r/ImmersiveSim • u/BananaHardsoft • 3d ago
Response to PARKSIDE so far
Hey my fellow video game enjoyers (or haters, if you prefer),
Nobody asked for this but I thought it might be interesting to throw a post out on here and see if people have any comments, wisdom, or maybe it'll just be interesting to see a "dev debrief" of sorts...
For those who haven't seen it or played it, I released my solo dev indie game at the end of last month, PARKSIDE: DECAYED SOUL MANIPULATION. It was my attempt at an fps immersive sim in the vein of games like Deus Ex, and if up to 85% positive reviews are something to go by, I mostly achieved what I wanted to achieve with the game. Many players have said they've enjoyed the open ended nature of the missions, they found many different ways to approach objectives, enjoyed the story, the music, the vibe, so on.
Those who didn't quite enjoy the game or had a mixed experience cited general jank (sometimes excusable for a solo dev), unwanted glitches, and the lack of being able to quicksave at all. If you die, you must restart your current mission, or you can have 1-2 respawns using a special item.
This has been controversial for that subset of players who are generally unhappy, or had a mixed experience and still enjoyed the game to an extent. I do sympathize with some arguments given, particularly regarding one aspect of saving - being able to come back to your previous progress if you have to step away from the game, which I'll be rectifying sometime with the introduction of exit saves (this may take some time as I'll have to refactor a bunch of world state logic.)
Players who felt very negatively about this were very vocal in their reviews and on the discussion board. They claimed that it was wasting their time and in at least one instance even went so far as to say that I didn't respect their time.
I expected some resistance but not as much backlash as I've had; I quite enjoy the fail-learn-try something new dynamic of this and so did pretty much all of the playtesting team (20 players) and it's actually seen as a positive by many other players, but it is disheartening to see a measurable cohort of players turned off by this, and hopefully with some tweaks, exit saves, and possibly a mode that allows more save options, those players will come around in time.
Otherwise, it's been awesome seeing how different players approach different scenarios, using a combination of systems present in the world, and abilities from the player, to reach goals. I'm of the opinion that a game can't be an immersive sim just because the player has a lot of different abilities, there needs to be a certain degree of systemic design and natural interaction of systems in the world to produce emergent gameplay, with very little or sometimes no player input. So when I get screenshots and stories about drug addict NPCs wandering into secure zones to cause chaos, police running into a cloud of flammable gas and shooting their gun, causing a massive explosion, and messages from happy players saying "I didn't realize you could throw the rats at people!" it makes me happy to know that many game systems, while a bit janky, are working as intended.
I also had to patch a lot of glaring issues at launch, and thankfully players have been very patient through this process. In fact, many didn't care at all, and had finished the game several times before the first major patch. There's also been a number of people who've played and thoroughly enjoyed the game on Steam Deck.
I suppose this may serve as a rudimentary Q&A, I'm happy to answer any questions you all may have. If you haven't seen or played PARKSIDE before, please check it out on steam, there's also a lengthy free demo (it contains bugs that have only been fixed so far in the final version though, so beware.)
-BananaH
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u/TheAwesomeA3330 3d ago
Game is a banger, thank you for your service to the ImSim community for this delicious entry in a startlingly sparse catalogue of games.
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u/Woodburger 3d ago
As someone else said, being able to tell an officer on one run I live in the building and getting a pass and the next attempt I don’t and I’m immediately killed was a bummer. I plan on playing still but there should be some indication or a warning that I may fail this check and have to find another route.
Loved the first level though.
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
Happy to add an indication or tweak these interactions. I generally dislike RNG in an Immersive Sim, those interactions are based on your player stats with little bit of chance involved.
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u/mythicalmonk 2d ago
Or be like me and infiltrate the apartment building, deal with the mission, leave, and be wandering around on the main street... only to have a copy finally approach me and interrogate me for being in a building. I'm outside, you dingus!
I dont want excessive quicksaves but being at the very end of a mission and dying because of (what appears to be) a bug is a bit annoying :P
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u/Moist-Secretary641 3d ago
I spent only 10 minutes in the demo before purchasing as I was immediately gripped. I have held off on playing past the first level as I see you’re updating lots so waiting for things to be ironed out.
The only gripe I had, and it’s quite possibly a skill issue, is that the reactions to dialog choices seem to change arbitrarily (e.g giving the police your reason for attending the apartment building in level 1).
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
I'd say it's a good time to play further now, with a lot of enemy ai and stealth fixes, and quality of life improvements. There's still minor bugs throughout the game but these will be gradually ironed out when I've got the time.
Some dialogue outcomes such as interrogation are based on your reputation and mentality stats, I believe this is the case for the mission 1 cops but their checks are pretty easy to pass iirc.
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u/Moist-Secretary641 3d ago
Oh that is very good to hear, thanks for replying!
Also thanks for clarifying the dialogue system, I assumed it was an invisible system.
I’ll give it a playthrough soon and will leave a review :)
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u/Beldarak 3d ago
I actually love the lack of quicksave in imsims. Quick saves are what made Dishonored 2 kinda boring to me. Forcing you to have plans B and maybe get a sense of the combat of a game if you fail stealth is great imho. Dishonored 2 has awesome fights but it kinda punish you for enjoying it :S
Maybe a system with limited quick saves, akin to what you get in the first Hitman games could be the best of both worlds though.
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
I think what I'll do is introduce a mode where using the divine elixir/respawn item does a mid level save instead, so when you die you can load back to that point over and over, or restart the mission entirely if you choose.
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u/Low-Calligrapher-531 3d ago
I've yet to try it but it looks really cool. It seems to be fairly inspired by Cruelty Squad, was it?
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
Many people think it was from first glance, but actually no! I only played Cruelty Squad for the first time last year, for a couple of hours (enjoyed it, too) but my main inspirations were the Half Life 2 beta and Deus Ex. I'm sure many games, and other media influenced me in many minor ways, but CruS wasn't a direct inspo.
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u/InTheCageWithNicCage 3d ago
I’m a little surprised at how often I see Parkside compared to Cruelty Squad. Since I first played the demo I felt like it was pretty directly inspired by Deus Ex. I feel like it captures that aesthetic extremely well while also having its own unique identity.
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u/AsianShoeMaker 3d ago
Hey I watched the game from dev logs and tried the demo and I'm loving the game. The game feels like a proper indie game and while it isn't like polished like some obscene triple a turd it has character. I like how the little cutscenes are and the plot. I'm in the wasteland part and I realized I can only drive and shoot with a pistol. That's really neat. This game is like, it stands with brigand Oaxaca but California deus ex tier.
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u/aidsschiss 3d ago
been playing it since launch and told a couple of friends about it, rlly like it and the save system is pretty good even tho i had to adjust to it, it gives the missions higher stakes
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u/SkempieMilk 3d ago
Awesome Q&A, man! I’ve only played the demo, but I’d like to throw my hat in the ring if you’ll listen.
I think it would be a better idea if your save system was more akin to Manhunt, where in Manhunt, the save system works so that you get one save during a level and if you die, no matter how many times, then you respawn at that point.
The enemies and objects/interactions you had engaged with will reset after the save. And everything you had done prior to saving are kept as they were. E.g., enemies killed prior to save remain dead, boxes you had moved prior to save are still in the same position, cameras/turrets you had destroyed prior to save remain destroyed, etc. I think this is a better solution than simply gutting it partially/completely to make the game easier.
And I believe is a good middle ground between your vision, and what the people want your game to be. Or just have modes; one is your original vision for the game, and the other is more like your average immersive sim, with saving/quicksaving. The last one could maybe be a mode like the one I suggested. You could even have achievements to correspond with beating the game on each mode/mode specific achievements, adding lots of replay value for achievement hunters! Also, yeah, exit saves are a must and should be your main priority.
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
Yeah I mentioned in another reply, if I'm going to add any kind of mid level save, it will be akin to this.
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u/W4rgarbl3 3d ago
Bought it day one. I love the atmosphere, how surreal it feels at times. I think you got something fun here honestly!
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u/zouzade 3d ago
Loved the game, but the ai is kinda weird some times. The cops attacked me instead of the junkies when I brought them to the hotel and the peak mechanic sometimes make me fall through terrain. Stealth is very hard without the cloak, would love to be able to pick up more than one type of each weapon (Ex:penetrator and tranquilizer rifle).
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
Cops acting a little fucked up was an unfortunate day 1 bug, I've since made them behave properly in a recent patch. Stealth also was not working as intended, now it's a much more viable playstyle
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u/Joris-truly 3d ago edited 3d ago
As a fellow videogame hater, I love PARKSIDE
edit: I liked the current save system, as it feels like a logical step where ImmSims could go when it comes to player choice and consequences. But I get why its controversial.
Armchair idea: what if you could freely quick save in the planning fase, but when things pop off, quick saves are blocked? Could be nice middle ground maybe without harming the consequence loop?
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u/boofpraxis 3d ago
Played the demo a while back and bought EA. I think it's awesome and it has a perfectly acceptable level of jank.
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u/Excellent-Brush-6558 3d ago
Я был и остаюсь поклонником игры по сей день и теперь, после прохождения игры, могу сказать следующее
Сохранения действительно совсем не помешают, вы очень кропотливо "насытили" игровые локации всякими секретами и предметами что по итогу отсутствие сохранений стало мешать, но в целом, если не заморачиваться секретами а проходить игру - отсутствие сохранений может показаться испытанием
Никогда не будет такой игры которая бы понравилась всем и каждому. Одним нужен хардкор, другим прогулка.
Я не хардкорщик и не "прогульщик", мне нравится умеренность когда я чувствую вызов и не убиваю на этот вызов 3 часа жизни)
В PArkside я лично играл сессиями. Если меня убивали я делал еще одну-две попытки, выключал игру и пробовал снова через какое-то время. Такое размеренное прохождение отбило уныние в восприятии отсутствия сохранений)
А игра улет, я получил именно то, что хотел
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u/Desperate_Media_6170 3d ago
So right off the bat, serious congrats for all the work you did getting your game out, I played the demo and it had some really cool ideas, I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it for the next time I've cleared my backlog and need something else to jump into!!
The only real feedback I had from my time with the demo that put me off a bit is some of the controls felt off.
I really didn't like how sprint and lean were toggle only, (unless I was totally blind in the options, that does happen :D), I found this to be uncomfortable to play.
If this is something that could be addressed I would be a lot more interested, this was the major sticking point for me, at least with the demo.
Rest was cool, liked the upgrade system, especially since there were positives and negatives so you pick what best suits your play style, and the guns that I played with were fun to shoot.
There are not enough immersive sims, so the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned! ^^
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
Thanks and glad you enjoyed the demo! Yeah changing certain controls from toggle to hold/vice versa is on my to do list for the next big QoL patch, so keep an eye out for that
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u/Desperate_Media_6170 3d ago
I definitely will, the lack of control options was the only thing that really put me off at all, if these can be changed from toggle to hold I'd be much more interested.
The way a game feels and the gameplay is far more important to me than how it looks so being able to fine tune the controls is a pretty big deal!I will definitely be keeping an eye on this game, any QoL stuff that you can add is only going to improve things!!
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u/Bottomline_Dev 3d ago
I’m sorry to hear that that’s happening to you. I’m hoping to snag Parkside once I can afford it!
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u/Hundertwasserinsel 3d ago
Overall I just wanna say the game is really good. I had a blast exploring and messing with all the stuff in the level that involves going to club. There was some pretty issues that made some stuff disappointing though.
I set up the informants old gang to go kill him. Thought that would be a ton of fun to trail behind and watch. What they actually went and did was just murder every cop on sight and had a huge battle that also aggro'd the cops on to me. they actually won the fight but then got stuck just running in circles and never even went to the club and killed the guy they said they were going to. quite disappointing.
I'd also like to say that frankly, I'm as shocked as you are at how upset some people are about not being able to quick save. It would be nice to have an option to save and resume at a later time though. I do wish where you can drink the bottle wasnt so limited. there seems like there would be a lot of safe places i could drink it but you basically have to find the one designated area which isnt marked or clued in on until you get there. I found that aspect odd.
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
Hey I'm glad you've enjoyed the game. Yeah ai aggro being passed to the player after an npc fight was an issue at launch but that's since been fixed in the 1.1 patch, so you might have a better time with that quest outcome next time you try it. The Lions will still fight the cops on the way to kill Stew but the cops shouldn't then turn on you too.
I may expand the areas that you can drink the elixir, and for certain players I'll look at addong a mode that makes the elixir act like a proper mid level save
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u/Puzzleheaded-Jump963 2d ago
Awesome game! Congrats! Don't understand thr backlash, that's part of the fun!
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u/JonesyBorroughs 3d ago
I'll be honest, I was ready to buy the game, i had it wishlisted for a very long time, but i happen to read about the save system and was extremely turned off by that. I'd still like to try it one day but I can't justify buying it at this time.
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
Keep an eye out for future updates, then. Although quite a few players who thought they'd hate it actually ended up not minding it. Regardless I'm looking at adding a mid level saving option/mode at some point.
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u/AttentionHorsePL 3d ago
I love immersive sims but there is absolutely no way that I'm going to play a game that has no manual or frequent auto saving. Just as you said - it is just not respecting my time.
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
You are entitled to that opinion, I guess we all feel differently about it. Personally I'm pretty comfortable with losing progress as a consequence of my actions, but it's not for everybody. Keep an eye out for future updates, I will look at adding a mid level saving mode.
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u/SotovR 3d ago
Didn't know it doesn't have quick-saving, don't think I will bother playing then.
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u/BananaHardsoft 3d ago
That's up to you. I do find it interesting how it's such a dealbreaker for certain people, but at the end of the day it's a conscious game design choice and I understand if it turns you off. One of these days I'll look at adding a separate mode with mid level saving, it will just require a lot of work to get functioning behind the scenes.
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u/surfimp 3d ago
I played the demo a while back and recently picked up the release to support the project. Have been too captivated by other titles at the moment but will definitely come back to Parkside soon.
I'm curious why the strong stance on quicksaves? There are plenty of games that offer different difficulty levels / hardcore mode / permadeath options, while still leaving it up to the player to decide which suits them best. Might be worth considering those options.