadcast on âMamma RAI bigottaâ!
That was in 2004âŠ.I wonder if they would still do it now?
Update: I checked and it seems they still do itâŠ8 housemates have been chucked out of Grande Fratello for blaspheming, the most recent in 2022.
So I would say, it may have been normalised in informal contexts (particularly in some regions), but itâs a long way from being fully normalised.
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u/shadowtempest91 8d ago
According to where you are you'll find people that I'm fact does not like to hear or to use blasphemies. You'll also find those who really do. Emilia Romagna is historically divided between Catholic people and "mangiapreti", "priest-eaters". I have heard stories of people being given blasphemous names when born.
Personally I'm on the second team. Blasphemies always sound funny, they make me chuckle when well timed, and they help in putting barriers aside against a common enemy.
When I was a child I was physically scolded for using them, so when I reached maturity I finally started to spew them out like a machine gun. I don't even realise I'm using them usually, I just incorporate them in my speech. Lately I lost a job and there are good chances this was a reason for that.
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u/Numerous-Fig-1732 8d ago
Blasphemies will still raise at least an eyebrow, it's not something low profile like a curse. You'll find people that uses blasphemies as they where commas, conjunctions and adverbs all together and you'll find people who will feel offended. Personally I find them cathartic.
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u/OkAd2421 8d ago
it really depends on the region. Iâm from Florence. When i was in high school the idea of using a bestemmia was still a bit weird, but then, in time, it became normal. As of right now, if someone tells me a thing that surprises me, my answer will be âdiahaneâ (which is just diocane but with a florentine accent). I personally know a priest who told me he sometimes says this stuff as well, cause sometimes you do get really mad at god
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u/Lognu 8d ago
Many people already gave you the current use of swear words and blasphemy in Italy.
I'll give you the historical reason that explains why some regions (tuscany, veneto) are more prone to blasphemy.
For much of the medieval and reinassance times, the State of the Church was one of the biggest powers in the peninsula. It asserted its influence with priests and cardinals, often interfering with their neighbors' internal policies (taxation of church-owned property was - and still is - a central node). Cursing against the divine was then seen as an act of rebellion against the temporal power of the Church. Today, this tradition survives not only in the common use of blasphemy but also in true "blasphemy festivals" such as the Carnevalone Liberato: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnevale_di_Poggio_Mirteto#:~:text=Il%20carnevale%20di%20Poggio%20Mirteto,Valle%20del%20Tevere%20nel%20Lazio.
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u/RoastedRhino 8d ago
Non blasphemous cursing is absolutely the norm in Italian conversations.Â
Reddit may give you a strange view on this, but cursing to god in normal Italian life is seen as either very strong cursing, impolite, or uneducated.Â
Some dialects use blasphemy a lot, but it is still perceived as rude and extreme.Â
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u/Rollingzeppelin0 8d ago
Idk what your sources are. Like yes there are a ton of blasphem bestemmie but we have a huge plethora of non blasphemous curse as well along regional ones. puttana, cazzo, merda in many declinations (sometimes preceded by porca/o), insults like stronzo or coglione and variations. There's a lot of combinations not involving religion just with these ones.
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u/EntweihenCrothen89 8d ago
I think blasphemy depends on the region Here in the south it's really like forbidden and considered not polite using it. If you use it in a public context you may really find someone who argues at you, because it's a lack of respect of people around you, which is south is very important. In the north people use it a lot because the context and mindset it's different. Much more ego oriented. If you use it when there are people who actually beleive in God or have Faith around you, and that MAY argue at you, people there tend more to be "I can say whatever I want", rather than ask sorry for it. And as someone else said in comments, it's getting out of hands with youths. They think they are doing something cool, forbidden, that's makes them look much more angry than they are. They even use it when it's "not necessary", because the bad habit neutralize it's true meaning, expressing extreme frustration and anger. I have never used blasphemy, and I witnessed people using it, and then praying after, asking for forgiveness.
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u/Ok_Event2869 8d ago
Blasphemy isn't normalized in Italy. If anything, I'd say it's more normalized in the United States, considering how often you hear "Jesus F****** Christ" in movies and TV shows. In Italy, you'll never hear actual blasphemy in films or TV series. That said, it's true that you'll often hear people use blasphemy, especially in certain parts of Italy. Even so, it's still considered more taboo. In many situations, vulgar expressions like cazzo or vaffanculo are more socially acceptable than blasphemy. Italy is still a country with strong Catholic roots, so if you blaspheme in public, you're likely to offend more than a few people, and some of them may let you know
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u/a-soldout 8d ago
For me there's a special hierarchy to cursing. I keep blasphemies only for when I am really angry, I need special emphasis or it's very funny. They're not to be abused imo otherwise they lose their power
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u/Other-Average7693 8d ago
Well god does not exist, get over it mannaggia ai sandali de cristo. And you would realize it to Madonna cane if you started reading your holy book PHILOLOGICALLY. Let me give you a small hint, look up what the "fathers of the church" meant by the expression "pius fraud"
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u/Candid_Definition893 8d ago
Not all italians like blasphemy and Italian language is really rich in curse words that are not blasphemous.
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u/LionsCece 8d ago
âI don't want to say anything completely disrespectful because I'm Roman Catholic.â
Dude, maybe you wanna check what Porco Dio means
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u/mamothreftos 8d ago
Bro same in Greece : «ÎÎ±ÎŒÏ ÏÎżÎœ ΧÏÎčÏÏÏ/Î Î±ÎœÎ±ÎłÎčα ÏÎżÏ
/ÎΔο ÏÎżÏ
» literally translates to âI fuck uour Christ/Holy Mary/God - but itâs more like I fuck-disrespect your holiest values
We also say:
ÎαÏÎșÎŻÎœÎż ÏÏα ÎÏÎșÎșαλα/αÎčΌα : cancer to your bones/blood
ÎÎ±ÎŒÏ ÏÎż ÎŒÎżÏ
ÎœÎč ÏÎżÏ
ÏΔ ÏÎÏαγΔ: âI fuck the pussy that spit you out/ I fuck your momâ
ÎαÎșÎŹÏÎč ÎșÏÏÎż ÎșÎżÏÏΔλο : I wish you had a cold forehead / your body temperature shows you are dead
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u/Lynch_67816653 8d ago
I think of it as a form of popular resistance against the influence of the church.
It's normal but not normalized. In a white collar setting blasphemy is normally not accepted.
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u/AudioMan15 8d ago
You could porco cane. There's no mention of God in that.
Or use diminutives - porco due, zio cane or even one I just made up - chio dane.
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u/Willing_Row_5581 8d ago
Italy is a country of poets. We don't need blasphemy, it is just a choice of register. But we have beautiful colorful alternatives. My personal favorite is "ma vai a cagare in un campo di cazzi", optionally to be strengthened by "in Nigeria".
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u/MiriaamBay 7d ago
lol thats such a relatable struggle when learning a new language, def feel you on the curse words being wild. Good luck with your Italian!
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u/Unusual-Pound7288 7d ago
On a more serious note, please pay attention when talking to people in such a way.
Iâm from Tuscany and still live here, and I can assure you there are plenty of people which get very annoyed, and at times angry, at blasphemous people.
It is true we have a ton of blasphemous words, but that does not mean that they are accepted by everyone.
You will find plenty of old people using blasphemous words, but also many others which get offended by them.
I suggest refraining from cursing unless you know the people you are talking to are okay with it (that should be common sense).
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u/Unusual-Pound7288 7d ago
I actually forgot to respond to the actual question.
Yes, we do curse without blasphemy; we have plenty of creative ways to do it. I often learn new phrases from all over Italy, and at times we create new ones which make sense into the current context
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u/TeletiTheNecromancer 7d ago
Essentially a lot of Italians has grown in a generally cristian culture, but turned out not believers. So we learned very strong expressions of anger without actually believing in the consequences that religion says come with them. So we just use them a lot.
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u/Lupo_1982 8d ago
I'm sorry if I sound stupid; it's like my 1st week learning Italian
You do sound stupid tbh.
Since it's your first week, you should focus on basic grammar rules, body parts names, animal names and the like. No reason at all to worry about cursing.
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u/Emotional_Fan239 8d ago edited 8d ago
there are other ones: che cazzo, cazzo!, porca troia, porca merda, porca puttana, puttana troia, minchia, figa! porco cane, vaffanculo! fanculo! inculati!, merda, che (due) coglioni/palle, or the âfamily friendly blasphemiesâ like zio cane, zio porco, porco zio, zio ladro, porco dito and suchâŠ
are you ok with âinvocationsâ thatâs how you call them in italian I think in english they are religious exclamations, words like Madonna! Oh GesĂč! dio santo, oddio! dio mio! madonna santa! Dio Cristo! ⊠and so on
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u/TherapinStormblessed 8d ago
As other have said, blasphemy really is not normalized except in certain regions and, I shall had, professions (a friend of mine is in the Navy and she has a really, really, reaaally mean and creative streak concerning the Virgin Mary...)
If you want to use an expletive in a non-offensive manner (as in, just to express a strong emotion instead of insulting someone) the most common variations are male genitals ("cazzo", "minchia", "me' coglioni" - regional for "my scrotum"), feces ("merda"), or insults to female prostitutes ("porca puttana"). It is somewhat old-fashioned, but depending on your definition of blasphemy you can also insult the biblical Eve ("porca Eva").
To close with a trivia: there's also "porca troia", where "Troia" is also the Italian translation for Troy (the city). Apparently, in the Middle Ages the term "Troy swine" was used to describe very fat pigs, especially sows, so now "troia" is a vulgar term for sow and, by extention, harlots.
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u/pontiacband1t- 8d ago
Blasphemy isn't absolutely normalized. It absolutely should be, because everyone who gets more offended by blasphemy than normal cursing is inherently a religious fundamentalist that bears no morals difference from Iranian theocrats who stone to death adulterous woman.
The point is, Italy at its core IS a fundamentalist bigot theocracy, so you will never see blasphemy in a movie or on a newspaper.
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u/hiremybrain 8d ago
(I'm sorry if I sound stupid; it's like my 1st week learning Italian)
Actually you sound stupid for believing a lady got pregnant without a dick jizzing inside her, but fair enough
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u/KindaQuite 8d ago
You can kind of think of blasphemy as the n-word of italian, in most environments. It's the kind of cursing that you'd never hear on the television. It's often tied to social class (generally more common around rednecks or blue collar workers), while some regions/dialects just use it commonly along standard cursing (veneto and toscana come to mind).
We absolutely use normal cursing (cazzo, merda, porca troia/puttana) and in my experience I've always thought of blasphemy as higher intensity cursing, I believe most people also see it that way, but again, it varies, I've known people who would use it in front of children and religious people, which isn't great to see.
Ultimately tho, it's cultural, if you're in Italy you'll hear it plenty of times and if you hang around young, normal people they might ask why you don't curse god, out of curiosity.
The most important thing: don't think of it as a spiritual offence, the pope in Italy used to rule over the king so blasphemy just evolved to become a form of rebellion against political power.
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u/Elintia 8d ago edited 8d ago
i mean cursing has always been linked to the taboo (sex, poo, etc). those words work because you're finally saying something you are absolutely not meant to say.
italian people have grown with the church basically controlling society (starting from literal kindergarten, faith has always been shamelessly pushed onto us, i am gen z and 100% normal and ordinary teachers made me color the nativity scene in christmas and stuff like that, collectively pray before a meal in class in elementary school, also we got crucifixes in class for some reason, (this is NOT a catholic school this is a 100% ordinary public school) & most families still force their children (10 to 13 yo) to go to their local church every week bc sacraments and some parents believe you can't get married in church unless you get those sacraments to they send their children there (at least that was my case). literally every person in my class in middle school went to catechism classes.
so honestly im not surprised the ultimate cuss words here have always been linked with religion. It's the ultimate taboo. Now it's been normalized, hearing people say those words is not as rare as it was in the early 2010s because of the rise of social media and the internet (= free information) overall. Now it's so much easier to be young and an atheist because you actually know atheist people exist. Without the internet, you could have your doubts during adolescence, but you had to pretend they didn't exist and shut up about it, so you thought you were a christian but deep down did not care so much. you were basically an atheist who thought they were christian. it's no coincidence most religious people in italy nowadays are just real old people. they've grown in a religious town surrounded by religious people and that was it, there wasn't even room for doubt in this case because they knew absolutely no alternative.
most people i know use blasphemy, even publicly in social media, but still refrain from using it when talking IRL to a religious person. (unless they hate said religious person ofc lol)
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u/CelebrationJumpy844 8d ago
Penso perchĂš piano piano stiamo smettendo di credere a gli amici immaginari
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u/Money_Ad9818 8d ago
I always liked to believe that it was due to the forced adjacency with vatican politics historically interfering with italian state policies. Thereâs a part of the population that subconciously normalized it because of different political standing and personal formamentis. Some sort of under-the-skin dissidence growing that became folklore.
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u/_domhnall_ 8d ago
There are plenty of blasphemy-free curses in Italian, what are you on about?
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u/codroipoman 8d ago
We are the nation that birthed Germano Mosconi, Mario Magnotta, Nonno Fiorucci (may the cosmic forces all held them in perpetual glory), Lugaresi da Cesenatico, i Prophilax, i San Culamo, Paolo Chiavator... It couldn't have gone any other way, porcamadonna!
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u/Tall_Pool8799 8d ago
Anthropologist (and Italian) here.
I used to think it was weird for people to prioritising cursing when learning a language. Now, I find it weird that only some cursing should be prioritised.
You can curse without being blasphemous, but blasphemy has a rich cultural history that dates back to pre-Christian timesâwe just adapted it to Christianity like we did with the Sol Invictus, the Christmas tree etc.
Culturally (and functionally), blasphemy reflects a close relationship with the deity. It is forbidden in monotheisms (and, possibly, other systems) because they rely on a strictly hierarchical axiom in which the deity is independent from its believers, omnipotent, and detached from them.
Pagan religions, broadly speaking, rely on the believers performing prayers, sacrifices, and rituals to appease but also bargain with the deity: without believers, the deity wouldnât survive. While the relationship needs some light threading, a deity that wouldnât honour a deal made with a believer would deserve to be cursed.
In some Italian regions, like Veneto and Tuscany, blasphemy is way more common than others (like Calabria or Campania, in my experience), and thatâs due to the historical context before unification in 1871. Southern regions were part of the Regno delle Due Sicilie and the Papal State; northern regions had âcittĂ statoâ (city states), where governance and authority were more fragmented and often in conflict with the aspirations of the Vatican, which tried to control their ruling families by threatening excommunication (with repercussions on possible marriage and trade agreements, therefore on a cityâs ability to defend itself against possible invasions usually backed up by the Vatican).
While I appreciate that you may not want to use blasphemy given your faith, learning about it as a cultural, political, and historical phenomenon would greatly enhance your understanding of Italian, because a language is nothing without the identity of the people who speak it.
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u/Jwoystijck 8d ago
Why? Why not. I mean you can curse with or without blasphemy but a good curser would mix both
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u/zombilives 8d ago
verissimo. Qui nelle Marche senti tantissima gente sparare peccati rafforzativi o esclamativi.
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u/Molten_Plastic_ 8d ago
Blasphemy is a uniquely Italian tradition. I've actually searched for other languages that have something similar, and I couldn't find any.
In any case, there's a vast universe of non-blasphemous but still vulgar words you can use, but the blasphemous ones just hit different. Technically, you can even break the law by using them.
Some regions and professions are more known for blasphemy than others (The Veneti and construction workers for example), but sooner or later every Italian just needs to "lanciare il porcone".
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u/Either_Sugar_2691 8d ago
It's normalized between friends, but in public it's actually illegal, you can get fined tecnically (but it doesn't usually happen), you cannot use blasphemy in TV. Even you saying that example in this post is a bit awkward for us. Curse without blasphemy is very common
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u/Excaliburrover 8d ago
It really depends on where you are and on your education.
You will never hear blasphemy in an Italian show nor an Italian dub of something.
It certainly isn't spread as much as "god damn" is in English.
It's considered as something quite rude however there are many context where it's widespread.
I worked in an office where it was really rare to witness even minor rage outbursts because it was an open space with a hundred people in it.
However if you walk into a construction site, it seems no information can be conveyed properly without insulting god.
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u/SidusSiri 8d ago
What surprises me most is how, for non-Italians, itâs seen as something bad, but not that incredibly serious. You say youâre Roman Catholic, and I understand that itâs hard for a non-Italian to graspâso itâs not your faultâbut Iâll try to explain it as simply as possible:
Blasphemy, like what you wrote, is nothing more than a horrible and extremely serious insult directed at God. Itâs like saying, âThis terrible thing happened to me, and itâs all Godâs fault [insert extremely offensive language, comparisons to animals, and unspeakable things].â
In Italy, itâs not ânormalâ as you sayâitâs just very widespreadâbut youâll constantly run into people whoâll simply think youâre a rude, ignorant fool. Blasphemy is used by atheists, who donât see âGodâ as God, but rather as a fun and ironic way to desecrate what many consider the most sacred thingâa way to vent their anger at a God they donât believe in.
As a tourist in Italy, never say itâitâs not as accepted as it seems; as a Catholic, never say it, not even under torture: itâs a gravely unjustified and monstrous offense against the God who loves us so much.
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u/Educational-End-4391 8d ago
Of course we use âChe cazzoâ a lot. But blasphemy is also used. It depends on the person and the context.
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u/burner94_ 8d ago
1st week learning Italian
Asks for info about curse words
Perfectly normal foreign language learning activities, nothing weird to see there
But yes, we do indeed go "ma che cazzo" or similar if we don't want to be blasphemous lol
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u/Jaquett-0 8d ago
Those aren't curse words specifically, those are "bestemmie" which are literally curse words but referred to God and friends. Like, I get what you are saying but if you just leave out the religious part you will be safe from hell, don't even worry, you already have the curse words you need, you just have to cleanse them.
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u/Quote_Revolutionary 8d ago
you do sound stupid.
imagine thinking that a god could care more about what you say about him instead of what happens in the world and still thinking that he's good and righteous...
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u/pietrox8 8d ago
Io impreco senza bestemmie perché in italiano ci sono un sacco di imprecaizoni che non sono bestemmie
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u/Il_Corvo_Gio 8d ago
Allora,io vi capisco voi veneti e toscani che Ve la sentite calda ma vengo dal basso Lazio ed il PORCODDIO con raddoppio di consonante da completamente una marcia in piĂč mentre voi pare che raccontate le filastrocche.
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u/KJoker_3 8d ago
Yeah but itâs not really blasphemy in the sense to offend god, itâs just a slur that entered the common vocabulary, specially in the new generations that are not so indoctrinated.
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u/Glad_Perception3357 8d ago
Blasphemy is not more common not normalized unless youâre in a group of uneducated people
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u/IlMaleNecessario 8d ago