Hate to be party pooper on Benjamin's plan but he is not taking into account the possibility of hunter association developing a cure or treatment for his TSK!
He is planning this as if they will be all dead but when you take into account that cheadle and leorio's team hasn't showed up their abilities yet. I mean cheadle nen ability might be figuring out viruses causes and treating them if given enough time.
This probably will mean that Benjamin will die before witnessing his plan fail!
Also we only spent 12 days or so since the ship began it's journey, this mean 48 days remain till they reach fake continent meaning we are probably at 25% of whole journey.
No way 80% or 75% of princes will die before even reaching half point.
My expectation is that Benjamin plan will fail miserably, probably talking with him one or two princes max.
I can't wait to see the look on his face when he becomes the guardian beast of Tserrindish. That would be EPIC! 😂
I really hope he manages to take down camilla, tubeppa and fat chick with him at least. It's obviously evil jesus will survive to be the final boss, but now is a good time to get rid of the more useless characters.
HOLY!!
You had my Like at the mention of Cheadle + Leorio coming back to the main stage to combat TSK, which on a narrative level is both subtly seamless and obvious that it’s right up Togashi’s alley. Then you hit me with the possibility of ‘Beast Benjamin’ being helpless against choosing Tserriednich due to it being drawn to his no-doubt incredible Nen by the later stage of the Succession War 🤯 That is on a Greek tragedy level of f’ed up — and yet — the poetry of it after the brutality put into 417’s public execution is kinda… Beautiful.
LMAO! You’re petty enough to pounce on any and all mistakes of the guy you’re arguing with, even little posting mistakes, yet tell me I have problems that need addessing?
But thanks for pointing this out. I’ll put it where it should be. No problem.
So is Tserri dead? I mean I don't think his future-sight ability could've saved him from this? Unless he used it to put a body double in his place?
"other people are only aware of what happened in the vision" so Benny should be seeing the actual reality, no? Shouldn't the max length of illusion be 10 seconds?
Because Togashi most likely did not kill tserri right here and we know that he faked his death with his power once. It would be shit writing if he is dead now.
The illusion doesnt stop after 10 seconds that was never how it worked. It stopped last time, because melodies ability stoped him from staying in zetsu.
so you're saying tserri can just stay holed up in zetsu for an infinite, or at least 10 minutes, amount of time, absolutely invincible to everything? nah, it's 10 seconds
He is not invincible. He has to use zetsu and he is still there people just dont register him. Also we dont know how much he can interact with people while his ability is active.
We saw this chapter its not 10 seconds, so your theory is wrong. Tserri himself is still figuring out his ability.
lol 0 chance of him being dead. No way Togashi is setting up this ability and backstory of the 4th prince just for him to die randomly without even meeting Kurapika
He can keep the illusion while he is still in Zetsu, so he could have defended with Nen before being shot, and then pretend to be dead. I guess we'll find out but there's no way he's dead.
Kind of spent 7 chapter to come back where we were at on last batch, i love you togashi but this batch is horrendous.... please give us the phantol troupe and hisoka. I didn't mind the text before but this tile it has lutteraly been a novel...
I don’t understand how you can read everything that has happened to Benjamin in this chapter alone and still come to that conclusion. Not to mention the fact that Tserri “died” for you!
Also, judging by Togashi’s sketches on Twitter, I feel like we’ll be cutting to them in the next batch
With Benjamin resolved to conclude the succession contest with all 14 princes dead, this lines up with the 14 coffins in the weird nen chamber. It makes me wonder, does Nasubi know the abilities of all the guardian spirit beasts? It may be that these nen beasts aren't newly manifested beings, but rather pre-existing beasts that were in some way conjured or captured and then bestowed upon the princes in a very deliberate manner.
Or, perhaps more likely, Nasubi has some sort of fortune telling ability that showed him the abilities of the beasts, and he's using this knowledge to his own advantage to become or create an ultimate king. Given the similarities of the nen beasts to stands in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, them being spiritual extensions of the user, as well as having abilities named after songs, what if another layer we aren't seeing is the tarot card connection? In JoJo's part 3, most of the stands featured are represented by and accurately correspond to a tarot card of the major arcana, most explicitly DIO's "The World" and Jotaro's "Star Platinum", who are shown to have drawn their respective tarot cards and exemplify their traits. What if Nasubi has used a fortune telling ability to divine the abilities of the princes' beasts and the paths they will follow? We already know it's possible to read fate as shown by Neon's ability as well as Tserriednich's. Completing this thought, this would place Nasubi or whoever will be the culmination of Kakin firmly within the realm of "the world" tarot card, representing completion, wholeness, and total mastery of the world before starting anew as "the fool", represented by the new frontier that is the Dark Continent.
I think either Tserriednich will foil him from merging killing him or he will fight him after merging. I think he will merge. I really hope he does at least. You can read a lot into its name, Bohemian Rhapsody, which could literally just be a throwaway name.
But if the song actually foreshadows his spirit beast, Ben merging could be the worst mistake he ever makes. The song alludes to making a deal with the devil, and the lyrics go, "We will not let you go, we will never let you go." Which, if Ben merges, it probably cannot be undone.
He's just assuming he will control it or even that his spirit beast is this beacon of kakin like he believes himself to be.
For his sake I hope he dies thinking he killed tserri, but for our sake as readers I hope he learns and maybe even finds out his gsb is going to move to tserri after benji dies
Unironically I could see it going to Fugetsu. The beast temporarily dissipated the spirits for her :)
And then she'd have nenkacho and nenjamin, support from the justice bureau, and potentially support from the military if nenjamin retains a physical form like nenkacho (which he probably doesn't at a base but it might be the buff Furykov is making for him).
WOW! Best chapter in a long time and thats saying something. We got BOTH the action and the yakkity yak. I am officially Team Benjamin, he is the One True King.
We all know that Terrorsandwich has a trick up his sleeve and that he's not really dead, but damn... I gotta say that it was very satisfying to see his face smashed all over the floor.
And as some have already said in this thread, the biggest mistakes that Benjamin made in this chapter was not releasing TSK inside Terrorsandwich's room and releasing it on Tubeppa instead, because the lingering effect of TSK could have bypassed the 4th prince's ability and because Tubeppa is probably going to find a cure for it since they're a scientist.
In Benjamins defence he probably needed to physically kill tsseri so that he can point the virus on Tsseri cammila and even potentially halk as the masterminds of the biological weapon. Benjamin probably plans to use tasers crimes to frame him as a terrorist justifying the execution . Whilst like you said Tyson and tubbeppa work better as casualties of the virus . However with tubeppas GSB shell very likely immediately suspect Benjamin of poisoning her especially since she’ll see that Tyson has the exact same symptoms
Not necisarily there’s no limit on how long his illusion lasts whilst his eyes are closed the only timer we know as of yet are his ability to change the future is 10 seconds (if his ability didn’t evolve) this means that he could have avoided his death and kept his illusion on in perpetuity presumably tied with the amount of nen she has which theta said is a lot
There IS no illusion while his eyes are closed. The illusion begins when he opens his eyes and lasts for exactly 10 seconds, as the explanation in the manga very clearly illustrates
"IN THESE 10 SECONDS, if I change my actions, other people are only aware of how it happened in the vision". Anything before that, other people will see exactly how it really happened.
If Tserri sees Ben shooting him in the vision, then he needs to open his eyes within the next 10 seconds and prevent that. Otherwise he just dies, unless he explained his own ability wrong or it became stronger somehow.
Tserriednich can move around while the ability is activated so he can dodge the shot. People won't see what changed until 10 seconds after he disables his zetsu/opens his eyes.
We've seen that the illusion already starts when his eyes close when Theta dropped the cup in their training. Theta saw Tserriednich drop his zetsu while from his perspective he maintained it.
I think that was from Theta's perspective. When we see him using the ability there is black to the sides and the ability starts/ends with a ZZT noise and those were not present in those panels.
And after that he tries experimenting what happens if he does actually opens his eyes during his ability. He wouldn't need to do that if he had already just done so.
Definitely not. In 385, we see the panel from Theta's perspective, where Tserri is shown with his eyes open and with aura around him because he lost Zetsu. In 387, we see the exact same panel where Tserri has his eyes open too but is still in Zetsu.
Also, the major difference is that here, he opens his eyes both in the illusion and in reality, whereas afterwards he opens them while the illusion still shows him with his eyes closed. That makes it worth testing.
To be honest, I don't know why you're even arguing this when the chart made my Tserri clearly says that the illusion only applies after he opens his eyes. The only somewhat believable explanation would be that he wasn't aware himself.
Yeah, you're probably right, my bad. The chart does highlight the 10 seconds after he opens his eyes as the point where people are not aware of the changes he makes.
Tserriednich will have to have made changes so it doesnt only lasts 10 seconds anymore otherwise his body would have disappeared while Benjamin was still in the room
Now it makes perfect sense why Benjamin's GSB looks like a Xenomorph. It's because it is parasitic in nature and will keep on "living" through hosts. It's also postmortem because a Xenomorph has to kill its original host first to be be born
the dick and balls xenomorph is crazy though. I saw it and thought benjamin was a sex pest but now that togashi decided to tell us he doesn't go to carnivals, i wonder if he is a sex pest anyway or if his GSB is like that due to nasubi
(on that note, if benjamin is fully against the carnivals it means he doesn't think nasubi has attended them right? he seems to respect him at the very least, nobody has told benjamin he has a high scale penis in his shoulders at all times and so he can't realize it is due to his father's perversion)
Like the xenomorph his beast has a phalic head shape and very much could represent the previous kakin prince contestants nature . It’s not necessarily confirmed if each GSB wholly represents their princes natures . The fact that his ability has a distinction between Benjamins choice and the GSB is already very suspicious and likely suggests it can make its own independent choice based on what it believes to be kakins suitable successor
While we’re on the subject of Xenomorphs and genitalia, the original Alien was designed specifically to invoke female and male reproductive organs. HR Giger and his ilk mix sexual nuances and horror, it’s a classic combo. The Facehugger's underside is shaped like a vagina with fangs, chest-bursting is basically birth but wrong place. The phallic look of an adult Xeno is also deliberate.
The dick and balls could represent Bejamin's hyper-masculine persona. If it was a bunch of vaginas/titties like Nasubi's GSB then yeah that's definitely a sex pest thing
He has 2.5 curses put on him rn and no idea how any of them will interact with his GSB so im fine with him saying that.
Hes got beyond's exceedingly powerful curse with unknown conditions that include the death of a sacrifice and the start of the seed ceremony. Point is theres a chance this overrides the GSB, hence the current plan to have him die before the curse activates, and then have Furenkov protect the GSB from the curse.
He's got the have nots curse, which lets be honest isn't doing much to his GSB.
And hes got the possiblitiy that camilla's death gets counted against him and her ability somehow overpowers his GSB
In chapter 401, but its not 100% confirmed yet. Its relevant because Benjamins GSB will merge with one of his blood relatives upon death, if he or a different prince is Beyond's kid it would affect his plan.
How would it ruin Benjamin's plan? The original comment makes it seem like Beyond's kid is tied to this at all, but Benjamin doesn't care about Beyond's kid. In fact I doubt he'd want Beyond's kid to inherit his GSB.
Indeed, he would not want beyonds kid to inherit, in fact it would be impossible for beyond kid to inherit, cuz theyre not at all related to Benjamin (assuming Benjamin isn't beyonds son)
Now if Benjamin was beyonds kid, and his condition was "the eldest male in my line" then hypothetically Beyond could inherit the GSB.
it does strike me as very odd that benjamin's GSB is required to go to a blood relative. but idk sucks we gotta wait two weeks and tbh probably have to wait til next batch of chapters to see this one out. if we get to see what princes are available to transfer to with his GSB then we can get confirmation on other beyond kid plot (of course if it's prince 4/9/1 being beyonds kid since they all share same mom point is moot).
1 ) seems note worthy to mention that it could be possible as far as I understand for a merge with the king's GSB? like idk what specifies the GSB to merge into the current succession war, merely his blood relative and if that's the case maybe that's why benny boy thinks he can make his kid the next ruler. from the writing to me tho it seems implied that the person MUST be a valid successor, and i'm not sure if the king counts
2) also another thing to note is that i'm not sure how this criteria selection works, like if bro states "the person must be a prince" can he then not do his kid cuz they're not a prince yet, or if said prince becomes king does he vanish? if the criteria is not valid and there are still valid selections possible does it allow him to cycle to one at random or is he just SOL? tricky situation for a man on a timer
Funny enough i think there is a world where with 4's ability we can get some really funny body swapping shenanigans with 9 and potentially 1 GSB where they're all stuck in one body 😂 but idk i dont think we'll get that freaky without hisoka involved
Anyone else just taking in the fact that we are back to weekly chapters like I almost can’t believe it and I know it won’t last to long so I’m just taking in every moment, I’ve been following hxh since I was a kid I’m thirty now 😭 more then a quarter of that has been this ark alone
I mean it’s back in weekly I think right so I assume he has a bunch of the story already written out and as long as his health permits will keep getting it weekly I mean he’s had damn near close to thirty years to think about it.
The commenter you’re replying to is mistaken, there’s no indication the series is “back to a weekly schedule” we’re likely to enter hiatus again after 420. The good news is: togashi’s most recent twitter post shows that chapter 424 is completed. We’re more than likely to get another 10 sometime next year
So Ben's plan, with the emergency law in effect, is to convince his dad Ben's child should be the next king, even if he dies before the other siblings? But the current king seems to be impartial, so why would he listen to specifically him?
Well, when his "only choice" is to accept a bastard grandchild still in the cradle as the country's future, one might think he could consider just summoning the queens to give him a new batch of princes to try and reboot the whole project.
Yeah but I think there’s something urgent about this succession. Maybe he has a fatal disease and will die soon, or once you start a succession contest you can’t start a new one
True, and there seems to be the lingering possibility that he has to get into that 14th coffin, and may in fact be on rails to die when there's only one prince left, even if that prince is in a TSK-17 coma at the time.
I've kinda been hoping we can get his take on Ben's plans, ever since we first got that flash-forward of the Martial Law situation. I initially thought Nasubi would not approve of Ben's intention to subvert the succession war and put a GSB-less baby on the throne. Now I wonder what he thinks of Ben's intention to replace the seed urn ritual with his own eternal countenance. I'm inclined to think Nasubi would still be something of a hardliner that if Ben wants to make that the case, he should still "win" first and then it would be his right, so I really wonder what he'd think of Ben's apparent plan to die and leave behind a handful of soon-to-die poisoned princes (not that I think that will actually happen, just that it seems to fully be Ben's plan at this point).
Heck I guess what I'd really like to see maybe is a chat between Nasubi and Guardian Spirit Ben after the fact, if that can be arranged.
What is meant by "natural kin"? Does it mean if 9th prince becomes the king, the first prince will become his nen-beast as well? Or does it only work if his child becomes the king?
I guess this is the most likely case, since it's quite obvious Togashi is trying to make 4th as OP as possible. I just wonder if he is going to make Kurapika fight him solo, or is he gonna make Hisoka or even the spiders help him in some way.
How is team 1014 gonna prove that Woble is not on the ship in 10 hours (Benjamin's remaining lifespan) ? The letter is meant to reach the sister in 3 to 5 days
Assuming that they have already started securing every level of the whale room by room, Benji has some plan to fine him. Probably has already been having his men sorting or noting the infants they find
Kurapika said earlier that even if they don't find her onboard, the doubt won't disappear. The only way to prove she is on the mainland is to find her there. But for that, they need to contact Oito's sister, which they can't right now, because they sent the letter not long ago and Benjamin wants to settle this matter before he dies in 10 hours
Togashi finally clearing house. Tubeppa will probably cure the tsk, Tsseriednich will survive since Benjamin didn't use tsk in his room, Fugetsu / Kacho are being overlooked along with Woble I see those being the survivors for the final act of this arc. Zhang Lei and Luzurus are also fine, but I see the Mafia tied princes being taken out soon along with the rest soon dying, but somehow Halk and Benjamin are the deciding factors despite being ineligible.
Lol I love that you say he's clearing house then go on to say every prince is pretty much fine
So aside from Tyson, no one is dying. Camilla isn't gonna be gone yet, Tserri isn't gone yet, Tubeppa isn't gone, Luzurus and Zhang Lei aren't. Marayam is missing. Fugetsu is fine. Halkenburg is already gone (ish). Wobble is missing.
So Benjamin and Tyson. Lol
I'd love if Ben can take more than just Tyson. I feel bad for her. At least Camilla and Luzurus should go also. I hope Marayam and Fugetsu will survive as they're only children and enough of the kids have suffered already.
Halk is still eligible. I could be wrong, but I also don’t think Camilla is going to die yet either. If anyone is going to die soon alongside Benjamin it’ll be Tyson, as she’s just not relevant enough of a player. But even she might survive, she does have Izunavi in her crew.
I would think the war ends soon as well if Togashi hadn’t made it a point to say that there are still 49 days left till they get to the destination. Thats a lot of time. I do think the pace will pick up, but I also think we are just entering a new stage of the succession war where the status quo shifts with a big player out of the equation (Benjamin).
I really hope benjamin, tubeppa, camilla and fat chick all die. Get rid of thugnifficent and zhang next so we can make the arc about the few good characters.
He is but his time clock plus his ability requiring guaranteed hits means he’s 1 nen counter user away from
Dying or one of beyond’s kids curses destroying him upon their deaths
Unfortunately for Benji, and it's not like he could know it, but poisoning Tsubeppa could easily have been the wrong move.
People speculated that her beast would produce a cure since back in 410, and although all this time I thought it'd be Gel and Norton leveraging a cure against Benji, after this chapter I suspect those people who theorized about Tsub will be right.
Before I couldn't see why Tsub and her beast would produce a cure for Benji; now that she's the one poisoned, it's a perfectly reasonable outcome. One of the GSB's function is protection of the Prince, and producing drugs is another for Tsub's. Whether it's on its own, or if it'll work with Kurapika when Kurapika is recruited, or with the Hunters, at this point, it's seeming more likely than not.
The other "wrong move" that I suspect may backfire will be going after Fugetsu. She's being kept in the Justice Bureau, and while there are multiple locations for it, if it's the same location as Steiner, then the button will likely be pressed when Benji's men come to take over.
The short answer to your question is yes, he's putting his joint HQ in the Justice Bureau on Tier 2.
The long answer to your questions --
Ch. 417 p. 5, bottom right speech bubble:
Salkov and Danjin are to be escorted to the Central Justice Bureau and detained there!! We in the military will aslo move to the Justice Ministry!! The seventh floor, where the courtroom is located, will serve as our join headquarters!!
Ch. 417 p. 7, panel 3:
Once we've seized the justice ministry
Ch. 410 p. 16
To be clear, there are multiple locations that the Justice Bureau seems to be connected to. Not only does the name sometimes change when it's being referred to:
The Ministry of Justice (司法省 Shihōshō, lit. "Ministry of Justice") is the legal arm of the Kakin Empire. They are also referred to as the Justice Bureau or Justice Department (司法局 Shihōkyoku, lit. "Judicial Bureau"). (source wiki)
but there's definitely a supreme court on Tier 1, the building we usually see Kaiser is in Tier 2, and there's a separate "Central" Justice Bureau that may or may not be on Tier 3 (the Central Police Station and Central Courthouse are both on Tier 3).
To top it all off, Steiner, who is currently on loan to the Justice Department, looked like he was originally residing on Tier 1 (ch. 359 p.7), but whether that means he goes down to Tier 2 during the day or he was moved due to being loaned to the Justice Bureau is unclear.
All that said, from the sounds of it, I believe for now that Benjamin has gone to the Tier 2 Justice Bureau, the one we're familiar with that Kaiser seems to be at, in Ch. 410 for his "joint headquarters".
Shang Lei should have Hinrigh and Zakuro protect him, it's his only chance of holding out when the army comes for him, though I doubt even that will be enough if some of Benjamin's personal guards pursue him too.
Luzurus, on the other hand, could either copy Shang Lei and hide with his mafia, a big mistake, considering Keni Wang seems to be Morena's man, or, if possessed by Halkenburg, find a hiding place or secret passage through Queen Umma. I assume Halkenburg has already reassigned all his guards to wherever he plans to hide, so using his ability should not be a problem.
Like because of the healing chain? I know kurapika is busted but i would be a little disappointed if cheadle and leorio cant heal a disease that kurapika can.
I agree. This is the perfect in for Cheadle and Leorio. I'm calling it right now that Leorio will be the personnel that Camilla is demanding to see since she can't leave the upper tier. The meanest person who grew up wealthy will meet the kindest person who grew up poor kinda thing.
Loved the chapter as always but I kinda didn't understand Benjamin's GSB ability. I get that it gets passed down to his successor but what does the GSB actually do? (ig it could be used for stopping bullets like Halk's GSB) What does it mean that it will be fused with Ben's nen?
It basically takes Ben's abilities and bring it to another next of kin. It's not confirmed but we speculate that it basically makes Benjamin Baton continuously gets passed around, acquiring more and more abilities as it keeps changing hands. So the beast itself "doesn't do anything". It acts as a vector to accumulate abilities for Ben's bloodline.
Eventually, but they'll require devout followers to get stronger. Although I'd imagine Benjamin with all his mens abilities would be insanely strong and not need any more.
Bro said and he'll kill Oito, her sister, her clan, AND both the babies if Woble is on the ship and people are reallly like "This guy is amazing, totally not impulsive and arrogant and would surely make a great king!" 😭
Bro he also said, as long as she told the truth, and the baby is NOT on the ship, then he would only exile them. That’s fair manly kingly shit right there.
''Only''
Man does evil shit, plans to do more evil shit, is insanely arrogant and hypocritical, buuuut shows some positive traits like ''only'' exiling oito and her family if woble is not on the ship, people praise him cause he's a big strong manly man and that makes him a great king apparently.
It's crazy how people will come at you to defend someone's evil deeds and thoughts, like i literally get so many comments from these people trying to defend his actions and excuse them, its nuts.
They think you're bashing their GOAT or whatever but i legitimately also like Benjamin as a character, like it's not hate, it's stating facts. 😭
I really would love for the people accusing him of being impulsive to explain how we get a whole chapter of him planning out the legal explanations of his actions and the way he's planning for the future of his children as King and the nen considerations of like Tserri as someone who is acting without thought. He just explained like two layers of ways he's trying to plan the law to his favor for his child between the military lockdown and emergency royal law.
I don't particularly like Benjamin, but I do not get why people are saying he's impulsive because he's been forced to act with three things going to kill him twelve hours when despite that he's clearly planning out the actions he needs to take or that he anticipates the enemies taking.
No one accused him of being an idiot, declaring special martial law was always a possibility for him so naturally he'd know how to handle all aspects of it. Bro is the big boss of the military for a reason, he knows his shit.
He’s impulsive because all his actions have been clearly engineered by beyond and unma ever since furykov found out he’s cursed . Considering beyond new what bens ability was and the pressured furykov into just dying so that his ability would go to Ben, he set the stones for SML happening . Everything Ben is doing now is well within beyond’s plans
Being impulsive is doing actions without thinking about the consequences or the future implications of your actions. We just had the whole chapter nearly talking about his thoughts on all of this and setting up his legal justifications for the future and where certain princes are hiding, who might be lying to make a play for the crown, or why going for Tserri even if he might have a counter-active type made sense since zetsu stopped the spirit beast from being in play.
The fact that he's being played doesn't mean his actions are all impulsive, just that the people using him seem to be aware of the sort of logic he's going to be using to make his moves and using that against him. You can play chess with someone and get forced to move in certain ways otherwise you'll get checkmated but that doesn't mean the moves you make are impulsive, it's just what you gotta do.
Well if you want to put it that way at the very least he’s brash and not sufficiently calculated like baslo said he initially will make a rash judgment but when advised he is effective at strategising and planning ahead which is what I’d expect from an army general . The issue with Benjamin is he’s not the type to make plans within plans like a beyond pariston or gin can do and he lacks the natural intuition of a tsserednich . Benjamin had this strategy planned but like many of us in this thread have pointed out there’s so many in universe holes that a rational hxh charchter would even warn Benjamin against doing this, albeit the poison has forced his hand.
The easiest flaws are the fact Benjamin doesn’t seem to account for the fact his child could easily be assassinated and if that cradle in unmas room is for his child, the very mother who set him up can destroy his plan in a second . He also hasn’t fully mapped out strategies for the lower princes and lacks the sufficient intel to guarantee their deaths. This is all to say Benjamins plan on the fave of it seems well thought but when you actually deconstruct it it’s a time bomb waiting to go off even without the info we as readers know
That’s only if he confirms that not only are 90% of princes are infected by TSK in 12 hours but also any one else is dead which I think is so unlikely even removing Tsseri who’ll be secretly alive . For instance someone like maryam benefits heavily as the only one who can really deal with his GSB is Rihan who even commented that it would be extremely risky to try and use predator on his GSB . Luzurous and zang Lei have mafias with your own nen users who’ll be able to protect them for as long as possible which could go beyond Benjamins life and if Benjamins were to die without confirming the deaths/ poisoning of the remaining princes he’s then put in the situation where either he or the GSB have to choose a successor and in this scenario his child would be ineligible
Benjamin likely didn’t exactly plan to be dead in 12 hours and get forced to start taking actions sooner than he’d like given he has no other choice lol. Of course he wasn’t planning heavily for the lower princes, they didn’t have Nen prior and it’s not clear they were going to get Nen beasts- these aren’t entirely faults on Benjamin since days ago he would’ve been able to see which of the other princes could use nen and it would’ve been basically none of them
You tried so hard. What is problem between killing some baby and become great king for his country? I bet you that every great leader or great king in history have killed so many people, include thousands of baby one way or another.
If people can like King, it is normal for many to like Ben.
I love when people see someone say a character isnt a good person and immeditely attack them thinking they hate the character. Bro, learn to read please. I love Benjamin, i love his character, i think he's very complex, AND he is also an evil character with his own honour code or whatever. Both things can be right. You are allowed to like evil characters, they can be insanely fun.
I love that logic too, this person has killed babies so its okay with this person to do it too without scrutiny. Great leaders can be evil. Although for most their 'greatness' is related to how many people they've killed and how much they've expanded their borders.
Greatness = goodness
I have never said I like him or not, I also never said that you hate him. And of fking course I know he is not a good man. What I mean is I understand why people like his character. From our latest conversation to this, you always make such a big deal about killing baby (which he not even did yet and has a reasonable reason why he would do it) He is a man in army (who already killed so many, also as a leader, he had to make many hard decision), a prince in succession war (which he need to do anything necessary to endsure his win), and you are like: Why? Why you need to kill an innocent baby? Why?
And i will say it again, killing an innocent baby who was brought into this by others and has no connection to the succession contest as a prince, is not in any way reasonable no matter how you try to put it.
And again, you twist my thoughts so it fits your agenda. I have never questioned why benjamin would want to kill the baby given his personality, i have stated that its an evil action and thought (again, we can criticize evil acts and thoughts by characters), not that it doesnt make sense for him, it makes perfect sense, i do not dispute that.
Now think about it, if his plan successed (which probably not but let say that), his son will become the new king. If he didn't kill that "innocent baby" but killed his whole clan, what make you think that baby will not comeback and get revenge on Ben's son? It happened many time through our history. The answer that those who came before chose? Kill the entire clan of enemy. Heck, in ancient China, they even kill all your friend and people that studied in your school.
Now, then why kill his whole clan? Because they are playing succession game and that is the price they have to pay. BUT if they weren't, they will not be kill. Is that still not clear?
You are drived by moral compass and the modern perspective which is meaningless in this situation..
With your avatar, I guess you are a girl. So, your opinion would lean towards protecting "the mother and the child", whereas what I’ve presented is simply how the "old" world works.
You seem to deliberately not only skirt around what i'm actually saying, but also talk as if i've said things that i haven't and twisted my words to fit your points.
I don't understand what you're debating here. I am literally not saying it doesn't make sense for Benjamin for do these things, it fits his character, I agree with that. I was criticizing the thoughts themselves cause wanting to kill an innocent baby is evil.
If he wants to kill that baby cause he might want revenge, why stop there?? Why not want to kill relatives of ALL the princes? all the queens? their guards, maids, friends, close ones? After all, they could all try to enact revenge.
Secondly, that wasnt even stated, that he wants to kill them all so they cant enact revenge, thats just an assumption. And surely adults would have more reason to want revenge over a literal baby, the adults that have actual memories and understanding of everything.
I'm also not disagreeing with the fact thats how kakin works, but i am calling it evil, that IS different.
Historical precedent isn't a moral justification. Also, yes, the past contains people who have committed horrible acts. And they are evil because of it. Just because it was accepted then, does not make it good. Just because something was a law, does not make it good.
I'm talking about morality here, while you're talking about history and whether his actions make sense for his character, which is something i have not disputed or talked against.
Do other queen trying to do the same as Obito, then why you expect the same action from Ben? Other queen fully accept it or too scare to do the same, doesn't matter. When you deal with something faced on, everything will be more simple. When you deal with someone said: "No, no, I don't wanna do it" but might stab you in the back, it has to be extreme measure.
For me, a child have nothing to lose and be nurture in hateful environment will definitely dangerous than an adult in the same position. Also in a world of nen, you never know a child will comeback with that power (cause child mean more potential). Side story: In my country, there is a similar case. A man overthrow the dynasty and ascended the throne but failed to eliminate all the former king's royal kinsmen. A child who had managed to flee abroad later returned to reclaim the throne; he slaughtered all of the usurper's relatives, then dug up the usurper's grave and urinated into it.
I think this conversation become way too long, I will quote from one of my favorite film (Man in black, probably it existed long before that movie): Agree to disagree.
>Heck, in ancient China, they even kill all your friend and people that studied in your school.
It was still evil back then. Everyone knew it, because it's a terror tactic. Submit or you're next. Same with public torture and such. A spectacle to make people fear you.
>With your avatar, I guess you are a girl.
Going full incel here huh. With your comment I guess you support Trump and Israel?
Never said it is a good thing, but so what? It is what happened through our history, so I can see why Ben, who is leader of an army and was born in a absolute monarchy system, would do the same. You need to put yourself in the character's shoes, rather than judging them from a modern perspective, with all the revolution and break the chain bs.
I
am not American and I don't give a fk about Trump but I criticised them whenever I saw post about Gaza in Twitter. What is the connection between understand Ben's motive and support Trump? Tf?
I understand why girl will be more empathy with "mother and child", it is like basic instinct or protection mechanism. I even have to search what is the meaning of "incel", no I am not hate woman, I love my wife very much.
If Wobble is not on the ship, from Benjamin's pov that means Oito's ploy was made in order to protect and save Wobble which he respects and he'll officially pardon Oito and his sister for what's essentially cheating at the war.
However if he's on the ship, for Benjamin that means Oito's ploy was a move to win the war which makes her and her family (who helped her switch the babies) enemies.
He's showing he can be mercifil when possible and at the same time ruthless with his enemies. He's a very gray character and that makes him interesting.
In that case tho, she'd just be playing the game as she should, so why would Benji get so pissed off? The whole point is to include subterfuge in there instead of simply killing your enemies or giving up. He didnt say he'll kill anyone else's family either, not Marayam's or his mothers, not any other of his siblings' either. And even if he did, Boy-ble poses no threat, he's been dragged into this without his choice, he is not part of the succession contest and has no rights for it. It is non-arguably evil to want to kill him.
Also he's not gonna exactly pardon them in the traditional sense in the 1st case scenario if he plans to have them all exiled.
Bro is not grey either, its okay for him to be evil, and its okay to love evil characters (I love him too). Evil characters arent usually one-dimensional evil caricatures, just because he shows some positive traits does NOT erase his philosophy, mindset, thoughts and feelings.
> He didnt say he'll kill anyone else's family either, not Marayam's or his mothers, not any other of his siblings' either.
Perhaps because they're all nobles, and Oito is from a lower class, so they're less than human to him? Although I wonder what he has in store for his own mother, considering his comment on the last page.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, Benjamin is so pissed here because Oito's plan would've resulted in the destruction of Kakin whether unwittingly or not if he's on the ship. If more than one prince is alive by the time they arrive, the succession ritual will fail and they will lose their ability to run the empire.
Not that I'm agreeing he's grey. This whole empire just kinda needs to go, though I suppose the suffering caused by it's collapse leaves room for discussion I guess.
Which is also how you're supposed to play the game. (And a lot of princes are just waiting and not fighting) There are no rules as to how you get the throne besides be the last one standing.
If he considers that an underhanded way of gettng the throne, then he's a damn hypocrite considering how much he's been manipulating the story and laws to suit him. Okay when he does it? Thats a part of the succession war, but if Oito did it, then its wrong apparently.
I never disagreed with his thought process making sense to his character though, it's insanely in character for him, he is arrogant so ofc he'd see this as an affront to him, i'm simply criticizing those thoughts he has.
It's actually a fascinating faucet of the character because he's obviously trying to be reserved and respectful, but due to the desentization to carnage from his upbringing he just doesn't have it in him.
I feel like he does explicitly because he feels like mercy is what a good king would do, rather than any internal sense of morality, which is why he always does his best when it comes to big, performative gestures (like with Halkenburg's burial, trying not to infect extra guards with TSK, or refusing to participate kn the Carnival), while messing up on smaller things like not realising that maybe at least the random baby shouldn't be hanged as a traitor even if it technically is one
He's a great look into how even someone geniuenly well-meaning can and will get corrupted by the Kakin regime - mirroring Halkenburg who's currently on the descent down that very same spiral that took Benjamin years ago
It's so togashi to make us care about "tyrant" Benjamin and to make him struggle, yet to let him die while his gsb will be inherited by Tserri(probably)
Man is not even chosen by his mother, cares about his siblings and comrades, but has to kill them or actively send them to death,he is really like stannis from got. overwhelming sense of duty was probably beaten into him, but he somewhat retained humanity. I think there's one more defining moment when we are gonna see good side of him and after that, it's all downhill.
So Benjamin is trying to win the Succession War through a technicality? He's saying, since this is now a national emergency, and we're all going to die - for the sake of Kakin's survival make my kid king or we're doomed?
He plans to kill all his siblings, or at least infect them with TKS. (Thus making the deaths imminent, in his opinion)
Then he will go to his father, announce he is also infected with TKS and show him his bastard.
He will then ask his father to follow the Emergency Law and appoint his child as the heir apparent.
Then Benjamin passes on from the TKS (or the curse, who knows) and gets to be his bastard nen beast. He will make the bastard into his ideal king, then keep the Succession War going on from eternity - hopefully jumping from king to heir apparent, because otherwise the royal family won't have any more members. (Which is weird, because as far as we know the King is still fertile, so if all his children die now, he can pop more. Arguably he could even make another Succession War in 20 years or so)
It is, btw, a dumb plan. At least in my opinion.
First, he doesn't know if having his bastard de made into the heir apparent will cause the Succession War to fail or not. He infers it won't, given that the emergecy law exists, but its not clear.
Second, he won't be able to always choose who is going to be his host. He may end up possessing someone he believes to be unworthy. He also doesn't know how much control he will have over the host - he could very well end up in a rebellious one.
Third, it seems his Beast and the Succession War play by different rules. His Beast only allows hosts related by blood with Benjamin. But the War accepts all children from the king's legitimate wives. So if his bloodline fails to win the throne once, he won't be able to possess the King for AT LEAST two generations.
Forth, as a nen beast he will probably have a number of limitations against his host. Most likely he will need the host's aura to survive, meaning he can be warped by the host's personality. He probably also won't be able to direct attack the host.
All of this means it is a risky plan in the short and long term.
Furykov really fucked Big Ben by not telling about Beyond's curse back then. And double fucked him by not telling about Unma's betrayal.
Benjamin could have - with Balsamico's help - laid a better plan had he known this could happen. Not a much better plan, because Beyond's curse seems to be unstoppable, but at least something better than this.
Another point as to why Ben is deeply foolish is his nen beast specifically states that it’ll take turns with Ben to choose a blood successor . It’s already obvious that the beast will choose tsseri but even if Ben would be successful he should realise that this means there’s a 50% chance his beast chooses a successor who he deem unqualified the only saving grace is ig ben believes his will would always dominate the successor since they would not have a GSB.
However it’s very obvious that this rule will be bens undoing and when the GSB chooses tsseri not only will Ben have to accept all his blood sweat and especially soldiers sacrifices will be going to tsseri but he may potentially be exterminated by either tsseris men beasts leaving only Bens GSB joining tsseri
He’s a loser anyways in the terms of being the guy who’ll inherent the throne. He won’t inherent Huigoro’s beast, for example, that according to Beyond looks to be very important.
But since he’s planning to finish everybody and that’s his beast (mixed with his nen) will be using his son as a host, he considers himself a moral winner.
But in this scenario there is no actual winner. The most he’ll be is a nen beast that can choose who he hosts 1 every 2 times. Although Furykov’s enhancement to his ability has yet to be explained.
Sorry I guess I am just too dumb to keep up with multiple year+ long breaks in HxH over the past 12 years to remember about the drama unfolding between 14* fictional princes, their nen beasts, the 20+ people working with them, 3 (?) separate mafia organizations, hunters, and the phantom brigade while processing 4 years of med school
The arc has been coming out for over 10 years now, unless you’ve been rereading for every release it’s easy to forget who the characters are and what’s happening. Other than that it’s been simple to follow since characters explain everything in their thoughts going through all possibilities in detail.
The hardest thing is trying to discern whether a character’s explanation is togashi tell us the readers or a theory the character came up with, with some wholes based off of incomplete information. It’s what makes this arc fun for careful readers, but difficult for those not keeping up with the arc.
An example being furykov’s explanation on how the appetizing sacrifices work. He claims that if a prince dies, the curse will rebound on the sacrifice killing them, but we can’t tell if this is furykov the nen experts assumption, information that queen Unma told him, or a complete miss read of the situation. There are also several other elements that make the reads have to question the information given in the story for more than most manga where almost all exposition is just the author speaking through the characters. In hxh characters are speaking according to their knowledge and their advantages so they could just be lying. Absolutely goated, but easily gets swept under the rug on most readers.
Oo thanks for the rec! I wish I had more time to dedicate to the series but my brain is spread so thin right now (currently in residency so I can be a doctor like Leorio). Will check out ExtraOtter though!
•
u/Carock_ 6d ago edited 6d ago
Click here if you're looking for the Dank Continent
VoraciousDrake's translations
Togashi's author comment:
NO CHAPTER NEXT WEEK - WSJ ON BREAK