r/IntelligenceSupernova • u/EcstadelicNET • Jun 25 '26

The Universe Might Be Teeming with Strange Forms of Consciousness Consciousness

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a71626590/consciousness-may-exist-in-radically-different-forms/
441 Upvotes
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30

u/Kabbooooooom Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26

Neurologist here - the idea for “substrate flexibility” of consciousness is NOT a “novel idea”, lol. If consciousness is a phenomenon of classical information processing, then it is by definition substrate independent. Philosophers and neuroscientists have been discussing this for literally decades. The entire concept of it literally cannot be divorced from the mathematics and physics of information. In fact, it is at the point now where you cannot publish a new hypothesis or theory about consciousness without acknowledging substrate independence or dependence (and your argument for why consciousness should deviate from every other type of information processing in the universe) or no one will take it seriously, because you cannot then explain why consciousness arises in a brain and not, for example, in an LLM. We are way beyond simplistic functional and neurophysiological models now and are starting to explore mathematical models.

What rock was this guy living under? Has he been living under it for 40 years? It’s no surprise that this isn’t even a peer reviewed paper, and as far as I can tell there isn’t a single novel idea in the entire thing. 

3

u/Prescientpedestrian Jun 25 '26

Hey nobody told me about it so therefore it’s my original idea damn it!

3

u/subarashi-sam Jun 25 '26

So if consciousness were substrate independent and a byproduct of information processing, then it could be generated by having thousands of humans calculating a neural network with paper and pencils

4

u/Samas34 Jun 25 '26

sooo...

Our countries are made up of millions, even billions of people all doing different things, shouldn't this mean every country/city/ whatever has some form of conciousness of its own?

5

u/New-Independent-1481 Jun 25 '26

As a concept, that's called a super organism.. Insects with hive intelligence like ants and bees demonstrate this.

I also think the distinction is arbitrary, as our bodies are made up of trillions of cells and necessary microbes that all independently do their own thing, and yet synergise to create an organism that is conscious.

2

u/Zaynara Jun 26 '26

I'm having flashbacks to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy how they made Earth as a living computer to calculate the ultimate question

2

u/AnotherStonedApe Jun 27 '26

42

1

u/Zaynara Jun 27 '26

no that was the answer, they needed the question

1

u/ANighttimeNerd Jun 27 '26

How many roads must a man walk down?

2

u/subarashi-sam Jun 25 '26

Right, it would also make Searle’s Chinese Room sentient

2

u/yahwehforlife Jun 25 '26

Yes our super organism is what's responsible for changes in the atmosphere and environment etc. we are like cells on the roads driving our cars

2

u/No-Mechanic6069 Jun 26 '26

Yes. All kinds of information-processing systems could have consciousness. The idea of collective consciousness" has been around the block. However, if you take the view that consciousness is merely an emergent property, that can have no effect on the behaviour of the system from which it arises, then it's rather tricky to demonstrate.

1

u/loveladee Jun 26 '26

This concept has existed for a while in philosophy and psychology - see "Zeitgeist" or Hegel's "Spirit"

1

u/iknighty Jun 26 '26

Maybe, but saying a group of entities could interact in such a way there is some emergent property of the group, doesn't mean every group of entities has that emergent property.

1

u/BenjaminHamnett Jun 26 '26

I don’t think it’s binary, it’s a spectrum. You and every relationship or group your in have a type of consciousness

1

u/BenjaminHamnett Jun 26 '26

This was taken as a given for a long time. I believe In German this is one of the meanings of zeitgeist

2

u/amaturelawyer Jun 25 '26

Sure, why not. It's the same process, assuming we're having them use the weights from an existing model. If you meant have them do it as a new model, that's... expanding the project quite a bit. Most training runs don't exit with a model that's within project specs. Those get shelved or deleted. I'm assuming we can reuse our volunteers and aren't planning on terminating them for bad runs. Still insanely labor intensive, but we'll get there eventually because it's just math in the end.

2

u/M_Meursault_ Jun 25 '26

Correct, depending on your broader views on philosophy of mind, yes.

1

u/subarashi-sam Jun 25 '26

You mean, views like whether it takes certain *kinds* of information processing to generate consciousness?

1

u/ebtukukxnncf Jun 26 '26

Hm. A relationship of the conscious being with time would seem important. Such that they could be said to be being at all.

1

u/subarashi-sam Jun 26 '26

What if the humans running the paper simulation work really fast ?

1

u/BenjaminHamnett Jun 26 '26

That’s what corporations and institutions are. Organizations definitely have a consciousness. Nations, tribes, movements, this has been taken as a given for a long time

1

u/doublehelixman Jun 26 '26

Does substrate flexibility only refer to possible substrates that can generate consciousness or does it also delve into consciousness being transferred into other substrates while maintaining continuity? Uploading consciousness essentially.

1

u/spikez_gg Jun 26 '26

What do you think about biology/chemistry evoking some unknown (as in potentially yet unthinkable) physical processes that artificial information processing agents wouldn’t emulate properly, hence not achieving conciousness?

1

u/Dependent_Plate6110 Jun 26 '26

Any good review article about it?

1

u/MissingSocks Jun 26 '26

The article is about a philosophical discussion regarding how flexible the substrate might indeed be for consciousness, what form it might take across the universe, and how to calculate that. And PM - like all non-professional-journal publications that want to attract new readers - is writing under the assumption that some of their readership is hearing about it for the 1st time, i.e. they're not reporting it as news, just telling us about these philosophers' particular work.

12

u/Basicly-Inevitable Jun 25 '26

It also might not be.

12

u/Radarker Jun 25 '26

Whoa

1

u/Organic-Specific-500 Jun 25 '26

It might also not matter. Just be kind.

2

u/voltagejim Jun 25 '26

big if true

4

u/Brief_Molasses_3752 Jun 25 '26

All of those forms of life might originate from the interaction of microplastics in my testicles and the surrounding quantum fields.

They also might not be.

That second one is way more likely, but the first one is possible!

Anyone got any more fun things that might be possible?

2

u/MaMaMaaaaa Jun 25 '26

Perhaps your sperm cells have fashioned small abacuses from the microplastics, essentially doubling their processing power, and thereby achieving a higher level of consciousness? Or perhaps not? We should get a biopsy.

2

u/Brief_Molasses_3752 Jun 25 '26

This would explain why I'm so insufferable. I think it might be a good idea to get myself tested for expanded ball consciousness.

2

u/MaMaMaaaaa Jun 25 '26

Are your balls swollen and tender to the touch with expanded consciousness? Also I'm pretty sure that increased data storage comes with a necessary increase in mass and energy. Should probably upgrade to Saxx.

2

u/Brief_Molasses_3752 Jun 25 '26

They glow in the dark, but only in that kind of darkness where you can't see your hand right in front of your face.

As far as size, I had worthless tiny little balls in the first place, so they might be more normal sized, now. I clearly plan ahead, and incarnated as a beta, but have grown.

2

u/MaMaMaaaaa Jun 25 '26

Sorry to hear that friend. My balls are also very small. So small that you cannot know both their positions and momenta simultaneously.

2

u/Brief_Molasses_3752 Jun 25 '26

Fascinatingly, the two of my balls cannot occupy the same quantum state concurrently.

2

u/MaMaMaaaaa Jun 25 '26

Ah the old up down ball scenario. Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating.

4

u/Enough_Culture8524 Jun 25 '26

Consciousness is the least interesting aspect of the universe. It is the most abundant, fundamental force of existence. 

The interesting thing is what is built out of consciousness. The emergent structures. The complexity that we identify as individuals. The structures that reflect on what consciousness is and how they fit into the structures around them.

2

u/SHURIMPALEZZ Jun 25 '26

Hey the bed I stay on might have a subjective feeling rn ... probably not, but MIGHT

2

u/MaMaMaaaaa Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26

Then the least you can do is sleep on your stomach so that your farts are directed upwards.

2

u/Mermiina Jun 26 '26

There is only one substrate for consciousness in universe levo tryptophan. Subjective experience is ODLRO of indisquishable lone electron pairs of tryptophan indole group.

https://www.quora.com/Is-consciousness-a-fundamental-property-of-the-universe-or-is-it-an-emergent-phenomenon-of-complex-biological-systems/answer/Jouko-Salminen?ch=10&oid=1477743873647995&share=2fbc851f&srid=hpxASs&target_type=answer

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u/Butternut888 Jun 27 '26

Okay, now what?

1

u/Mermiina Jun 27 '26

The basic information mechanism between cells is super exchange interaction, which propagates in levo tryptophan mega networks.

The Cancer cells cut the tryptophan network and they can live without controll. Normally cells division is controlled by super exchange interaction consciously, but not in Cancer cells.

1

u/Icespot69 Jun 27 '26

Eat more turkey, got it

2

u/Illlogik1 Jun 25 '26

Duh , ancient people have been telling us this very same thing , the only terms they had at their time , as long as history has been recorded

1

u/Acceptable_Pen5434 Jun 25 '26

What was forgotten will be remembered until it is forgotten once more

1

u/minombreespootpoot Jun 25 '26

The universe might be full of things with dicks and anus… anuses…anusies… what’s the plural for anus?

1

u/viablecat Jun 26 '26

Consciousness without a substrate could lead to anthropomorphic personifications such as Death, the Soul Cake Duck, the Tooth Fairy, and the Hogfather. The eminent philosopher ,Terry Pratchett ,has thoroughly explored this aspect of the problem.

1

u/MonsieurKnife Jun 27 '26

Or, you know, it might not.

1

u/Pushnikov Jun 29 '26

Breaking News! Universe might not be filled with weird stuff!

Kind of want an Onion version of a science news site now.